[TigerMandingo]

Went out with a girl the other nite. Everything supposedly went great, she even texted me that she had a great time. I went for the bang but we only ended up making out before I headed home. Then as we texted back and forth later i made a joke saying "you certainly know how to leave a man with blue balls". I regretted the text as soon as I sent it and it was a stupid joke but I thought..oh well whatever. Can't be that bad. Then there was radio silence for an entire day after that text. I asked her if we were still on for our next date and she texted that she wasn't comfortable with my comment and declined to see me.

So just like that, over a dumb joke I lost out on some pretty good pussy. Kinda crazy that you can get disqualified for little shit like that but there you have it...

[Supreme4ever]

Tiger Mandingo I believe you were perfect besides the frequently text msgs. I believe you still have her just use the push and pull method in the future. I would stay on track but as an ex told me once you should not be a dead horse.

[RatInTheWoods]

(06-14-2018 11:24 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

"you certainly know how to leave a man with blue balls". I regretted the text as soon as I sent it and it was a stupid joke but I thought..oh well whatever.

she texted that she wasn't comfortable with my comment and declined to see me.

So just like that, over a dumb joke I lost out on some pretty good pussy. Kinda crazy that you can get disqualified for little shit like that but there you have it...

I hear a lot of advice about "sexualise early and always" on dates. Its not what I do.

It depends on who you are dating and what you want from her.

It also depends a hell of a lot on the "sexual market value" differential.

If you are close to her SMV and she isn't a slut, then early sexualisation will cost you the shot, which is what happened for you.

If she is a slut, and you want to filter for a slut, then great idea to go in hard and early and either get the nod or the "don't call again".

But it all changes if you are a 9 and she is a 6. You can get sexy early because she knows she has to put out to keep you interested if you are 3 points higher SMV.

I never sexualise early, because I don't date sluts, and don't date ugly chicks....

Thats my theory anyway.

[speculator]

This is a comment I found under a ROK article a long time ago. i don't remember the author's name but he gave the best advice to anyone who was let down by women.

Code:

Code:

If you gave a woman the opportunity to build her life to perfection, to have everything she would ever or could ever want, she would still be fucking miserable. You could sit her down at a computer and have her design the perfect man: the perfect height, career, social status, sex skills, money, personality -- fully customized to her desires.

You could let her construct the perfect career. It would most likely be something that requires about 10 hours of work per week, has an awe-inspiring, instantly respectable title, plenty of social gatherings and luncheons where she can dress up in her best outfits, and an unlimited number of photo opportunities where she could look like a bad-ass powerful bitch on her various social media accounts.

She could fix any perceived physical imperfections she may have as well. Where the ass cheek meets the hamstring look a little cottage cheesy? Fixed. Got saggy tits or a lazy eye? Gone in an instant.

Give a woman all of this and within three months she will find something to bitch about. They are never happy, and this "Instagram Model" will never be happy, either. She may hit the wall, but the wall barely exists at this point. I know a 44-year-old woman who looks good for her age and actually has a pleasant personality -- she did a free match.com weekend and got over 180 messages. Forty-four fucking years old, gents, and 180 messages. Let that sink in. As long as a woman even so much as maintains a physique that resembles a female human, then she'll always have options in this country.

This girl Kyle wrote about will be fine, she won't be happy, but she will be fine. She'll have everything she could ever want. She will settle down in her thirties; she will marry a dude who, more than likely, has his shit together and has more to offer than she deserves, but she won't come close to loving him; she won't come close to being fulfilled. Her life will be better than 99% of any human being who has ever lived, but she will be despondent no matter what.

As a man, you can know how to be happy, or, at least at a minimum, you can know contentedness. It can be easy to get pissed off at how easy these bitches have it in life, but they know no peace. They're constantly yearning for the next rush; the next thing they think will make them "happy," but it will be fleeting, or worse, never come at all.

The point is: the suffering you go through as a man creates the opportunity for you to be happy. When you've shoveled shit your whole life, it doesn't take much to make you feel good. Embrace the fact that it's always going to be work for you -- no matter what. Want a decent physique? Work. Want money? Work. Want to bang out hot women? Work. Try to enjoy the journey and the process. Women have no fucking journey, and their process consists of showing up, therefore, they have no appreciation for anything.

