Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/ebolamericana/status/902341741335855104][/url]
Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/gatewaypundit/status/902588194448973826][/url]
Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/LoganD_Anderson/status/901850834337619968][/url]
Quote: (08-29-2017 08:57 AM)Sam Malone Wrote:
I'm seeing some chatter about Joel Osteen not opening his church for flood victims. News outlets are putting a slant on it like he was at the door turning people away.
Anyone know the real story ?
Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/902694643350900737][/url]
Quote: (08-30-2017 12:28 AM)brick tamland Wrote:
Quote: (08-29-2017 08:57 AM)Sam Malone Wrote:
I'm seeing some chatter about Joel Osteen not opening his church for flood victims. News outlets are putting a slant on it like he was at the door turning people away.
Anyone know the real story ?
First things first, what a tragedy and a terrible disruption of many lives. It's easy to forget that this can happen in a first world country, but as always, the recovery will be swift.
From what I can gather, apparently Joel Osteen is worth about $50 mil. (he doesn't have to pay tax) and lives in a $10 mil. house, and runs a business from a church that can seat nearly 17 000 people.
I'll leave the rest to the Twitterati:
Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/902694643350900737][/url]
Quote: (08-30-2017 12:00 AM)Disco_Volante Wrote:
IMO Houston won't recover. Pro-longed low oil prices, demographic change toward socialism (most recent mayors have been democrats), now this. Prior to this, zerohedge had extensive articles on Houston having the most vacant commercial spaces with companies downsizing. It's become obvious what happens if you buy property near the gulf of mexico....I can't imagine another wave of investment to rebuild it all. From what I've heard Houston has been slowly turning into a shithole long before Harvey.
Quote: (08-30-2017 03:55 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:
AJ+ is a Quatari propaganda network that promotes the Muslim brotherhood. They are an affiliate of Al-Jazeera which has been openly promoting Muslim Brotherhood extremism. Of course they would jump on this bullshit.
Yes - that tele-evangelical pastor did not open the doors straight away, because he is a money-grubbing bloke, but he did open it after a while.
This is frankly irrelevant in the bigger scale of things - Christianity by and large is one of the most charitable religions in the world - anyone who disputes this does not have his marbles straight. What individual pastors or Christian organisations do is frankly irrelevant. Christianity in fact was 2000 years ago one of the first religions which said THAT EVERY CREATURE IS SACRED AND EVERY LIFE OF WORTH. It was back in the day, when slaves were worth nothing and grave sinners or even slight sinners were stoned.
Fuck AJ+.
Quote: (08-30-2017 03:55 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:
AJ+ is a Quatari propaganda network that promotes the Muslim brotherhood. They are an affiliate of Al-Jazeera which has been openly promoting Muslim Brotherhood extremism. Of course they would jump on this bullshit.
Yes - that tele-evangelical pastor did not open the doors straight away, because he is a money-grubbing bloke, but he did open it after a while.
This is frankly irrelevant in the bigger scale of things - Christianity by and large is one of the most charitable religions in the world - anyone who disputes this does not have his marbles straight. What individual pastors or Christian organisations do is frankly irrelevant. Christianity in fact was 2000 years ago one of the first religions which said THAT EVERY CREATURE IS SACRED AND EVERY LIFE OF WORTH. It was back in the day, when slaves were worth nothing and grave sinners or even slight sinners were stoned.
Fuck AJ+.
Quote: (08-30-2017 10:01 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:
Quote: (08-30-2017 03:55 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:
AJ+ is a Quatari propaganda network that promotes the Muslim brotherhood. They are an affiliate of Al-Jazeera which has been openly promoting Muslim Brotherhood extremism. Of course they would jump on this bullshit.
Yes - that tele-evangelical pastor did not open the doors straight away, because he is a money-grubbing bloke, but he did open it after a while.
This is frankly irrelevant in the bigger scale of things - Christianity by and large is one of the most charitable religions in the world - anyone who disputes this does not have his marbles straight. What individual pastors or Christian organisations do is frankly irrelevant. Christianity in fact was 2000 years ago one of the first religions which said THAT EVERY CREATURE IS SACRED AND EVERY LIFE OF WORTH. It was back in the day, when slaves were worth nothing and grave sinners or even slight sinners were stoned.
Fuck AJ+.
For those that don't know where the church is located, it's in Greenway plaza. Interstate 59 was underwater at all exits and onramps. How would anyone had gotten into the church? I also find it hard to believe the immediate street around the church was not flooded, when it has flooded from different storms on several occasions.
Also, they are kind of similar to my church. They send lots of medical ambulances with missionaries around the world. We don't actually keep those at home. If we did, then sure we could rival the Red Cross. How is a church equipped to handle what the largest convention center in the city was not able to handle?
So again, if you needed shelter or had to be rescued by the Coast Guard, why would you want to go to a church? They don't have water bottles on hand, medical staff, police, beds, etc.
