[Dragan]

(03-29-2018 05:47 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Dragan - have you quit porn & masturbation ?

Yes man, but there has been lots of relapsing. This will sound weird, or strange, but when I travel, even for extending periods of time, I get no urge to jerk off. I don't understand why. My datasheet about macedonia, i avoided jerking off for like 11-14 days, was only there in MK like 7...

[Dragan]

(03-29-2018 06:27 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(03-18-2018 12:32 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

(03-18-2018 11:49 AM)Dragan Wrote:  

(03-18-2018 11:36 AM)zoom Wrote:  

^^ So you are off to a good start then. Is there anything stopping you from putting that theory into practice? Anything stopping you from approaching girls?

If you don't have much desire then it might be a good idea to get your testosterone level checked.

Current financial, logistical, and living situations--also living in an area not so good for gaming (smaller city).

Also, I despise American girls, so I'm kind of holding off until I get back to serbia in about a month or so.

To understand causality is sometimes complicated. In your case there is no cause for your situation.

For some other guy, who is your age and not a virgin, there was a cause to his getting laid. To find out what that was would simply be to hear the story. " I met this chick in my basket weaving class, invited her to go for a ride in my van, we parked down by the river, etc." There is a cause to positive events, but there is no cause for the lack of an event.

To solve your issue is simple.

1. Stop searching for a cause why something has not happened.
2. Close the lid of your laptop now and go outside of your home.
3. Don't log back in until you have achieved the desired outcome, then if you want you can tell the forum and describe how you accomplished this.

nota bene
If you are a freedom loving and Western values type of guy, please consider not using protection. Although you are a late starter you sound like a decent enough guy and perhaps would be a good father. If the people who want to take us back to the dark ages are having 4 kids, go and have 8.

Good luck.

I think you missed that part (number 3).

I thank you if you're defending me man. I don't like american girls at all anymore, and I have to explain now to women here how I feel about girls over in the balkans. They are the best!-- Granted maybe I don't have room to say that--but I think they're warm and traditional and thoughtful, so I really like them a lot. (Prob due to lack of westernization.).

edit: maybe you're telling me not to login until i get a lay. I will try to make this clear, I will not lay an american fattie, I just will not. I have explained my reason. I have already waited over 20yrs, and I'd rather get a better first lay than lay a 300pounder. I mean it sincerely, but maybe your perspective is that I need to lay a fatty. I will try to add value on this forum, but I will be honest, to the hour of when I get the eventual lay--I almost think I need project BGD more than you guys, but I think it will be great.

I turned down a fatty at 21 because it was not worth it for me. You have to calibrate right? I'd like to calibrate at a 6 instead of a 4.

I'm not a fan of pump and dump, so i Plan on allowing it to happen organically unless I'm just really drunk (if that makes sense?). I'd rather not do that though...

~~Dragan~~

[SamuelBRoberts]

What about laying an American girl who isn't a fatty?

[Dragan]

(03-29-2018 06:54 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

What about laying an American girl who isn't a fatty?

Thank you for the question, I think I said at some point, logistics aren't good, and I don't want it to be a ONS. (Hope you understand). Maybe---it's just supposed to happen and I'm not supposed to choose.

[Dragan]

(03-29-2018 06:54 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

What about laying an American girl who isn't a fatty?

I should probably just take a step back, and tell you an anecdote that happened today for me, to show you my lack of experience:

Was at the liquor store, and as I walk in the girl is like, "I'm gonna need to see an ID."

Brief aside, I have a decent beard and certainly look over 21.

I'm like, "ok," being pissed off.

And then the girls counterpart, an older woman, was just like "she's flirting with you. she doesn't want to see the ID" and i was like more confused, I just thought people were like straightforward with their intentions.

And I'm not autistic at all, it's just like I expect people to be straightforward, and obviously women are not. It's just like I never learned what flirting was.

And I'm being completely honest, maybe I just look for logic in what people say, rather than reading emotions, gestures, vocal tones, etc.

And to be completely honest, maybe I just am not charismatic enough. Charisma is important, and maybe I need to build confidence--and this my friend, is probably the start of a rant:

I went to university for a decent number of years, and it was unbearable (hearing criticism of white cis males), but I swallowed the pride and just tried to get out. And then I heard similar heated criticism from parents, family, friends, about millennials. I just feel beat down, despite the fact that my father finally, and I mean finally, settled down at 29, and I am much younger than that. I just want to travel, and I mean it in the most sincere way, so that I can grow as a person--I don't like the economic situation in the west, and I certainly don't like the culture.

