[Jack_Smith]

BACKGROUND 54 yo single dad and businessman with primary custody of three teenage boys and 70+ yo parents under same roof. Won full custody in hi conflict divorce 10+ years ago. Brought parents under roof so they could age independently, i.e no old folks home. Love women, but the Ex was a train-wreck, and dating even within 10 years of my age cohort was a largely dismal experience - think Brady Bunch aspirational, post wall, fat ass soccer mom's with attitude. Key learning was that I have ZERO interest in traditional dating. No movies, dinners, none of that shit. Done. Cured by the Ex. So I focused on business; raised my kids; took care of my fam; got in shape (225 bench for reps; 6'; 200# at 15% body fat)

BACK IN ACTION About a year ago I got turned out by one of my sons' teachers. She hit me up, we met up, and it has been on since. 24 yo HB7. Genius chemistry. I have had some fun women in the sack, always preferred quality fucking to the "hunt." This girl is multi-orgasmic in every port. Love it. Crazy about her. Took a "lover" vs "boyfriend" mindset from the beginning. Split bills (to the extent she can contribute), relationship totally focused on sex (dating after fucking), etc. We've never been to the movies or ice cream or any of that stupid shit, although we do go out to eat and have been away for a couple weekends. Great times together. Really dig her. Totally non needy. Has her own shit going on. Never initiated "the talk." Turns out she has this cuck boyfriend, which I am fine with. Bad news is, I really dig her, she runs hot and cold (total player chick), and I caught oneitis.

OBJECTIVE I want to get another FWB/FB or 3 in a steady rotation, just to take the edge off Girl #1's hand with me, for my sanity, and, frankly, cause life's fuckin' short.

CHALLENGE(S) I've got near zero time, what with business, fam, pops and all, and frankly, never had any game to speak of. Always been a relationship/sex guy vs. a notch count guy. Lifetime ~ 20. This will sound bad, but I have turned down more women than I have fucked. Never had to hunt. Decent looking (8?), even at 50; definitely not a stunner.

I also have ZERO fuckin interest in night game, night clubs, bar sluts, dumbasses, and etc. And I am spoiled because I have been fucking the shit out a girl half my age, and want more of that. Also, still not interested in any form of traditional dating. Want to fuck first, just like with Girl #1, then build from there. Also, and lastly, cannot pull to my house, as it is crowded and inappropriate fam environment for that sort of shit.

MODEL - Tinder/Bumble to drinks at a hotel bar; pull to my hotel room; fuck to multiple orgasms; rinse and repeat.

STATUS I have been on it for about 3 weeks. Took a couple weeks to figure out getting Tinder matches, and then how to work the matches through to a date. Had the first date Friday night. (First date date, i.e. not with wife, in 20+ years) Great chick. Dug her. Smart as fuck (my type). Shiznit together. Solid 7/8. 37. Exotic Eastern European type. Got the public kiss close in the middle of the street in front of the hotel to much hooting from onlookers, but failed to pull. She didn't say "no;" but like a bitch, I didn't press hard (enough), and was frankly a little too beat by that point Friday night to really go hard. Anyway, this model will work.

THE PROBLEM I've got more action in my pipeline than I have ever had in my life and than I know how to qualify and handle properly to achieve my objectives. (I understand that this is a highbrow problem.) I have limited time; really just 2 of 3 weekends plus MAYBE one night during the week, if I push it, to play. I already have Girl #1 lined up for a chunk of that. I've got Girl #2 in play + Girl #3 set-up for cocktails after work this coming week; both moved off of Tinder. + ANOTHER 8 that are either matched or early stage chat, but still on Tinder. I decided to pause/stall 5 because of distance, desirability, etc. and focus on the top 3. So I narrowed down to the top 6 girls total to net 3 ongoing fucks.... Still pressed for time...

QUESTIONS

1) Should I be going super hard for a first date lay, or should I be OK with a multi-date lay? The latter seems OK, given that I want to convert each to an ongoing thing, but I hate the idea of dating...

2) If I go on multiple dates, as I must with at least Girl #2, how do I do that while NOT embedding that dating mindset, i.e. creating an expectation of dating vs fucking, or even an expectation of dating AND fucking? I just want to fuck. Eat afterwards. " Hangout. "Date" if/when I feel like it.

3) Would a multi-date model be better given my objective of establishing an ongoing thing with each girl? I have read about some guys who put a hard stop on a first date at an hour; never try to close on D1...

4) Any suggestions on screening questions for FWB/FB propensity?

5) Given my limited time, it would take four or five weeks just to work one pass through my existing backlog of chicks. What is the best way to keep the best one's in play for a couple weeks while they wait? Tell them I am traveling? Should I move them off of Tinder? Is there some known best practice for keeping them alive while they wait?

[polar]

Disclaimer: I am much younger than you. I didn't have time to write a short post so I wrote a long one composed of my musings.

Oneitis: correct thinking that you need other women, but they should be as attractive / pleasing to you in order to fix your thing with the teacher. Start telling her to do stuff for you, as simple as "pour me some water while you're up" or "grab me/us X from the store" to "wear X tomorrow, buy (sex toy), etc." Her going halfsies alone doesn't affect her at an emotional level. Don't respond to her texts for twice as long as she takes, on average.

