[Dalaran1991]

I was bluffing with this girl when the topic of dark triad came up. At the end she asked if there’s such a thing as the opposite of a dark triad personality – i.e a light triad.

I bullshit it away but it interests me. I’m pretty sure that such a thing exists, the big question is, how does that translate into real life and light triad people, what are they like? Are they successful with life/women, are they happy? Etc.

The dark triad interests us because of its indisputable success in seduction and in life in general. It would be interesting to see how a light triad would pan out. I doubt it would be a complete beta puss, but I doubt it would be a saint loved by all either.

So say, if someone is humble and altruistic (narcissism), sincere and trustful (Machiavellianism) and compassionate (psychopathy), how would that work out?

Interestingly, written as it is the above is the definition of the “perfect” girl for me. Those are the traits that we as men in general love women for.

Now if a man has those 3 traits, what would that be like?

[not_dead_yet]

Strikes me as a blue pill religious type, like a Mormon or big church evangelical. Would probably do very well in a community of like-minded types, enjoying professional and personal success, but probably never reaching the apex because of a lack of ruthlessness. Probably wouldn't mind taking the silver medal in life, instead of the gold.

[Laska]

Sounds like a man who has a lasting marriage. May not be as sexually appealing, but a dark triad man can't form a good marriage, or at least, I've never seen it. Being a good person doesn't necessarily make you beta; it depends on what your goal is. For instance, the dark-triad is generally blue-pill in marriage.

If it isn't worth selling your soul for the whole world, then why would it be worth it for some pussy? Being a good person must always come first. You can't enjoy anything without a clean conscience.

[Dalaran1991]

(12-15-2017 10:12 AM)Laska Wrote:  

If it isn't worth selling your soul for the whole world, then why would it be worth it for some pussy? Being a good person must always come first. You can't enjoy anything without a clean conscience.

Yeah, this isn't stated around here enough.

What I find interesting is that, you dont have to be weak to be a light triad. Actually now that you guys have given me ideas, I think the men we thought of as "pillars of the community" in the old days may very well be light triad.

You know the type, probably your grandad or your childhood's friend's grandad. Very kind and wise and loving, but can chop down a tree with his huge axe and muscular arms quicker than a beta can burst. Got a loving wife who is probably also light triad. Is trusted by the townsfolk and maybe even run the local militia.

My question is, can the experience of being "good" sufficient to train a wise and strong soul? The thing with evil/dark triad is that they have seen and done things and know about people, and thus give them valuable experience.

A "good"/light triad person may not have the mental attitude to deal with the vissicitudes of life. Then again, this is assuming hardship and experience corrupt all souls, but I want to be proven wrong here...

[JimBobsCooters]

It kind of sounds like the kind of guy who marries a fat chick and lives happily ever after (we all know this guy) because he genuinely likes her as a person and doesn't care about her appearance or the traits that his children will inherit.

It would depend on other facets though, I've got a great friend who I'd say is basically all those 3 things but he is super competitive in everything he does, first guy to congratulate you on a great race whether he wins or loses (and mean it) but he'll try his hardest to win and this carried over to his studies, work and everything else. He's also super persistent. I feel that those two traits make up for him not having the dark triad elements that drive him. He'd never do something under the table or dishonest and instead relies on hard work, the long path basically.

[Laska]

(12-15-2017 10:48 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 10:12 AM)Laska Wrote:  

If it isn't worth selling your soul for the whole world, then why would it be worth it for some pussy? Being a good person must always come first. You can't enjoy anything without a clean conscience.

Yeah, this isn't stated around here enough.

What I find interesting is that, you dont have to be weak to be a light triad. Actually now that you guys have given me ideas, I think the men we thought of as "pillars of the community" in the old days may very well be light triad.

You know the type, probably your grandad or your childhood's friend's grandad. Very kind and wise and loving, but can chop down a tree with his huge axe and muscular arms quicker than a beta can burst. Got a loving wife who is probably also light triad. Is trusted by the townsfolk and maybe even run the local militia.

My question is, can the experience of being "good" sufficient to train a wise and strong soul? The thing with evil/dark triad is that they have seen and done things and know about people, and thus give them valuable experience.

A "good"/light triad person may not have the mental attitude to deal with the vissicitudes of life. Then again, this is assuming hardship and experience corrupt all souls, but I want to be proven wrong here...