Always know that you're better than them; know it and never hide the fact that you know it. Because deep down, they all know it, too

Bitches ain't shit but hos and tricks bro. You can't apply scientific method to irrational creatures and expect bulletproof results. Who gives a fuck what she thinks or feels when she is incapable of logical reasoning? You can keep her number or you can delete it. Never ever pay attention what they write or say. 99.9% of the time they spit out impulsive nonsense that should be ignored. I humiliated sluts and thought that everything is over but they came back like nothing ever happened. I treated them well and they disappeared like Hillary Clinton's emails. Bitches come and go, don't make a big deal of it.

[Mess O.]

Perhaps the only thing we can agree on is the importance of trying.

[Mess O.]

(06-14-2018 11:24 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

Went out with a girl the other nite. Everything supposedly went great, she even texted me that she had a great time. I went for the bang but we only ended up making out before I headed home. Then as we texted back and forth later i made a joke saying "you certainly know how to leave a man with blue balls". I regretted the text as soon as I sent it and it was a stupid joke but I thought..oh well whatever. Can't be that bad. Then there was radio silence for an entire day after that text. I asked her if we were still on for our next date and she texted that she wasn't comfortable with my comment and declined to see me.

So just like that, over a dumb joke I lost out on some pretty good pussy. Kinda crazy that you can get disqualified for little shit like that but there you have it...

As far as that goes, even if you hadn't made that crack, I tend to think that if a bitch is gonna get so uproariously offended that easily, then you'd have inadvertently done something else to have 'blown it'.

[questor70]

Women are experts at picking up body language. You have to communicate on their own level.

[YoungAngel1]

(06-15-2018 09:42 AM)Mess O. Wrote:  

(06-14-2018 11:24 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

Went out with a girl the other nite. Everything supposedly went great, she even texted me that she had a great time. I went for the bang but we only ended up making out before I headed home. Then as we texted back and forth later i made a joke saying "you certainly know how to leave a man with blue balls". I regretted the text as soon as I sent it and it was a stupid joke but I thought..oh well whatever. Can't be that bad. Then there was radio silence for an entire day after that text. I asked her if we were still on for our next date and she texted that she wasn't comfortable with my comment and declined to see me.

So just like that, over a dumb joke I lost out on some pretty good pussy. Kinda crazy that you can get disqualified for little shit like that but there you have it...

As far as that goes, even if you hadn't made that crack, I tend to think that if a bitch is gonna get so uproariously offended that easily, then you'd have inadvertently done something else to have 'blown it'.

Exactly. She's obviously super picky, super busy with work(doesn't give a fuck about dating), or has a ton of dating options to choose from. Even a combination of all

[robreke]

In the initial stages of dating, you basically are like a maestro conducting an orchestra: every little thing, every detail of the orchestra has to be played and "conducted" pretty much perfectly. One mistake and one of the sections starts playing badly and the whole symphony can fall apart.

Unless you're a complete natural, which some guys here certainly are, or her attraction level is already 8.5 on a 10 scale or higher, you have very little room for slip up. The girl is "trying you out" to "see how it goes" on the first date.

In our mind, we already know we want to bang her and probably, if she's hot enough, we'd be down to have some kind of a relationship, before the first date, just based on our attraction.

Not women.

One little slip, one show of over-aggressiveness ( which shows you're a horn-dog who, she thinks, doesn't get laid enough) or 'neediness' or a off-hand comment to the Uber driver or an off-hand comment about some passerby on the street, or whatever, that doesn't measure up to her standards, is sometimes met by 'no second date'

I've pretty much got to the point where I say what I want on dates and it usually works. I think that's because I've been on so many dates, I know what girls find attractive and don't and so, it comes more naturally.

On the other hand, i've had second or third dates where, after the first date, the girl was quite into me and texting me about what my favorite music was because she wanted to make me a playlist, or she was texting me trying to start a converstion before the date (obvious signs of attraction). Then, on the next date, I may escalate too hard, or something else. I was ghosted.

I'd be thinking later to myself, 'wait, that uber driver said something weird so I said something back, or when I commented about that? or when she said that, I now realize that was a very subtle shit test. I think my response "failed" it' Then, I'd wonder ' is that or those reasons the reasons she ghosted?'

I'd think to myself 'no way, no one is that fucking petty' Well, yes, they ARE that fucking petty.

The more I'd think about it the more I'd realize that 'yep, she ghosted me for that of all damn things. Even though we went on a few dates, spent all that time together, she'd rather ghost and start all over.' Unbelievable but true.