What did I do wrong? I dont' have a desire to have a lot of debt. And when I settle down, I will settle down, in all honesty. I will look for a good wife, and I will try to be a good husband (reciprocity is important of course, but I just want a hot traditional, fertile, wife.)

[SamuelBRoberts]

Do you think a hot, traditional, fertile woman would like to marry you, if she was ever to encounter you?

[Dragan]

(03-29-2018 07:53 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Do you think a hot, traditional, fertile woman would like to marry you, if she was ever to encounter you?

We'll see, I guess. I'm a work in progress, as is everyone. Is this like, a passive aggressive comment? Like, I tell you guys what I'm going through, and I'm pretty sure I get ridicule or passive/aggressiveness. I'm pretty honest about my current standpoint, so it's like I'm definitely improving. I can tell you all the lessons RVF taught me, and then people are just like giving me shit, even though I can say I'm progressing...

[SamuelBRoberts]

(03-29-2018 08:38 PM)Dragan Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 07:53 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Do you think a hot, traditional, fertile woman would like to marry you, if she was ever to encounter you?

We'll see, I guess. I'm a work in progress, as is everyone. Is this like, a passive aggressive comment?

No, it wasn't intended that way. It just seems a relevant question if this is your goal in life.
I mean if I say, "My goal in life is to get a job as a doctor", and somebody says, "What's your GPA? Is it good enough to get into law school?" they're not being passive-aggressive at all.

Hot, traditional, and fertile wives are an incredibly rare commodity these days, and obviously they have their pick of who to marry. If you're struggling with women to the point where you get upset when a female clerk asks you for ID, you have a lot of work to do to get one, and only limited time to catch up to where you need to be, and "I'll wait till I can leave the country before I start trying because otherwise I might have sex with a fat woman" is probably not going to lead to the result you want.

I think people have been very nice to you in this thread, overall.

[Captain Gh]

Been reading this thread from the Beginning... and unfortunately I believe you're wayyy over your head like Kyle Trouble mentioned. Organising Game Trips is for legitimate Guys who paid there dues... and slayed Pussy like it's water!

Again not trying to be insulting... but your level should be beginner type shit aka Running Indirect Game asking Hot Bitches for Direction Game. Just like you was a Very Late Bloomer... and I did this for 3 months! Was litterally shaking my first 2 days doing this...and after barely a Year of approaching... I was going on InstaDate with women! All of have to do is start NOW.

I started approaching while I was on Welfare with Barely enough money to buy some detergent. Getting good with women when a Late Bloomer is one of these thing where you have to Go All In... if not you will not get past The Approach Anxiety Wall.

Just like you I wanted to wait until I move to another city... because I was scared. There's only 1 way to kill this Fear... and it's to Open your mouth... and talk to an attractive woman. You will hate it... but you have to go through it!

[Dragan]

(03-29-2018 08:52 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 08:38 PM)Dragan Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 07:53 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Do you think a hot, traditional, fertile woman would like to marry you, if she was ever to encounter you?

We'll see, I guess. I'm a work in progress, as is everyone. Is this like, a passive aggressive comment?

No, it wasn't intended that way. It just seems a relevant question if this is your goal in life.
I mean if I say, "My goal in life is to get a job as a doctor", and somebody says, "What's your GPA? Is it good enough to get into law school?" they're not being passive-aggressive at all.

Hot, traditional, and fertile wives are an incredibly rare commodity these days, and obviously they have their pick of who to marry. If you're struggling with women to the point where you get upset when a female clerk asks you for ID, you have a lot of work to do to get one, and only limited time to catch up to where you need to be, and "I'll wait till I can leave the country before I start trying because otherwise I might have sex with a fat woman" is probably not going to lead to the result you want.

I think people have been very nice to you in this thread, overall.

Maybe I tell you what's happened in my life and where I'm going, so that will give you more perspective about me, and like you will see it's not just about one lay, per se... this is probably something I'll have to post tomorrow because it's not simple.

[Dragan]

@Captain, I'm not organizing a game trip--that's where I live. That's why I'm hesitant so to speak, that's my real home. I was going there regardless, and I feel a lot more at home there than here in the US.

[Dragan]

This is a repost, with new stuff at the bottom.

I would have to start in grade 8 to give you a full explanation, so I will:

8th grade: She was a girl with a nice ass, so I asked her out, so that's what happened. So we went to the 8th grade dance, and subsequently dated.

9th grade: we broke up (roughly 5 mos. later), and it was a bullshit reason, so I think that probably red-pilled me.

10th grade- nothing notable--although I got feelings for my debate partner and never told anyone.

