[xmlenigma]

^ Before I even start reading.. Thank you.. Will read properly and write back as appropriate

[XXL]

Thank you StrikeBack, I needed that

[xmlenigma]

just like in the vintage movies we love to watch together.

.. Please name / list some movies that have/ show these Spanking 50s.. I'd love to leverage the roleplay they provide.. towards coaching

[John Michael Kane]

(01-28-2017 01:21 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

@John Michael Kane: I'm looking at the site now, I'm not familiar with it. After scanning the headlines though, it seems that they target either a man who used to be a wuss and now wants to be dominant, or a woman who used to be a feminist and now wants to be submissive. Neither applies to me or my wife, because I'm naturally dominant and she's submissive, right from the beginning. I don't care much for the label "Taken In Hand", I call our model the one God created where the man leads and the woman follows, also known as "The Only Model That Works" or "The Natural and Godly Order Of Things". This is NOT a model of equality, that's a feminist poison. We are not equal before God, I'm her leader, she's my helper, she is created for me not the other way around. The "Taken In Hand" people seem to be stuck with the label "equal" as can be seen here: http://www.takeninhand.com/forum/how.are.we.equal I may not go as far as calling them feminists in traditional / Christian clothing, but they certainly have been poisoned by feminism perhaps without realising so.

Regarding spanking, it has to be used carefully. I only use spanking when it comes to small or playful misbehaviours. I never use it in a serious scenario, where a talking to or withdrawl of attention is much more appropriate. It's because it's both a punishment and a reward, more so the latter because women really do love getting spanked. In the case of "punishment", I only spank my wife after she has realised her misbehaviour, apologised and done something to please me (e.g cooking me a nice meal or giving me a massage). If I show anger at her (never serious, always under control) or if I withdraw attention (more serious misbehaviours), she gets scared, and I do not spank her then, but later instead. Spanking for me is a fun art. Half of the time, it's more like me playing with my favourite musical instruments: her bubble booty. The spanking we love from the old movies is because it's fun, erotic and sexual. It's not something to scare and hurt the woman with.

The reason spanking was brought up in the first place in our relationship is because we both love vintage movies and she aspires to be like a 1950s housewife. She loves the old ads about the pretty housewife dressing up beautifully waiting for her husband to come home for dinner, and started doing the same very early on in our dating. Naturally spanking followed, because plenty of those ads and movies from back then had a husband putting his wife over his knees for a good smack on the booty, with the wife looking like she's over the moon happy and wet.

Taken In Hand is something I stumbled upon while reading up on the red pill. After reading the stories of the men and women, it seems to work best on women that are very spirited and have a natural tendency to be test their men a lot. Some women are just not as docile as others. Personally, I prefer a woman that is a peacemaker and looks for harmony over drama. When selecting for a wife, I'm looking for a woman who is that peacemaker. In fact, I'd argue that a more reserved, quiet or humble girl might be actually shocked (and not in a good way) if you tried to spank her outside of the bedroom. My personal preference is for a woman who doesn't always "need to be put in her place" via spankings. I think there is a certain high-spirited woman who enjoys her man "putting her in her place", hence the desire for punishment spankings. That woman does not appeal to me, but I do know that some men prefer women that are more spirited.

I think it boils down to the man and how wild (or not) his woman is. I think for the men in relationships with testy women, punishment spankings via Taken In Hand may be a corrective method with good results. For the shy, mousy girl that prefers to talk when there is a problem, spanking may just appear to be a sign of uncontrolled male anger, which in her eyes, means you are losing frame. The nuance matters here, depending upon what type of woman you have. Like you, I'm naturally dominant and prefer naturally submissive women. I think the filtering stage while in a relationship or dating is key to avoid having to use corrective methods too often once committed in a relationship. You brought up an excellent point that spanking, if it is to be done, needs to be done from a place of self-control. Your wife isn't an outlet for your anger, rather you are her leader and it is your role to correct her when she's wrong, but it should be done with love. I think many women can find a spanking cathartic.

(01-28-2017 02:53 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 07:57 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  

I get the concept, one of the things I had a lack of (still work on it), was control over emotions. Regular Meditation has helped me work on that.. As someone said.. Dont GET ANGRY (anger controlling you), But SHOW ANGER (measured/ as much as is needed).

I learned how to completely control and channel my anger (or other strong emotions) through physical training: dancing (for the softer emotions), lifting and boxing (for harder emotions).

Quote:

When it comes to today's females.. and Nipping it in the bud.. I can laugh away all their stuff.. (meditation & realizing they are how they are)..
But, I'd like to understand, HOW MUCH of NIPPING it in the Bud, SHOWING or CONVEYING disapproval.. When, How much, & in what way..

Please keep in mind that I am only talking about a woman you want to marry. For all other women, you can do as you please, and can always just walk away if she's too much.

The mindset you need to have is that you are moulding her into a suitable woman for you. This considerable effort is something she must appreciate and understand that it is a privilege for her, and you are only doing so because you think she's a good woman for you. Very early on, as soon as we started dating and after she learned something from me that she said she appreciated very much, I told her that my Time is my most precious resource and I do not spend it on anyone unworthy. She understands and has the biggest respect for my Time with her. Also, my teaching from the experiences and lessons I've learned in life is the biggest gift I can give anyone, which is something she understands very well.

I do not spend time with nor teach a woman who does not respect those two. If she shows any disrespect towards those, withdraw your attention and get ready to walk away.

Quote:

I know & understand this has to be calibrated case by case, but EXAMPLES will help (assuming that one's self control has evolved) more than the "concept" which most of us seem to have understood.

Sure, I can give examples, but don't underestimate concepts. You can always understand something at a higher level than you previously did. When you truly have it in your blood, actions or words are automatic.

Quote:

Also, EARLY TRAINING.. I know it starts from Interaction 1, but with younger girls.. I've noticed that until the Bang/ until she is IN with you, the "Stronger Daddy" needs to wait and let the "Fun Daddy" play until she commits..

