[GlobalMan]

Nevermind

[reciproke]

Quote:

I've also found, in my own experience, that once the "seal" has been broken, so to speak, the guy who did it will ALWAYS be her "great white buffalo", barring some extreme circumstance such as rape.

I never have made that experience, and I wonder how one would actually make it. To be honest, I never even thought about, as I dont really care. Is it the idea of being compared that you dislike? Im not a fan of the 'insecure' adhominem, but you phrasing it this way made it obvious to me that at least some degree of rationalisation of your emotions is going on.

Quote:

You could also argue that it's "insecure" not to invest in risky investments. Other investors would say that you're just being rational and intelligent on how you invest your capital.

Except human relationships are never purely logical transactions. It is tempting to reduce the subtleties and nuances of human interaction into a simplified system. But you are creating a false dichotomy here - which is 'if not A, then B'. It may be your personal preference (or taste) and theres no problem with that. But you can't portray it as a logical consequence, because it isn't.

[zatara]

"There are three types of men that desire virgins: the insecure, the naive, and the inexperienced"

I heard that quote a long time ago, and its as accurate now as then. Only the inexperienced think "good girls" don't have high sex drives, or do slutty things. Only the naive think they'll find an attractive woman, who's not a teenager, who doesn't have a sexual history. And only the insecure care about it: if you're any good with women your notch count is likely to be a multiple of ten higher than hers.

[Rocha]

Guys, if a women cheats on you its not something that you can control. You can never control 100% the actions of another person...being her a virgin, semi-virgin, 3-4 sexual partners, 10, 100 or a more extreme slut. Women cheat, men cheat, it is in the nature of mankind.
What distinguishes some men from other is the acceptance or not of the cheating, unfortunately many guys who have been cheated and know, take their ladies back...

I would say most of the guys are cheated, even the most alpha of them all, just that they do not know. Like many here saying lately that some guys spent a lot of time discussing politics that they can not control, also the same can be said here. The only acts that can be controlled are our own acts, so better not overthink, no men is free from being cheated on. This is the cruel and harsh reality.

If not comfortable with her possibly slutty past, what you can do is just one of three things, take it or leave, or cheat as much as you can.

[John_Galt]

The hamstering you guys are doing to rationalize investment in a slut is hilarious.

[GlobalMan]

I don't think anyone is talking about investment in a slut.

Unless you mean the "Rob Banks slut"- Any girl who has banged once in her life and/or wears shorts in the summer.

[John_Galt]

3-4 guys? Let's be honest with ourselves: A woman who needs to bang 4 dudes to find one to marry isn't LOOKING for marriage. She's riding the carousel.

The mindset is just as important, in my opinion, as the physical act. It's not about having an actual hymen, it's about the mentality women who fuck random guys posses. Some of you are missing the point: it's not "virgin worship" or anything like it. It's recognizing a good investment over a poor one. Nothing more and nothing less. It has nothing to do with my "feelings" towards the matter. It's about the likelihood that I'm wasting my time and energy into a fruitless endeavor.

[Kamikaze]

I will give a girl leeway because sometimes otherwise decent girls can make mistakes in their judgment of men. When a guy is merely 18 years old, starting college, and banging that precious virgin you want to marry... even in the eyes of an amazing girl with great foresight and maturity, she is evaluating him based on potential. That's the gift and the curse of being a young buck. Most 18 year olds, especially in this generation, haven't done shit by the time they reach college. Yet they are the ones stealing your precious commodity.

She is placing a bet... that this guy is going to fulfill all that promise she sees in him. She can either win or lose that bet, and often, they lose. Most guys just don't turn out to be that great. And when you reach a certain age, say past college age, you start being evaluated less and less on potential, and increasingly on what actual type of MAN you are. And many of us don't grow into the men we once thought we were capable of.

Am I going to penalize her for that white buffalo not panning out exactly as she wanted? No. As long as she has the right mentality, to view male attention as completely inconsequential. If she is indifferent to the advances of men, if she is less likely to be sweet-talked, even if she's banged one or 2 guys before me... she's a better investment than a virgin I can sense can be sweet-talked. Those girls that take immense delight in being hit on? Much bigger red flag than a notch count of 1 or 2.

Not all virgins are created equal. A flaming hoe who's been through a bag of dicks started off at 0 at one point. It's not always the notch count. It's the mindset.

[zatara]

If you think a girl banging 4 guys in her lifetime makes her an untouchable slut I think you're probably destined to a life of solitude. Thats going to rule out essentially the entire attractive adult female population.

[John_Galt]

Kamikaze:

EXCELLENT POST and great counter-argument.