I attribute her "hot-cold" attitude to 1) familiarity and boredom, 2) overall comfort at home but you aren't a long term option. You could also probably ratchet things up into Shades of Gray world (kinky sex, outdoors, toys, etc.) but you might also end up with a crazy clinger on your hands.

I'm assuming your financials are in order, you can swing the "high-flying businessman" archetype? If you're not worried about losing leads or being able to replenish, then amp up your demands and see which ones stick around. ie tell them to show up in a dress and heels, send you pics, etc. It will filter for those who have the highest interest levels. You don't want to take tire kickers on dates anyway.

If you get more of them through your funnel and to the date step, then to the bed step, you'll just kick the quantity problem down the road, and it'll take you more time to manage it then. Don't worry about this for now, you'll figure this out for yourself. It's a pleasant mistake to make, so long as you don't sacrifice what makes you great to begin with and got you there (work, sleep, gym).

To keep lukewarm leads warm use picture texts. Read up Krauser on text game and picture texts. But also, stop opening so many of them online, past a week from open to first date means leads go cold and it might be better to let them go cold and reopen in a month - "sorry, crazy with the business travel..." rather than trying to keep the plate spinning the whole time.

If your target market is 20s and early 30s, figure out what the ones that bite want from you or see in you. About a third won't be open to large age gap at all, a third won't care, a third will seek it. (Look at Giovonny's posts for some of the mentality.) With those who are interested - why? Are you the older wiser rich guy who they think can give them a golden ticket? (are you willing to shell out for tix to events for arm candy, or not interested?) Are you the badass biker? Do you still have the body of a pro bodybuilder? Figure it out and amplify accordingly. Think about projecting 50 shades of gray stuff.

Try to be more in control of time during the dates. Imply subtly before meets that you're a busy man, wheeling and dealing. If you find first date pulls don't work well, try doing a first date for drinks and a quick kiss somewhere, but keep it short, and end on your terms. Second date, propose the optimal logistics and work from there.

Schedule 3+ first dates back to back (different places...). 1h each. They will smell pussy on you, and if one goes really well you can flake on the others. "Urgent client meeting, hope you understand. Hate having to reschedule". Have an excuse ready to go to cut bad ones short. Just don't book them all at the same venue

How to avoid being placed in the boyfriend bucket? Don't be afraid to escalate and be bold, not pushy or needy, with making moves. If at first you fail, try again five minutes later. Escalate physically, deny verbally. ("who has a hand up your dress, me? Never, I'm a gentleman. I don't kiss until marriage")

You sound like a natural for Seeking Arrangement game (note: not p4p, we do not encourage or discuss that here). Look at DeepDiver's posts if that's your thing. In particular, look at logistics such as using a phone app to book a last minute room.

Also look at the blog of Blackdragon, who may or may not be up your alley (his old content was good, not sure these days). He's an older guy who is family-centric but has kept rotations of younger women.

Above all, re-prioritize yourself and your goals. This will fix your oneitis and your quantity problem once you get the fucking around out of your system.

[Jack_Smith]

...

First and foremost, thanks, brother! Much appreciated. Couple follow-ups.

Quote:

Disclaimer: I am much younger than you. I didn't have time to write a short post so I wrote a long one composed of my musings.

At 40, I would have agreed with you. At 50+, I can assure you with absolute certainty that a decade is a BLINK. Literally. Yesterday I was changing diapers. Today paying tuition... The good news is that at my age I can out squat, out earn, out think, and out fuck nearly every fuckin Millenial beard boy. It's a joy to which you may look forward!

Quote:

Oneitis: correct thinking that you need other women, but they should be as attractive / pleasing to you in order to fix your thing with the teacher.

Spot on; and right to the core of my challenge. The sex with Teach is best of class. We built this together over months. The intimacy is great, too, which I enjoy/want. Can't get that in an ONS or a FB. So my takeaway is that I am going to need to consistently fuck several girls over time in order to assess potential to "Match Teach," as it were, and end up with one or two keepers of the same or higher caliber.

Quote:

Start telling her to do stuff for you, as simple as "pour me some water while you're up" or "grab me/us X from the store" to "wear X tomorrow, buy (sex toy), etc." Her going halfsies alone doesn't affect her at an emotional level. Don't respond to her texts for twice as long as she takes, on average.

I attribute her "hot-cold" attitude to 1) familiarity and boredom, 2) overall comfort at home but you aren't a long term option. You could also probably ratchet things up into Shades of Gray world (kinky sex, outdoors, toys, etc.) but you might also end up with a crazy clinger on your hands.

Heard. She's a handful to manage. The issue is not boredom. I am the boredom relief. I know this because the sex/adventurousness/kink has been steadily escalating for over 6 months now. Still going strong. Every time. We're already heavy into the "rough" territory, outdoors, public, exhibitionism, toys, and discussing plenty more. When we are together, she is compliant. Dresses for me, follows instructions, cooks for me, gives me occasional little gifts; etc. More importantly, the sexual response and true attraction is 10/10. Also the intimacy; particularly between fucks, is strong. And she tells me crazy ass, and recently increasingly crazy ass, shit. "I love you, so so much." "That pussy is all yours." And much much more. All fine, and I get heat of the moment; etc. Here's the problem.