Maybe letting Strong Daddy out earlier is a good way to filter out the young girls you do not want to wife up. My wife did not act like this at all, she was a virgin before she met me, and never dated anyone, so she didn't do the "not commiting until the bang". I am always Fun Daddy, even when I'm spanking / disciplining my wife (or back when she was just girlfriend status). I led from the beginning, although of course I didn't teach her everything then, just the basics to get her started following me properly.

Quote:

@StrikeBack
PPS: Some actual examples of Early Training from your side would be lovely. ESPECIALLY, the Over Knee Spanking movies and how you trained her on that.. (I'd like to learn this PROGRESSION in detail) PLEASE.. That's perfectly playful to start with and can eventually go to INTENSE..

Well the spanking originally came from her starting to act like a 1950s wife and preparing my meals while wearing a sundress or a nice skirt with pretty hairdo. I rewarded that by putting her over my knees and spanking her, just like in the vintage movies we love to watch together. It wasn't used at first as a discipline tool.

The first time I noticed that my wife got jealous of other women giving me attention, I laughed and called her "my jelly baby", then after making her laugh too, I spanked her and made her jelly-legged with some serious banging.

I use spanking also for when she gets upset about some silly stuff and lets her usual very respectful language towards me slip a bit. Note: we use Vietnamese pronouns and phrases to talk to each other, even when talking in English, so it's very easy to detect the slip because the language is highly respectful in that regard, or she speaks entirely English instead e.g saying "Yes Husband" instead of the much more respectful and loving equivalence in Vietnamese.

I really don't have to do corrections or nipping in the bud all that often though. I'd much rather teach her to sort that out herself, with my guidance. I do a lot more positive reinforcements than negative ones. Early on, I told her that I want her to always be my representative, that other people would look at her and say "wow, that is definitely StrikeBack's wife" because she represents me so well and makes me proud. When she does something right, I'd say "now that's my wife" or "that's my good woman" and give her a big kiss. When she stuffs up, I correct her, discipline her and as she understands the lesson, I'd compliment her on learning very fast and being respectful of my teaching and my time through listening to me.

I tell my wife her #1 wife duty, far above sex, cooking and cleaning, is to be my retreat. It means I get to relax and have a good time with her. While I nip every misbehaviour early, I don't have to do so too much, because of that rule. Because if I had to correct her every action, the risk would not be me becoming like her father, instead it would be me walking away because she's clearly the wrong woman for the title of wife. If I ever met any of her BS with silence, it meant something super serious, as in I started to stop caring, and she understands this very well.

Like I said, there is a very clear difference in standards between LTR / Marriage and random girls you want to bang for a little while.

Quote:

A passive aggressive text? Word she knows you don't like? Degrading nickname? Getting a reply the next day when she's used to getting them in a few minutes can set her straight. After a while a girl realizes if she brings positivity to the well she'll get some water to bring back with her, if not things will be dry for her.

While this is fine for a short-termed thing (I used to do the same, but mentally I wrote them off), you cannot show any tolerance for this when vetting for a LTR or wife (besides you can't do this if she lives with you). My wife understands the tremendous consequence of disrespecting me. She'd be a goner, at ANY COST, if she pulled any of those. And she never does that, ever. When I nip certain behaviours in the bud, I tell her it is not because I am a nitpicky man, it's because I know when men let their women get away with small nonsenses, it always leads to a big disrespect down the road, and love cannot exist without respect. She understands and always thanks me whenever I need to do so.

A man must be in control of his internal state. That means even if a woman angers you, you don't fly off the handle. Remain calm externally, even if you're internal desire is to lash out. If you're in a relationship, you don 't want a woman fearing you, but rather respecting you. If you don't show excessive emotional outbursts when she does you wrong, you're showing to her that her drama or mistake isn't going to change you. Be the oak tree that weathers the storm. Punish accordingly (with words, a spanking, etc.) and also look to be loving afterwards would be my advice. Correction + affection is a powerful bonding technique to bring a woman closer to you, and get to the bottom of the issue.

I love the mindset of time being the most valuable asset. I've told friends, women and business partners this. Time is a non-renewable resource. Spend it wisely. If a woman learns to respect your time, it means that you're sending her the signal that you're qualifying her for relationship status. So many men fail to qualify women. Women actually want to be put to the test by a man with standards. The contempt so many women have for their men is based upon the massive deficit of self-respect the men have for themselves. Attention is a form of currency. When in the dating stage, a man needs to dole it out with extreme caution, and only to a woman who is reciprocal and respectful.

As far as stronger daddy versus being more lenient, I find it is best to error on the side of not being overly corrective in the early stages of dating. LET HER SHOW YOU WHO SHE REALLY IS, NOT WHO YOU WANT HER TO BE. Abandon all preconceived notions about who she is. If after several weeks/months of dating her, she appears to be a moldable girl, then start slowly issuing loving correction as needed, and see how she responds.

Strongly agree with positive reinforcements. If you make a woman feel special for her having to work hard for your love, she'll desire the affection you shower on her when she's earned it. Women are natural people pleasers. Give her a reward for a job well done. I think too many men underestimate the power of showing your appreciation, but not in a wimpy way. If your wife or girlfriend cooks you a great dinner, thank her by holding both arms above her head, walk her backwards towards a wall and kiss her deeply. Say something playfully sexist like "they say a woman's place is in the kitchen, and your girlish smile tells me you agree with that sentiment". Girls want to have fun. You be surprised how "sexist" you can be with traditional gender roles if you make it fun. Domineering brute = boring, oafish and spiteful. Playfully sexist = Naturally instinctive for both sexes, funny, charming.

"Now that's my wife", or "that's my good woman" work wonders too. I've always found telling a girlfriend when she does something right "that's my little girl". I usually date women about 10-12 years younger than I am, so not old enough to technically be their fathers. But I've had more than a few women feel very comfortable calling me daddy, including women with good relationships with their fathers. When you are "daddy", she feels that pleasing daddy is part of what makes HER HAPPY. Look for little opportunities to praise her for a job well done. Find your own language for reinforcement and let it be something she loves to earn.

