[Belarus1212]

I confirm it is, although Minsk is deteriorating at an incredible pace. I was there last weekend, and on a Saturday night in rich cat it was 3 guys for 1, mostly arabs, Turks and even polish guys! I was stunned, those kinds of ratios are foreigner presence would have been unthinkable 1 year ago

[Belarus1212]

To rocha, I am definitely not praising Russia in the sense you think I am. I am just saying the virus is not as spread out. When I talk about Russian girls doing interesting stuff in their lives, I mean that they'll bang you for being a cool good looking guy with game and not just trying to extract. I'm not saying they would make good housewives or girlfriends. And their are some traditional good girls to be found, but you have to look around.

[Belarus1212]

Rocha, i agréé completely with your assessment. Kiev girls are just a product of their environment

[QAZ]

(04-10-2018 02:57 PM)Belarus1212 Wrote:  

I confirm it is, although Minsk is deteriorating at an incredible pace. I was there last weekend, and on a Saturday night in rich cat it was 3 guys for 1, mostly arabs, Turks and even polish guys! I was stunned, those kinds of ratios are foreigner presence would have been unthinkable 1 year ago

The obvious conclusion to make would be that the new liberal visa policy is having an effect however Turks not needed visas for years so it can't just be that.

To avoid Turks just hit the lounge bars and upscale places like Vinny Shkaff. Of course it won't be long before they are swamped too.

Let's face it if you really want to get away from other foreigners no matter what their nationality you have to go to any Russian city outside of the big two or Belarusian second tier.

[Belarus1212]

I would not advice vinniyi shkaf as the girls tend to be old (closing to 30) and most foreigners go there. They will ask you why you are there. The Ukrainian shadow of sex tourism is already well implemented. I think Turks are coming more and more to Belarus instead of Kiev because they were not racists towards them, but they are bringing down the place quickly. You also have many Israelis

[Heightcel]

Anyone who will be in Kiev end of April / begin of May? i'm looking for a daygame / nightgame wing

6'5 white guy, above average looking, i speak zero russian

[traveler97]

(04-10-2018 12:20 AM)Belarus1212 Wrote:  

About the guy talking about showing them your passport, I did it so many times and they craved me for my Canadian passport, they assume you have money. But keep in mind, if you do that, it makes you enter the provider to fuck me game, which is not something that interests me in the first place.

Of course, but one thing it's to show a Canadian passport, another one it's to show an Italian one.
A lot of them traveled to Italy, and they know we are wealthy, but definitely not rich as an American or a Canadian can be on the average.

(04-10-2018 02:57 PM)Belarus1212 Wrote:  

I confirm it is, although Minsk is deteriorating at an incredible pace. I was there last weekend, and on a Saturday night in rich cat it was 3 guys for 1, mostly arabs, Turks and even polish guys! I was stunned, those kinds of ratios are foreigner presence would have been unthinkable 1 year ago

I totally agree, Arabs and Turks everywhere, if it was not for the weather and the city's architecture, sometimes you would think to be in the Middle East.

Anyway, it's obvius you're experienced, and you're giving true pearls to the community.
Probably a lot of people don't get how the situation is going in Eastern Europe due to a lack of experience, but as you wrote, Instagram is spoiling everything (and I would add low cost companies who are bringing tons of desperates from the West and other places).
Even the girl who lives in a 100 inhabitants village has got Instagram, and on her profile she uploads all her half naked photos, and receive dozens of messages and likes every day from horny guys all over the world, making her feel like a princess.
This without setting a foot outside her village.

As you wrote the solution it's to learn Russian, as English speaker girls are spoiled, but I don't think people will get it.

[Belarus1212]

I agree, we are running a race against the clock to find unspoiled girls by the Instagram virus. In the Ukraine they get spoiled from the age of 16, in Belarus from 19, but Belarus will very soon become just as bad as the Ukraine . Tough times gentlemen. #goodmorningworld #selfietime

[Belarus1212]

I suspect soon going to EE will become completely useless, it is becoming a business for them to fool foreigners. The solution is to work on yourself as much as possible and less on them

[[email protected]]

Quote:

Of course, but one thing it's to show a Canadian passport, another one it's to show an Italian one.

I would never show a girl my passport in Ukraine, it has my real age FFS

I keep it well hidden in my apartment in case the girls start sniffing around when they come back

[Skank_Hunt]

The Ukrainians I came across in Poland fell into two groups: instagram whores who were looking for sponsors, generally English speaking and in the tourist areas of the city; and, regular workers, who did not speak English but enough polish to work in a shop.

