[MMX2010]

Space Cowboy,

When you're resisting arrest.

[weambulance]

(07-07-2016 02:39 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 02:08 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 01:37 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

Police go to work in fear that in many cities they may be executed in their patrol cars while waiting for their next call to come in be it a biker gang, ISIS fanatic, BLM militant, or El Chapo Sinaloa drugs dealing cop killer.

Come on man. Very few cops die in violent altercations. The overwhelmingly vast majority of police deaths are from traffic accidents. If cops truly believe they're under threat all the time and worry about getting executed, they have serious paranoia issues and terrible attitudes that do not lend themselves well to proper community policing.

Hardly anybody wants to fuck with the police, criminals included. All that does is bring down a ton of heat.

As to the subject of the thread, this case looks borderline. Without knowing more about what actually went down, I'd call it probably technically justified but not necessary, and the cops likely could've handled it better from the second they got the call from dispatch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Am...ne_of_duty

40 cops were killed last year by gunfire.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fata...facts.html

Police officers according to the above are assaulted 50.000 times a year, 15.000 times of those leading to injuries.

If I was a police officer each of those 40 deaths by some scumbag would be completely unacceptable. 15.000 assaults with injuries.

40 out of ~765,000.

Nothing you said invalidates anything I said. It's a moderately rough job, which every cop in the universe knew going in. Taking an extreme us-vs-them attitude is exactly the wrong way to deal with the problem, and justifying excessive force and excessive protection under the law because it's a "dangerous" job just makes the problem worse.

Police are not meant to be apart from or elevated above the citizenry. Read Peel's principles of policing sometime. Us vs them is a wartime attitude, and does not belong in the domestic environment.

[GlobalMan]

(07-07-2016 03:43 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 03:34 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

From the girlfriend's account,

Why does the video begin AFTER the shooting took place? Do you expect me to believe she DIDN'T record any video prior to this moment? Why do her statements seem so rehearsed?

I have zero trust in anything this woman says. She is editing the truth for her own gain, just like this monster did after she stabbed her boyfriend in the neck from the back seat of his car:

Are you asking me? I don't expect you to believe anything, I'm not making a case for anything, I'm simply repeating what has been said and what is known.

Saying that, I don't understand the quick jump to think the woman is hiding something. It's not suspicious to me at which point the streaming begins- it was a simple tail light out traffic stop until the dude was shot, after that there was something to record (not that I would think of recording any of it- just that it makes sense why she might have started at that point and not prior)

I don't know what she could be hiding or what could be gained from doing so. That he was a legal concealed carrier is a fact, and the tone and reaction of the cop seems to give the impression that something indeed may have gone wrong and he regretted the decision.

This incident does not seem like the manufactured outrage of what are indeed found to be "good shoots" in the end- this looks like a bad shoot or at least unnecessary, perhaps some blame on both sides, but an incident that shouldn't have happened, and one in which a man following the law is now dead. There is no reason to throw the girlfriend under the bus so far.

It doesn't help anyone to gloss over the true incidents of cops making poor decisions.

It is a sobering lesson to those of us in the U.S. who carry.

The fact that I carry probably makes me look at it differently. As I said in my previous post, it sounds like the carrier didn't make the best choice of actions. That doesn't mean the cop handled it right though either, or that the dude should be dead.

[Ghost Tiger]

(07-07-2016 04:03 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 03:43 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 03:34 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

From the girlfriend's account,

Why does the video begin AFTER the shooting took place? Do you expect me to believe she DIDN'T record any video prior to this moment? Why do her statements seem so rehearsed?

I have zero trust in anything this woman says. She is editing the truth for her own gain, just like this monster did after she stabbed her boyfriend in the neck from the back seat of his car:

Are you asking me? I don't expect you to believe anything, I'm not making a case for anything, I'm simply repeating what has been said and what is known.

Saying that, I don't understand the quick jump to think the woman is hiding something. It's not suspicious to me at which point the streaming begins- it was a simple tail light out traffic stop until the dude was shot, after that there was something to record (not that I would think of recording any of it- just that it makes sense why she might have started at that point and not prior)

I don't know what she could be hiding or what could be gained from doing so. That he was a legal concealed carrier is a fact, and the tone and reaction of the cop seems to give the impression that something indeed may have gone wrong and he regretted the decision.