A good man has to learn how to be effective. Alphas are effective and betas aren't, but both can be good or bad people. A good man isn't always able to be the most effective, but there are perks to being good: people trust you, and you have good relationships with people for a long time. When you're honest, people will generally give you extra leeway, for example, when I worked for a soda company last Summer, I never got in trouble for using a pocket knife, even though others did, merely because I look trustworthy.

The people who don't come to trust you are never trustworthy themselves, so that's a good way of spotting those people. Doing people big favors when its convenient for you (the smart way of being a good person) will cause others to be less jealous, and will win the respect of nice guys. Humility soothes the competitive pride of others. A good person (diligence and work ethic are great virtues) is prone to be prepared; the liar and cheat is not. The big problem in being a good person is dealing with bad people who happen to be alphas, but this problem can be overcome.

[questor70]

Quote:

So say, if someone is humble and altruistic (narcissism), sincere and trustful (Machiavellianism) and compassionate (psychopathy), how would that work out?

I know exactly how that would work.

You're talking about the saint archetype. Jesus, Buddha, Dalai Lama (maybe add Luke Skywalker to the list too?).

The one common trait of this archetype is...well...they don't get laid.

It has just as much raw power as dark triad, but it's all wrapped up in the super-ego.

There is one nice-guy romance narrative that gives women the feels, which is the paternal forbidden-fruit ala The Thorn Birds.



I don't know how often that sort of thing actually plays out in reality.

----------------------------------------

In my experience, women are both frustrated with what modern dating rituals have netted them and yet they feel that there's simply no other alternative.

The older I get the more I feel like I want to actively challenge or subvert conventions rather than playing by the rules. There is a way to do this that will cause smoke to come out of women's ears by not being able to easily classify you or predict your behavior. It's not so much a conscious strategy as it is me trying to present myself rather than simply performing to-type. I think the older women get the more they might be intrigued by this novelty.

When a woman is raising a thought-experiment like "light triad" she might be wondering whether there are guys out there who are like this in defying traditional classification.

[Dulceácido]

I like the "grandpa" metaphor. My gramps was like that. Worked hard his whole life. Alpha as fuck. But very kind and giving. Very loyal and honorable. Married to the same woman from 19 until the day she died at 69. Then he died at 75. Never raised a hand to me--he didn't have to. His voice had so much authority--you'd shit yourself if he so much as glared at you. But, always had time to take me hunting/fishing. Taught me to drive a tractor and plant crops--a skill that I never had much use for in my adult life, but still. Taught me to rebuild the engine of a car. He was the strongest guy I've ever known and everyone respected him. He didn't display any of the "dark triad" characteristics. He could've had any woman in the community he wanted, but obviously he wouldn't want anyone except his wife. That's where the "light triad" (if there is such a thing, which makes perfect sense that there would be) kicks in. Totally opposite of "pick-up." Although it's as effective as the dark triad at pick-up, pick-up is just not on the map.

[sterling_archer]

(12-15-2017 01:09 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

There is one nice-guy romance narrative that gives women the feels, which is the paternal forbidden-fruit ala The Thorn Birds.

Croatia was "shaken" several years ago when Fra Šime did the similar thing. This is a high caliber priest. Girlfriend on the right.

Translation: playboy priest escaped with girlfriend and one million euros, was beloved by female part of his flock.

[loremipsum]

Problem is that women want men to be manly, yet simultaneously do everything they can so that society condemns masculine behavior.

For men who have had no success with women, to become light triad I think one needs to see the other side of the spectrum first (dark triad) before being capable to move to so called "light triad".

[heavy]

Treat others as they should be treated. I used to be a push over with all the New Testament premature abdication bull shit give people the benefit of the doubt all the time.

Read these books for further insight on the pitfalls of light triad from Christianity:
- "A Place for You" by Paul Tornier (this book changed my life)
- "The Dangers of Growing Up In A Christian Home" or "Growing Up Holy and Wholly" by Donald Sloat

The basic message is, when you're taught What Would Jesus Do as a kid, as in you're **supposed** to share your toys because that's what Jesus would do...then you aren't really choosing to be unselfish. You're doing it because of shame.

Sloat's books are based around Christian shame, but shame can come from any non-ideal upbringing. The point is, read the Old Testament and the New Testament. OT God is an all demanding, selfish prick who expects only the most holy of holies, the best of the best for himself. The NT God, Jesus, is the purely unselfish, self-abdicating saint who gives up of himself.