11th- see above

12th- I think finally I decided on the red pill lifestyle-- but I still had failures. I will explain: In yr. 11 I took a great catholic girl to prom, I would marry her (can't say I've ever met a more incredible girl), but didn't get positive responses from her--guess I wasn't a G. I was also deeply infatuated with the daughter of a preacher, but I was rejected because I wasn't enough of a bad ass. Finally, the girl I took to 12th grade prom was just incredible, but again I wasn't enough of a bad ass to get a date with her.

1st yr college--I got in incredible shape, actually, but I didn't go on any dates actually. I was not doing any alcohol, so I was in the best shape of my life. (Girls were flirting with me, but I was literally too autistic to notice.)

2nd- I think the problems started here, and it was a girl. Actually 2, I believe. Girl 1 was a literal femme fatale, and I fell for her fast. My parents always ask what happened to me this year.... And it was this girl. She was hot as hell but she was a bi-polar drug user/ alcoholic. Girl 2 was a cute alternative chick--the day after I took her on a date she decided she was lesbian--huge blow to me.

3rd- I saw the true nature of women regarding power, drugs, alcohol, and charisma via hanging out with rich friends. And so I was a bit disillusioned-- as far as I was concerned (perhaps wrongly), I had no way to provide them with the feels that a rich, charismatic guy could--always was more in the intellectual camp.

4th- seriously disillusioned. I gave up, I got tired of the race and was not liking the dynamic I saw at the university (and I mean this in a long term sense- I wouldn't want to marry one of these women later on. Like, can they even cook?; the answer is no.)

Everything since then: For a while I was away from school, taking semesters off, so I was really nihilistic, just trying, perhaps wrongly, just to approach as many women as I could. Seriously. It did not yield good results, but I literally felt like Tyler Durden in Fight Club... I had nothing to lose. It was liberating in some way, because I no longer cared. And yes, I got rejected a lot. I was at the lowest point in my life, and this is where pickup ( the process at least) began seriously for me. I do not care, or more accurately, did not care, but I'm looking for a decent woman. Anyway, I found the forum in the past few years, and decided my opinions (which I'd held for years) aligned pretty well with the forum, and by this I mean that American women failed me (maybe I'm a special case, but I'm not that narcissistic, rather I think I have a different set of expectations than your average AFC, which I would say is a general alienation with the West, that thankfully I'm aware of because I read.)

I have roots in the east, so there's that, and I have a deep fascination with the orthodox church, which I guess began about 4-5 yrs ago, but which I was unable to articulate until about 1-2 years ago. I decided (perhaps subconsciously) about a year ago to move to Slavic Europe, and it was the most incredible experience for me. I made a deep connection with my ancestral faith, and I met women that I consider to be good women (for reasons of beauty, intellect, and religion). I also, very importantly, saw that there exists to be a model other than nihilistic western liberal capitalism (and I think that's really important for american dudes). I at least have a little bit of perspective now, so it's not like I'm starting at square 0.

[SamuelBRoberts]

Oh, so you're not just going on a trip, you're ditching the US entirely and leaving the country in a month?

[Genghis Khan]

From someone who was a late-bloomer myself:

This is what you wrote:

Quote:

Thank you for the question, I think I said at some point, logistics aren't good, and I don't want it to be a ONS. (Hope you understand). Maybe---it's just supposed to happen and I'm not supposed to choose.

I understand this. I really do. I grew up in a very religious and conservative household. I too didn't want my first time to be a ONS. But two things:

1. Times have unfortunately changed. We live in a real degenerate world, where many women delay marriage till their late 20s. In a different era, you could've been married by 21 and be having sex with your wife. But we don't live in that era anymore, and you might end up never getting past being a virgin if you're not willing do a ONS.

2. You missed the boat for a special first time. It could've happened in high school or college. But not anymore. Not really. Life isn't a movie (as much as anyone of us would like it to be). You missed out. That's OK. It's not a big deal. But you can't use the "first time=special" strategy anymore.

My first time: literally some hoe off Tinder. We chatted a bit, she was very clearly DTF as she asked for my Snapchat (and started sending me nudes). She came over, we fucked, we went to the 7-11, got some food and went our separate ways. We banged twice more, I don't even know what her last name is.

It was nothing like I imagined. If I'm honest, I grew up thinking I'd have sex with only one woman, ie. my wife. Fuck, I even tried gaming as a virgin, and I came somewhat close to getting into an LTR with a virgin, but oneitis got the best of me and I scared her away. I also found out that women really don't care if you've had sex already. I thought this virgin girl would be excited I was a cirgin too, she didn't give a fuck.

I might've been better off whoring around earlier in life, and maybe I wouldn't have messed up with this virgin, religious girl.

I don't like it. That wasn't how I expected life to turn. But that's life.

