[Agastya]

(01-08-2018 12:13 PM)zatara Wrote:  

This is a terrible philosophy to have. A life without close male friends is an empty life. Even with a healthy relationship, a good family life, and a productive job every man still needs good male friends as well. Its not either/or - its completely possible to have all of these at the same time.

If your current social circle isn't suiting your lifestyle, or isn't trustworthy, you should absolutely drop them. But anyone finding themselves in a situation when they have no close friends should immediately work to fix that.

Take up a suitable hobby, or join a sports team, and get out there and make new friends of a similar mindset. Its not hard, and is incredibly rewarding emotionally, psychologically and socially.

I agree that a life completely without male friends would be awful. Without my best friends, my life would have been an impoverished shell. I will always cherish my childhood buddies for the memories they gave me.

But I think there also comes a point where you kind of grow up and move on. I have noticed some of them becoming very bitter and negative to be around, while others made lifestyle choices that I don't really agree with. I don't enjoy their company as much (some of them) so I don't feel bad for cutting lots of them off.

It's a weird situation to say the least...never thought I'd ever feel this way about my friends, but here I am.

[General Mayhem]

This subject came up when I was visiting my closest friend over the holidays. Not the subject of having no friends but just how hard it is to find good friends. Good friends are a rare thing. It's a combination of personalities that mesh well and shared interests.

This guy is basically my brother. We never went to school together but worked a manual labor job together and became tight pretty much instantly. We spent a ton of time together back then working, lifting, fishing, and chasing pussy. But then we grew up and ended up in different branches of the military.

Once we were both off on our own I didn't really have any expectation for how the friendship would continue. I thought we might drift apart like people do but that hasn't been the case. We talk spontaneously a few times a year. Usually talk on the phone for an hour or so and then nothing until the next time. I think it's better this way than using social media and texting like a bunch of girls would do. Last year I was the best man in his wedding and the godfather of his firstborn son. We will most likely retire and end up living fairly close to each other in our home state and pick up where we left off, bullshitting, lifting, fishing, etc. Only then as old men and not young men. That's a once in a lifetime friendship though in my estimation.

In my opinion this arrangement is about as good as it gets for men. We are all going to go off and do our own things naturally. As long as you do what you need to do to maintain the friendship everything works out and when you see each other you pick up right where you left off.

My friends from college are nowhere near that caliber. Most of them have at least one debilitating character flaw, they are lazy, lower T, and we share none of the same interests. That makes it hard for me to even want to maintain friendships. Most of the time when we hang out it's because my girl sets something up otherwise I wouldn't. It would be a different story if the guys were higher caliber or we had things we liked to do together.

Drinking together isn't good enough a shared interest. At least not for me. One of the last things I want to do anymore is get together with them and go out to one of the bars in the city and talk about our jobs. To me that just detracts from the amount of time I have to spend on the things that really interest me. Things might be different if any of them lifted, hunted, fished, worked on cars, whatever.

If you are the kind of guy who is into more mainstream shit like sports, movies, etc. Friendship I image would be easier. There are a lot more guys who are into that shit. But for the kind of men who gather here it's more difficult just because your interests are so different.

[nomadbrah]

(01-08-2018 01:32 PM)Agastya Wrote:  

(01-08-2018 12:13 PM)zatara Wrote:  

This is a terrible philosophy to have. A life without close male friends is an empty life. Even with a healthy relationship, a good family life, and a productive job every man still needs good male friends as well. Its not either/or - its completely possible to have all of these at the same time.

If your current social circle isn't suiting your lifestyle, or isn't trustworthy, you should absolutely drop them. But anyone finding themselves in a situation when they have no close friends should immediately work to fix that.

Take up a suitable hobby, or join a sports team, and get out there and make new friends of a similar mindset. Its not hard, and is incredibly rewarding emotionally, psychologically and socially.

I agree that a life completely without male friends would be awful. Without my best friends, my life would have been an impoverished shell. I will always cherish my childhood buddies for the memories they gave me.