A good woman is a harbor for a man. Look at the way a woman's body is designed. Soft, inviting, smooth. Look a man's body. It is firm, tough and ready to work and protect. If you make the point to your woman that she is your harbor, she can relish that role because it is natural for a wholesome woman to want to comfort and nurture her man. Nurturing a man (through her kind words, touch, cooking, etc.) is her way of showing she is capable of nurturing your future children.

[StrikeBack]

(01-29-2017 06:22 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

Taken In Hand is something I stumbled upon while reading up on the red pill. After reading the stories of the men and women, it seems to work best on women that are very spirited and have a natural tendency to be test their men a lot. Some women are just not as docile as others. Personally, I prefer a woman that is a peacemaker and looks for harmony over drama. When selecting for a wife, I'm looking for a woman who is that peacemaker. In fact, I'd argue that a more reserved, quiet or humble girl might be actually shocked (and not in a good way) if you tried to spank her outside of the bedroom. My personal preference is for a woman who doesn't always "need to be put in her place" via spankings. I think there is a certain high-spirited woman who enjoys her man "putting her in her place", hence the desire for punishment spankings. That woman does not appeal to me, but I do know that some men prefer women that are more spirited.

I think it boils down to the man and how wild (or not) his woman is. I think for the men in relationships with testy women, punishment spankings via Taken In Hand may be a corrective method with good results. For the shy, mousy girl that prefers to talk when there is a problem, spanking may just appear to be a sign of uncontrolled male anger, which in her eyes, means you are losing frame. The nuance matters here, depending upon what type of woman you have. Like you, I'm naturally dominant and prefer naturally submissive women. I think the filtering stage while in a relationship or dating is key to avoid having to use corrective methods too often once committed in a relationship. You brought up an excellent point that spanking, if it is to be done, needs to be done from a place of self-control. Your wife isn't an outlet for your anger, rather you are her leader and it is your role to correct her when she's wrong, but it should be done with love. I think many women can find a spanking cathartic.

I agree, but with regards to the bold part, you'd be surprised. Being an introvert who prefers peace and quiet myself, I have always dated introvert women, and my wife is the most introverted among them. Without exception, they all love spanking, in and out of the bedroom, with kitchen being the very close second favourite location, and also other quiet and private outdoor areas (secluded beach, parks etc.).

I would describe my wife as very shy, docile, quiet, reserved and modest. Before she met me, she rarely went out after 7-8pm and had never travelled outside of our state. When we're out together, she always bows her head slightly, walks slightly behind me while holding onto my arm, and stays quiet for me to do most of the talking e.g ordering. She's very scared of conflict and drama, loves harmony, peace and quiet. She'd be the very opposite of what we'd call a wild or spirited woman.

Women all love spanking, just that they are super picky about the man they want to get it from, and the shy and quiet ones only want it from their man.

[John Michael Kane]

Quote:

I agree, but with regards to the bold part, you'd be surprised. Being an introvert who prefers peace and quiet myself, I have always dated introvert women, and my wife is the most introverted among them. Without exception, they all love spanking, in and out of the bedroom, with kitchen being the very close second favourite location, and also other quiet and private outdoor areas (secluded beach, parks etc.).

God gave women a cushion for a reason.

Quote:

I would describe my wife as very shy, docile, quiet, reserved and modest. Before she met me, she rarely went out after 7-8pm and had never travelled outside of our state. When we're out together, she always bows her head slightly, walks slightly behind me while holding onto my arm, and stays quiet for me to do most of the talking e.g ordering. She's very scared of conflict and drama, loves harmony, peace and quiet. She'd be the very opposite of what we'd call a wild or spirited woman.

Women all love spanking, just that they are super picky about the man they want to get it from, and the shy and quiet ones only want it from their man.

Yes, that's the crux of it. Even the best wife quality women are the ones that crave submission naturally, not having forced to give it at gunpoint. There's something deeply submissive about taking your man's palm to your tush. Helps set and keep the proper balance and distinction between man and woman. Oh, and its hot.

[StrikeBack]

(01-29-2017 10:51 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  

just like in the vintage movies we love to watch together.

.. Please name / list some movies that have/ show these Spanking 50s.. I'd love to leverage the roleplay they provide.. towards coaching

We've watched a lot but this is the one that started it all: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057298/ John Wayne's Mclintock!

A lot of movies in that era have spanking, and sometimes we can thank our fainting couch feminists for compiling such a list for us e.g: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLGOzH7yROk

However I didn't go from zero to spanking her booty red after watching a movie. There was plenty of warm-up before that e.g I naturally like to lightly smack my wife in the booty before telling her to go get me something e.g a coffee, a sandwich. I'm also very fond of grabbing her ass as a compliment when she's done something nice.

Quote:

Yes, that's the crux of it. Even the best wife quality women are the ones that crave submission naturally, not having forced to give it at gunpoint. There's something deeply submissive about taking your man's palm to your tush. Helps set and keep the proper balance and distinction between man and woman. Oh, and its hot.

It's more like "Especially the best wife quality women" - it's their feature, they are naturally submissive and love it. And yeah it's spicy hot

[John Michael Kane]

Quote:

It's more like "Especially the best wife quality women" - it's their feature, they are naturally submissive and love it. And yeah it's spicy hot

All women crave submission. The good, sweet ones love it from a dominant, loyal man. The bad girls crave it from bad boys because they hold weak "nice" guys in contempt.

Both groups want submission. Whereas a sweet, feminine girl might make do with a little spanking here and there, the damaged "bad" girl will need to be choked, slapped and strangled to within an inch of her life to feel submissive.

Oh yea, and there isn't a good girl that doesn't love a little submission. For a woman to submit to her man is instinctual, natural and beautiful.

[The_e_man]

Amazing thread. I am just beginning to dip my toes in relationships and things of more substance. I'm happy I was able to read some these posts.
Managing an LTR is lightyears away from the simplicity of banging a club thot and never seeing her again. Thanks XXL for making this thread, wishing you a happy and healthy 2017.