Sometimes, it's over aggression and sexualizing, sometimes, it's a 'weird' text after the date, etc...

In the initial stages of dating attractive women, men truly are performing clowns that must 'pass her tests'

I'm not saying be a dancing monkey and worry too much about what she thinks. I advocate Speculator's advice above: just enjoy yourself and don't worry about the random, meaningless statements of girls. Just realize, you'll be ghosted sometimes over petty things

This is why I'm thankful for the easier girls out there. The easier ones always seem to come from online/apps

[questor70]

Petty isn't really the right word. What you're describing is a form of prejudice. Women (even SJWs) practice extreme prejudice. Sure, you can rationalize it away and say they have to because they just get hit up too much. They simply don't have the time to give every suitor a truly fair-shake. But the bottom line is they are liable to reject guys based on making snap judgments which in many cases is incorrect. This cuts both ways, of course, letting guys in who pump n dump them, or rejecting guys who are great LTR material but had a bad day or just missed one hoop they were supposed to jump.

[griffinmill]

On the subject of mercurial women and not knowing what to think half the time...

I'm in Warsaw right now and have had about ten first dates in 10 days. The best date was with a girl in her early 30s. She was the first to bring up fucking (before we met, over text) which I always ignore and can be very suspicious about.

The date itself was THE best first date I've been on since being here. She was laughing at practically everything I said (clutching her stomach, throwing head back), big connection, a very similar intellectual match, just a perfect evening. Red flag though: tattoos and I presumed she was kind of promiscuous, so this was no LTR girl. But still, amazing night. Solid make-out, but refused invitation back to my apartment.

At the end of the night she looks at me shyly and says "Do you think we could see each other again? I'm free Sunday?"

I told her I'd hit her up.

Texted 48 hours later.

No response.

[Mikestar]

(07-29-2018 04:41 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

On the subject of mercurial women and not knowing what to think half the time...

I'm in Warsaw right now and have had about ten first dates in 10 days. The best date was with a girl in her early 30s. She was the first to bring up fucking (before we met, over text) which I always ignore and can be very suspicious about.

The date itself was THE best first date I've been on since being here. She was laughing at practically everything I said (clutching her stomach, throwing head back), big connection, a very similar intellectual match, just a perfect evening. Red flag though: tattoos and I presumed she was kind of promiscuous, so this was no LTR girl. But still, amazing night. Solid make-out, but refused invitation back to my apartment.

At the end of the night she looks at me shyly and says "Do you think we could see each other again? I'm free Sunday?"

I told her I'd hit her up.

Texted 48 hours later.

No response.

Welcome to Polska. This is why I don't game chicks there anymore, because it's BS.

[StrikeBack]

Going on a date in a Game context is like leading a dance. You can't PG-ballroom dance with her the whole night with your bodies miles apart, then get all MA15+ dirty dancin', rubbin' and gropin' right at the end. She'd follow you in the heat of the moment, but she'd freak out afterwards, understandably.

Anyway, we've all been there. I've been there plenty of times, and once I figured out why, it stopped happening to me. You see, I stopped analysing what the hell I did wrong, and what the girl was thinking or doing. Instead, I began to be brutally honest to myself and thus realised that I had no idea what I wanted from those women. Was I after marriage, a serious relationship, just-see-how-it-goes relationship or a casual one? If I didn't know what I wanted myself, I wouldn't know where and how to lead her, because she for sure would have no clue what she wanted.

So Mess O, what are you honestly after?

[kazz]

I do not sexualize any conversation period unless I have built a report in person. Internet dating is responsible for this as well as social media texting etc. Now days dont do it period, its old and outdated now, its cringy. Like you said TigerM. you regretted it as soon as you sent it.

When I was 18 in the 90s things were so much less complicated.

[Batman_]

(06-15-2018 02:23 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

But it all changes if you are a 9 and she is a 6. You can get sexy early because she knows she has to put out to keep you interested if you are 3 points higher SMV.

HAHAHA no. Uglier chicks are less compliant and put up more shit tests than hot ones, it's completely enraging. Never again.

[Pointer]

(07-29-2018 04:41 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

On the subject of mercurial women and not knowing what to think half the time...

I'm in Warsaw right now and have had about ten first dates in 10 days. The best date was with a girl in her early 30s. She was the first to bring up fucking (before we met, over text) which I always ignore and can be very suspicious about.