The instagram whores were just impossible to get out, and in any exchanges it quickly became apparent that they changed their pictures a LOT on WhatsApp/Viber etc. and that they were looking for (another) rich western sponsor. I definitely don't think these girls' vaginas have any cobwebs, but it's like the moment they knew I was going the "game" route they didn't want to know.

The regular workers tended to work long hours, and were still attractive enough to bang. Some girls working in a shop could actually have been instagram whore level if they chose to be "sexy" rather than humble, so putting on a lot of makeup, wearing very sexy clothes, huge high heels etc. (part of the image of the "instagram model") plus being able to speak English would have actually freed them from their shitty jobs (some of the girls really do work hard, have to send money home and are relatively isolated due to not being polish).

This is why I, too, am curious about what OP says is a legit "8", a rating I very rarely give a girl. Is the "8" a reflection of her natural beauty, or is it more a mixture of her natural beauty plus her makeup, dress, entire "image" of the "8" or "9" that guys typically talk about.

Like Roosh has said in the past, and something I have finally come to accept over the years, if you're looking for LTRs and maybe marriage and children, then a sweet, humble Ukrainian 6.5-7 who is not an instagram whore (on my "scale") is a far better bet than the "8" who only views men as walking ATMs, posts sexy pictures on instagram regularly, and travels all over the world thanks to various sponsors. Sure, the girl who "paints Easter eggs" may be boring but apart from good sex who cares about having intellectually stimulating conversation with a female. The instagram whores, being soft prostitutes, are more likely to be starfish in bed or if "freaky" fake porn star mode. With a relatively unspoilt girl, you can train her so that she becomes a genuine freak and the sex is genuine and gets better over time as she becomes more comfortable.

So, if in Kiev there are pretty girls ("7s") everywhere who are just not "sexy AF"/don't speak English/aren't addicted to instagram, and therefore not guys' typical description of an 8-9, then I will settle for the 7s all day. How is a moneygrabbing soft prostitute going to be good for any sort of LTR, apart from maybe the perverse enjoyment of banging a girl who looks like a porn star and is effectively paid like a porn star to do all that shit anyway? You know, the really horny, early 20s porn stars who for some reason need lube. No young woman I've ever banged has needed lube, they were all dripping and ready to go.

And that's what the OP is saying, that you can't get model looking women in a poor country where money is a big problem in the instagram era to not maximize her looks using clothes and makeup, and maximize her money and lifestyle by promoting her looks via social media in order to get her out of poverty? We all know instagram/social media is a global problem that even more than feminism has ruined a lot of places, but in Ukraine it is exaggerated by the mixture of abundance of these hot sluts and the economic situation. This is not much of a surprise.

What QAZ is saying however is also I feel correct. Even in Poland I felt disconnected. Apart from the westernized hipsters, the dating process had nuances that I had difficulty adjusting to. I can't help but feel that it will be a lot different even with Ukrainian girls who are not instagram whores. The Ukrainian workers in Poland could be charmingly feminine yet bizarrely emotional, and I always felt on edge, even if I was brought a small gift or she was in the kitchen "as a woman should be", I could never quite trust what the next moment would bring, or indeed what her "end-game" was. I didn't understand her culture or her mind enough to trust her at all. When she stayed over, we would bang until late and when she slept, I would watch films or write all night. I couldn't do the traditional "kiss and go to sleep together, wake up in the morning together".

I agree with what Rocha is saying about the money being so important because it is the "scarce thing" in Ukraine, but regardless of their current situation and cultural differences etc., they still have working bodies and a hindbrain, so while I know it is difficult to game them purely, do they all just have cold transactional nature to the point where they don't even enjoy sex? Let's say a guy has originally started banging some instagram whores on the basis of his money, passport and lifestyle, but then he starts to bang them like it was his last day on planet earth (dominance, passion etc.): would any of these girls genuinely respond or are they so transactional they feel even allowing him to take further liberties in trying to bang her like that means that she sees herself to be entitled to more money. I mean, it's one of the first thing we learn about women in this whole "red pill" sphere: that women enjoy sex and not only that, if it is extremely good sex, they can get addicted to it and the particular man giving that good sex. Everyone knows about virgins: they can make you wait a lot longer, but once you have sex with them, even mediocre sex to be honest, she will suddenly want to know everything about you, follow you around everywhere etc. Are these Ukrainian instagram whores so burnt out that they just starfish EVERYTHING? That would put them on the level of some of the most hardened hookers on the planet, who naturally see sex as a job, a task, a good that they give away and that the man in turn takes and must compensate her for, because she is essentially forced by cirumstances to take so many dicks that her hindbrain cannot respond to any man with anything other than, at best, placid indifference, or at worst, disgust.

