[kirdiesel]

So I just had a flake today...

She canceled the date with some bs excuse which I dont think is genuine at all and said MAYBE next week.

I didn't say ok, I didn't try to run some funny line, I didn't say anything but ignore the message and not reply.... She def saw I saw the message too since its whatsapp.

Lets see how this approach works out.

[XPQ22]

(07-28-2016 03:54 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

So I just had a flake today...

She canceled the date with some bs excuse which I dont think is genuine at all and said MAYBE next week.

I've never had a girl come back after she flaked on me on a first date and didn't offer a solid alternate, no matter what I did or didn't do. It's a polite way of saying "fuck off forever."

Quote:

I didn't say ok, I didn't try to run some funny line, I didn't say anything but ignore the message and not reply.... She def saw I saw the message too since its whatsapp.

Lets see how this approach works out.

If they flake last minute, I do the same thing. Definitely don't respond before the time the date was supposed to start - they left you hanging so return the favor. If they're lucky they get a "k np" text at about midnight.

You can try again a few days later, but I don't think you'll get much. But at least you'll preserve your dignity.

Lack of enthusiasm and poor attitude over text is such a bad sign that these days I don't even deal with it; I have other options. Once an online girl started getting pissy with me via text before we were supposed to meet (I was running late because of a severe rainstorm), and I just whipped the car around and drove 30 miles home. Forget it.

She texted me "Ok, thanks asshole." Did her shaming have any impact on me? Definitely not. And I probably have fewer options than she does.

[JayJuanGee]

(07-28-2016 03:54 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

So I just had a flake today...

She canceled the date with some bs excuse which I dont think is genuine at all and said MAYBE next week.

I didn't say ok, I didn't try to run some funny line, I didn't say anything but ignore the message and not reply.... She def saw I saw the message too since its whatsapp.

Lets see how this approach works out.

So what is your next plan?

Do you plan to wait for her to contact you again or are you planning to initiate another contact at a certain point? If you are planning to initiate then when would you do it and what would you say?

I know that sometimes we play this kind of thing by ear, but would be interested to know if you have some kind of plan regarding different scenarios that could play out.

[kirdiesel]

I dont have a strategy.. honestly im playing the whole thing by ear.

She just contacted me again 10 minutes asking if i am upset because we didn't meet today. I still haven't replied. This girl has "the world revolves around me" attitude and I gotta put that into check somehow and I'm tired of typical approaches and wanted to try a complete shut out.

My friend who is a natural told me if you don't answer girls in certain situations they don't know what you think and this type of thing drives them nuts.

[DimeBait]

I would just charge it to the game and keep it moving. Sounds like she thrives on the attention and communication more than anything.

[JayJuanGee]

(07-28-2016 04:51 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

I dont have a strategy.. honestly im playing the whole thing by ear.

She just contacted me again 10 minutes asking if i am upset because we didn't meet today. I still haven't replied. This girl has "the world revolves around me" attitude and I gotta put that into check somehow and I'm tired of typical approaches and wanted to try a complete shut out.

My friend who is a natural told me if you don't answer girls in certain situations they don't know what you think and this type of thing drives them nuts.

Pretty much I agree with everything that you wrote, and even creating a plan can be difficult but it can help to give some kinds of guidance (to yourself) regarding what trigger points to do what, at least some kind of outline.

If you attempt to plan various scenarios, of course you have the authority and discretion to divert from the plan or to replan, but planning can allow you some better abilities to compare how 1 situation plays out as compared with another... and maybe to adapt a bit in order to tailor it better to your own personal preferences and attributes.


I personally am inclined towards what you are doing and forcing the girl to have to do the making up and the initiation and the demonstration that she is truly not going to pull her previous shit on you... and you have to likely figure out how long to leave her hanging. You likely realize that a strategy can be very effective (such as causing her to pursue), but at a certain point, such a strategy can backfire as well if you attempt to play it longer than it is necessary (judgement call on your behalf, of course).

[kirdiesel]

(07-28-2016 05:11 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 04:51 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

I dont have a strategy.. honestly im playing the whole thing by ear.

She just contacted me again 10 minutes asking if i am upset because we didn't meet today. I still haven't replied. This girl has "the world revolves around me" attitude and I gotta put that into check somehow and I'm tired of typical approaches and wanted to try a complete shut out.

My friend who is a natural told me if you don't answer girls in certain situations they don't know what you think and this type of thing drives them nuts.

Pretty much I agree with everything that you wrote, and even creating a plan can be difficult but it can help to give some kinds of guidance (to yourself) regarding what trigger points to do what, at least some kind of outline.