OT first. NT second.

Dark triad first. Light triad second.

[Uzisuicide]

You need both Dark and Light to be ultimately successful and 'happy'. The dark triad has become popular in the manosphere because those traits have have been programmed out of men for generations to make us more compliant and weak in an attempt to gain an upper hand over us in what Ivan Throne calls "the dark world."

There's an interesting episode of the original "Star Trek" series called "The Enemy Within" where Captain Kirk is split into two 'Kirks". One, peaceful and kind, the other vicious and malevolent. The First Officer begins to notice that the 'good Kirk' is unable to make command decisions without his darker half. Both are needed for survival and limits need to be placed on both of these sides. Both dark and light triad personality traits are not exclusive, they are complimentary.

Uzi

[questor70]

Right, and the problem is that women pursue these archetypes in separate bodies, namely your alpha fux and beta bux.

It's like, a lot of the advice I've seen voiced here I just can't do because it feels too "dark". For instance, the whole "putting women in their place" thing if they belittle you in a family gathering kind of reminds me of the famous scene in Goodfellas.

I can't do that kind of thing and I have no interest in training myself to be able to do it. I'll deal with the incident alright, but in a more reasonable, discrete fashion.

You want to be a version of yourself your conscience can live with, not sell your soul to the devil for pussy.

[Laska]

When someone's trying to be dominant all the time, they've become a herd animal, like a teenage girl. Men are made to be a little indifferent, and I often forget that.

[Dalaran1991]

(12-15-2017 01:16 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

I like the "grandpa" metaphor. My gramps was like that. Worked hard his whole life. Alpha as fuck. But very kind and giving. Very loyal and honorable. Married to the same woman from 19 until the day she died at 69. Then he died at 75. Never raised a hand to me--he didn't have to. His voice had so much authority--you'd shit yourself if he so much as glared at you. But, always had time to take me hunting/fishing. Taught me to drive a tractor and plant crops--a skill that I never had much use for in my adult life, but still. Taught me to rebuild the engine of a car. He was the strongest guy I've ever known and everyone respected him. He didn't display any of the "dark triad" characteristics. He could've had any woman in the community he wanted, but obviously he wouldn't want anyone except his wife. That's where the "light triad" (if there is such a thing, which makes perfect sense that there would be) kicks in. Totally opposite of "pick-up." Although it's as effective as the dark triad at pick-up, pick-up is just not on the map.

Yes, this is exactly the image I was referring to. I know a few older gents who were like this, God rest their soul. It seems to be much more common back in the olden days. I doubt we will find many examples like this anymore, which was the point of this thread.

Quote:

You need both Dark and Light to be ultimately successful and 'happy'. The dark triad has become popular in the manosphere because those traits have have been programmed out of men for generations to make us more compliant and weak in an attempt to gain an upper hand over us in what Ivan Throne calls "the dark world.

"

We all know that light and dark are two sides of the same coin, thats why I have a problem with this.

Assuming it is true, then if extreme dark works well with women, then extreme light should also works well with women, logically.

But fuck no, other than some 1950s examples I dont see many saintly gentlemen type who is successful with women anymore. Doubt Ill ever see one.

Instead I see a lot of dark triad types masquerading as saints who do incredibly well with women. A guy in my dojo is like that, back in the days I thought he's the coolest and nicest guy on earth, but turns out he is a dark triad with maximum Machiavellianism and a lot of charm.

So apparently light is not on the yin/yang of dark, at least when it comes to women.

Then again, since women is the root of all evils I guess that explains that

[Dulceácido]

(12-17-2017 06:19 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(12-15-2017 01:16 PM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

I like the "grandpa" metaphor. My gramps was like that. Worked hard his whole life. Alpha as fuck. But very kind and giving. Very loyal and honorable. Married to the same woman from 19 until the day she died at 69. Then he died at 75. Never raised a hand to me--he didn't have to. His voice had so much authority--you'd shit yourself if he so much as glared at you. But, always had time to take me hunting/fishing. Taught me to drive a tractor and plant crops--a skill that I never had much use for in my adult life, but still. Taught me to rebuild the engine of a car. He was the strongest guy I've ever known and everyone respected him. He didn't display any of the "dark triad" characteristics. He could've had any woman in the community he wanted, but obviously he wouldn't want anyone except his wife. That's where the "light triad" (if there is such a thing, which makes perfect sense that there would be) kicks in. Totally opposite of "pick-up." Although it's as effective as the dark triad at pick-up, pick-up is just not on the map.