After we are together, fucking non-stop for a weekend, that sexual energy/attraction continues into the week. Sexting and etc. Mon/Tues. She'll inevitably tell me some shit like "I need more." "I crave that dick." Whatever. I'm down. I hit her with a date to meetup next weekend. About 30% of the time, she goes dark for 18-24 hours; then declines. Never an explanation or excuse. After that she will typically reach back with some non-sexual type shit, friend talk or romantic talk, to which I will either not respond or play off short. Then it's dark over the weekend. This is mutual. Often she will not reach out, but sometimes she does. I never hit her up or respond until Sunday night earliest. The other 70% she is down and flexes to my schedule. And comes ready to play hard.

The challenge is emotional. Specifically, that I am feeling taken for granted. There is this disconnect between what she says and what she does. And you're right, I feel like she is definitely insufficiently invested, even though she is doing all the right shit when we are together. It just feels like there is no amount of pulling back, and I have pulled back for 3-4 weeks, that is sufficient. She's the "free spirited adventuress" archetype, btw. Eats men for lunch. Never been true to a man, but always pretends to be a monagamist. Valentines gifts/flowers from multiple men; etc.

Not sure how to play her forward, but she pulled that shit last week and I set up G2 for Friday, G3 for this week sometime, a retread (G4) sort of on call, and the rest of the bullpen (4 screened, solid, and opened, but still in Tinder). Sunday afternoon, I got that "Miss you" text. (Didn't respond twice prior when she pinged me.) Called BS. Got this elaborate apology/rant/blahblah. Haven't set a next date with her.

Thoughts on next steps with Teach?

BTW, followed up with G2 last night. Never got her digits pre-meetup and forgot to ask when we were out. This morning she texted me and was blowing up my phone for a bit. Definitely down for more... It's nice to hear. She's much more accomplished and better looking than Teach. Not quite feeling her 100%, though...

Quote:

I'm assuming your financials are in order, you can swing the "high-flying businessman" archetype? If you're not worried about losing leads or being able to replenish, then amp up your demands and see which ones stick around. ie tell them to show up in a dress and heels, send you pics, etc. It will filter for those who have the highest interest levels. You don't want to take tire kickers on dates anyway.

If you get more of them through your funnel and to the date step, then to the bed step, you'll just kick the quantity problem down the road, and it'll take you more time to manage it then. Don't worry about this for now, you'll figure this out for yourself. It's a pleasant mistake to make, so long as you don't sacrifice what makes you great to begin with and got you there (work, sleep, gym).

Heard. Spot on.

Quote:

To keep lukewarm leads warm use picture texts. Read up Krauser on text game and picture texts. But also, stop opening so many of them online, past a week from open to first date means leads go cold and it might be better to let them go cold and reopen in a month - "sorry, crazy with the business travel..." rather than trying to keep the plate spinning the whole time.

Heard. Didn't mean to open so many. I had run the well dry when Teach blew me off for the weekend (she had lured me in with her "I want more" BS) and G2 was momentarily dark (out of the country, as it turns out). I rebooted Tinder and launched Bumble and three days later I was like WTF? I have an abundance "problem"?!?

Quote:

If your target market is 20s and early 30s, figure out what the ones that bite want from you or see in you. About a third won't be open to large age gap at all, a third won't care, a third will seek it. (Look at Giovonny's posts for some of the mentality.) With those who are interested - why? Are you the older wiser rich guy who they think can give them a golden ticket? (are you willing to shell out for tix to events for arm candy, or not interested?) Are you the badass biker? Do you still have the body of a pro bodybuilder? Figure it out and amplify accordingly. Think about projecting 50 shades of gray stuff.

I have a history of pulling girls with CLEAR Daddy issues. My Ex, Teach, and at least a couple prior GFs fit that profile. I get it (now), like it, get what they need, and am down with these girls (to a point). Openly advertise this, playfully, in my bio. G2 (37) and others that have responded to that same bio DO NOT fit that profile. As far as I can tell, Millenial men are largely bearded feminist faggots who are not fucking their girls properly and are clueless as to how women actually behave. So Teach tells me. What woman wouldn't want a man that can out think, out fuck, and out earn her boyfriend? Teach also tells me that DILF hunting is a thing with her friends. They are not gold digging per se, but look, at 50+ my lifestyle is just way better than what 99% of those cucked beard boys can afford. There also seems to be a strong response to sexual dominance. So now that I have blathered on a bit, here's what I believe to be the bottom line. My Target Girls are attracted to -

• Strong Dad
• Sexual Dominance / Leadership
• Shit Togetherness (Financial, Fitness, Lifestyle, et al)
  

Which I articulate as "Single Business Dad" or something to that effect. So how might I amplify that?