But I think there also comes a point where you kind of grow up and move on. I have noticed some of them becoming very bitter and negative to be around, while others made lifestyle choices that I don't really agree with. I don't enjoy their company as much (some of them) so I don't feel bad for cutting lots of them off.

It's a weird situation to say the least...never thought I'd ever feel this way about my friends, but here I am.

I don't know you, but I would say be a little wary when you begin to lose old male friends while in a relationship. Things may not be all that they seem.

Let's put it this way, I don't know a single person I knew at 22 who is still with their then girlfriend. I know plenty who maintained friendships for +10 years since then. It's far easier to find a new girlfriend or even wife than to find blood brothers as you age.

Just a thought.

[Delta]

^The thing you have to keep in mind is that girlfriends are selected with *much* more scrutiny than male friends. My girlfriends have all been headed down a very good path in life, and free of any serious detrimental habits. The same cannot be said for all of my friends.

So when presented with the option of tagging along with my buddies as they drop triple figures at the bar and puke in a bush at 3am, or chilling with my girlfriend and getting a good night's sleep, which is the smarter choice?

I still try to stay in contact with my friends even if they've developed some unsavory traits, but having a girlfriend gives me another out and leads to me drifting apart from them. It sounds like Agastya is describing something similar.

[Agastya]

(01-08-2018 07:22 PM)Delta Wrote:  

^The thing you have to keep in mind is that girlfriends are selected with *much* more scrutiny than male friends. My girlfriends have all been headed down a very good path in life, and free of any serious detrimental habits. The same cannot be said for all of my friends.

So when presented with the option of tagging along with my buddies as they drop triple figures at the bar and puke in a bush at 3am, or chilling with my girlfriend and getting a good night's sleep, which is the smarter choice?

I still try to stay in contact with my friends even if they've developed some unsavory traits, but having a girlfriend gives me another out and leads to me drifting apart from them. It sounds like Agastya is describing something similar.

Pretty much this. I could either spend my free time doing the following:

- Listen to my old buddy brag about having sex with a legit 2/10 and listen to another friend ramble about things none of us care about. Drink unhealthy amounts in an attempt to recreate the old days, smoke enough weed to dissolve my brain cells, and talk about people we knew in high school who I haven't seen in five years --

-- Or spend my time writing (lifelong passion), doing BJJ/exercising, helping out around the house, or kicking it with my GF (having sex, having food cooked for me, building a meaningful bond with a girl for the first time in my life).

I agree, I banged twenty-two women before I met my GF, there is no way I would have stayed with her had she been anything less than a solid person. Sure she has her problems, but the positives highly outweigh the negatives. I cannot say the same for my friends. There may be a couple who remain solid, but my huge group of yesteryears is probably not long for this earth.

It definitely is sad. Never in a million years did I ever think I would feel this way about the guys I've known my entire life. But it does seem like an inexorable process, and on the bright side, it opens up a ton of time for self improvement.

[zatara]

^^ Delta/Agastya just because you have shitty friends now doesn't mean you need to stick with them and swear off friendship forevermore. Imagine if someone had a thread here justifying staying with a terrible girlfriend because they believe all relationships are bad - they'd be laughed off the forum. Its the same thing.

Get out there and make new, better male friends. Its not hard. You should be applying similar logic selecting new male friends as you age as you would selecting your girlfriend - looking for a stable personality, someone with shared interests, someone you can trust, someone you can have fun with etc.

[ProfessorCumbledore]

(01-08-2018 12:13 PM)zatara Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 12:26 AM)bgbusiness Wrote:  

For some short period of time, (6months or even 2 years), I don't see anything wrong with having no friends.
Have some acquaintance, but when you are focusing so much on yourself, I feel like you don't really need friends...
Maybe have some wings to go out, but that's it.

Like others have said, I agree that it's better to be alone than being in a social circle that you don't even like.

People change, situations change, feelings changes, life change and things change.
I don't try to hold on to the people from the past. It is what it is. If I want a better high quality social circle, I would have to become higher value so that I attract like minded individuals.

Idk what op wants...but that's just my 2cents.