The date itself was THE best first date I've been on since being here. She was laughing at practically everything I said (clutching her stomach, throwing head back), big connection, a very similar intellectual match, just a perfect evening. Red flag though: tattoos and I presumed she was kind of promiscuous, so this was no LTR girl. But still, amazing night. Solid make-out, but refused invitation back to my apartment.

At the end of the night she looks at me shyly and says "Do you think we could see each other again? I'm free Sunday?"

I told her I'd hit her up.

Texted 48 hours later.

No response.

In Poland girls over 25-26 are the worst. Their expectations go through the roof although their SMV is quickly disappearing. The red flag is that she was over 30 and not married or in a LTR.
You probably fucked up on the invitation back to your flat because that sounds like an easy lay for me.

Polish girls are at the their best between 18 and 24. Many get married soon after and it's not uncommon to have at least 1 child before 30.

The ones who don't get married fall into 3 categories:
1. Girls who were in a LTR that didn't work out. They usually have a low notch count and are good for the taking. I believe they can make good wives as long as you keep them in check (no communication with her ex is a pre-requisite)
2. Girls who studied abroad/chasing the cock carousel. You can bet they are promiscuous and very similar to Western girls. Because of the attention they get in the West, they also stop trying to look attractive and feminine, a few extra pounds, piercings, tattoos and bitchy attitudes are not uncommon.
3. Career girls who prefer to work instead of developping meaningful relationships. They may or may not be promiscuous, some are sexually frustrated and will go crazy in bed, some like to hang around with other "cat" ladies and seek attention from beta males who will buy them drinks in shitty overpriced bars/clubs.

In Poland I really recommend finding the student areas, otherwise you're wasting your time.

[Mess O.]

(07-29-2018 05:16 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

So Mess O, what are you honestly after?

For one thing, given the context of a date like the one I described, I'd like for her to just say goodbye and take off if she's 'not feeling it', as opposed to an epic makeout. What I'm after is someone who'll maintain interest past the 2-hr mark before just cruising back online into the warchest of dicks.

[DimeBait]

Young Jedi, some women (read people) will literally pity fuck you just to go with the flow and get the interaction over with. Some just don’t want to disappoint in the moment, then ghost afterwards.
As soon as young men realize that women are literally no different than men when it comes to human behavior the better off you’ll be. Think of the jacked up shit you’ve done before then just x2 and you’ll understand women’s (read human) behavior.

[ADEBISIGARANA]

I do not think you did anything wrong. perhaps she had not shaved her snatch and didnt want to come back with you for fear of being ridiculed. Or maybe she was on her periods.. who cares girls are weirdos. just move on to the next. safe travels.

[Mess O.]

I like the way ya think.

[Delta]

Two comments on all this:

1. Regarding whether or not to escalate on a first date- Look, I know it doesn't always feel natural. It's incredibly difficult to escalate in a smooth fashion. But in my experience, it doesn't have to be that smooth. I can't tell you how many times I've escalated in ways that felt totally ham-fisted and contrived at the time... like out of nowhere just rubbing a girl's leg or back, or putting my arm around her... that led to an otherwise pretty mediocre date wanting to see me again. In fact, one of my past girlfriends told me that she didn't really like me at first, and that it turned around when I randomly just put my arm around her while sitting on a picnic table.

On the other hand, when I've taken the approach of just chatting for a bit as the first date and saving the physicality for the second date, I am NEVER granted that second date. NEVER. EVER. It's terrible advice. I've come to the conclusion that demonstrating your own value is only half the battle, and it's equally (if not more) important to also demonstrate your desire for her. Let me state this more concisely, because it's important:

Female attraction = Attractiveness of male subject + male subject's desire for her

We all know chicks don't like unattractive men, but they also don't like attractive men who don't appear to desire them.

2. Regarding the 'Hail Mary' kiss at the end of the date- I'd argue the end of date kiss is not always a Hail Mary. There are instances where it is and isn't.

Yeah some girls who aren't digging you will be like "well it was nice meeting you" and give a quick polite hug, some will discourage you from even walking them to their car... in these cases, a kiss is clearly way too forced and should not be attempted.