This is just another opportunity for typical idiot atheists, Muslims, or others to take the largest church in America down a peg or two in order to make Christianity look like a scam.
There are plenty of reasons to not like that church, this is not one of them.
Quote: (08-30-2017 10:53 AM)Samseau Wrote:
Quote: (08-30-2017 10:01 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:
Quote: (08-30-2017 03:55 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:
AJ+ is a Quatari propaganda network that promotes the Muslim brotherhood. They are an affiliate of Al-Jazeera which has been openly promoting Muslim Brotherhood extremism. Of course they would jump on this bullshit.
Yes - that tele-evangelical pastor did not open the doors straight away, because he is a money-grubbing bloke, but he did open it after a while.
This is frankly irrelevant in the bigger scale of things - Christianity by and large is one of the most charitable religions in the world - anyone who disputes this does not have his marbles straight. What individual pastors or Christian organisations do is frankly irrelevant. Christianity in fact was 2000 years ago one of the first religions which said THAT EVERY CREATURE IS SACRED AND EVERY LIFE OF WORTH. It was back in the day, when slaves were worth nothing and grave sinners or even slight sinners were stoned.
Fuck AJ+.
For those that don't know where the church is located, it's in Greenway plaza. Interstate 59 was underwater at all exits and onramps. How would anyone had gotten into the church? I also find it hard to believe the immediate street around the church was not flooded, when it has flooded from different storms on several occasions.
Also, they are kind of similar to my church. They send lots of medical ambulances with missionaries around the world. We don't actually keep those at home. If we did, then sure we could rival the Red Cross. How is a church equipped to handle what the largest convention center in the city was not able to handle?
So again, if you needed shelter or had to be rescued by the Coast Guard, why would you want to go to a church? They don't have water bottles on hand, medical staff, police, beds, etc.
This is just another opportunity for typical idiot atheists, Muslims, or others to take the largest church in America down a peg or two in order to make Christianity look like a scam.
There are plenty of reasons to not like that church, this is not one of them.
But couldn't one make the argument that all areas were flooded and yet people still found a way to get to shelter?
Whether or not the Church was accessible shouldn't have been the main point - the Church should have been prepared well in advance of the storm, complete with food, water, and emergency bedding.
In fact, even without preparation the Church should have been able to open their doors right away. Any Church worth it's salt runs a weekly food donation service to the poor, which means the pantries are always full of supplies for poor that come in on Sunday mornings.
Even if most people were not able to reach the Church due to flooding, there should have been a Priest there anyways for whoever could swim or boat to the premises - especially if you have a multi-million dollar budget. From a corporate perspective, this was a major PR fail. From a Christian perspective, it reeks of sinful hypocrisy of claiming to represent the word yet not being prepared for a massive disaster despite having incredible resources.
Even if Joel is not at fault, someone within the Church organization is and ought to be fired for this.
Quote:Quote:
On Monday afternoon, I spoke with Don Iloff, a spokesman for Lakewood (and Osteen’s brother-in-law). Contrary to rumors online, Iloff said, Lakewood was not “closed”—it simply had not opened as a formal shelter, in large part because the city had not asked them to do so as part of its extensive preparation for the hurricane. Six or eight staff members had remained on site during the flood, and they had been instructed to open the doors to anyone who needed help. “We are open,” Iloff said. “Anyone who comes there, we’ll let in.”
Of course, if reporters have to call a spokesman to find out whether a church’s doors are open, it isn’t exactly extending hospitality to strangers. But despite Lakewood’s size, there are several factors that would have made it an imperfect venue to serve as a major overnight shelter during the hurricane’s worst days: It has no showers and no kitchen, its parking garage is underground, and it is located right off Interstate 69, which suffered major flooding. Significantly, the building is known to be prone to flooding. Then home to the Houston Rockets, the Compaq Center experienced major flooding during Tropical Storm Allison in 2001, for example. At the time, Lakewood Church occupied a large building in northeast Houston, which it opened up as a shelter for 5,000 people.
In some cases this week, the city of Houston reached out to specific churches and asked them to register as temporary shelters, but Iloff said Lakewood was not asked to do so. (He said the church focused on other efforts, including mobilizing its large volunteer force.) Some other churches who decided to throw open their doors as unofficial impromptu shelters quickly found themselves overwhelmed. When First Baptist Church North Houston opened as a makeshift shelter, they quickly ran out of food and water for the 300 people assembled on their gym floor, and the toilets backed up. Obviously Lakewood is much bigger than First Baptist, but it’s still not as easy as it sounds for a church to simply declare itself a safe, functional shelter. Iloff said Lakewood installed floodgates after it took over the Compaq Center 2003, but was still nervous about the building’s propensity to flood, which would be disastrous if it were filled with people. As of Monday, the water was about a foot away from the floodgates, and much more rain was expected throughout the week.
