[Digital007]

Earlier this year the money transfer service TransferWise launched what they call a "Borderless" account. It's a virtual bank account that gives you US and UK bank details. I signed up for it a few months back, and since then it's saved me so much money on exchange rates that I thought I'd share my experiences with it.

Who is it for?

Anyone that gets paid online and earns USD, but has no access to a USD bank account. Until borderless came along I was getting paid in USD but having to let the bank convert to my local currency. As you can imagine, the bank's exchange rate was not exactly the mid-market rate. The borderless account accepts USD, and although it enforces a currency conversion in order to move it on to a traditional bank account after that (supports tons of currencies), the exchange rate given is better than most banks.

It's good for non-US-based PayPal users too. If you get paid in USD via PayPal, and PayPal will only let you withdraw to your local currency (thus enforcing their awful conversion rate), then you can add your USD borderless account details into PayPal and withdraw USD - even with a non-US PayPal account. Transferwise's exchange rate will be way better than PayPal's when you then withdraw it to your proper bank account. You may need to call paypal to get them to add US bank details to a non-US paypal account, but in my experience they will do it for you if you ask.


What's the sign up process like?

There's 2 types of accounts within the borderless account, a personal account and a business account. For the personal account they'll need to see a copy of your passport (photo of it will do). And for the business account they'll need to see your incorporation certificate and maybe share certificate. They don't seem to mind where you're incorporated. Their support is really good. I sent them loads of questions and they always replied within approx 1 working day. It is free to sign up by the way.


What are the benefits?

Saving money by letting TW decide the exchange rate instead of your local bank. TW most likely offer better rates. Other than that, it's good to have as a backup bank account in case any of your other bank accounts have issues. Like I said free to sign up so no real downside.


What are the drawbacks?

- It won't let you withdraw a currency that you paid into it. A currency conversion is enforced, but the fees you'll pay on the conversion will be better than most banks will offer. It usually comes in at around 1%, I'm finding.

- There is currently no debit card that comes with it, but that is apparently on the way.

- I don't think money kept in the borderless account is insured the way it is when it's in a traditional bank account. That said, transferwise are doing so well that there's barely any chance that they'll go bust any time soon. In any case, the borderless account is best used as a means for transferring from one currency to another without poor exchange rates, rather than a place to store money long term.

So I've had the account for a few months now and no problems. Hopefully this will help someone. Happy to answer any questions!

[polar]

Interesting. If they're holding cash on behalf of retail banking customers, I'd expect them to have registration and insurance with FDIC and / or Prudential Regulatory Authority (or whatever the equivalent in the UK these days).

Until and unless they have blessing, I'd be concerned about sanctions on them from regulators, from a freeze on business until they are compliant all the way down to a shutdown if they don't play ball.

Disclaimer: pure speculation, not personally whatsoever familiar with the company.

[Digital007]

They're a huge company and very much in the public eye. Because of that I would imagine they're compliant in whatever way they have to be, being in the money transfer business. I don't know that for sure though.

[Ternarydemonite]

Thanks for the tip. I will investigate.

Doesn't Payoneer already offers similar services? They allow you a "virtual" US bank account. It is a type of financial service that they label as a US bank account. It can only receive ACH payments from USA banks. Of course, you cannot use it to receive funds from PayPal, either because the structure of the services or because they are a competitor and PayPal just forbids their accounts.

PayPal is very practical for clients, but their exchange rate is sure a bad one.

[Digital007]

I believe Payoneer has a similar service, but Payoneer's fees are higher as far as I know.

[lazy]

I use Transferwise regularly for transfers. They're great. Once they add debit I'll try out the borderless account.

If you are not American and all you need to do is get paid in the US, another option is just opening a bank account in the US (while visiting). It's surprisingly easy. You can just walk into any random bank and open an account. They only ask for passport, proof of residency - in your home country - and an initial deposit. Some smaller banks have special account types that don't charge ATM fees for international withdrawals. I opened an account that way and have been using it without issue for a couple of years.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I haven't used the Borderless account, but TransferWise is an excellent service that has never disappointed me. Their fees are incredibly transparent and fair.

[Digital007]

Yeah my thoughts are the same. The fees aren’t nothing but...they’re fair. Unlike what you may get from most of the banks, who’s fees are getting into the realms of greedy. 3% just to move your money? Come on. But with transferwise coming in at around 1% I find, that’s quite acceptable.

[RatInTheWoods]

I am signed up, this service looks great.

[Digital007]

Quote:

I am signed up, this service looks great.

It's about to get better too. Debit cards coming in 2018 according to TechCrunch.

[kirdiesel]

Anyone tried Currency Fair?

I am thinking about trying this service since I am also getting paid in USD and need to get the money into Euros.

[soltopia]

I have moved my business account to them after HSBC messed me about.

Only issue is not having your cash protected by the FSCS in the UK. Hopefully they will address that.

[Digital007]

^ They’re not actually a bank, is the problem. So I’d be surprised if they were able to get that protection. They’re trading well though, so it’s unlikely there will be any issues.

[Malo]

(11-12-2017 08:17 AM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

Anyone tried Currency Fair?

Their exchange rates are not as good.

[Teutatis]

I've used TW a few times and I like it quite a bit, I remember them sending me an email months ago to sign up to this new borderless account and at the time I thought it was interesting and I meant to look more into it and then completely forgot about it.