Quote:

Try to be more in control of time during the dates. Imply subtly before meets that you're a busy man, wheeling and dealing. If you find first date pulls don't work well, try doing a first date for drinks and a quick kiss somewhere, but keep it short, and end on your terms. Second date, propose the optimal logistics and work from there.

Schedule 3+ first dates back to back (different places...). 1h each. They will smell pussy on you, and if one goes really well you can flake on the others. "Urgent client meeting, hope you understand. Hate having to reschedule". Have an excuse ready to go to cut bad ones short. Just don't book them all at the same venue

PERFECT! That's fuckin sage advice. Thank you. Don't know why I never thought of booking back to back. That would necessitate the two date close model, which is clearly going to be more time and outcome efficient. Give them that nasty public kiss, maybe a little discreet hand up the dress. Then bounce. If they play, they're DTF D2. If not, NEXT.

Maybe I'll book Teach behind all the rest so she can smell the pussy! Thoughts on that???

Quote:

How to avoid being placed in the boyfriend bucket? Don't be afraid to escalate and be bold, not pushy or needy, with making moves. If at first you fail, try again five minutes later. Escalate physically, deny verbally. ("who has a hand up your dress, me? Never, I'm a gentleman. I don't kiss until marriage")

Spot on! Thanks. I have done that push/pull in the past, but never realized that it was a thing. Worked like a champ.

Quote:

You sound like a natural for Seeking Arrangement game (note: not p4p, we do not encourage or discuss that here). Look at DeepDiver's posts if that's your thing. In particular, look at logistics such as using a phone app to book a last minute room.

Interesting. I had been doing the opposite, and screening out all the clear, and some merely suspect Sugar Babies. Not really feeling girls that are operating this way, and pretty sure they don't fit my MLTR focus, but I am going to read and possibly revisit.

Heard on the logistics bit, btw. I have been using hotels.com and pre-booked last weekend. May adjust to on the fly. Thanks for that tip.

Quote:

Also look at the blog of Blackdragon, who may or may not be up your alley (his old content was good, not sure these days). He's an older guy who is family-centric but has kept rotations of younger women.

Yep. I've been reading him. Much in sync with my lifestyle choices. At some point I found a pic of this guy and/or read about his finances, and was like - WTF?!? If this guy can pull like this, I definitely can...

Quote:

Above all, re-prioritize yourself and your goals. This will fix your oneitis and your quantity problem once you get the fucking around out of your system.

Heard. Obviously spot on. Frankly easier said than done with Teach.

Thank you!

[Jetset]

(02-20-2017 01:20 AM)polar Wrote:  

How to avoid being placed in the boyfriend bucket? Don't be afraid to escalate and be bold, not pushy or needy, with making moves. If at first you fail, try again five minutes later. Escalate physically, deny verbally. ("who has a hand up your dress, me? Never, I'm a gentleman. I don't kiss until marriage")

I'm pretty sure I've always succeeded with, literally, the opposite: I'm well-mannered, but I am not a gentleman at heart at all, and the shameful things I'm going to do to you are a vacation from all that. It seemed to work especially well with cougars/MILFs who found their dating routine dull and wanted to feel adventurous.

I can sense that this is wisdom, though, I'm more thoughtful about ASD and related concepts from my reading here, and my approach probably limited me to a small cross-section of women. I want to understand it better. Can you help illustrate how we use it?

[polar]

(02-20-2017 02:20 PM)Jack_Smith Wrote:  

...

First and foremost, thanks, brother! Much appreciated. Couple follow-ups.

Quote:

Disclaimer: I am much younger than you. I didn't have time to write a short post so I wrote a long one composed of my musings.

At 40, I would have agreed with you. At 50+, I can assure you with absolute certainty that a decade is a BLINK. Literally. Yesterday I was changing diapers. Today paying tuition... The good news is that at my age I can out squat, out earn, out think, and out fuck nearly every fuckin Millenial beard boy. It's a joy to which you may look forward!

I look forward to it, but I want to take my time getting there. I would be glad to learn how you've done it though.

Quote:

Quote:

Oneitis: correct thinking that you need other women, but they should be as attractive / pleasing to you in order to fix your thing with the teacher.

Spot on; and right to the core of my challenge. The sex with Teach is best of class. We built this together over months. The intimacy is great, too, which I enjoy/want. Can't get that in an ONS or a FB. So my takeaway is that I am going to need to consistently fuck several girls over time in order to assess potential to "Match Teach," as it were, and end up with one or two keepers of the same or higher caliber.

Don't forget about your mission and parts of life that do not involve her. Half of her interest lies in the hamster wheel spinning, "wonder what he's up to, what if we were X..."

Quote:

Quote:

Start telling her to do stuff for you, as simple as "pour me some water while you're up" or "grab me/us X from the store" to "wear X tomorrow, buy (sex toy), etc." Her going halfsies alone doesn't affect her at an emotional level. Don't respond to her texts for twice as long as she takes, on average.

I attribute her "hot-cold" attitude to 1) familiarity and boredom, 2) overall comfort at home but you aren't a long term option. You could also probably ratchet things up into Shades of Gray world (kinky sex, outdoors, toys, etc.) but you might also end up with a crazy clinger on your hands.