Even if Lakewood’s decision to focus on less visible flood-relief efforts made sense in the moment, its messaging was disastrous. The church's claim that it was "inaccessible" looked to skeptical readers like a bald-faced lie, easily refuted by a few snapshots. Osteen’s relentlessly chipper Twitter feed, a stream of inspirational quotes, mentioned Harvey only once over the weekend. Osteen tweeted that he would pray for victims, but did not mention making financial or logistical plans to help his suffering city.
Osteen is a “scapegoat” both within Houston and among mainstream evangelical Christians, said Kate Shellnutt, an associate editor at Christianity Today who has been reporting on local churches’ responses to Harvey. (She previously lived in Houston for several years as a reporter for the Houston Chronicle.) “Any criticism you want to lob at Christianity, people see an angle with Joel Osteen,” she said. He’s rich, he’s slick, and and he’s a suspiciously adept fundraiser. He preaches a message of glorified self-help (annoying theologically conservative Christians) that implicitly blames the poor for their troubles (annoying theological progressives). In other words, no one likes Joel Osteen—except the millions of people who do. On Tuesday, the church had changed gears. “Lakewood’s doors are open,” Osteen tweeted. The Houston Chronicle reported that about 50 people had been admitted to register for shelter by Tuesday afternoon, and the church was also accepting formula and diaper donations on behalf of the city. But this felt like too little, too late: the fact remained that while the community had been actively suffering, Lakewood and its wealthy pastor looked indifferent and remote.
Quote:Quote:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/ebolamericana/status/902341741335855104][/url]
Quote: (08-30-2017 10:53 AM)Samseau Wrote:
Quote: (08-30-2017 10:01 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:
Quote: (08-30-2017 03:55 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:
AJ+ is a Quatari propaganda network that promotes the Muslim brotherhood. They are an affiliate of Al-Jazeera which has been openly promoting Muslim Brotherhood extremism. Of course they would jump on this bullshit.
Yes - that tele-evangelical pastor did not open the doors straight away, because he is a money-grubbing bloke, but he did open it after a while.
This is frankly irrelevant in the bigger scale of things - Christianity by and large is one of the most charitable religions in the world - anyone who disputes this does not have his marbles straight. What individual pastors or Christian organisations do is frankly irrelevant. Christianity in fact was 2000 years ago one of the first religions which said THAT EVERY CREATURE IS SACRED AND EVERY LIFE OF WORTH. It was back in the day, when slaves were worth nothing and grave sinners or even slight sinners were stoned.
Fuck AJ+.
For those that don't know where the church is located, it's in Greenway plaza. Interstate 59 was underwater at all exits and onramps. How would anyone had gotten into the church? I also find it hard to believe the immediate street around the church was not flooded, when it has flooded from different storms on several occasions.
Also, they are kind of similar to my church. They send lots of medical ambulances with missionaries around the world. We don't actually keep those at home. If we did, then sure we could rival the Red Cross. How is a church equipped to handle what the largest convention center in the city was not able to handle?
So again, if you needed shelter or had to be rescued by the Coast Guard, why would you want to go to a church? They don't have water bottles on hand, medical staff, police, beds, etc.
This is just another opportunity for typical idiot atheists, Muslims, or others to take the largest church in America down a peg or two in order to make Christianity look like a scam.
There are plenty of reasons to not like that church, this is not one of them.
But couldn't one make the argument that all areas were flooded and yet people still found a way to get to shelter?
Whether or not the Church was accessible shouldn't have been the main point - the Church should have been prepared well in advance of the storm, complete with food, water, and emergency bedding.
In fact, even without preparation the Church should have been able to open their doors right away. Any Church worth it's salt runs a weekly food donation service to the poor, which means the pantries are always full of supplies for poor that come in on Sunday mornings.
Even if most people were not able to reach the Church due to flooding, there should have been a Priest there anyways for whoever could swim or boat to the premises - especially if you have a multi-million dollar budget. From a corporate perspective, this was a major PR fail. From a Christian perspective, it reeks of sinful hypocrisy of claiming to represent the word yet not being prepared for a massive disaster despite having incredible resources.
Even if Joel is not at fault, someone within the Church organization is and ought to be fired for this.
Quote:Quote:
Why should church staff leave their own families behind just to go open up and run the church as a shelter? That's irresponsible for the church to do that. Also no one realized how bad the storm was going to be. That's too much hindsight logic.
Quote:Quote:
Six or eight staff members had remained on site during the flood, and they had been instructed to open the doors to anyone who needed help. “We are open,” Iloff said. “Anyone who comes there, we’ll let in.”
Quote: (08-30-2017 02:59 PM)Number one bummer Wrote:
...
I'm already starting to see a viral conspiracy circulating that the local politicians were privy to the strength of the storm and downplayed it. They were allegedly hoping to avoid mass fleeing which would cause more deaths. I wouldn't be surprised if the media picks up the story to show how Texans hate black people or whatever way they want to spin it.
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