Yes, this is exactly the image I was referring to. I know a few older gents who were like this, God rest their soul. It seems to be much more common back in the olden days. I doubt we will find many examples like this anymore, which was the point of this thread.

We all know that light and dark are two sides of the same coin, thats why I have a problem with this.

Assuming it is true, then if extreme dark works well with women, then extreme light should also works well with women, logically.

But fuck no, other than some 1950s examples I dont see many saintly gentlemen type who is successful with women anymore. Doubt Ill ever see one.

Instead I see a lot of dark triad types masquerading as saints who do incredibly well with women. A guy in my dojo is like that, back in the days I thought he's the coolest and nicest guy on earth, but turns out he is a dark triad with maximum Machiavellianism and a lot of charm.

So apparently light is not on the yin/yang of dark, at least when it comes to women.

Then again, since women is the root of all evils I guess that explains that

But, wait should we assume women also change and they're evolving...LOL

[BiggNastee]

I got a good buddy who I think would fit the bill perfectly. Nicest dude you'll ever meet. Genuinely cares about everyone he gets to know. The whole nine yards. How is he with women? Married now but he was engaged to a model before that. With one of the finest chicks(body) I've ever met. The reason he was so successful with women imo was he is respected by all. Dark or not I think it's social proof that makes it work.

Sorry about the post. I always sucked in English class

[Comte De St. Germain]

You guys do know Dark Triad originates from the Dark Triad of human traits: Machiavellianism, Narcissism, and Psychopathy right?


Light triad doesn't exist for Christ's sake as that's just meaning you're a mentally stable human being.

[Aurini]

All virtues lie at the mean between two extremes.

Let's look at your list:

Quote:

...altruistic (narcissism), sincere and trustful (Machiavellianism) and compassionate (psychopathy).

I've always thought that the Dark Triad theory was premised on bullshit, because narcissism and psychopathy - properly defined - are debilitating mental disorders. Sure, the Bre-X guys might have been Captains of Industry for a while - but now they're a joke.

So let's rewrite the Dark Triad as flaws, but not as complexes.

Narcissism > Self Love
Machieavellianism > Manipulative
Psychopathy > Brutality

Now we have the two extremes.

Self Love vs Love of Others
Manipulative vs Dutiful
Brutal vs Compassionate.

A healthy psyche requires a balance between each of these; you need to love and emphasize yourself. Part of the point of Confession is to get over the things you hate about yourself, and to stop doing them so that you can love yourself (instead of creating a narcissistic shell of false self love). The narcissist is more effective in the short run, since most men are plagued by doubts - but as you forge yourself into the man you want to be, you'll be better able to love yourself as well as love others.

Manipulative and Dutiful - once again, you need a balance. A kid who can't follow orders is useless. He might get some pussy playing the Rebel Without a Cause for a few years - but by the time he's 30 he's pathetic. You need to balance your duty to others, and respect for the hierarchy, with the recognition that the hierarchy is formed of imperfect men.

To put it another way - it's not what you accomplish on the jobsite that matters, it's what they notice you accomplishing on the jobsite that matters.

Brutal and compassionate - you need the capacity for both. You should be able to cuddle your dog, and slay your enemies.

The difference between the Dark Triad and the ammended Light Triad I just described is time frame. Being a mouth, manipulative, narcissistic rebel in your early twenties will benefit you in the short term - just as being a scammy business guy will get you to the top, only to launch you off the cliff. The Light Triad pushes you towards success in the long term; towards becoming the sort of man that a woman wants to be with, rather than merely the temporary persona of such a man.

The downside, however, is that as you become more virtuous you'll become increasingly selective about whom you associate with. Just as the geek who starts lifting weights will stop wanting to hang out with fat slobs, the virtuous man will not deign to hang out with slatterns of scam artists.

It isn't the isolation of being too much of a pussy to attract women... but it is isolation all the same.

[Super_Fire]

(12-31-2017 04:52 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

The downside, however, is that as you become more virtuous you'll become increasingly selective about whom you associate with. Just as the geek who starts lifting weights will stop wanting to hang out with fat slobs, the virtuous man will not deign to hang out with slatterns of scam artists.

[Higgs Bosun]

(12-15-2017 05:24 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

So say, if someone is humble and altruistic (narcissism), sincere and trustful (Machiavellianism) and compassionate (psychopathy), how would that work out?