If you attempt to plan various scenarios, of course you have the authority and discretion to divert from the plan or to replan, but planning can allow you some better abilities to compare how 1 situation plays out as compared with another... and maybe to adapt a bit in order to tailor it better to your own personal preferences and attributes.


I personally am inclined towards what you are doing and forcing the girl to have to do the making up and the initiation and the demonstration that she is truly not going to pull her previous shit on you... and you have to likely figure out how long to leave her hanging. You likely realize that a strategy can be very effective (such as causing her to pursue), but at a certain point, such a strategy can backfire as well if you attempt to play it longer than it is necessary (judgement call on your behalf, of course).

You have a great point there.... I'm at the point now where I am asking myself how I should go forth...

I think what im going to do is leave her hanging for 24 hours and let her go another whole day to think about what she did and let some "angst" build up inside of her that she's completely lost her chance and then return again. Like you said waiting too long could have the complete opposite desired effect.

I won't answer her question if I was upset or not but rather let her know my time is valuable to me and the world in fact doesnt in fact revolve around her.

This is her last chance with me for sure.

[Rhyme or Reason]

You are still framing your actions around her. Ie, what she thinks, feels, ect.

The main disconnect here is conflating passive vs active game as penned by Samsaeu.

Over gaming is real. Spend this time working on your passive game (lifting, practicing whatever it is you do) rather than planning around how to get inside this particular bitches head.

It's way more effective in the long run. Imagine not giving a fuck about a chick flaking...aint that some shit?

Just my .02

[Rocha]

(07-20-2016 12:41 AM)Graft Wrote:  

I have to express a controversial opinion that has been on my mind for a long time. Let's discuss flaking and how to handle it.

I always shame a girl when she flakes. I carved out time in my day, possibly me weekend, and she disrespects myself and my time. I'll say something like a neg:

"Oh cool you're playing the whole ghost thing? You're not (insert x) here."

The idea is not to get laid, but to stop the epidemic of flaking. For me personally, flaking cannot continue happening at this rate. I am at at least 50%, probably 75%. Even if you're at 25%, that's still a lot of time wasted. These are girls from a diverse range of relationship status, from random tinder girl to short term FWB.

From what I've read most guys on here think it's a shitty and weak move. This is what enables them to keep going it-they don't have any negative repercussions when they do it.

Another thing you can do is send the most sexual remark you can think of and try to hit a home run. If you don't get laid or nudes you'll probably offend her. Either is acceptable.

Quit Tinder and online dating apps, then your flaking rate will magically recede.

[JayJuanGee]

(07-28-2016 07:03 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 05:11 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(07-28-2016 04:51 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

I dont have a strategy.. honestly im playing the whole thing by ear.

She just contacted me again 10 minutes asking if i am upset because we didn't meet today. I still haven't replied. This girl has "the world revolves around me" attitude and I gotta put that into check somehow and I'm tired of typical approaches and wanted to try a complete shut out.

My friend who is a natural told me if you don't answer girls in certain situations they don't know what you think and this type of thing drives them nuts.

Pretty much I agree with everything that you wrote, and even creating a plan can be difficult but it can help to give some kinds of guidance (to yourself) regarding what trigger points to do what, at least some kind of outline.

If you attempt to plan various scenarios, of course you have the authority and discretion to divert from the plan or to replan, but planning can allow you some better abilities to compare how 1 situation plays out as compared with another... and maybe to adapt a bit in order to tailor it better to your own personal preferences and attributes.


I personally am inclined towards what you are doing and forcing the girl to have to do the making up and the initiation and the demonstration that she is truly not going to pull her previous shit on you... and you have to likely figure out how long to leave her hanging. You likely realize that a strategy can be very effective (such as causing her to pursue), but at a certain point, such a strategy can backfire as well if you attempt to play it longer than it is necessary (judgement call on your behalf, of course).

You have a great point there.... I'm at the point now where I am asking myself how I should go forth...

I think what im going to do is leave her hanging for 24 hours and let her go another whole day to think about what she did and let some "angst" build up inside of her that she's completely lost her chance and then return again. Like you said waiting too long could have the complete opposite desired effect.

I won't answer her question if I was upset or not but rather let her know my time is valuable to me and the world in fact doesnt in fact revolve around her.

This is her last chance with me for sure.

That sounds like a pretty decent plan and frame, and as you already stated, we recognize that sometimes certain messages can be clearly and unambiguously said without saying the words directly.

I will be curious to hear about how this plays out, for example, my thoughts are that once you have her in the right mindset, you still gotta keep the frame that way in that it could take quite a while for you to give her leeway with you, in other words, in this particular circumstance, she's gotta be the one doing most of the work, until such time as she has made up for her self-centered behavior... so yeah, like you said, if you are getting her in thinking about her various defects that she has got to work on, and really it is not about your feelings at all, but instead, she's got some defects that she has got to work on ...