Do I regret having sex for the first time like that? With some random slut off Tinder. No, I don't.

I really don't. I said: "fuck it, I'm doing this", did it and I moved on with life.

You have hang-ups about sex. If you grew up conservative and are a virgin past 20, you're 99% guaranteed to have a hang-up over sex. There isn't anything wrong with it per se, hang-ups are really just moral judgements about when and how to have sex, it's what people in a sane society have. Civilizations are actually build on reigning in sexual desires. But we don't live in a sane society and any hesitation about sex past the age of 20 is going to hurt you.

Just do it man. If you have to fuck a chick off Tinder or some other online dating app, use that. But get it over with, so you can move on. This shit will eat away at you if you don't. At least for me, it was always at the back of my head ("oh shit, I've never had sex, what if she can tell") until I finally had sex a few times.

Don't hold off. Just get it done.

EDIT: just saw you're moving back to EE. My advice: pick a deadline once you're back in EE, e.g. 3 months, 6 months, something. If you haven't lost your virginity in a way you like in that time span, go for an ONS/Tinder/whatever you need. But don't hold on to some ideal for years and years.

[Dragan]

(03-29-2018 11:15 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Oh, so you're not just going on a trip, you're ditching the US entirely and leaving the country in a month?

Looks like it man, I genuinely like it, and have been having the eastern europe travel bug since at least 5-6yo.

[This Is Trouble]

(03-29-2018 06:57 PM)Dragan Wrote:  

(03-29-2018 06:54 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

What about laying an American girl who isn't a fatty?

Thank you for the question, I think I said at some point, logistics aren't good, and I don't want it to be a ONS. (Hope you understand). Maybe---it's just supposed to happen and I'm not supposed to choose.

I can and do understand this, but let me also point this out...it is an old school way of thinking and biology tends to not be so kind to those unwilling to "evolve".

Times have changed. While a few years back this might have been seen as commendable in a girl's eyes, it's no longer the case, especially in America. We have "evolved". People fuck just for the sake of fucking, not because they love someone.

Now, you can make the argument that it's backwards progress and we haven't really evolved at all, merely regressed. However, to that point, Mother Nature does not give a damn.

The current marketplace as it's evolved has clearly spelled out that it wants you to have the opportunities to lose your virginity with a one night stand, or even as something as simple as swiping right on your smartphone.

However, if you look deeper.

Once you go through enough of these girls, then you can have a newfound appreciation for when the girl who is worthy of a LTR comes along. You can appreciate her for the qualities she brings to the table. And more so, you're able to screen out and vet her because you've taken your lumps with the hoes of Tinder.

Because if you don't get some practice with the promiscuous girls first, there's simply no way you can have the tools in your arsenal to make and keep an LTR strong. Humans have evolved so that if you want to produce, you have to have game and be able to manage that aspect of the relationship. No longer can you count on womanly and familial morals to help keep those things together.

It is literally survival of the fittest.

[yankeetravels]

OP I need to drop a redpill about the first time. Don't wait for it to be special. Trust me, you'll regret it. Most guys don't know what they're doing at all their first time, god knows I didn't. Frankly, I was relieved I didn't have sex with a girl I even remotely cared for until I had 3-4 notches under my belt. This may be extreme for other guys here, but I'd tell you to go somewhere you can get "extra perks" and get it over with. I'll admit I did that, made my first time horrible, but it felt like ripping a band aid off and relieving me of all the anxiety from it. So much so that I got a FWB out of the second girl I had sex with for a short time.

(03-29-2018 09:47 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

Been reading this thread from the Beginning... and unfortunately I believe you're wayyy over your head like Kyle Trouble mentioned. Organising Game Trips is for legitimate Guys who paid there dues... and slayed Pussy like it's water!

I see what you're saying here, but this is not the case for every guy. I do agree he should lose his virginity before he does one of those, but if you pick the right countries, you can still succeed with a low notch count. My first trip abroad where I met girls was Taiwan, by no means a pussy paradise. I had legit three notches lifetime before I went on that trip. Over there, I had sex with two girls within a week just by staying on Tinder.

My point is it can be done with the right planning/preparation. I personally very much benefited from a change in environment where girls were more feminine and approachable. Though I just may be a unique case of gaming better out of my element than in my home area.

[ksbms]

This is Trouble nailed it for you - he speaks wisdom. Another analogy is car racing. You first learn to race a go kart, then progress up, then, if you learn a lot and work smart, a Formula 1 car. No-one does it the other way round.