There are as always exceptions to the worldwide traveller, English speaking, completely transactional instagram whore. The genuine relationships I saw between "hot" girls that were instagram whores and whom guys would likely label "8" or "9" were couples who met in high-school, and where the guy (dating way up) provides for her and her only, essentially working his ass off to keep her. I got the impression that the guy's "fashion budget" was almost 95% spent on his woman. Even though this is more traditional "provider game", by my US standards, it errs on the side of soft prostitution at times. These busted dudes would literally work any shitty construction job, while the woman's job is to cook and to look good, then a few times a month the guy can afford to show his hot piece off at some expensive restaurant. Some of the women who look like carousel riders, instagram whores are actually still fucking their highschool sweetheart due to the first dick effect and him having a constant presence in the country and providing fully for her, and that's enough, better than the task of learning English or learning any skill for that matter, even the skill of attracting sponsors vs the more stable monogamous life. So this is the other option for hot girls who want to look hot and may have social media but are more closed and tribal in their thinking, so they are not as motivated to travel to different countries and see themselves as too hot to bother learning English or accepting other cultures.

But like I said, everything needs a context and until OP posts what he sees as his typical "8+" it's difficult to know exactly what the situation is. It's obvious that smartphones and the social media thereon can render women incapable of love by frying dopamine pathways, just as in other ways sex with too many men can render women incapable of love with the resulting 1000 cock stare and antidepressant prescription/substance addiction, but I'm curious about quality women who are neither smartphone addicts nor carousel veterans. It seems that even FSU for all its money problems is going the way of every girl, even 4s, 5s and 6s, owning a smartphone and the place eventually becoming a total wasteland as far as finding a quality girl whose character and behaviors you could trust enough for marriage. The other option of going to Kiev to scoop instagram whores with "sponsorship" game is way too close to P4P for me. As per QAZ' post, I would be curious to know the "other" i.e. non-transactional option, including the struggles.

Just a side note, -- it's crazy to notice Armenians, christian, Indo-Europeans, as being seen to be equivalent to muslim, non-Indo-European nationalities such as Azeris, or other muslim autonomous regions of Russia, simply by virtue of their country being situated in or around the same mountain range. Turks and again originally Turkic, non-Indo-European Azeris and Armenians fucking hate each other, understatement. And ironic that "Caucasian" as we define to be "white" is looked down upon in Ukraine, as this is the area where the earliest "original" Indo-European language that all Europe bar Hungary, Finland and Estonia speaks. If you go back far enough, Ukrainians derive from christian people of the Caucus region, not any other way around. Someone should tell Ukrainians that darker, slightly tan people such as Armenians or Greeks have ancient languages closer to the original "European" that Ukrainian has. Turkic people have language and descent closer to Kazakhs and Mongolians than to the much closer Armenians or Greeks or even Italians. I wonder if this opinion is shared among educated Ukrainians, because it seems like something a Dinamo Kiev ultra skinhead would think, not your average university student. I can understand that due to the Turkish and Arab invasion disdain of Turks and Arabs might have developed over the years (I now hear they have invaded Belarus, which was quicker than I expected), but aren't the (Armenian) Kardashians not worshipped as the original social media attention whores and the queens of marketing their bodies for money? Aren't Greece and Italy admired for their ancient civilizations and their formation of what was once great western civilization? I also agree with Rocha that enough Europeans, whether Armenians, Georgians, or Bulgarians remain in Ukraine, yet they still cannot tell the difference? Well bang goes the typical advice of "look different from the natives". I understand not black or Turkish but I would have thought the Italian/Portuguese/Greek/Armenian look would be optimal.

[shane.shepherd]

Pretty accurate data sheet, was in Ukraine last year for 7 months, banged only 1-2x 8s outa ~20 notches, don't think you can even find any legit 8s to p4p. Language and status are keys to access quality, unfortunately. Nighttime for me was a complete massive waste of time and money, day game didn't do much, mostly did IG and tinder, had the greatest success on IG.