[AfroSamurai]

(01-09-2017 12:46 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Where's the sweet spot?

Right in between a careless dad and a a horny dog, let me explain.

Let shit slide. Women are emotional creatures who want an emotional reaction. Just like an annoying sibling they give you shit to see how you react.

No reaction = no game

Sometimes I do wanna throw shit around, have a fun fight, get the juices flowing. Most of the time, id rather not deal with it.

It really depends on you duh. Do you like the drama or not?

Once she crosses the line then drop the hammer. For me its getting too needy or calling me too much. Or not giving me my space. Then let her know directly what the problem is, if she plays games then play or ignore.

Always keep a good harmony. Thats my most important thing.

[Mufasa]

(01-30-2017 08:44 PM)AfroSamurai Wrote:  

It really depends on you duh. Do you like the drama or not?

Once she crosses the line then drop the hammer. For me its getting too needy or calling me too much. Or not giving me my space. Then let her know directly what the problem is, if she plays games then play or ignore.

Always keep a good harmony. Thats my most important thing.

...Too competitive. This bitch wants to go then its go time. She bout to catch this 'L'



I believe in checking her on her shit at all times. Even if I don't want to fight there are repercussions for her insolence.

• No sex
• No cuddling
• Im going out partying
• Im not going to feed you
• Im going for a walk and when I get back I'll go for a walk again if you're just gunna pop off
  

This is from my experience of just general bitch management not necessarily an exclusive LTR

[King of Monkeys]

Bury her in the backyard with all the other ones. Then go out and try again while hoping for the best this time around.

[John Michael Kane]

(01-31-2017 12:11 AM)King of Monkeys Wrote:  

Bury her in the backyard with all the other ones. Then go out and try again while hoping for the best this time around.

So you show your new girl the tombstones as a sign of pre-selection? Datasheet needed ASAP.

[xmlenigma]

(01-30-2017 01:00 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

(01-29-2017 10:51 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  

just like in the vintage movies we love to watch together.

.. Please name / list some movies that have/ show these Spanking 50s.. I'd love to leverage the roleplay they provide.. towards coaching

We've watched a lot but this is the one that started it all: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057298/ John Wayne's Mclintock!

A lot of movies in that era have spanking, and sometimes we can thank our fainting couch feminists for compiling such a list for us e.g: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLGOzH7yROk

However I didn't go from zero to spanking her booty red after watching a movie. There was plenty of warm-up before that e.g I naturally like to lightly smack my wife in the booty before telling her to go get me something e.g a coffee, a sandwich. I'm also very fond of grabbing her ass as a compliment when she's done something nice.

Quote:

Yes, that's the crux of it. Even the best wife quality women are the ones that crave submission naturally, not having forced to give it at gunpoint. There's something deeply submissive about taking your man's palm to your tush. Helps set and keep the proper balance and distinction between man and woman. Oh, and its hot.

It's more like "Especially the best wife quality women" - it's their feature, they are naturally submissive and love it. And yeah it's spicy hot

I love that video.. Now to find a way to torrent all those classic movies.. Anyone got any favorites that would be great to coach/ influence a new girl?

[XXL]

(01-30-2017 08:44 PM)AfroSamurai Wrote:  

(01-09-2017 12:46 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Where's the sweet spot?

Right in between a careless dad and a a horny dog, let me explain.

Let shit slide. Women are emotional creatures who want an emotional reaction. Just like an annoying sibling they give you shit to see how you react.

No reaction = no game

Sometimes I do wanna throw shit around, have a fun fight, get the juices flowing. Most of the time, id rather not deal with it.

It really depends on you duh. Do you like the drama or not?

Once she crosses the line then drop the hammer. For me its getting too needy or calling me too much. Or not giving me my space. Then let her know directly what the problem is, if she plays games then play or ignore.

Always keep a good harmony. Thats my most important thing.

First you say "let shit slide" then you mention "Once she crosses the line then drop the hammer". That doesn't add up.

[XXL]

(01-30-2017 11:53 PM)Mufasa Wrote:  

(01-30-2017 08:44 PM)AfroSamurai Wrote:  

It really depends on you duh. Do you like the drama or not?

Once she crosses the line then drop the hammer. For me its getting too needy or calling me too much. Or not giving me my space. Then let her know directly what the problem is, if she plays games then play or ignore.

Always keep a good harmony. Thats my most important thing.

...Too competitive. This bitch wants to go then its go time. She bout to catch this 'L'



I believe in checking her on her shit at all times. Even if I don't want to fight there are repercussions for her insolence.

• No sex
• No cuddling
• Im going out partying
• Im not going to feed you
• Im going for a walk and when I get back I'll go for a walk again if you're just gunna pop off
  

This is from my experience of just general bitch management not necessarily an exclusive LTR

You should make a "secrets of bitch management" thread. For real.

[XXL]

(01-31-2017 12:33 AM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

(01-31-2017 12:11 AM)King of Monkeys Wrote:  

Bury her in the backyard with all the other ones. Then go out and try again while hoping for the best this time around.

So you show your new girl the tombstones as a sign of pre-selection? Datasheet needed ASAP.

So that's what Eminem really meant in "so much better"...

"yeah I'm rich as a bitch
But bitches ain't shit I'd rather leave a bitch in a ditch
Bitch you complain when you listen to this
But you still throw yourself at me that's what I call pitchin' a bitch"

[StrikeBack]

I thought I had written this already, but turns out I hadn't.

The most important thing in dealing with my woman's mis-behaviours for me is the Amused Mastery frame of mind, as it is known around these corners of the Internet. And the primary reason why I have this frame of mind is because, through a combination of my dating experiences, learning of woman behaviours and those that I've read about from places like RVF, I already know and can accurately predict the misbehaviours my then-GF now wife would have. When I already know it's going to happen, I'm not caught by surprise and can easily keep my cool.