Heard. She's a handful to manage. The issue is not boredom. I am the boredom relief. I know this because the sex/adventurousness/kink has been steadily escalating for over 6 months now. Still going strong. Every time. We're already heavy into the "rough" territory, outdoors, public, exhibitionism, toys, and discussing plenty more. When we are together, she is compliant. Dresses for me, follows instructions, cooks for me, gives me occasional little gifts; etc. More importantly, the sexual response and true attraction is 10/10. Also the intimacy; particularly between fucks, is strong. And she tells me crazy ass, and recently increasingly crazy ass, shit. "I love you, so so much." "That pussy is all yours." And much much more. All fine, and I get heat of the moment; etc. Here's the problem.

After we are together, fucking non-stop for a weekend, that sexual energy/attraction continues into the week. Sexting and etc. Mon/Tues. She'll inevitably tell me some shit like "I need more." "I crave that dick." Whatever. I'm down. I hit her with a date to meetup next weekend. About 30% of the time, she goes dark for 18-24 hours; then declines. Never an explanation or excuse. After that she will typically reach back with some non-sexual type shit, friend talk or romantic talk, to which I will either not respond or play off short. Then it's dark over the weekend. This is mutual. Often she will not reach out, but sometimes she does. I never hit her up or respond until Sunday night earliest. The other 70% she is down and flexes to my schedule. And comes ready to play hard.

The challenge is emotional. Specifically, that I am feeling taken for granted. There is this disconnect between what she says and what she does. And you're right, I feel like she is definitely insufficiently invested, even though she is doing all the right shit when we are together. It just feels like there is no amount of pulling back, and I have pulled back for 3-4 weeks, that is sufficient. She's the "free spirited adventuress" archetype, btw. Eats men for lunch. Never been true to a man, but always pretends to be a monagamist. Valentines gifts/flowers from multiple men; etc.

Not sure how to play her forward, but she pulled that shit last week and I set up G2 for Friday, G3 for this week sometime, a retread (G4) sort of on call, and the rest of the bullpen (4 screened, solid, and opened, but still in Tinder). Sunday afternoon, I got that "Miss you" text. (Didn't respond twice prior when she pinged me.) Called BS. Got this elaborate apology/rant/blahblah. Haven't set a next date with her.

Thoughts on next steps with Teach?

Re: teacher pinging you for more:

Good news: you give her gina tingles.
Bad news: your responses are way off.

You're her emotional escape valve from her dull existence, play your part in her movie accordingly.

When she knows you know she knows that you can't see each other for some time, it's an emotional thing for her to reach out and be like "gimme more". Don't approach it logically with "herp derp let me check my schedule, uhh, Mr. Smith has an opening next Thursday." She probably texts you a) while her brats are taking a quiz or b) when she's miffed at her borefriend. She wants emotional stimulation. You can give her fantasies, try using this to talk dirty or collect nudes for your amusement, or go cold. Logical mode is a turn-off. Also, if you can't be balls deep within an hour, what's the point of getting all dreamy eyed about it?

Maybe more plans with a few hours notice, less plans for next month. Consider not scheduling anything far out until she starts initiating or hitting about her openings.

You don't WANT her to be emotionally invested. You want her to fuck like it's her last fuck. You don't want her to be around 100% of the time. To paraphrase WIA, either she's reacting to you and it's all pussy, no problems, or you're reacting to her, no pussy, all problems. Knowing what you know, do you really want her to be more invested?

You shouldn't be the one she takes her boy, car, career, etc. problems to. "Hey, I'm not your girlfriend, talk to your gay best friend about your boy problems. " You're there to have fun times with, if she wants a shoulder to cry on she has her borefriend for that.

The other part is, hate to say it, but she's more experienced with keeping a rotation than you are. I'll take dollars to donuts that she's not on a forum right now asking how to keep you around. Cut back emotionally, stay true to you, find other side pussy, and enjoy the time that she's around.

Maybe double booking another date with her and then canceling or running late wouldn't hurt. She needs to intuit that she's not your only source of nookie. If she asks upfront - evade, evade, evade, deny, deny, deny. Maybe let her know that business is going to keep you extra busy /and you're excited about it/ (ie it's good), but you'll have less time for the small stuff. You'll still /try/ to squeeze in her her in.

Quote:


BTW, followed up with G2 last night. Never got her digits pre-meetup and forgot to ask when we were out. This morning she texted me and was blowing up my phone for a bit. Definitely down for more... It's nice to hear. She's much more accomplished and better looking than Teach. Not quite feeling her 100%, though...

The teacher has you by the (blue) balls. Just get another lead into bed and the brain fog will ease up. You can teach the new lead how to do things your way later.

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If your target market is 20s and early 30s, figure out what the ones that bite want from you or see in you. About a third won't be open to large age gap at all, a third won't care, a third will seek it. (Look at Giovonny's posts for some of the mentality.) With those who are interested - why? Are you the older wiser rich guy who they think can give them a golden ticket? (are you willing to shell out for tix to events for arm candy, or not interested?) Are you the badass biker? Do you still have the body of a pro bodybuilder? Figure it out and amplify accordingly. Think about projecting 50 shades of gray stuff.