Some quotes that I personally resonate with:
1. Make money, not friends.
2. Less people, less bullshit
3. Don’t waste your time chasing the buttleflies, mend your garden and the butterflies will come.
4. Eagles fly alone, pigeons flock together.
5. I know what I bring to the table, so I am not afraid to eat alone.

This is a terrible philosophy to have. A life without close male friends is an empty life. Even with a healthy relationship, a good family life, and a productive job every man still needs good male friends as well. Its not either/or - its completely possible to have all of these at the same time.

If your current social circle isn't suiting your lifestyle, or isn't trustworthy, you should absolutely drop them. But anyone finding themselves in a situation when they have no close friends should immediately work to fix that.

Take up a suitable hobby, or join a sports team, and get out there and make new friends of a similar mindset. Its not hard, and is incredibly rewarding emotionally, psychologically and socially.

Agreed. Many men I knew who took this lone wolf, "I don't need anybody else" mindset into their 30s and 40s just ended up lost with no core support group; some of them declare loyalty to their family and no one else, but many times that family falls apart from divorce or shitty kids or whatever, and the man is all alone once again, with not even a buddy's couch to sleep on cause he cut them all off.

Quote:

4. Eagles fly alone, pigeons flock together.

This in my opinion is kind of condescending and could even be a self-defense mechanism. I could say a bunch of cliches proving the opposite point. Lions hunt together. Wolves travel in packs. Even special ops military guys always operate in teams.

You're not weak if you seek meaningful relationships.

You're human.

[Easy_C]

To follow onto this thread, here's a few good avenues for non-work contacts.

• Fraternal Organizations like the Knights of Columbus, Rotary, Eagle Lodges, etc.
• For vets, VFW, MOAA, or American Legion. Full of old farts who get together to drink but you can find some good old-school redpill mentors in these places.
• Shared interest and hobby groups. Online venues have already been suggested, but try going into shops that cater to your interests and asking the staff. They're usually plugged into those circles and if you're lucky the store will host/sponsor meetups.
• Get a motorcycle and join a riding club....NOT a "motorcycle club" unless you're hardcore. The distinction is very important. RC's are just casual weekend groups, MC's are the hardcore "biker lifestyle".
  

[Cyr]

A lot of the guys in this thread have been too quick to write their friends off.
In most cases, even if a friend is 'blue-pill', it doesn't make sense to cut them off. Or, if you think you want to, do it in a way that doesn't burn bridges - its likely that if you're honest with yourself, you will regret it in the future.
Of course, if you have a friend that is seriously dragging you down, or constantly guilt tripping you, it makes sense to spend less time with that person. But old friends are one of the best things in life. You should think long and hard before throwing that away.

[LeeEnfield303]

A life without close male friends is bad. A life spent compromising your principles to acquire male friends is much worse.

[ShotgunUppercuts]

Knowledge.

[Razors Edge]

(01-02-2018 04:50 PM)The Alpha Virgin Wrote:  

(01-02-2018 03:41 PM)Razors Edge Wrote:  

The mates you grew up with are the most important... always there. When you all get together you always have a blast and it's like you never left.. They will be friends for life and you can't put a price on that. Cut them off and your own peril.

When you travel you make new friends..but they come and go.

I believe it seldom is that way. If those same friends you grew up with are stuck in mediocrity and blue pilling - how are you gonna be able to relate to them as you walk higher up on the mountains of truth?

My old mates I grew up with are stuck with the Average Joe lifestyle and are mostly holding blue pill beliefs. None of them really want to travel (so therefore they're all stuck in my hometown while I've moved), improve themselves or even at least try and become an interesting intellectual who just read a lot of books and could tell me stuff they've read about.

I believe that to be the case for most guys. Most guys don't wanna improve, they pretty much just wanna be stuck in mediocrity and eat soy all day.

Most guys I've met haven't been interested in making an effort to improve themselves and therefore I've been forced to make new friends and connections with guys who actually wants to do that and who are better than me in some areas.

Had I spent more time around my old friends I grew up with, I'd just been more of a loser, just like them.

i judge my mates on if they are good blokes or not... i'm not gona cut a mate off because he chooses to stay in a shit city and sit on a couch and watch football... that doesn't make him a shit bloke or a lesser person...that's his choice and it makes him happy...i'm happy for any mate that is happy doing whatever makes them happy.