Sometimes I'd predict that she'd behave in a certain way well before the occasion, and tell her about it. I frame it as a trial that she would go through, and I'll guide her through it. For example, the first time my mother came to visit us for a week after my then-GF and I had moved in together, I told her prior to the visit that she would have a mini territorial conflict with my mother. It would happen with the kitchen and cooking, the cleaning and the general caretaking of me. That's exactly how it went down, and she was amazed at how on point I was. After enough of these experiences, my woman truly believes that I know her more than she knows herself, and that is because she's made for me.

After every occasion like that, she also checks up on me to see if I'm OK, whether I'm upset or not. In our Game parlance, she's checking if I'm reacting emotionally to her shit tests. I tell her no, I'm amused, and I'm happy how she seeks guidance from me and listens to my lead. This is genuine Amuse Mastery, because I already knew in advance what she'd be up to, and I find her child-like woman nature very amusing indeed.

I'd never be able to reach that frame of mind if it weren't for the numerous men here who were kind enough to share their experiences and lessons. So cheers to you all!

[bk19xsa]

I am bumping this because of a specific example I had and wanted to know how I should I act in such a situation.

This woman is not a LTR but so far among the girls I see, she has been the best and most regular. I have mentioned about her in another post. Will update that as well.

This woman had got back to me last month after couple of months of no contact and for the past month me and her have been working out again. She is a great workout partner and fun person to be along with. Plus me and her get along on many levels with interests in soccer, movies and music etc.

She is a 35 yr old single mom and without a job. She lives with her mother. Her two kids alternate weekly or monthly between her and their father.

Now, I do not have oneitis, as I have been fucking other girls while seeing her and trying to see as many others as I can. But I admit I do have a special interest in her because I just get along real well with her so far.

Obviously she needs stability and the situation she is in fucks with her head. She tries to apply for work but she also likes to have fun and is not fully disciplined enough to really make a constant go at getting a job. So naturally there is frustration which she tries to keep at bay. She doesnt show it much and normally she is very positive and pleasant. She is well educated and her precious job was quite good in the medicine field.

She lives far but comes to my area to workout and spends time with me. I know she's broke and I am a MBA student , so max I help her out is with some gas, 20 to 25$ weekly gym guest fee and take her for bar lunch or dinner/drinks twice a week max. She sometimes cooks and cleans for me.

Our plan was to stick to our gym program. I even got her a protein tub so that she maintains her diet. Our aim was to get fit enough to climb a 14000er and maybe later on Aconcagua in S.America (provided she gets a job to ensure her expenses). So in a way we both motivate each other to do constructive things.

I understand that her kids are at her mom's place for this month. Last month they were with their Dad. So she usually comes down middle morning, does gym and leaves by afternoon to be back with her kids. If we find time in between we have sex. We also like lounging across the gym pool to cooldown after workout.

Yesterday, she was already having issues at her home but she came down in the morning and we had sex. I could not finish(I take too long, thats my issue) and we had to leave for gym. Afrer workout we went for lunch and the soccer world cup match. One of her teams, Brazil, lost and she was upset. I had to do some grocery shopping, so we went to the store afterwards and she was having some issues on phone with her mom. She was alright otherwise. On the way back she questioned whether she had enough fuel to get back. I was driving her truck and I felt she had enough to make it back. Plus I was not inclined to spend on gas as I had filled more than half the tank earlier in the week.
Anyways, we cameback. I thought she would leave as it was her time to go back. But she came up. We smoked up a little and we started making out and getting undressed. She was feeling anxious and she said something about gas and I said its fine. She got pissed at that and stood up to leave while I had just removed my underpants. I felt insulted and asked her why she was leaving. She said she would manage the gas herself and had to leave as her family was waiting on her. I argued back that me and her were just about to have sex . Somehow after a to and fro, she relented, and told me she could stay 15 more minutes. She started giving me head, and soon I started fucking her. Obviously I couldnt come after 15 mins and I didnt mind that she had to leave. So we stopped having sex after 15 mins and I informed her, Ill fill her some gas.

Got her a quarter tank to go back. She dropped me back. Kissed me and went off.

Soon after it started raining and I texted her that she makes it back safe.

This was her reply:
'I am mad at you. I already spend too much time with you and you fight me for 15 more minutes. Never again!'

To which I replied: 'We spend the time because of gym and matches mostly.It was NOT a fight. But I agree, I am not going to let us cross the time you have to go back to your family again.'

I did not apologize.

Next day I texted , asking if she had cooled down and had a good time with her family. I wished her well for the day and informed her that her protein was here.

This was her response:
'Return it. I'm not coming anymore. You really upset me. You are not entitled to have sex with me when I don't want to.
You think it's about dominance? Fuck yourself. I have sex when I want to cause its my body not yours'

This got me real pissed off. This is the first time I have seen her text like that. I called her. No reply.

I sent her a few texts saying she should pickup. And I texted that I couldnt believe she was saying this. I further texted that I respected her throughout. I told her to relax and that her issues at her home were causing her to lash out on me. That I am not the enemy here and she should fucking think clearly and get her mind out of her ass. That I am someone who cares about her and that we have great chemistry and influence each other positively. I told her we should stick to finishing what we started and help each other out.

Then next text I switched the subject and said besides all of this what a great match was going on between Russia and Croatia and that I knew she was watching it and that she is trying to supress her smile.I ended the text with a wink.

My question is , where did I go wrong here? And was I naive to think a woman in the situation she is would ever have a more balanced personality. 35 yr old single broke mom. What to expect and I should know better right?

For me the issue only is that her company is fantastic because she really is a pleasant person. My roomate and his family adore her. She is great with kids. My friends like her. So her normal personality is actually good. But I just feel its the pressure and frustration she is in which is fucking her brain that she suddenly lashed out like this even after we had a great month. Sometimes I just think why throw it all down the drain.