[Rocha]

(04-14-2018 09:56 PM)shane.shepherd Wrote:  

Pretty accurate data sheet, was in Ukraine last year for 7 months, banged only 1-2x 8s outa ~20 notches, don't think you can even find any legit 8s to p4p. Language and status are keys to access quality, unfortunately. Nighttime for me was a complete massive waste of time and money, day game didn't do much, mostly did IG and tinder, had the greatest success on IG.

My boy I hope one of that 8s you mention was that slut I dragged to my home with us

[Belarus1212]

Skank_hunt extremely accurate. To answer your question about Armenians and Georgians, they do make the difference, and they are just slightly above in the racism scale, with for instance someone from Dagestan being at the bottom. If you look like them you will have to work twice, if not three times as hot. I mean a girl who looks like a natural 8. And there are not so many in them in general. When you see a really dolled up girl, you have AT least to take away 1 point from her, look at her heels too she might be short. Also to answer your question about banging the transactional type, I did bang some (not a lot because their attitude repeals me) because like I said I have lots of friends their who are in a high position with money, and we always had tables with legit 8s-9s surrounding the place. I am good looking with a nice body, they get really wet and they really enjoy the sex with you, you can feel it, more so even than average normal goes, since they are used to bang ugly busted dudes. But, they are businesswomen, they would rather have their Channel and dubai picture than a good fuck and they are on survival mode, those girls are not after charming good looking guys and good fucks, if anything it will work against you since she'll think there is no way you'll sponsor her you have too many options (in speaking in general, not necerraily about me) Minsk might even have more Turks. Belarussian people are not racist by nature, at least the girls loved darker guys, like polish or Lithuanian , probably due to the fact that there are almost no Caucasian people there. However, arabs and Turks quickly found that out and they are completely bringing down the place at an incredible pace. It's sad really.

[calwinston]

I was expecting to see some pictures of Ukrainian 8's by now

[REXslavicus]

(04-14-2018 10:52 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-14-2018 09:56 PM)shane.shepherd Wrote:  

Pretty accurate data sheet, was in Ukraine last year for 7 months, banged only 1-2x 8s outa ~20 notches, don't think you can even find any legit 8s to p4p. Language and status are keys to access quality, unfortunately. Nighttime for me was a complete massive waste of time and money, day game didn't do much, mostly did IG and tinder, had the greatest success on IG.

My boy I hope one of that 8s you mention was that slut I dragged to my home with us

What's laudable about group sex , 8 or not.

I attached a jpeg of an 8 , this seems to be natural in the sense minimum makeup, real facial beauty

[REXslavicus]

here's whats typically found on the streets

[REXslavicus]

those are typical ukr 7s 6s , here some other common variants

[Belarus1212]

I'd rate the girl that REX put an 8 if she is tall enough, meaning 170 and up. If 165 I'd rate her in the 7-7,5 range

[REXslavicus]

(04-15-2018 08:25 AM)Belarus1212 Wrote:  

I'd rate the girl that REX put an 8 if she is tall enough, meaning 170 and up. If 165 I'd rate her in the 7-7,5 range

the first I posted?

[calwinston]

(04-15-2018 08:07 AM)REXslavicus Wrote:  

(04-14-2018 10:52 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-14-2018 09:56 PM)shane.shepherd Wrote:  

Pretty accurate data sheet, was in Ukraine last year for 7 months, banged only 1-2x 8s outa ~20 notches, don't think you can even find any legit 8s to p4p. Language and status are keys to access quality, unfortunately. Nighttime for me was a complete massive waste of time and money, day game didn't do much, mostly did IG and tinder, had the greatest success on IG.

My boy I hope one of that 8s you mention was that slut I dragged to my home with us

What's laudable about group sex , 8 or not.


I attached a jpeg of an 8 , this seems to be natural in the sense minimum makeup, real facial beauty

Quote:

I'd rate the girl that REX put an 8 if she is tall enough, meaning 170 and up. If 165 I'd rate her in the 7-7,5 range

Yeah, if she is tall she would be an 8

   

[REXslavicus]

Belarus,youre 6 feet 0? Also where you think is better than Kiev?

[REXslavicus]

Also you mention you have dark skin, most spanish and italians are just as light (possibly even lighter overall) than Ukrainians

[Rocha]

(04-15-2018 09:37 AM)REXslavicus Wrote:  

Also you mention you have dark skin, most spanish and italians are just as light (possibly even lighter overall) than Ukrainians

No. They are not.

[REXslavicus]

Just saw his response ,he shouldnt be seen as a turk unless he has a large beard or turkish looking face