[Arado]

Two flakes this week. Both of them counter proposed though so it wasn't as if they were completely not interested, but I'm very wary about setting time aside for them in the future.

What annoys me about the flake isn't the desperation of not getting the girl, but rather the wasted time. I have a dozen prospects on hand right now and only a few evenings a week I can meet them. A flake really kills my time to capitalize on fresh leads.

Has anyone invited a girl out at the last minute who ends up flaking on some other guy to meet you? It would be interesting to hear from them how they rationalized disrespecting the other guy's time.

[XPQ22]

(07-28-2016 03:54 PM)kirdiesel Wrote:  

So I just had a flake today...

She canceled the date with some bs excuse which I dont think is genuine at all and said MAYBE next week.

I didn't say ok, I didn't try to run some funny line, I didn't say anything but ignore the message and not reply.... She def saw I saw the message too since its whatsapp.

Lets see how this approach works out.

BTW we already have an "I just got flaked on" thread, y'all...

thread-12137.html

[Jean Valjean]

There's an episode of The Brady Bunch where Marcia accepts an invitation to go on a date with a Charley, a "plain, sweet, ordinary guy" who's "nice as can be" (in Marcia's words) and extremely excited about dating her, trying hard to find every way possible to please her. Then she gets asked out by Doug, her school's most popular football player and "biggest man on campus," and decides to flake on Charley, telling him, "Something suddenly came up." She puts her feelings of guilt at disappointing him out of her mind by remembering how happy she is to have a date coming up with Doug.

But then, after she gets hit in the face with a football during a game of catch, marring her beauty, Doug flakes on her, coincidentally using the same phrase she used, "Something suddenly came up." Marcia's parents tell her that the way she treated Charley was just as bad as the way Doug treated her, and she goes crawling back to Charley to try to get him to go out with her. It's like an allegory about how, for modern women, the carousel is followed by a post-wall epiphany phase.

You can tell how times have changed. Back then, even though AWALT tendencies were in effect just as much as they are now, the beta could still get the girl while she was virginal and in her prime. These days, he would have to wait till after she's been pumped and dumped by a succession of alphas for 10-15 years.

The Subject Was Noses

[BossOfBosses]

Shaming girls for flaking is the lamest, weakest move. Men are not supposed to shame anything, it's feminine. We've fallen far on a masculine board if the topic of discussion is ways to hiss and get prissy at women who ghost on a date.

The way a man handles this situation if you want to really put her on blast and discourage that behavior is bare knuckle, naked exposal (watch Donald Trump tweets for the general idea), basically trolling her. The more subtlety you can use, the better. Trolling is masculine, shaming is not, hence why it is ineffective on women.

[rockoman]

How to react to flaking?

Amused mastery is the way to go here. Act like it's no big deal - which it isn't. Remember you have lots of other prospects, haven't you?

Every single action and thought has repercussions for your inner game. When you shame a girl for flaking, however justified a reaction it may be, you are implicitly saying to yourself "She was important, I lost and it hurts"

Don't go there - hold that frame of amused mastery, however difficult it may be.

[joema]

I love Flakes. I'm dressed up nicely and groomed. I have a set amount of time carved away for me. I'm at a great bar that I chose because it's exactly the type of place I like being. It has just the right atmosphere that I like with the type of drinks that I like. If I drove over, my car is cleaned out, or I'm close to my clean apartment with made bed. Logistics is already taken care of.

My flake just set me up with with a perfect night to go out on my own terms and play my night game. I own the night. I tell every girl there, "Hey I just got flaked on, but this place is cool, I love being here and I'm staying" and she believes it because it's true. I find myself more attractive to other girls as I'm having a good time.

My one flake just fed into 10 optimal approaches and a bang. If it was a real good night, I even think about thanking Ms. Flake the morning after for handing me such a great night. Shame her? No. Go out, commit yourself to approaches and have a great time, while she's doing something shitty, not nearly as fun as what you're doing.

[General Stalin]

(01-04-2017 08:36 AM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  

Men are not supposed to shame anything, it's feminine.

This is not true. If a woman gets out of line she should be made to feel ashamed for her bad behavior so she understands that is poor behavior and can correct it going forward. Shaming someone does not need to mean bitching at them about it like a pussy. It can be as simple as going silent on them for a period of time, or a direct one line delivery of "I don't like that"/"I don't want you to do that again" etc.