So if I understand correctly I could send USD from my American bank account to the TW borderless account, convert it to Euros at a much better rate than banks and other institutions offer, and then transfer the Euros to an European bank account, is this correct? Do they set a daily limit for the amount of money you can transfer (in and out) or a limit for the amount of money you can have in your account at any time?

[Digital007]

^ Correct. In practice you’d be doing the conversion to Euros during the transfer to the bank account, rather than converting before the transfer. The conversion would happen as part of the transfer.

[RatInTheWoods]

I had a problem with them.

I signed up for a personal account, I don't intend to use it for business, just transfers of private funds.

But one of my mates did a transfer from a "business account" into it and that is verboten!!!!!

So they sent me an email demanding I register a business account, and I said no.

So now they are hounding me for the details of sent the funds, they require "proof of transfer" before they can refund to him, and he is not keen to supply his dna and blood type to them, so my money is lost in the red tape and anal policy.

I'd say give them a miss, the fuckers.

[villageindian]

Digital007, how is this different from Payoneer?

I remember they used to provide a debit card but no longer does so. Also, their rates are lower than Paypal as well. The advantage I see with Payoneer is that I don't have to provide proof of my business setup as that is my hassle. I only have to give my national tax ID for my country so that they can track the money movement.

[Malo]

(11-15-2017 09:34 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

I had a problem with them.

I signed up for a personal account, I don't intend to use it for business, just transfers of private funds.

But one of my mates did a transfer from a "business account" into it and that is verboten!!!!!

So they sent me an email demanding I register a business account, and I said no.

So now they are hounding me for the details of sent the funds, they require "proof of transfer" before they can refund to him, and he is not keen to supply his dna and blood type to them, so my money is lost in the red tape and anal policy.

I'd say give them a miss, the fuckers.

Yes they make that segregation and also if you transfer more than $10K in your USD account, they start asking questions (it's in their faq).

Competing services like Revolut (not sure if available in the US) also have transfer limits.

You can't do "big business" through these type of services. It's just for saving a few dollars on currency conversions and wire fees when making "daily life" purchases and transfers.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(11-17-2017 01:49 AM)villageindian Wrote:  

Digital007, how is this different from Payoneer?

I remember they used to provide a debit card but no longer does so.

What do you mean? I have their Payoneer Mastercard right here in my wallet, valid until 2020.

[Digital007]

Quote:

Digital007, how is this different from Payoneer?

TW has better exchange rates/lower fees and better support than Payoneer.

[RatInTheWoods]

(11-17-2017 01:52 AM)Malo Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 09:34 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

I had a problem with them.

I signed up for a personal account, I don't intend to use it for business, just transfers of private funds.

But one of my mates did a transfer from a "business account" into it and that is verboten!!!!!

So they sent me an email demanding I register a business account, and I said no.

So now they are hounding me for the details of sent the funds, they require "proof of transfer" before they can refund to him, and he is not keen to supply his dna and blood type to them, so my money is lost in the red tape and anal policy.

I'd say give them a miss, the fuckers.

Yes they make that segregation and also if you transfer more than $10K in your USD account, they start asking questions (it's in their faq).

Competing services like Revolut (not sure if available in the US) also have transfer limits.

You can't do "big business" through these type of services. It's just for saving a few dollars on currency conversions and wire fees when making "daily life" purchases and transfers.

Yes, of course I understand that, ands fair enough, but....


I transferred a few hundred from a private account into my Transferwise account and it got flagged as a "business transaction" and my account got suspended. It's been 2 weeks, 15 emails later and still no joy. The money and account are in limbo and they are fucking useless at explaining to me WHY they deem my private account a business one....

I assume there is some fuck up there end in however they flag an account a business one, but its very fishy how the matter is still not resolved despite me showing them the account is private.

I have zero trust in them right now, and also they look fucking amateurish in their handling of such a small easily resolved glitch in their system.

Never had this kind of problem with a bank, so growing pains it might be, but they need to mature more before I would rely on them.

[RatInTheWoods]

btw the way, this is my first and only transaction with them. I was putting some cash in to test the system...

So their fuck up rate is so far 100%.

And the "support emails" are a joke, just no brains behind their efforts to resolve the issue.

[villageindian]

Sorry if I wasn't clear but previously once you setup an account, you could enable card shipping if your balance was $0 to start with. They have changed the policy such that you need to have some balance (think its $50) to have the card option enabled in your account.

Also, its restricted to certain countries so in my country, Payoneer Prepaid card facility is not available.

Depending on where you're based, you may have the card which will be renewed once it expires.

(11-17-2017 09:48 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(11-17-2017 01:49 AM)villageindian Wrote:  

Digital007, how is this different from Payoneer?

I remember they used to provide a debit card but no longer does so.

What do you mean? I have their Payoneer Mastercard right here in my wallet, valid until 2020.

[Stallion]

For non Americans, if you want a real bank with low fees and account in USD +EUR+CHF+GBP, check out Swissquote.

No debit card, it's just a saving accounts with 0% bullshit fees. Exchange fees between those 4 currencies are very close to real market rates.

You can receive money from any account with no fees... but outgoing payments can only be to another account from another bank that belongs to you. Also no debit or credit cards.

So basically it's just like a chest where you keep all your cash, and when needed you transfer it to a more traditional account.

But so far I'm really happy with it. They accept any international client and you can sign up online in a few minutes. But being a swiss bank, US guys have it much harder.