But then you have other cases where girls give you a somewhat affectionate hug and stand there smiling and looking into your eyes, quite obviously waiting for you to kiss them... in these cases I'd argue it's best to give it to them. Avoids making you look like a moron who can't read signals or a wuss who's afraid to make the move, and makes the date a bigger deal in her head. My own experience doesn't tell me whether it's best to give a quick kiss or go full-on makeout, so I defer to the consensus here and [lately] keep it short and not too much tongue.

[Mess O.]

Through practice & experience, I've constructed an 'escalation template' I use on my dates. Unless the date's a total bomb from the start, I always initiate this template of very gradual, physical escalation with (hopefully) proper gauging as to her receptiveness. You must escalate.

[mr-ed209]

I think you forced the issue a little bit and kind of led her on a bit of a road to nowhere. You got shut down with a little bit of auto rejection and ASD thrown in for good measure. If she was into it (which it sounds like she was), you didn't make a decisive enough attempt to pull her away and isolate her; or you did but your logistics made it a case of 'wrong place wrong time'. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you just made out in the street for a couple minutes like some frustrated teenagers because you didn't have a plan of how you were going progress things.

Personally (and my advice may be terrible) I think you could have played 2 ways to have had a higher chance of success.

1. Either you went in for a solid end of date kiss -lasting around 5 seconds. Pulled away all swarve, looked her in the eyes and confidently said good bye. Walked away into the night like some man of mystery and tried to play for a 2nd date over the phone. - Probably advisable with shitty logistics.

2. Or you go for the make out and escalate it hard by feeling her up etc. Pull away after about 10 - 15 seconds and make some excuse of something she should check out at your apartment. Obviously you would have to end the date close to your apartment for this one to work. By offering to walk her to her car you're kind of taking yourself out the game.

In my experience you only get one chance with the whole escalation thing. If it doesn't go anywhere the first time, or if you fail to pull the trigger correctly it's game over. Girls get spooked and make their excuses not to see you again. The fact that she was so quick to send that text (the same night) suggests she felt embarrassed by 'putting herself out there' during the make out and that it would grant you some entitlement as to what happens on the next date (should there be one). After thinking it through she spooked and pulled the plug. No coming back from there.

[Mess O.]

Yeah, #1 would've been better.

[RedPillUK]

(08-24-2018 12:50 AM)Delta Wrote:  

Two comments on all this:

1. Regarding whether or not to escalate on a first date- Look, I know it doesn't always feel natural. It's incredibly difficult to escalate in a smooth fashion. But in my experience, it doesn't have to be that smooth. I can't tell you how many times I've escalated in ways that felt totally ham-fisted and contrived at the time... like out of nowhere just rubbing a girl's leg or back, or putting my arm around her... that led to an otherwise pretty mediocre date wanting to see me again. In fact, one of my past girlfriends told me that she didn't really like me at first, and that it turned around when I randomly just put my arm around her while sitting on a picnic table.

On the other hand, when I've taken the approach of just chatting for a bit as the first date and saving the physicality for the second date, I am NEVER granted that second date. NEVER. EVER. It's terrible advice. I've come to the conclusion that demonstrating your own value is only half the battle, and it's equally (if not more) important to also demonstrate your desire for her. Let me state this more concisely, because it's important:

Female attraction = Attractiveness of male subject + male subject's desire for her

We all know chicks don't like unattractive men, but they also don't like attractive men who don't appear to desire them.

This is so true. If you go on a date and don't even touch the girl, what the fuck is wrong with you? Seriously, what are you trying to do, make a friend? Thats a newbie mistake.

I used to be like that, when I didn't have any game. Now I will make sure I at least touch her, and yeah a lot of the time it feels slightly uncomfortable and not smooth.

I remember when I first started to learn about game, I was on a first date and we were just having a friendly conversation for 45 minutes or more. Eventually I put my hand on her leg, I was conciously thinking about 'escalating' and all the game theory I had read and I was nervous but I did it anyway. Later she told me that she thought I didn't like her until I did that.

I also remember meeting a girl straight off Tinder. I was late and she seemed bitchy/stressed about that. She didn't even take off her sunglasses or kiss me/greet me hello. Conversation was extremely difficult at first due to language barrier. We started to walk down the street together.

I felt unnatural walking next to a girl and not holding her hand so I decided to hold her hand five minutes after meeting her, even after the terrible start to the date and the lack of warmth and interest I was recieving. 30 minutes later we were making out on the beach, and 30 minutes after that she was in my bed after I invited her back to "have a shower".