Back in the day this community dedicated weeks to shaming women on social media to help correct their behavior. #FatShamingWeek #GetBackToTheKitchen

[BossOfBosses]

(01-04-2017 11:08 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 08:36 AM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  

Men are not supposed to shame anything, it's feminine.

This is not true. If a woman gets out of line she should be made to feel ashamed for her bad behavior so she understands that is poor behavior and can correct it going forward. Shaming someone does not need to mean bitching at them about it like a pussy. It can be as simple as going silent on them for a period of time, or a direct one line delivery of "I don't like that"/"I don't want you to do that again" etc.

Going silent on a bad behaving girl is not shaming her.

[262]

^ It depends on if the girl values your attention or not.

Women crave attention like men crave sex.

[just a human]

Any person should be punished for disrespectful behavior.
That's the only way to better society.
If guys will let women do what ever they want-they will use it more and more.

I usually send something very rude. Like: "Go to hell stupid bitch".
I do it not only to punish her,but to set my mind on the right mood-she is an insect ,that bothers me. Slap it immediately..

[The_e_man]

(01-05-2017 06:43 AM)just a human Wrote:  

Any person should be punished for disrespectful behavior.
That's the only way to better society.
If guys will let women do what ever they want-they will use it more and more.

I usually send something very rude. Like: "Go to hell stupid bitch".
I do it not only to punish her,but to set my mind on the right mood-she is an insect ,that bothers me. Slap it immediately..

It has been established already multiple times in this thread that calling a girl out for her bad behaviour will not make her "feel bad" and it will do absolutely nothing to rectify or correct her future behaviour. Even if all the guys on this forum decided to "punish" all flaking, then girls will still have an avalanche of regular beta guys to string around and flake on.

If the girl doesn't respect you or value you, she will flake on you. Simple as that.
If she was really into you, a flake simply wouldn't happen unless something legitimately came up. And at that point she would let you know about it as soon as possible and try her best to reschedule and even twist her schedule around to make sure it fits you.

I used to go through the exact same woman-hating stage you are currently going through, thinking of them as insects that are beneath our feet. It's a phase, and I don't blame you for going through it. It rocks our reality when these beautiful angelic creatures we idolized and pedestalized come back down to reality. We see their scandalous, selfish, solipsistic, cruel, hypergamous, disrespectful nature slapped in front of our faces when we swallow the red pill. And it can definitely turn a man into a woman-hater. But please grow out of this stage and realize that women are people just like men. They are not insects below your feet. I feel you are saying this only out of anger and frustration towards women.
Once your game improves and you start having value to some women, you will see the other side of the coin.
A woman can be amazing, she will do anything in her power to make you happy, anything at all to please you and make you feel good. She will flake and disrespect all men she doesn't deem as alpha and high-value. But for the few that she sees at the top, she will move mountains to be with him and make him happy.

Put the woman-hating aside, and try to become the top echelon of men that women covet and fight for. You will never have to worry about texting a girl "go fuck yourself" because she flaked on you.

[DimeBait]

^^ Exactly.

Just ignore that bish and move on. Always set up simultaneous appointments and go with whatever you think will be a better use of your time. Start flaking on these bishes and it'll have the reverse effect.

[Libertas]

Here's something I've been thinking about that isn't necessarily "shaming," but it may relate.

People love to have a reason for doing something and also once committed, have a psychological need to fulfill that commitment or risk being inconsistent, a feeling everyone hates.

Can this be done with flakes at any level? Get her to commit in some way and then, not shame, but merely insinuate she isn't being consistent?

I haven't tried it in the game yet, but it's a persuasion skill I learned in the last year. I was wondering if any of you have tried it and whether I should give it a go with the numbers and dates I collect in the 2017 campaign.

[General Stalin]

The problem is that you are fighting the power and desire of comfort and convenience of non-confrontation. Girls will agree to plans they don't necessarily care to follow through with because it's far easier to be agreeable. Then they flake because with some shit lie because having some last minute "important" excuse for not being able to meetup is far easier and more agreeable than saying you simply don't care to see someone. Moreover, simply ignoring them and blowing them off all together is the easiest road of all.

We live in a time where comfort and convenience rules all. Your modern young adult lives an incredibly conflict-free life with little to no hardships or discomfort of any kind.

[just a human]

Not all situations are equal and not all the people (both-man and women) are equal. I tend to disagree,that we should ignore such behavior and leave it with no reaction. Look at this,like a business deal-there is a contract,and if one of sides do something wrong,this may lead to some penalty.
Girls use a fact that they don't have a business contract with You. But most of them,for example,have some employment contract. And she will be at her job next day at 8:00,with no excuses.
I dont hate women,i dont hate man-people are different. I have zero tolerance against bad, disrespectful behavior, whenever it comes from man or women.