I have a history of pulling girls with CLEAR Daddy issues. My Ex, Teach, and at least a couple prior GFs fit that profile. I get it (now), like it, get what they need, and am down with these girls (to a point). Openly advertise this, playfully, in my bio. G2 (37) and others that have responded to that same bio DO NOT fit that profile. As far as I can tell, Millenial men are largely bearded feminist faggots who are not fucking their girls properly and are clueless as to how women actually behave. So Teach tells me. What woman wouldn't want a man that can out think, out fuck, and out earn her boyfriend? Teach also tells me that DILF hunting is a thing with her friends. They are not gold digging per se, but look, at 50+ my lifestyle is just way better than what 99% of those cucked beard boys can afford. There also seems to be a strong response to sexual dominance. So now that I have blathered on a bit, here's what I believe to be the bottom line. My Target Girls are attracted to -

• Strong Dad
• Sexual Dominance / Leadership
• Shit Togetherness (Financial, Fitness, Lifestyle, et al)
  

Which I articulate as "Single Business Dad" or something to that effect. So how might I amplify that?

I'm not really the right person to give more details. Only thoughts are imply fun times and experiences (emotional) rather than expensive ones.

Quote:

Quote:

Try to be more in control of time during the dates. Imply subtly before meets that you're a busy man, wheeling and dealing. If you find first date pulls don't work well, try doing a first date for drinks and a quick kiss somewhere, but keep it short, and end on your terms. Second date, propose the optimal logistics and work from there.

Schedule 3+ first dates back to back (different places...). 1h each. They will smell pussy on you, and if one goes really well you can flake on the others. "Urgent client meeting, hope you understand. Hate having to reschedule". Have an excuse ready to go to cut bad ones short. Just don't book them all at the same venue

PERFECT! That's fuckin sage advice. Thank you. Don't know why I never thought of booking back to back. That would necessitate the two date close model, which is clearly going to be more time and outcome efficient. Give them that nasty public kiss, maybe a little discreet hand up the dress. Then bounce. If they play, they're DTF D2. If not, NEXT.

Maybe I'll book Teach behind all the rest so she can smell the pussy! Thoughts on that???

Are you doing this for yourself or for keeping the teacher around?

Also, to be clear, "smell the pussy" is a metaphor, your nonverbals will be much different after multiple dates, much more outcome independent. I'm not talking about fishy fingers.

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You sound like a natural for Seeking Arrangement game (note: not p4p, we do not encourage or discuss that here). Look at DeepDiver's posts if that's your thing. In particular, look at logistics such as using a phone app to book a last minute room.

Interesting. I had been doing the opposite, and screening out all the clear, and some merely suspect Sugar Babies. Not really feeling girls that are operating this way, and pretty sure they don't fit my MLTR focus, but I am going to read and possibly revisit.

Heard on the logistics bit, btw. I have been using hotels.com and pre-booked last weekend. May adjust to on the fly. Thanks for that tip.

I've never gone that route but the line is "I wouldn't buy a car without test driving it". Imply "maybe next time", then flake once they get too insistent. Be very wary of any money discussions. Again look at DD's posts.

Good practice for every online game site you use is to also make a fake female profile with good photos to see what you're up against. In the case of SA, there are actually more women than men, unlike most sites.

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Thank you!

Sure thing. Hope you can contribute a data sheet on something up your alley in the future.

[RatInTheWoods]

I'm around your age and similar circumstances.

If you work out the secret to effortlessly banging chicks half your age without dating, paying for it or going sugar daddy - let us all know!

I find life much better in Thailand....

[polar]

(02-20-2017 03:04 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

(02-20-2017 01:20 AM)polar Wrote:  

How to avoid being placed in the boyfriend bucket? Don't be afraid to escalate and be bold, not pushy or needy, with making moves. If at first you fail, try again five minutes later. Escalate physically, deny verbally. ("who has a hand up your dress, me? Never, I'm a gentleman. I don't kiss until marriage")

I'm pretty sure I've always succeeded with, literally, the opposite: I'm well-mannered, but I am not a gentleman at heart at all, and the shameful things I'm going to do to you are a vacation from all that. It seemed to work especially well with cougars/MILFs who found their dating routine dull and wanted to feel adventurous.

I can sense that this is wisdom, though, I'm more thoughtful about ASD and related concepts from my reading here, and my approach probably limited me to a small cross-section of women. I want to understand it better. Can you help illustrate how we use it?

My vibe is different than yours. My target market is early 20s and I'm in mid, and I get pinned for boyfriend material, (which I should do more to discourage). A couple of my posts on escalation:

thread-57782...pid1378083

(09-01-2016 06:16 PM)polar Wrote:  

Pretending to be shy: rule #1: feign innocence. You can boldly escalate physically so long as you deny it and act shy verbally. In other words, blame her for being a temptress and a bad influence as your hands wander south.