Nothing in it that I disagree with. It's ALWAYS important to evaluate ALL aspects, not just one.

This is a great debate.

[John_Galt]

(11-03-2016 07:29 PM)zatara Wrote:  

If you think a girl banging 4 guys in her lifetime makes her an untouchable slut I think you're probably destined to a life of solitude. Thats going to rule out essentially the entire attractive adult female population.

Again, please read the thread, or at least a few of my posts, before making straw-man arguments.

This is just common forum etiquette.

[getdownonit]

Excellent, Kamikaze.

Who of you would take the virgin with thousands of followers on social media + dating apps over the girl who's had sex before but isn't on any social media?

Girls today are not taught or trained to value their chasteness, unfortunately. Virginity is only one part of that

[Geomann180]

(11-03-2016 04:19 PM)zatara Wrote:  

"There are three types of men that desire virgins: the insecure, the naive, and the inexperienced"

I heard that quote a long time ago, and its as accurate now as then. Only the inexperienced think "good girls" don't have high sex drives, or do slutty things. Only the naive think they'll find an attractive woman, who's not a teenager, who doesn't have a sexual history. And only the insecure care about it: if you're any good with women your notch count is likely to be a multiple of ten higher than hers.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a virgin.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a girl who isn't a virgin.

There's nothing wrong caring if a girl is a virgin.

There's nothing wrong not caring if she is or isn't.

I dislike calling somebody insecure/naive/inexperienced for someone who wants a virgin/is okay dating/marrying/etc a woman who isn't. I know that a virgin can have a high sex drive. I know that a virgin can do slutty things. I also know that it's conceivable that a woman can be in her twenties, attractive, and still a virgin. Unlikely in the US and today's society, but not impossible.

And this bit about being insecure about a woman's notch count? Get out of here with that. I could call you insecure for caring that your notch count is so high!

Your comment is a combination of vaguely calling people out without the courage to call them by name and the circle-jerk circular logic of people who are too lazy to flesh out their arguments with more substance than you're (insecure/a fag/etc).

Unlike Kamikaze or Stalin, you don't actual have good points. You just speak in absolutes and insult the opposing viewpoint.

Weak.

G

[Rob Banks]

(11-03-2016 04:19 PM)zatara Wrote:  

"There are three types of men that desire virgins: the insecure, the naive, and the inexperienced"

I heard that quote a long time ago, and its as accurate now as then. Only the inexperienced think "good girls" don't have high sex drives, or do slutty things. Only the naive think they'll find an attractive woman, who's not a teenager, who doesn't have a sexual history. And only the insecure care about it: if you're any good with women your notch count is likely to be a multiple of ten higher than hers.

You clearly don't get why guys prefer virgins. It has nothing to do with them having low sex drives. No one wants his woman not to have a sex drive. If a girl has experience with other men, that doesn't make her any better in bed, as John has pointed out. If anything, a girl with a past is less likely to enjoy sex and more likely to deny you sex.

Also, it's not about having a higher notch count than the girl. If a girl has a notch count of, let's say, 10, she is not quality wife material, regardless of whether you have 3 notches or 1000.

[Rob Banks]

(11-03-2016 07:16 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

Not all virgins are created equal. A flaming hoe who's been through a bag of dicks started off at 0 at one point. It's not always the notch count. It's the mindset.

Agree 1000 percent. Virginity is not the only important thing. A girl with a few notches who is hot and has a good personality is better than a virgin girl who is average looking and dumb. Virginity is one of the many things you look for in a girl, not the only thing.

(11-03-2016 07:16 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

I won't go so far as to say 'no hymen, no diamond,' though. A notch # of 2-4 is fine, as long as each came in a serious, serious LTR.

The main idea is that she has to be absolutely repulsed and utterly baffled by the concept of meaningless, one-night-stand sex.

I honestly don't think it makes much of a difference if a girl's notches were one-night stands or LTRs. In fact, if a girl is in an LTR with a guy, she has sex with him way more times (and is emotionally closer to him) than she would with a one-time hook-up.

I agree that one-night stands are a bigger red flag since they imply reckless behavior and potential STDs. However, the problem non-virgins is deeper than that. Even if I knew a girl had no STDs and wasn't going to cheat on me, her sexual past would still bother me, because her sexual past actually changes who she is as a person. Like John said, she will always remember that "white buffalo." If she was in an LTR with him, she will remember him and think about him even more.

That being said, I do sympathize with guys who are not necessarily able to move abroad and have decided to be realistic about the type of woman they will find in America. If you're an American over 25, you may have to settle for a woman with a few notches because the alternative is to die alone and not pass on your genes.