Now if a man has those 3 traits, what would that be like?

That's how:

[StrikeBack]

I like this simple explanation that I once read more than Dark Triad / Light Triad, which sounds suspiciously like horoscopes or James Bond fan fiction.

There's good at being a man, and there's being a good man. Women are attracted to a man who's good at being a man, whether he's a good man or not. When we say women are attracted to "bad boys" or "dark triad", it really means they are attracted to one who is good at being a man. This is very rare in our modern world because masculinity has been attacked for a very long time now. So therefore any man who's good at being a man will be successful with women, whether he's a good man or a bad man. It just so happens that the ones who reject the relentless attacks on masculinity at school, church and in the community tend to be the bad ones (the rebels), which is why we have the stereotype of women being attracted to jerks, bad boys, dark triads or whatever fancy terms we've come up with to explain the phenomenon.

A lot of those we call "good men" in this modern time may be good, but they are terrible at being a man. They defer to women, they don't lead, they don't stand up for themselves, they just blindly sacrifice for a society that do not give a toss about them. They never learned how to be a man, just how to be good, and usually they learned so from women, not masculine mentors. Their goodness is wasted, and furthermore, you can't truly be good from their position of weakness anyway. I believe a lot of us were raised to be like this when we were younger, hence the deep seated mistrust and anger towards being a good man.

However, to build a family, a lasting legacy, a man needs to be good at being a man, and also be a good man. Can't be a successful patriarch if you're busy planting flags around the globe, or conning other people around you, or faking a life of hos and drugs on yatches on Instagram. You are not a good man to get women, you are a good man to build your legacy, to raise your children to be successful.

There is nothing wrong with being humble, if you have plenty of strengths and talents to begin with.

There is nothing wrong with being compassionate and helping others, if you are strong and resourceful, and you do so on your terms.

There is nothing wrong with being sincere and trustful of deserving friends and family, those who are supportive of your life missions.

Also, remember that we live in a very feminised world, so be careful not to mix up what a good man actually is, and what society has defined for us. A "good man" as defined by our rotten society is one who serves women. I have, as I'm sure many of you have, been called sexist, jerk, misogynistic, bad etc. just because I refuse to do so, reject broken women and lead my life my own way. Don't let society define it for you.

Last but not least, do not get carried away with what's considered "successful with women" from social media examples or these corners of the Internet. A 1950s masculine gentleman in this day and age may not post up photos of hos he picks up a few times a week on Instagram, but he would still do what he does best which is wifing up a beautiful submissive girl and turning her into an excellent home wife and mother of his numerous children, pissing off all the church soyboys who have been eyeing her for years in the process. Your grandfathers would be more successful than both the Pajama Boy type and Dan Bilzerian type of this world, because they did leave behind more successful descendants. Biology doesn't give a flying rat's arse about one's SJW virtue signaling nor partying with P4P hos if they're biological dead ends.

[Maistre]

Saw this thread title and have been thinking about this quite a bit, because I have long been resistant to any adoption of true "dark triad" traits. After some reflection, I picked out three "light triad" traits that reflect the dark triad. Both clusters of attributes are distinct but frequently comorbid and overlapping characteristics that (1) accompany a certain type of personality (2) can help one advance towards life goals and personal desires, as these are socially advantageous attributes, when deployed in the right context. Most critically, while the dark triad traits elevate the individual while diminishing utility for all those around the Dark Triad type, the light triad traits should elevate the individual AND improve the situation of those in contact with that individual.

With those criteria in mind, I would suggest the following light triad traits: (1) Industriousness (grit, dedication, self-discipline, believe hard work is necessary for success), (2) Gregariousness (evinces a love for other people's company that attracts others, exhibits confidence in one's own social skills and status, demonstrates strength because a true gregarious social butterfly has enough "social currency" to elevate those around them), and (3) Empathy (gain insight into, and confidence from, individuals who feel you understand them, succeed in a broad range of social situations because of one's ability to adopt others' perspective, anticipate others' actions through your understanding of their psyche).

[ThrustMaster]

I’ve scored fairly high in ever Dark Triad screening test I’ve found online. I still consider myself a caring me responsible individual, I’m not one of the bad guys. I’m also chick crack for the most part.

Just my $.02 it ain’t that bad...

[questor70]

How one behaves in normal day to day life and how one conducts his love-life can be different things.