(03-30-2018 01:49 AM)yankeetravels Wrote:  

OP I need to drop a redpill about the first time. Don't wait for it to be special. Trust me, you'll regret it. Most guys don't know what they're doing at all their first time, god knows I didn't. Frankly, I was relieved I didn't have sex with a girl I even remotely cared for until I had 3-4 notches under my belt.

Yankee speaks the truth, the golden truth. I shacked up with the first girl I banged (virgin). I regret it. Even though it was cool, we seemed to get on well for some time, I had sex on tap, I still REGRET it.

You need to go out, meet and sex a few girls to feel out what it's like it out there, what is good or bad for you, how to handle women and understand how they operate. Just get a bang, it's no big deal. There's been estimated 100 000 000 000 living on the planet so far. It means there's been plenty sex going on. Either you take it or not, nobody really cares, it's your life. It's no rocket science, man up and fuck any passable girl that can give you a boner (and if not you got pills to ease the problem).

Ideally, you should do it before you leave for Serbia. Haven't been there (yet) but it's a tough not to crack if you want to sleep with 8+s. You'll be in psychologically much better position if you get a bang or two.

Just do it!

[Jagnum]

I know you said you don't look at porn or you try to control those urges, but you're on the forum a lot.

Not that it's a bad thing per se. But it's not going to get you laid.

[Jagnum]

Like LINUX said, one day you just have to sink so low that you finally say, enough, I'm going to go and talk to this girl I don't care if I'm shaking with nervousness.

I will tell you from the day I finally said, enough, I was 25, hadn't had sex in 4 years. From that moment when I said, ENOUGH, until the first time getting laid after learning game, took 7 months.

The first thing I did the next day I went to Barnes & Noble and asked them for a copy of "The Game". I read the first two chapters there and was hooked. Bought it and read it over the next few months.

I sold all my stuff, moved across the country, and said I'm starting over. That was probably the best thing for me because in a new place, I'm a lot more intrepid. I feel unshackled by society, by tradition, by what my friends think, and I can make my own rules.

Once I got to the new place, I wanted to learn how to talk to girls during the daytime. I also started spending more time in coffee shops. I discovered Roosh's "Day Bang". It changed my life. But you have to put this stuff into action. Reading it is only 1%.

I'm going to disagree with a lot of the forum here. You don't need the gym to get laid. You don't need nice clothes.

You only need to talk to girls using a framework by which you'll have a simple conversation, and then ask her for her number. Day Bang provided that.

[Dragan]

(03-30-2018 09:56 AM)Jagnum Wrote:  

I know you said you don't look at porn or you try to control those urges, but you're on the forum a lot.

Not that it's a bad thing per se. But it's not going to get you laid.

I used to do a lot of spam approaching, so now instead I try to to read all the game threads, even if I don't post on them. For me it's more about technique and solid execution.

[Dragan]

(03-30-2018 10:03 AM)Jagnum Wrote:  

Like LINUX said, one day you just have to sink so low that you finally say, enough, I'm going to go and talk to this girl I don't care if I'm shaking with nervousness.

I will tell you from the day I finally said, enough, I was 25, hadn't had sex in 4 years. From that moment when I said, ENOUGH, until the first time getting laid after learning game, took 7 months.

The first thing I did the next day I went to Barnes & Noble and asked them for a copy of "The Game". I read the first two chapters there and was hooked. Bought it and read it over the next few months.

I sold all my stuff, moved across the country, and said I'm starting over. That was probably the best thing for me because in a new place, I'm a lot more intrepid. I feel unshackled by society, by tradition, by what my friends think, and I can make my own rules.

Once I got to the new place, I wanted to learn how to talk to girls during the daytime. I also started spending more time in coffee shops. I discovered Roosh's "Day Bang". It changed my life. But you have to put this stuff into action. Reading it is only 1%.

I'm going to disagree with a lot of the forum here. You don't need the gym to get laid. You don't need nice clothes.

You only need to talk to girls using a framework by which you'll have a simple conversation, and then ask her for her number. Day Bang provided that.

That's what I'm doing with Project Belgrade, I feel a lot less encumbered by social conventions over there.

[ksbms]

(03-30-2018 10:13 AM)Dragan Wrote:  

(03-30-2018 10:03 AM)Jagnum Wrote:  

You only need to talk to girls using a framework by which you'll have a simple conversation, and then ask her for her number. Day Bang provided that.

That's what I'm doing with Project Belgrade, I feel a lot less encumbered by social conventions over there.

How many girls have you approached stone cold sober with a strong intent, either day- or night time during your last stay in Beogard?

[Dragan]

20ish, but you know social circle is well better there than cold approaches.

[This Is Trouble]

You cannot rely on social circle.

One of the best lessons any man can learn is that you and only you are responsible for making shit happen.