[John_Galt]

I'm not suggesting anyone forsake women if they are unable to secure a virgin. I'm only suggesting that you avoid INVESTING in women who aren't virgins.

Let's be clear: Sticking your dick in her pussy is NOT "investment". By "investment" I mean putting in significant time and/or emotion and/or money and/or energy into a woman or a relationship with a woman.

Some of you seem to believe you will be either unable to secure a virgin OR that the effort and time required to find one is not worthwhile. Fair enough. You must ask yourself this: WHAT are you going to invest into a woman? (This is assuming you eventually want to have a deep monogamous partnership with one woman) Basically, if she leaves you high and dry, what is the COST?

Not MONETARY cost (though this can be part of it). Your TIME is valuable. It is the ONLY resource you have that is NON-RENEWABLE.
Your MENTAL and EMOTIONAL HEALTH. It is related to time. Time spent in misery is NOT time well spent. It's also generally unproductive.
Your OPPORTUNITY COST. If you're investing your TIME and ENERGY into one woman who is not worthwhile, you're by definition, spending that with her where you could be using it to: Make money, find a higher quality woman, travel, etc etc etc. Every person has a limited amount of TIME and ENERGY. Is the theoretical woman you're settling for worth that time and energy? Can you do better? Are you happy with what you're settling for?

These are all personal questions. Every mans answer will be different, and that's ok. This is just a thought exercise.

If you're not convinced that virgins are superior partners, there is plenty of evidence that proves they are (all other things being equal). I'll detail that in a subsequent post tomorrow. A hint though: The info has already been compiled by our dear Roosh. If anyone wants to get a head start on research.

[The Beast1]

OP I can tell you my own stories and experiences. However this is just something you're going to have to answer for yourself. Does it really bother you and is it enough to kill the boner you get for her?

My lifetime notch count is 38 with number 38 being my wife. It's a modest number in comparison to some of the guys here, but i'm pretty satisfied with it. The number has taught me what to look for in women and what are red flags versus what I truly want.

My wife was a virgin when we met. Something I did not know and jumped in head first. In retrospect, it should have been obvious as she had no idea what the heck she was doing in bed.

My previous girlfriends were all over the map from 4s all the way up to a model. She became so enamored with me after we slept together that she did pretty much everything possible in order to keep me around. In the end, I bit the bait.

Why? She became everything I wanted in a woman. She cooks, cleans, wants a large family, comes from an intact family (unlike mine), is religious,believes in the phrase, "till death due us part", and says the darndest red pill things that would make some of the folks on this forum blush.

I don't think I could in good conscious marry a woman who has been with another man after being all over the map and finally getting blessed with such a great woman. I'd make an exception for a widow of course, but not a divorcee. That is also included for women who have slept with many men.

I'm willing to concede maybe 1 or 2 partners, but a true bonafide virgin is really the be all end all of awesome.

If women are like water and take the shape of whatever they're placed in, isn't it a good idea then to get water that hasn't been pre-molded by someone else?

Not all women make good wives and mothers. Don't fall in love with them.

[General Stalin]

The only virgin I ever had sex with was when I was a teenager - and she turned out to be a whore who cheated on me 3 times in the 4 years we dated. Last I ever knew she was a druggie with a contrived eating disorder and does webcam shows for money.

As has been said before, having rose colored glasses about virginal women is living a fairy tale. There is certainly truth that women with little-to-no previous sexual partners tend to make better long-term bets for marriage/parenting but it is merely one metric. Some may see any sort of sexual history as a deal-breaker but that all comes down to personal preference.

The big picture of all of this I am trying to unearth is that you need to be clear on what your personal desires are in your relationships with women.

I'm not looking for a wife or a mother for my would-be children at the point in my life. I'm more concerned with spending time with women that are enjoyable for me to be around. If I happened to run across one that was also a virgin then so be it. All the girls I'm involved with right now have no desire to marry or have children. Some of them already have children, or have been married, and a couple of them have had medical procedures done so they can never have children so it's a mutual relationship. Neither of us are wasting eachother's time or giving any false flags for our potential futures with eachother.

Get clear on your own intentions with the opposite sex and then the qualifying factors can more easily float to the surface. I think it's also important to have absolute deal breakers. It makes it much easier to screen out undesirables.

[Silva]

Also, what does being a 'virgin' mean in this context? is it that she hasn't been with any men at all? if a girl has had anal sex but not vaginal is she a virgin?

