Has anyone here ever created or had an app created that went to the AppStore or Google Play? I'm not interested in learning to code, but more where to start or a recommendation for outsourcing.
Has anyone developed & brought an App to market?
I haven't however I know some very well who has. It is currently on iOS.
He outsourced development to a group in India, flew out there. The app itself was released last week. It took around 10 days for Apple to approve (might be due to software update on iOS).
I don't know how much he paid but if you tried to do the same in the UK you'd be looking at around £100k.
He outsourced development to a group in India, flew out there. The app itself was released last week. It took around 10 days for Apple to approve (might be due to software update on iOS).
I don't know how much he paid but if you tried to do the same in the UK you'd be looking at around £100k.
I have an app on both stores, as part of a product line. I found a very bright young student who needed work, and paid him to develop it. He had project management from some very bright programmers on my staff, but he delivered a decent app for about £900. So about 100 hours of work.
Quote: (09-26-2017 03:48 PM)H1N1 Wrote:
I have an app on both stores, as part of a product line. I found a very bright young student who needed work, and paid him to develop it. He had project management from some very bright programmers on my staff, but he delivered a decent app for about £900. So about 100 hours of work.
Wow, that's great! Any insight on market testing or what made you decide to execute the development. Where would you start if you just have an idea, and from a cursory search, it didn't appear to be out there yet?
I don't know anything about market testing for an app exclusively. My app is an addition to a physical product line my company has developed, so all of our market testing centred around my existing knowledge of the demand, and confirmation from key influencers/major potential customers that I was not barking up the wrong tree. I also had influencers as trialees early on in the product development period when we were putting down prototypes.
If I had an idea, and it didn't appear to be out there, here is what I would do with the benefit of hindsight:
First, do a thorough search. You must know the marketplace, and where your offering is going to fit, and why. With software, you either need to be cheaper, or unique. If you're neither, don't waste your time. That's pretty much a hard rule.
I would make a very careful assessment of how much money was required to produce the idea (staff costs, general overheads, etc). Then I would triple that estimate. If that number was not within my capacity to fund myself, I would find investors, and I would not be too fussy about valuations on the company. I would give away up to 49% in exchange for the money I required to get the business off the ground. I would pay myself something as a salary from that sum rather than trying to hold onto every last scrap of equity. I would also seriously consider a co-founder, as investors prefer that, and it'll let you go on holiday and do other stuff that you can't otherwise do if everything hinges on you. Cut people in, be generous, get your idea off the ground. Back yourself to have another idea after this one, and don't have a mentality that feels you have to make all your money this time around.
If the idea is really good, and it's an app/software, your odds of getting it funded whilst it's still just an idea are pretty high, particularly at the moment when there's lots of money around and interest rates etc are low.
If you can't get in front of enough people/don't have the contacts/the idea is only quite good and unlikely to generate much in the way of returns for an investor wanting 5-10x initial investment, you need to find another way to finance it. Your best bet in my view is to get an app developer (ideally one you know), and make him your partner. He does the dev work free in his free time, in exchange for equity (substantial equity), and the expansion of his portfolio.
Workout early on what your 'minimum viable product' looks like, and always be asking yourself whether that's good enough throughout the dev cycle. Deliver that to market as quickly as possible and as cheaply as possible (duh), and try to get 100 beta testers on board. You can run a promotion or whatever to get people to play ball.
Outsource hardware, don't outsource software unless you are yourself a pretty high level programmer. Hiring students can be a smart move if you can keep an eye on them and you have the patience. If you don't have funding, this is good. If you do have funding, go for a recent graduate. Don't employ anyone over 30 for prototyping software. Not a hard rule, but it seems to be pretty good advice from my experience - both personal and what I've observed.
Talk to as many people as possible about your idea. Try to get as much negative feedback as you possibly can. This may hurt, as it's your baby and we can all be a bit precious about putting this stuff out there, but you need all the criticism you can get - nothing is more valuable in the early stages, nothing will help you more to determine whether you're onto a good idea, and it will be the most useful thing you can have in developing a really top quality product. People who make good criticisms of your idea are literally almost like investors in terms of the value they can add to your proposition.
Hope that helps, ask any other more specific questions if you feel I can be useful.
If I had an idea, and it didn't appear to be out there, here is what I would do with the benefit of hindsight:
First, do a thorough search. You must know the marketplace, and where your offering is going to fit, and why. With software, you either need to be cheaper, or unique. If you're neither, don't waste your time. That's pretty much a hard rule.