What should my next steps be? Go radio silent and on the next day of gym, just sent a text saying that 'you really want to throw away a great thing. Expected more from you. Weak Sauce.' ( the last is an insider joke between me and her. She keeps lamenting while lifting that she is weak sauce as she gets exausted too fast)

I am cold towards other girls, and move on easily when I do not seen any value. With her I see some and she was beneficial in way that I felt more confident and motivated with her around . I know. Plenty of girls besides her.

If she doesnt turn around , she doesnt. Its her loss anyways.

My main objective is how can I make myself better at these kind of situations or what actions should I take so in the future when I face them again with other women it doesn't lead to this?

[torridon747]

She sees sex as transactional and you enables it by simping on a single mother. She bases your value on providing for her, not dominating her, protecting her, and having hot sex. Shes withholding pussy in exchange for resources, soft next.

Notice how she snapped when you refused to provide? That's a tell tale sign. Glad you noticed too and noted it. In the future don't enable this kind of behavior by slipping into provider frame. She's a single mother with not your child, she got there because she's undisciplined and too lazy to work. That is not your problem.

You can avoid this by playing with your mind and giving good dick, stimulating her emotions, pushing and pulling her, spontaneously fucking her like a pornatar and then going cold the next day.

Don't play with your wallet, it's bad game even if you have the dough. There's nothing wrong with taking a girl out once in a while but they should never ever fucking demand it, and ideally not expect it. If she does you have fucked up. Soft next the girl and never pay for a single thing for her again until she's done enough favors to warrent it. I would say never put gas in her tank, give her money, or pay for her gym shit again point blank. Spending money on an experience you get to enjoy while she tags along should be the frame. The power dynamics in your interaction are fucked. Personally I would fire sale it. Nothing turns me off more an entitlement to my fucking time and resources simply because they have a vagina.

When I first got into game I was seeing this girl who acted like every time she came over or would do something with me she was gracing me with her presence. After I realized I had enabled that by putting too much value on her and stopped playing into it she straightened up a little bit but the damage was done. We broke up shortly after but it's been a much less stressful and better lifestyle ever since.

[bk19xsa]

Thanks Eugenics. I agree about paying for a girl. I have dealt with lots of SA sluts, whores and gold diggers, so usually I am able to ward off any financial demands.

With this woman, I am paying for the experiences that I enjoy. I like having a gym and pool partner. I also like going out. We went out to non expensive bars to watch the games mostly or on happy hours/specials. She didn't demand it. It was sometimes my suggestion or and few times hers. The gas is the only thing that I feel is extra and one which she requested. She comes from far and round trips do add up.She's also broke. I agree its on her and maybe my behavior was little bit simpy. What was I supposed to do? Not do gym with her and not go out. How do you game this kind of situation and still win women over. I know she doesnt have any money, and it will cost her decent amount of gas to come see me almost daily. If I could I would game in such a way so that I don't even pay for that. I want to know how its done.

Another thing is if she sees me as the provider then why sabotage a thing which she is getting for free and beneficial to her. For example in the text she asked me to return the protein. That was something she was getting for free. She could withhold or provide less sex by making tons of excuses and still reap free gym, gas and occasional meals and drinks. Plus she lost a gym and health mentor. She was real dedicated and into it with me. Its a complete sabotage from her right?

What am I losing except for pleasant company and sex. I can get the sex through other girls which she knows. I admit that though with her sex was good . That and the positive companionship are the only true losses for me. Another benefit is that I do not spend around 100$ weekly on her.

She understands all of this. So its her complete loss. I believe it might just not only be the provider thing but more than that. When her kids were not at her home, then she would be fine, more relaxed and even spend nights with me. I think when her kids are there, she comes under pressure to be responsible, provide, and take care of them. Her mother probably puts even more pressure. She knows she doesnt have anything. And thats what kills her in the inside. She keeps applying to many jobs but does not have the technical discipline or hustle to secure a good position. I feel pity for her. She's deeply flawed but still better than hundreds of other leeches, gold diggers, single moms and modern young thots that I have encountered. She should have stuck around with her husband when she was young and none of this would happened. I do not know whose fault was it but I inherently blame women. Post divorce she has become a product of her own actions and its a sad thing to see. Other than that she is a nice free spirited person who wants the best for her kids. Either she needs a stable job which she needs to maintain and then provide for her family or she needs to secure a guy who is willing to hitch up with her and can provide for her, partially for her kids and bring stability and long term meaning to her life. I am not that guy and thats another thing she knows. That probably screws with her mind even more.

What action should I take next? Like I said I valued her company (ever smiling, friendly and humorous people make a big difference in life) but at same time if she doesnt want it then her loss. I can move on.

Should I text on gym day about her throwing a good thing away or should I call her out saying ' I help you out with gym, gas, meal and drinks, and you think spending 15 min extra is too much for you' ( I am sure that can be worded better).

Like I said for me the objective is.
1. To not let these situations happen.
2. If they do happen then know how to act and tilt them in my favor gaming or winning the girl over.
3. In the future knowing how to deal with/game girls who might have value but might be broke or have other drama/ family issues.

[torridon747]

(07-07-2018 09:27 PM)bk19xsa Wrote:  

Thanks Eugenics. I agree about paying for a girl. I have dealt with lots of SA sluts, whores and gold diggers, so usually I am able to ward off any financial demands.

With this woman, I am paying for the experiences that I enjoy. I like having a gym and pool partner. I also like going out. We went out to non expensive bars to watch the games mostly or on happy hours/specials. She didn't demand it. It was sometimes my suggestion or and few times hers. The gas is the only thing that I feel is extra and one which she requested. She comes from far and round trips do add up.She's also broke. I agree its on her and maybe my behavior was little bit simpy. What was I supposed to do? Not do gym with her and not go out. How do you game this kind of situation and still win women over. I know she doesnt have any money, and it will cost her decent amount of gas to come see me almost daily. If I could I would game in such a way so that I don't even pay for that. I want to know how its done.