I walk my own path but good mates/good people are for life unless they are cunts.

[bgbusiness]

It seems like most of the people are not agreeing with my way of living and that's totally fine.
Everybody has their own opinion and way of living.

What I am saying is that if you want true success and become extremely successful in 30s, 40s and 50s, you should give up on everything in 20s. No relationships, no friends. Yeah, maybe one or two acquaintances.
Maybe it is sacrificing too much of your life and you want to drink your beer with your friends after 9-5, that's totally fine with me.

However, if you want that 10mil, 100mil net worth and that's what you want, you should be willing to give up A LOT. It can be lonely at the top when you don't have a lot of friends because you didn't focus on your social life. It all comes down to decisions. What am I wiling to sacrifice? There is no balance between work and life. I am talking about the ultra entrepreneurial mindset. Do you guys think Elon Musk, Bill Gates or Warren Buffett were chilling and not being productive in 20s? I doubt it. They still don't have social life and they probably don't want it anyway. You can't catch two rabbits at once.

Check this video of Gary V out. His net worth is close to 200 mil.

Just remember that the more friends you have, the more common you appeal and the more common you become. It takes nothing to join the crowd, but everything to stand alone. It's better to be on your path alone than to follow the crowd and go to the wrong direction.

AGAIN, if you don't want this type of life style and want to live 9-5, that's totally fine with me. However, that's not what I am getting at.

I stated in my previous comment that it's okay for short period of time to not have friends when focusing on yourself, but I guess I needed to elaborate on that part.

[Hazaer]

Good suggestions in this thread, specially for guys out of uni and finding themselves working in a new city.

Thing is people in school or uni are often friends with people that they don't really have common interests with, just because they don't want to be the odd guy with no friends. So, it is unavoidable that they drift apart after their studies. You can be good friends with decent guys who choose to sit on the couch watching football but unless you are doing it together with him, there really is nothing common to hang out for. A drink once in a while is probably the best extent of that friendship.

Agree with previous posters that males bond better with shared activities, so there has to be some alignment of interests to forge close friendships and something to talk about. But with people travelling for work, it can still be hard unless you make an effort to come back to your home city to roll with your homies.

And yeah once a friend is in a relationship, his lifestyle change is bound to diverge quite a bit from yours no matter how red pill he might be. If he is still putting in the effort to meet up, the best solution is to keep the partner out of these meet ups. Going out late and getting drunk is normally out of the question. But its still cringeworthy seeing how some guys who sprout red pill thoughts on first meeting suddenly turn into wusses when their girlfriend is with them. Total loss of frame even with their interaction with other guys which was much better when she was not around to the point that the girlfriend is egging him on to be more gregarious.

[Teep]

My experience is most (American) guys have ZERO interest in making new friends. I really think there's a pandemic of anti-social behavior...borderline sociopathy frankly...in our society thats entirely ignored.

Just to give an example, I joined up with a Muay Thai school here a few months ago. Multiple times I've suggested after practice that we all hang out, get beers or whatever. Zero interest.

I think you can chalk it up to a few factors. Social media, gaming, porn, etc. Social skills have devolved. The younger generation cant even fucking talk on the phone comfortably these days.

It's sad. But the fraternity that used to exist amongst men in times past has all but died.

[nek]

(01-12-2018 11:52 PM)Teep Wrote:  

My experience is most (American) guys have ZERO interest in making new friends. I really think there's a pandemic of anti-social behavior...borderline sociopathy frankly...in our society thats entirely ignored.

Just to give an example, I joined up with a Muay Thai school here a few months ago. Multiple times I've suggested after practice that we all hang out, get beers or whatever. Zero interest.

I think you can chalk it up to a few factors. Social media, gaming, porn, etc. Social skills have devolved. The younger generation cant even fucking talk on the phone comfortably these days.

It's sad. But the fraternity that used to exist amongst men in times past has all but died.

Agreed, it's amazing the lack of interest in having friendships. I just want to point out as another factor Netflix/streaming/binge watching. This has had a great effect too.