I would make a very careful assessment of how much money was required to produce the idea (staff costs, general overheads, etc). Then I would triple that estimate. If that number was not within my capacity to fund myself, I would find investors, and I would not be too fussy about valuations on the company. I would give away up to 49% in exchange for the money I required to get the business off the ground. I would pay myself something as a salary from that sum rather than trying to hold onto every last scrap of equity. I would also seriously consider a co-founder, as investors prefer that, and it'll let you go on holiday and do other stuff that you can't otherwise do if everything hinges on you. Cut people in, be generous, get your idea off the ground. Back yourself to have another idea after this one, and don't have a mentality that feels you have to make all your money this time around.
If the idea is really good, and it's an app/software, your odds of getting it funded whilst it's still just an idea are pretty high, particularly at the moment when there's lots of money around and interest rates etc are low.
If you can't get in front of enough people/don't have the contacts/the idea is only quite good and unlikely to generate much in the way of returns for an investor wanting 5-10x initial investment, you need to find another way to finance it. Your best bet in my view is to get an app developer (ideally one you know), and make him your partner. He does the dev work free in his free time, in exchange for equity (substantial equity), and the expansion of his portfolio.
Workout early on what your 'minimum viable product' looks like, and always be asking yourself whether that's good enough throughout the dev cycle. Deliver that to market as quickly as possible and as cheaply as possible (duh), and try to get 100 beta testers on board. You can run a promotion or whatever to get people to play ball.
Outsource hardware, don't outsource software unless you are yourself a pretty high level programmer. Hiring students can be a smart move if you can keep an eye on them and you have the patience. If you don't have funding, this is good. If you do have funding, go for a recent graduate. Don't employ anyone over 30 for prototyping software. Not a hard rule, but it seems to be pretty good advice from my experience - both personal and what I've observed.
Talk to as many people as possible about your idea. Try to get as much negative feedback as you possibly can. This may hurt, as it's your baby and we can all be a bit precious about putting this stuff out there, but you need all the criticism you can get - nothing is more valuable in the early stages, nothing will help you more to determine whether you're onto a good idea, and it will be the most useful thing you can have in developing a really top quality product. People who make good criticisms of your idea are literally almost like investors in terms of the value they can add to your proposition.
Hope that helps, ask any other more specific questions if you feel I can be useful.
Thank you very much Brother H1N1 for the detailed response to my question! To be a bit more specific, the app idea I have is a child safety application that parents can utilize existing smartphone technology (GPS, alerts & SMS) to keep their children (w/ smartphones) safe. Though I don't know anything about coding, I think it would be pretty straight forward since it wouldn't necessarily need to communicate w/ any 3rd party back-end infrastructure. Unless, of course, there is a form of monetization from basic (unintrusive) data collection. The idea dawned on me as a parent and I think would be especially popular to other parents if marketed correctly.
Though I have no clue of the budget requirements, I am initially prepared to fund it, however sounds like, from your input, my first step should be speaking with an App Developer within my network. (NDA in hand)
Ideally, the app should be free. I've always wondered how, specifically, developers make money on the free apps and whether there is some 3rd party like an AdSense that is subsidizing the free access.
Though I have no clue of the budget requirements, I am initially prepared to fund it, however sounds like, from your input, my first step should be speaking with an App Developer within my network. (NDA in hand)
Ideally, the app should be free. I've always wondered how, specifically, developers make money on the free apps and whether there is some 3rd party like an AdSense that is subsidizing the free access.
Yeah, I sell apps to small/medium business's.
I'm a reseller got a guy who will design the app then I'll just liase with the client, ensure it turns out how they want.
I'm a reseller got a guy who will design the app then I'll just liase with the client, ensure it turns out how they want.
Quote: (09-26-2017 05:49 PM)wingtip Wrote:
Yeah, I sell apps to small/medium business's.
I'm a reseller got a guy who will design the app then I'll just liase with the client, ensure it turns out how they want.
Nice! I know it varies widely, but any ballpark figure of what the development would run for something like I outlined above? What do you charge for being the intermediary?
How do you protect your idea from being stolen by the developers?
Quote: (09-26-2017 06:17 PM)Beirut Wrote:
How do you protect your idea from being stolen by the developers?
Legally binding Non-Disclosure Agreement. Assuming of course, they're reputable to begin with.
Otherwise, I'd imagine only having them work on specific projects which are managed by you or someone else. So no one really knows what the finished product looks like.
DimeBait, my pleasure, hope it's useful. I did come across a superficially similar sounding app that was designed to let parents keep track of their children when they took gap years. I will try to dig it out for you.
Re: protecting the idea: The important thing with an NDA is to ensure that it includes a non-compete clause. It sounds really obvious, but most NDAs do not contain them, and I have seen several instances of people coming unstuck on this.
It's also important to get an IP assignment document drawn up. Harvard had a great, free one that was very thorough. I can't find it online now, but I use it personally (with some modifications for UK law). If anyone needs it I am happy to share it.