So typically a normal well adjusted woman would have her own resources to use as she willed. You would use that as a measurement of her interest and investment in you. If she decided she wanted to come see you from an hour away, you might be a nice guy and offer to split gas with her. Or if you're not interested in contributing financially you could make/buy dinner. Or if you're games pretty tight you would just dick her down like you're doing a 10 year stretch the next day. I have got women to drive an hour to my house, bring wine, and be pleasant. You can too but maybe not this one. I accept this is a non-typical situation and you're dealing with a real broke bitch. To me that's a big red flag, but if you want to proceed you will proceed, nobody can stop you.

(07-07-2018 09:27 PM)bk19xsa Wrote:  

Another thing is if she sees me as the provider then why sabotage a thing which she is getting for free and beneficial to her. For example in the text she asked me to return the protein. That was something she was getting for free. She could withhold or provide less sex by making tons of excuses and still reap free gym, gas and occasional meals and drinks. Plus she lost a gym and health mentor. She was real dedicated and into it with me. Its a complete sabotage from her right?

Massive shit test on her part. Probing isn't even a strong enough word, she is leveraging her whole fucking existence in your life to shit test you. If you say "look don't be like that, keep the protein" then she's got you and after a while you will not be attractive to her anymore. Why is she shit testing you this hard? I'm going to go ahead and guess it's because you ran provider game, IE blue pill game without the red pilled attitude and alpha traits to back it up. You probably put weight into the things you were providing her and used them as leverage, overtly or covertly it has the same effect. You pay for a girls dinner and you expect sex in return? Nope, doesn't work like that, doesn't make you more attractive to her - not only that your implied expectation tears a rift into your interaction and fucks the whole thing up. "How dare he want sex because he bought me dinner" is what her conscious or subconscious. Here's where you have her saying "ITS MY BODY MY RULES, FUCK OFF". Fucking insulting, but you brought it on yourself with bad game.

(07-07-2018 09:27 PM)bk19xsa Wrote:  

What am I losing except for pleasant company and sex. I can get the sex through other girls which she knows. I admit that though with her sex was good . That and the positive companionship are the only true losses for me. Another benefit is that I do not spend around 100$ weekly on her.

This is the most game aware thing i've heard you say all thread and you're still not there yet. What do you lose? A wet hole and time/money suck that's manipulating (partly) for benefits. Not to say she doesn't enjoy her time with you but c'mon, she knows what she's doing.

(07-07-2018 09:27 PM)bk19xsa Wrote:  

She understands all of this. So its her complete loss. I believe it might just not only be the provider thing but more than that. When her kids were not at her home, then she would be fine, more relaxed and even spend nights with me. I think when her kids are there, she comes under pressure to be responsible, provide, and take care of them. Her mother probably puts even more pressure. She knows she doesnt have anything. And thats what kills her in the inside. She keeps applying to many jobs but does not have the technical discipline or hustle to secure a good position. I feel pity for her. She's deeply flawed but still better than hundreds of other leeches, gold diggers, single moms and modern young thots that I have encountered. She should have stuck around with her husband when she was young and none of this would happened. I do not know whose fault was it but I inherently blame women. Post divorce she has become a product of her own actions and its a sad thing to see. Other than that she is a nice free spirited person who wants the best for her kids. Either she needs a stable job which she needs to maintain and then provide for her family or she needs to secure a guy who is willing to hitch up with her and can provide for her, partially for her kids and bring stability and long term meaning to her life. I am not that guy and thats another thing she knows. That probably screws with her mind even more.

What action should I take next? Like I said I valued her company (ever smiling, friendly and humorous people make a big difference in life) but at same time if she doesnt want it then her loss. I can move on.

She does understand all of that. She's just willing to leverage her knowledge because she has game. She's thinking what you should be thinking "there's another simp right around the corner and this one is getting on my nerves" - "there's another hoe right around the corner and this one is getting on my nerves". Like I said I would soft next - no contact until she initiates. If she never does, good. If she does, you need to renegotiate the terms of your relationship/interaction with this woman. Obviously you don't say it like that but you put up some boundaries and you fucking keep them up. Because this girl seems like a pro at inching past them.

(07-07-2018 09:27 PM)bk19xsa Wrote:  

Should I text on gym day about her throwing a good thing away or should I call her out saying ' I help you out with gym, gas, meal and drinks, and you think spending 15 min extra is too much for you' ( I am sure that can be worded better).

Like I said for me the objective is.
1. To not let these situations happen.
2. If they do happen then know how to act and tilt them in my favor gaming or winning the girl over.
3. In the future knowing how to deal with/game girls who might have value but might be broke or have other drama/ family issues.

"Throwing away a good thing" sounds bitter and pathetic. You should never send a text like that. If you're trying to provoke her into an apology, or rather a fight after an apology hopefully followed by a renegotiation of terms act like it means very little to you. "I'm going to go kill it at the gym {emotional anchor to your past experience}, sorry we couldn't see eye to eye on things {bitch you know what you did}". If she replied in any salty or disrespectful manner hard fucking next. After all what does this woman do for you? Lets you give her orgasms, lets you give her gas and fun experiences, oh how dare you try to support this pathetic woman, give her orgasms, and show her fun times all at your expense - what an asshole you are. What more could she possibly want? More of your resources and the power in the relationship. Don't let her do that to you man.

So for

1. Don't run leveraged provider game - if you're going to do fun stuff that costs money and you pay for the girl get it in your head that it does you absolutely no favors in terms of her attraction to you. She might be superficially appreciative but I guarantee you it would mean more to her if she had invested herself - that's just basic human psychology and goes for just about anyone. It may have an SA effect - IE hoes think they may be able to gold-dig some favors/cash/etc out of you and it garners more interest - but even then you have to use game to direct their interest and shape the coming interaction. This is intermediate to advanced level game. If you have SA experience you know a lot of women are literally evolved to test you, discern how much they think they can get, verify your congruence, etc. You need to be able to navigate this.