[Hazaer]

(01-12-2018 11:52 PM)Teep Wrote:  

My experience is most (American) guys have ZERO interest in making new friends. I really think there's a pandemic of anti-social behavior...borderline sociopathy frankly...in our society thats entirely ignored.

Just to give an example, I joined up with a Muay Thai school here a few months ago. Multiple times I've suggested after practice that we all hang out, get beers or whatever. Zero interest.

I think you can chalk it up to a few factors. Social media, gaming, porn, etc. Social skills have devolved. The younger generation cant even fucking talk on the phone comfortably these days.

It's sad. But the fraternity that used to exist amongst men in times past has all but died.

So true man. I struggle to understand how some guys (in Australia too) can sit around going through their facebook pages for hours and then complain about not having dates/girlfriends but if you were to suggest hanging out for some drinks and make new friends, they back out often at the last minute (over time these broken promises means they can't even be a friend at all). These guys bring no energy to the planning of anything and weigh other people down with their insecurities which they put no effort to overcome. Indeed, laziness (to even doing fun stuff) is often the hallmark of failure in all spheres of life though this is one of the easiest things to improve one's inner game. Having had the experience of being around with some of these guys and driving them to do things, I have come to realize that it is like a toxic relationship, the quicker one distances himself from these people, the better.

In this respect I find girls much better. They are definitely more social and always make up things to look forward to and encourage and excite each other, may it be a weekend out or cooking a meal at home. Even when they are on their phones, they share information way more. Most times, having a mixed social circle is better to actually getting things done in terms of planning and executing stuff while exhibiting more social value to others.

[Teep]

^^Yea, and I think it's mainly an American (or perhaps Anglo) phenomenon.

It's funny because Americans often whine about other nationalities being rude. On the surface level, they can appear to be. But it's called being REAL. People are meant to walk around with a perma-smile on their face. It's meaningless, superficial friendliness here.

I have a euro father, and remember him being appalled by the anti-social behavior in the States. Ie..Neighbors not inviting each other over for dinner.

Honestly, as soon as I'm sorted out financially, it's off to greener pastures.

[nomadbrah]

(01-12-2018 07:03 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  

A life without close male friends is bad. A life spent compromising your principles to acquire male friends is much worse.

They are not friends if you have to compromise principles.

Sympathy and trust are the two cores in friendship imo. With sympathy comes both respect and acceptance of differences, but also the willingness to deal a harsh truth if it is to your friend's benefit. Do you care to tell such truths to people you are not sympathetic to?

Sympathy growns naturally from shared adversity. This is why adversity such as military service often creates unbreakable bonds. Even if people are completely different. For most people, chasing girls together, getting in a fight, all the normal youth experiences shared.

Now, as an adult, you're less likely to be in these kind of situations organically to be build sympathy.

Two choices, either join something which creates adversity, sports team, volunteer work or find people who you are sympathetic about based on their principles and values.

This is my experience meeting people in the self employed, traveller, world. Almost always I am sympathetic towards them, because we share values and beliefs.

I think that's the core for making friends as an adult, they have to be based on mutual shared principles, more than shared experience.

[zatara]

(01-12-2018 09:16 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  

What I am saying is that if you want true success and become extremely successful in 30s, 40s and 50s, you should give up on everything in 20s. No relationships, no friends.

Do you guys think Elon Musk, Bill Gates or Warren Buffett were chilling and not being productive in 20s? I doubt it. They still don't have social life and they probably don't want it anyway. You can't catch two rabbits at once.

This is MGTOW trash used to justify giving up on life. Its completely possible to be wildly professionally successful and to still have girlfriends and male friends. The vast majority of successful men have good social skills, which requires having an active social life. Even your specific named examples of successful men disagree completely with you:

Elon Musk has five sons and has had two wives. He got married at age 29, so was clearly in relationships in his 20s. He spends 6 hours a day on "personal time" by his own admittance. Yet hes still one of the most successful men on the planet.