Re: protecting the idea: The important thing with an NDA is to ensure that it includes a non-compete clause. It sounds really obvious, but most NDAs do not contain them, and I have seen several instances of people coming unstuck on this.
It's also important to get an IP assignment document drawn up. Harvard had a great, free one that was very thorough. I can't find it online now, but I use it personally (with some modifications for UK law). If anyone needs it I am happy to share it.
It is best to break down your idea into features such as:
1. Has a map where a parent can see where there child is
2. Allows user to set a radius around a home, if the child's phone exits that radius it calls the parent
3. Ability to set "no-go zone radi where if the child enters it calls the parent.
Etc.
An app with those basic features is relatively easy. I wouiod budget it out as:
1. Initial aloha version - 24 hours.
2. Client alpha eview/ feedback- 1 hour (free)
3. Beta development and testing- 40 hours.
4. Client beta review/ feedback - 1 hour (free).
5. Beta changes and resubmission to client - 8 hours.
6. Push to production - 3 hours (0 if the push was made under my developer accounts)
So that's 72 billable hours for the basic features I outlined above. The industry standard hourly rate for web / app development in the US is approx $110 per hour. You could hire a high speed college kid with mobile experience for probably 20-25 an hour.
Also keep in mind IOS and Android native features vary. I can write code to send a text from an Android, however a ios can write the text and pop up the send box, but the user actually has to press the button to send it.
If you're serious about it write down your list of "must have" features and post them or run them by a local developer for a quote.
As far as making money goes, you can put ads on there and make money from them. But with that idea you're probably best off offering a free version (outside of home radius it calls mommy) and an upgraded paid version (mommy can set no go zones and all the local strip clubs). Scope out your competition and see what they are charging.
1. Has a map where a parent can see where there child is
2. Allows user to set a radius around a home, if the child's phone exits that radius it calls the parent
3. Ability to set "no-go zone radi where if the child enters it calls the parent.
Etc.
An app with those basic features is relatively easy. I wouiod budget it out as:
1. Initial aloha version - 24 hours.
2. Client alpha eview/ feedback- 1 hour (free)
3. Beta development and testing- 40 hours.
4. Client beta review/ feedback - 1 hour (free).
5. Beta changes and resubmission to client - 8 hours.
6. Push to production - 3 hours (0 if the push was made under my developer accounts)
So that's 72 billable hours for the basic features I outlined above. The industry standard hourly rate for web / app development in the US is approx $110 per hour. You could hire a high speed college kid with mobile experience for probably 20-25 an hour.
Also keep in mind IOS and Android native features vary. I can write code to send a text from an Android, however a ios can write the text and pop up the send box, but the user actually has to press the button to send it.
If you're serious about it write down your list of "must have" features and post them or run them by a local developer for a quote.
As far as making money goes, you can put ads on there and make money from them. But with that idea you're probably best off offering a free version (outside of home radius it calls mommy) and an upgraded paid version (mommy can set no go zones and all the local strip clubs). Scope out your competition and see what they are charging.
Never cross streams.
One quick thing you should consider when you are finalizing your app:
There is a law called COPPA (The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998 (COPPA) which applies to apps that target child users - the law requires you to have a privacy policy/terms of use in place that discusses whether you collect any child information (like info about what phones they use, or their location). Theoretically, you can just find another app that is targetted at children, and copy their privacy policy/terms of use, but definetly keep it in mind and consider talking to a lawyer about it if you think it applies to make sure you are in compliance (but only after you finish your app - otherwise, preparing a terms of use before you even have a product is waste of precious $).
Good luck!
There is a law called COPPA (The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998 (COPPA) which applies to apps that target child users - the law requires you to have a privacy policy/terms of use in place that discusses whether you collect any child information (like info about what phones they use, or their location). Theoretically, you can just find another app that is targetted at children, and copy their privacy policy/terms of use, but definetly keep it in mind and consider talking to a lawyer about it if you think it applies to make sure you are in compliance (but only after you finish your app - otherwise, preparing a terms of use before you even have a product is waste of precious $).
Good luck!
Quote: (09-26-2017 05:59 PM)DimeBait Wrote:
Quote: (09-26-2017 05:49 PM)wingtip Wrote:
Yeah, I sell apps to small/medium business's.
I'm a reseller got a guy who will design the app then I'll just liase with the client, ensure it turns out how they want.
Nice! I know it varies widely, but any ballpark figure of what the development would run for something like I outlined above? What do you charge for being the intermediary?
Develpment for something you're talking about proably 5k.
We use an app builder software which is used to create more basic loyalty type app's for a coffee shop or something. Only thing is Apple are trying to block app builder apps from their app store currently.
We charge 500 upfront and a 50 monthly fee usually.
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