Escalate physically or verbally, but you can't do both until you're in a location where you can seal the deal. In fact, verbalizing it makes it real and she's more likely to clam up with ASD. On the contrary, I've found that denying the physical escalation works almost like a cheat code, she's not as likely to tell you off if the rules of the game you're playing are that "it's her fault".

[Jetset]

(02-20-2017 11:34 PM)polar Wrote:  

Escalate physically or verbally, but you can't do both until you're in a location where you can seal the deal. In fact, verbalizing it makes it real and she's more likely to clam up with ASD. On the contrary, I've found that denying the physical escalation works almost like a cheat code, she's not as likely to tell you off if the rules of the game you're playing are that "it's her fault".

Thank you, sensei. I will contemplate this further.

[Jack_Smith]

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The good news is that at my age I can out squat, out earn, out think, and out fuck nearly every fuckin Millenial beard boy. It's a joy to which you may look forward!

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I look forward to it, but I want to take my time getting there. I would be glad to learn how you've done it though.

1) Blocking & Tackling - Same Exact Shit on which You are Correctly Reminding Me to Reestablish Focus - Lift/Diet/Fitness; Earn; Family - is the foundation of everything.

2) Poor Competition - You're already, as you know, beating the shit out of Millenial men. Older men have all the advantages - money, career, status, sexual ability. All the Beard Boys have in their favor is their age, which most of them fritter away on, uh, beards, coffee fetishization, and craft beer.

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Don't forget about your mission and parts of life that do not involve her. Half of her interest lies in the hamster wheel spinning, "wonder what he's up to, what if we were X..."

Yep. I've fucked this up. Let her get in my head....way too much...

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Re: teacher pinging you for more:

Good news: you give her gina tingles.
Bad news: your responses are way off.

You're her emotional escape valve from her dull existence, play your part in her movie accordingly.

When she knows you know she knows that you can't see each other for some time, it's an emotional thing for her to reach out and be like "gimme more". Don't approach it logically with "herp derp let me check my schedule, uhh, Mr. Smith has an opening next Thursday." She probably texts you a) while her brats are taking a quiz or b) when she's miffed at her borefriend. She wants emotional stimulation. You can give her fantasies, try using this to talk dirty or collect nudes for your amusement, or go cold. Logical mode is a turn-off. Also, if you can't be balls deep within an hour, what's the point of getting all dreamy eyed about it?

Spot on. Again. I am the problem. I do all that with the sexting and/etc.; just fucked up (again) by 1) confusing her verbal spew with actual intent; 2) being way too generous with my time.

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Maybe more plans with a few hours notice, less plans for next month. Consider not scheduling anything far out until she starts initiating or hitting about her openings.

Yep. This is the obvious play. Exactly what I needed to hear. Now that I think about it, she has even said that she gets comfortable when she knows that she will be seeing me on a certain date. Too much certainty. Women, I find, always tell you everything you need to know...

Right now she's not scheduled and I am going to keep it that way + no contact initiation through this weekend. (I had already thought to pause/stop any weekends away, and move her from Sat to Fri, which she knows is my "B" night and not her preference.) Going forward, I am going to stick with short notice weeknight booty calls for a bit.

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You don't WANT her to be emotionally invested. You want her to fuck like it's her last fuck. You don't want her to be around 100% of the time. To paraphrase WIA, either she's reacting to you and it's all pussy, no problems, or you're reacting to her, no pussy, all problems. Knowing what you know, do you really want her to be more invested?

She's emotionally invested AND fucking like its her last fuck. Too late to avoid the emotional investment on either of our parts at this point. Focused on enjoying the ride and damage control....Beyond the very rare random call or comfort test text, she is NON-NEEDY. Least needy woman I have been with, ever. Fiercely independent. Changes her own tires; etc. This is a big part of what I love. Almost the opposite of the other women I have been with. Also, as you correctly point out, she has other, likely vast, resources for emo support.

What's WIA?

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The other part is, hate to say it, but she's more experienced with keeping a rotation than you are. I'll take dollars to donuts that she's not on a forum right now asking how to keep you around.

Nothing to "hate to say" there, brother. She's a baller and I'm not (yet). I have never run a rotation (yet). As far as I can tell, she's been doing it successfully for nearly a decade. Working through that right now.

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Cut back emotionally, stay true to you, find other side pussy, and enjoy the time that she's around.

Exactly right.

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Maybe double booking another date with her and then canceling or running late wouldn't hurt. She needs to intuit that she's not your only source of nookie. If she asks upfront - evade, evade, evade, deny, deny, deny. Maybe let her know that business is going to keep you extra busy /and you're excited about it/ (ie it's good), but you'll have less time for the small stuff. You'll still /try/ to squeeze in her her in.

She never asks. Never asks about past lovers. In nine months, she only asked what I do on weekends once. She is absolutely feeling waaaayy tooo secure. She even said at one point that she takes our thing for granted. That needs to be fixed, as does her perception that there is no competition. Best way is for there to be real competition. I think everything else cures form there.

