Quote: (09-19-2016 12:21 PM)Mage Wrote:
Scorpion - I ask you: suppose I could prove in your mind beyond all doubt that Satan is the true lord of the universe and child sacrifice and opening your asshole to a high priest of satan is the only means of salvation thus validating the Satanist religion. If you believed that to be true, would you suddenly become a devout Satanist? Or would you still still hold back?
This reminds me of the old quip about how if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle. In other words, by definition Satan cannot be God. I understand what you're getting at, but conceptually it doesn't really work. It's not the same thing as asking an atheist (who has no belief in any God, presumably for logical reasons) whether he would believe in God based on evidence (the lack of which he claims is the reason he does not believe).
Quote: (09-19-2016 12:21 PM)Mage Wrote:
You see the beauty of a concealed God is that we are not forced to bow down to something just because might is right. There is courage and dignity into believing that despite high forces are cruel and unjust we humans can seek love and justice in this cruel and chaotic universe.
Interesting and revealing language I bolded there. Is this not indicative, as I noted, of pride and rebellion? You reject the concept of an authoritative God, choosing instead to rely on your own power, deeming this the honorable, courageous path.
Quote: (09-19-2016 12:21 PM)Mage Wrote:
But what is unjust and cruel - you may have a hard time seeing that but for many the Christian interpretation of Christ looks almost as repugnant as your interpretation of Satan. Some find it repugnant that human flesh must be worshiped, others find it repugnant that we must sing love songs to some hippy looking dude, others find it repugnant that they will have to wear their crippled bodies again in afterlife, others find it repugnant that the option to correct our sins is stolen by a creator.
Now it could not be more clear. This is particularly sharp language. You are literally repulsed by the idea that you must humble yourself and seek God on his terms rather than your own. The idea that God - as sovereign creator - holds ultimate authority is something you find repugnant. That's fair enough - it's your life and your choice. But these are not logical arguments. They are entirely emotional and housed in a spirit of pride and rebellion.
Quote: (09-19-2016 12:21 PM)Mage Wrote:
There are lots of things to object in but whether or not a person finds these things objectable depends on his spiritual growth. There are religions for various levels of spiritual development in this world and Christians while not the lowest level are surely not the highest level either.
Of everything you've said, this is by far the most objectionable. No one who has seriously engaged in a study of world religions and comparative theology could make such a claim. There is nothing in Eastern religion, mysticism, New Age spirituality, etc... approaching the depth and breadth of Christian theology. I've studied all of those systems in depth. They all share a common element - they were very obviously invented by man. Why is that obvious? Because they all flatter us. They tell us - like you want to hear - that the power ultimately lies within us. They tell us that if we can just become good enough (measured by various metrics depending on the system/religion) then we can transcend this reality through our own power. This is the common element of all false religion.
Only Christianity reveals to us the uncomfortable truth - that we are completely powerless and have no ability to redeem ourselves. This is not the sort of teaching that man invents to flatter himself. Nor is it a system designed for political and economic domination (Islam). It is, rather, a strange and mysterious idea, one that is at once both alien and familiar. God is our father, and we are his children. And just as children are completely helpless without their parents, so we are without God. This is the fundamental truth that atheists reject. Their pride does not allow them to cede control and authority to God.
This is the main thing atheists must understand. If there is a God (not necessarily even the Christian God, for the sake of argument) then you have absolutely no authority over him. You are not in a position to dictate to the creator what is fair, what is just, what is good, what is logical. It seems that many atheists don't understand the idea of God, their view being entirely too small and limited. They seem to view God as micromanaging boss or an overbearing parent (note always the preoccupation with rebellion against authority figures). But God is much bigger than this. It is only the atheist's failure to logically apprehend the power of a sovereign, omnipotent creator that allows them to so casually denigrate him. God is not a mean guy on a cloud who wants to tell you what to do. He is, rather, the force beyond time and space that underlies the entire physical universe. God is the only thing that has existence in and of itself. And this force - awesome in the literal definition of the word - is not impersonal, but rather has an identity. And he wants to share it with us.
This is very important for people to think about deeply. Before you reject the idea of God you need to be very sure you've exhaustively explored the concept of God. It's not something you want to gloss over. There is everything at stake, after all. Any man who humbles himself and earnestly seeks to follow the truth wherever it leads will not be disappointed.
[size=8pt]"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”[/size] [size=7pt] - Romans 8:18[/size]