The point being, it's not simply about whether a girl is a virgin. I think it's more about the girl's mindsets, values, religion, how she was raised etc. \n
You could find a hot 18 year old virgin who comes from a broken home, divorced parents etc. would you marry her over a girl with a higher count but comes from a good home etc.?

[GlobalMan]

(11-04-2016 01:48 PM)Silva Wrote:  

Also, what does being a 'virgin' mean in this context? is it that she hasn't been with any men at all? if a girl has had anal sex but not vaginal is she a virgin?

It means she's Catholic.

[John_Galt]

(11-04-2016 01:48 PM)Silva Wrote:  

Also, what does being a 'virgin' mean in this context? is it that she hasn't been with any men at all? if a girl has had anal sex but not vaginal is she a virgin?

The point being, it's not simply about whether a girl is a virgin. I think it's more about the girl's mindsets, values, religion, how she was raised etc. \n
You could find a hot 18 year old virgin who comes from a broken home, divorced parents etc. would you marry her over a girl with a higher count but comes from a good home etc.?

Kaotic already said this (albeit in a much more profound way).

And Virgin means she's never had any cock in any of her orifices.

[John_Galt]

Also, I'm about 99.9% certain some of you have fucked "virgins" who didn't have cherries to pop.

I got news for ya: If she didn't bleed during sex, and later turned out to be a whore, 99.99999% chance she wasn't a virgin.

Don't worry, it's happened to the best of us. I too fucked a "virgin" when I was 18. I didn't realize she was lying until years later, after I fucked and ACTUAL virgin.

If you've never been with a girl you know beyond the shadow of a doubt is a virgin, it's really hard to tell the difference. Not calling anyone out here, I'm just saying, MOST women who are mentally stable are VERY attached to their first partner, barring extreme circumstances.

There are exceptions to EVERY rule, as some of you have pointed out. But it is a rule, and the VAST majority of the time it holds true.

[LINUX]

There are several types of guys here looking for different things.

After you read into the past of some of the guys here, you can better see what they're looking for and why they have the opinions they do.

Some guys are looking for a wife. So they seek a perfect partner/unicorn, virgin, that they can control and mold into what they want.

Some guys are here to write about game.

Some guys are here collecting notches to prove something to themselves or to others.

Some guys here have failed with women for the majority of their life and it's easier for them to come here and bitch about women instead of hitting the gym, fixing their appearance and learning how to leverage the masculine/feminine roles, which is what true game is after all.

Some guys here have spent their whole life dealing with so much fucking pain, that they just want to be happy without shoving pills down their throat.

You have to figure out what's important to you and design your belief system around that. It's all relative. We have different paths and are on different journeys. And also, your opinions on women change over time as life teaches you more lessons and you learn from your mistakes.

In my life, in this moment, mortality is the most important thing to me. You only get about 28,000 days in this lifetime and I have lived almost half of mine, and I'm not going to spend the other half walking around with a checklist.

I don't care about a girl coming from a broken home, her tattoos, her education, or wether or not she went to Sunday school when she was 8. I have never in my life met a girl more fucked up than I am. And I have never had a problem meeting amazing women that would spend the rest of their days taking care of me.

My advice for new guys reading this thread is to find someone on here who has similar goals in their life that you do and go meet them in person and watch how they behave and interact. Stop reading things. It's just words.

[Rhyme or Reason]

Wish I could rep LINUX again, this guy is always the one to bring it back down to earth.

[BladeRunner]

(10-30-2016 10:10 PM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

(10-27-2016 11:20 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

I don't find it universally true, in the U.S. at least, that a girl who is enthusiastic or "good" in bed has necessarily had an enormous amount of past dudes. These days, even girls who I know for sure haven't had many guys before still seem to know what to do, or work hard at least. Hell, Cosmo tells them to try a finger in the ass.

I can recall many examples of this, a recent one being a 26 y/o small town Christian girl who had been with two guys in her entire life, she suggested/initiated the gagging on my cock via laying on her back with head over side of bed, the second time we met.

Ease of bang with a girl who is truly attracted to you isn't really a great indicator of her past. You'll need more data, beyond how easy it was to bang her, if this is something that's bothering you.

Only you can decide if it's a problem, but it doesn't seem to be from what you wrote. If you are happy with things then just carry on, as General Stalin said.

That's one of my signature moves!!!

1. Manhandle them in bed. Throw them around - it helps if they are petite.

2.Grab them by the wrists and pull them to the edge of the bed until their head is hanging over.

3. Stand over them. Teabag them and then start fucking their throat.*

*Bonus points if she has a death grip on your ass or thighs while she groans and chokes on your cock.