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Try to be more in control of time during the dates. Imply subtly before meets that you're a busy man, wheeling and dealing. If you find first date pulls don't work well, try doing a first date for drinks and a quick kiss somewhere, but keep it short, and end on your terms. Second date, propose the optimal logistics and work from there.

Schedule 3+ first dates back to back (different places...). 1h each. They will smell pussy on you, and if one goes really well you can flake on the others. "Urgent client meeting, hope you understand. Hate having to reschedule". Have an excuse ready to go to cut bad ones short. Just don't book them all at the same venue

PERFECT! That's fuckin sage advice. Thank you. Don't know why I never thought of booking back to back. That would necessitate the two date close model, which is clearly going to be more time and outcome efficient. Give them that nasty public kiss, maybe a little discreet hand up the dress. Then bounce. If they play, they're DTF D2. If not, NEXT.

Maybe I'll book Teach behind all the rest so she can smell the pussy! Thoughts on that???[/quote]

Are you doing this for yourself or for keeping the teacher around?

Both.

I am a lifetime serial monagamist, have figured out and dealt with the psych underpinnings of this (largely thanks to 1) the divorce and 2) the "Teach" experience), and need to have the experience of the abundance of a rotation as part of my personal growth/leveling up. I also love women and fucking, so its a legit hobby option.

WRT to Teach, I have been struggling to understand and articulate what the fuck I want that I am not getting. When I work through it, 90% is simply either handling her poorly or NLB shit. I decided to take a "lover" vs. BF frame with her from day one, spelled it out for her, and have run that playbook to a large extent. Still have those BF expectations in my head, which she fuckin' implants, goddamnit, and they are, I believe the source of most of my angst.

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Also, to be clear, "smell the pussy" is a metaphor, your nonverbals will be much different after multiple dates, much more outcome independent. I'm not talking about fishy fingers.

I don't know... There's been a bit of threesome talk....

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Hope you can contribute a data sheet on something up your alley in the future.

Paint me stupid, but what's a Data Sheet?

[polar]

Sounds like you have a plan of action, do keep us posted on how things go for you.

WIA - West Indian Archie, one of our preeminent resident game gurus. If you have a game issue, he has written about it.

Data sheet - what we call a guide to something you're good at, somewhere you've been, etc. Basically, a way to add value to the forum. Not necessarily related to game. Guys do write-ups on where they have been (focusing on game, of course), skills they have (from shooting to metal detectors), and business or personal research (from networking to testosterone usage).

[birthday cat]

(02-19-2017 08:16 PM)Jack_Smith Wrote:  

Would a multi-date model be better given my objective of establishing an ongoing thing with each girl? I have read about some guys who put a hard stop on a first date at an hour; never try to close on D1...

I think the best options are going for it on the first date after taking them to multiple places or doing the quick first date and going for it on the second date.

Choosing between these 2 is usually a matter of logistics. Whichever works best for the specific situation. The first date is ideal for girls who are younger and flakier.

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread.

[Jack_Smith]

(02-21-2017 01:48 PM)polar Wrote:  

Sounds like you have a plan of action, do keep us posted on how things go for you.

WIA - West Indian Archie, one of our preeminent resident game gurus. If you have a game issue, he has written about it.

Data sheet - what we call a guide to something you're good at, somewhere you've been, etc. Basically, a way to add value to the forum. Not necessarily related to game. Guys do write-ups on where they have been (focusing on game, of course), skills they have (from shooting to metal detectors), and business or personal research (from networking to testosterone usage).

Thanks. Especially for the WIA referral. Money; that. Will come up with a way to contribute.

[Jack_Smith]

(02-21-2017 11:14 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

(02-19-2017 08:16 PM)Jack_Smith Wrote:  

Would a multi-date model be better given my objective of establishing an ongoing thing with each girl? I have read about some guys who put a hard stop on a first date at an hour; never try to close on D1...

I think the best options are going for it on the first date after taking them to multiple places or doing the quick first date and going for it on the second date.

Choosing between these 2 is usually a matter of logistics. Whichever works best for the specific situation. The first date is ideal for girls who are younger and flakier.

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread.

Thanks, BC. Much appreciated. I read through that thread and some of the zero date bang thread. So far, I think it may make sense to
bifourcate strategy - 2D model for 30-38 yos [D1:Quick Drinks + Kiss Close +Set-Up "Cooking Together"; D2:Cook Together]; 1D model for 21-29 yos [Hip Hotel Bar; Bounce Upstairs].

[polar]

^ yes, if you already have the room and it's set up, go down, meet her for "drinks at the bar", "oops, forgot my wallet, come up and see the view, we'll be right back", make a move. Even if she's not down, having been up once makes it easier for 2nd time around

[Jack_Smith]

(02-20-2017 11:07 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

I'm around your age and similar circumstances.

If you work out the secret to effortlessly banging chicks half your age without dating, paying for it or going sugar daddy - let us all know!

I find life much better in Thailand....

Tinder seems to be working for me so far. 2 first dates, one second, one bang. Second girl was teed up for bang, but I rainchecked her when she hit me up running an hour late. That probably cost me the bang, but I wasn't really feelin it.

Tinder and fucking my son's teacher....