Bill Gates has gone on record saying maintaining friendships is crucial to your life. To quote him directly: ""Some friends do bring out the best in you," the Microsoft co-founder says, "and so it's good to invest in those friendships." And on having a relationship: " It’s really through Melinda and seeing other people I realized, okay, it’s really worth the investment to have those people, as you’re always there to help them and vice versa."

Warren Buffet got married at age 22. He had 3 kids within the next 5 years, before he turned 28. He was able to become one of the richest men on the planet while maintaining a successful marriage for 52 years, and raising 3 young children in his 20s.

Not to mention that spending a decade+ of your life without relationships or friends just sounds absolutely miserable. Its also going to fuck you up mentally. Good luck trying to re-assimilate into society after that.

[3extra]

Gary Vaynerchuk produces videos called "A Day in the Life of Gary Vaynerchuk" and uploads them onto the internet.

Christ. It really must be lonely "at the top".

[greekgod]

(01-13-2018 10:43 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 09:16 PM)bgbusiness Wrote:  

What I am saying is that if you want true success and become extremely successful in 30s, 40s and 50s, you should give up on everything in 20s. No relationships, no friends.

Do you guys think Elon Musk, Bill Gates or Warren Buffett were chilling and not being productive in 20s? I doubt it. They still don't have social life and they probably don't want it anyway. You can't catch two rabbits at once.

This is MGTOW trash used to justify giving up on life. Its completely possible to be wildly professionally successful and to still have girlfriends and male friends. The vast majority of successful men have good social skills, which requires having an active social life. Even your specific named examples of successful men disagree completely with you:

Elon Musk has five sons and has had two wives. He got married at age 29, so was clearly in relationships in his 20s. He spends 6 hours a day on "personal time" by his own admittance. Yet hes still one of the most successful men on the planet.

Bill Gates has gone on record saying maintaining friendships is crucial to your life. To quote him directly: ""Some friends do bring out the best in you," the Microsoft co-founder says, "and so it's good to invest in those friendships." And on having a relationship: " It’s really through Melinda and seeing other people I realized, okay, it’s really worth the investment to have those people, as you’re always there to help them and vice versa."

Warren Buffet got married at age 22. He had 3 kids within the next 5 years, before he turned 28. He was able to become one of the richest men on the planet while maintaining a successful marriage for 52 years, and raising 3 young children in his 20s.

Not to mention that spending a decade+ of your life without relationships or friends just sounds absolutely miserable. Its also going to fuck you up mentally. Good luck trying to re-assimilate into society after that.

^the Tony stark trope of work non stop with a militant schedule filled from 5 am to 11 PM of numerous activities is A first class ticket to burnout, isolation, and disappointment. I’m speaking from first hand experience.

WSP and other voices say if you’re not liquid with $1MM by 30, you’re a failure. Ok, one way to look at it and admirable effort.

Your social skills are your most important tool to understanding demand, market preferences and hidden opportunity. I think it was Bill Gates that was at a party and him and Steve Balmer came up with an idea on a cocktail napkin. They left the PARTY and worked on it at their office until sunrise. Now imagine they were shunning all social experiences that conversation would have never happened.

There is value in isolation as it magnifies and clarifies. But prolonged can lead to analysis by paralysis.

Relationships ground and motivate you, important to remember. If you’re in bad relationships, that’s a different story. Burn that deadwood but power and revenue doesn’t exist in a vacuum

[Teep]

Yea I think it's bit crazy to suggest there's any link between success and being a lone wolf.

Successful people are by definition influencers. You're not going to build a $10 million+ company without being able to network, persuade, charm,etc..The solopreneur shtick pushed by online marketers is just lalaland. Most of them are broke so there's that...

[nomadbrah]

To be fair, you don't need friends as such to be sociable and part of networks. I suppose it's a cultural difference in what you consider friends. The word doesn't mean the same to everyone.

[Teep]

(01-13-2018 01:22 PM)3extra Wrote:  

Gary Vaynerchuk produces videos called "A Day in the Life of Gary Vaynerchuk" and uploads them onto the internet.

Christ. It really must be lonely "at the top".

(((Gary Vee))) likes to meme a lot about hard work. The fact is he inherited a very successful wine business from his family. His accomplishments are suspect imo.