2. If it does happen to this degree you have ran bad game and failed several shit tests along the way. See 1

3. Make sure they invest more in you than you do them. As in make sure they actually like you. You ever banged a girl after a 3 dollar drink? And she paid for her own? That girl probably likes you. Ever been with a girl that openly stated "I want to go out" and you suggested something that costs zero dollars and maybe some gas and you had fun exciting sex after? She probably likes you. Ever been with a girl that puts a time limit on your sex sessions after throwing a fit about you giving her money for gas? She may like you but she has some ulterior motives and it's likely all frame is lost.


Sorry to be rough on your brother you sound like you like this girl. I want you to realize that her girl game is trumping your game right now and you're falling into it.

[bk19xsa]

Great stuff Eugenics. I am going to do exactly as you have said. Will update.

Yes, I do like her. That's where it doesn't make sense for me. Till yesterday, she had been a pleasant person. She doesn't seem like a female gamer. Not sly enough to play this kind of game. Otherwise she would have hustled a provider husband or job long time ago.Her personality also is totally different to female gold diggers or hustlers. I am talking from my experiences with past SA sluts and other gold diggers etc. Since fall last year to now I have had about 60 females. Mostly through SA then Tinder and Bumble. So when I come across a personality, I can gauge whether it has ulterior motives or not and if the female is genuine. With her its unique that I am facing this kind of manipulation, if that is indeed the case as you say. Its real sad then and completely erodes my trust in women.

It also shows that either there really are no genuine women because after 60 females in less than a year I should have got at least a few or my game has some serious major flaws which I am unable to correct.

This will mentally affect me and my game because I would think I am not good enough to get a hot young, stable, accomplished, genuine girl who would truly like me when I cant even genuinely attract a feminine 35 year old single mom who apparently seemed real into me and had a very warm personality. Plus I would spend even more time trying to read, learn and put into action intermediate to advance game nuances and skills. I am already doing that a lot and it has taken toll and time out of my life from other areas. Thats not good for me. I need to know how to spend time optimally on game, learn things quickly and put them into effective action to get good results. So that I am able to be socially calibrated enough to correct girls misbehavior and work the dynamics into my favor. Reach quickly the stage where outgaming apparent females like this woman should be easy.And lastly, know how to game and attract genuine women which I just can't for some reason.

[torridon747]

She's just a girl man. Sounds like you're putting her on a pedestal. What I've learned about women is that more or less they all have the same baseline instincts, the reality is you probably did something to enable her acting like this.

Don't think like that. You need to think of how you'd attract a girl like that, how you're going to learn the game required to keep her and keep her pleasant, and why you deserve it. I actually mean like why, you're talking about top quality women most game aware men would snatch up, and most are already married off before college ends. Are you an attractive healthy man with a good grip on your finances, mentally stable and well studied in game if the answer is no, work on it. If the answer is yes, good feel entitled and get out there and find her. Next is where are you looking? I hope you don't expect to find top quality LTR material on SA and Tinder, those aren't good odds.

I know it's harsh but people above a certain age aren't diamonds in the rough, they aren't victims of some horrible accident they had no control over. When you find a broke single mom living with her mother chances are she's not a quality person. She fucked up in securing a man for the kids and securing a revenue stream to support her kids. She's essentially a failure. Just like how society would categorize you if you were broke as fuck living in your moms houseat 35 with no job prospects. Only difference is she has a pussy and a kid

If you get some time watch some Patrice O'neal (rip). He has a humorous way of outlining redpill truths that take some of the cut and sting away but remain profound

With game it just takes time and experience if you're not a natural. It took me fucking forever to understand basic concepts and even longer to implement them in a split second you have to make decisions and I still fuck it up all the time. If you read my posts you'll find I'm still off base occasionally despite putting in the time in the field and doing the reading. Don't let it get you down.

[bk19xsa]

Update:

Yesterday I did text her before going to gym saying 'I am going to go kill it at the gym today, sorry we couldn't see eye to eye on things'

There hasn't been a reply. But today morning she removed me from Facebook as a friend and put it such a way that I can only message her.

So is this also a big shit test? Or is this her trying to get a rise out of me where I act like a beta chump and start asking her why she removed me and why is she not comeback? Lol, she knows I am not going to do that.

I do not get it why she is acting so pissed off and shitty. She was really caring and fine till that sex argument happened last Friday. And even then we still ended up having sex. I never forced her, I just argued with her why she was leaving when we were just getting warmed up and she finally agreed for 15 minutes more which I maintained.

I do not understand what is up with her. It does not make sense for her to be so fucking mad or display such kind of bitchy behavior. The whole last month she was wonderful. She loved that time with us. She was really into workout and it was a big goal for her. She used to keep mentioning it and act all lovey dovey. And then we had plans to do a lot of stuff together in near future. She had even agreed to have threesomes (MFF) with me. One push for 15 more mins for her to stay that included sex and she wants to take action to remove me from her life? Did that last text piss her off even more? Lol.
Facebook was the only connection I had to her life by which I could know in general what she was up to.

I can do the dont give a shit about her and do other stuff but Ill keep thinking about her because 1. I have no idea why she is acting like this. 2. Last time when we broke off, she didnt remove me from FB and when we she got back with me again, she had confided in me that she thought about me and had missed me. So I know even after removing me from FB, she'll think about me. I just do not know what she wants. 3. Ill keep thinking about her because time spent with her was good. It was unlike the other girls and connection was deep.

I might be putting her on a pedestal but only because of the reasons mentioned above.

Not within two days of her leaving, I banged twice a 25 year old Colombian 8, who I pulled from SA. I mentioned about her in the SA thread. She wants to meet me today. The Colombian 8 is 10 years younger, feminine, chilled out and hot. But the mental connection is just not there. Plus its an SA girl, there will always be a catch.

Is it oneitis even if I am relentlessly pursuing and fucking other girls?

For me its not the getting this woman out of my system part. Its the 'why' part. Even if I go by Emotions and not Logic, as how girls usually behave, her behavior to me emotionally doesn't make sense. Why throw away such a good thing?

What should I do now? Dont give a damn and go silent and wait a month before I contact her again or text her that I am disappointed in her behavior. I hate leaving things like this. I like people to respond or at least get a rise out of them so that they show what they are thinking.