This incident does not seem like the manufactured outrage of what are indeed found to be "good shoots" in the end- this looks like a bad shoot or at least unnecessary, perhaps some blame on both sides, but an incident that shouldn't have happened, and one in which a man following the law is now dead. There is no reason to throw the girlfriend under the bus so far.

It doesn't help anyone to gloss over the true incidents of cops making poor decisions.

It is a sobering lesson to those of us in the U.S. who carry.

The fact that I carry probably makes me look at it differently. As I said in my previous post, it sounds like the carrier didn't make the best choice of actions. That doesn't mean the cop handled it right though either, or that the dude should be dead.

No I wasn't asking you directly. My questions were rhetorical. I understand your point of view, I'm just more suspicious of the woman than you are. I think the facts that emerge about the incident prior to the beginning of her video will be interesting. I do think she's hiding something.

[TravelerKai]

I posted this in another thread.

Quote:

Which one? The dude in Baton Rouge? If so, don't feel sorry for that guy. He wrestled and fought with two police officers and only got shot after his gun fell out on the ground. He wasn't handcuffed, they were still trying to pin him down.

Apparently he flashed his gun at some other dude for some reason. He was selling CDs in front of a corner store. That person or someone else called the police on him, then he fought them and jumped on their cop car. I read somewhere else he was tased and it failed, but I cannot confirm that yet.

This dude even did time in prison for sex with girl 13-17.

Don't give these BLM idiots any more credibility by associating with their nonsense. You fist fight police officers, they will kill you. Double so if your gun falls out of your pants because you failed to tell them upon approach that you have one. He was a felon anyway, so him having a handgun was illegal to begin with. Nothing of value was lost and those cops did nothing wrong.

I will add to this by saying, Black people in America need to learn how the real world works. Sticking up for bad people that do illegal things and get killed by the police while doing illegal things, is not going to help race relations, is completely and utterly dishonest, and makes you look racist in return.

Convicted felon with a handgun, killed by a police officer in a tussle, should be a no brainer. Unfortunate for this country people refuse to be honest about a situation and must resort to bigotry as if playing a tit-for-tat game with each other solves anything. Most black people in America are supposed to be Christian but some of us sure aren't acting like it, by choosing to ignore facts and the rules of engagement with law enforcement. You cannot fight racism with racism.

Martin and the blacks he protested with, would never fight police officers. They always reported them after they got released. Non violent was the right way to go to defeat racism in America. Shame that BLM people are making everyone take a step backwards by arguing with facts, logic, and laws that worked fine if responding peacefully.

Excelsior and others like myself saw the Brazil like future of American Blacks going against one another, from a class perspective. It's almost like that these days, but you have all these rich black idiots, and supposedly educated blacks, siding with the idiots that fight with police officers. I really think alot of that is tied in with the legacy of liberal politics and general blue pill ideology of victim mentality. Perhaps it won't be alot like Brazil, but some awkward hybrid that makes no sense whatsoever.

EDIT: I understand police tactics have been heavy handed in the past 5 years or so, but this is the wrong case, to start trumpeting that as a need for police restraint.

[RaccoonFace]

Reposting this again:

[FebGun]

#15. There is nothing really to talk about.

[Cosmonaut]

Quote:

Convicted felon with a handgun, killed by a police officer in a tussle, should be a no brainer.

none of us really know what happened, so we can just go by the video, but I saw a man already pinned to the ground by two police officers. is possession of a firearm and a criminal record grounds for an execution by law enforcement like that? I would say no. apparently the other guy in MN had a license and even told the police officer he was carrying. Police shouldn't be shooting citizens like that. Personally I wouldn't want to live under a government where the police can behave this way, and a public that seeks to justify the misuse of force. whatever these guys did wrong, I don't think it justified them losing their lives over it.

I can understand the police are scared as hell when on the job, but I wonder to what degree american gun laws play a role in that. Guns are everywhere.

[BassPlayaYo]

I guess it's just alpha to not give a flying fuck when another human being gets killed. You can always justify your lack of empathy by focusing on stuff about the dead person you learned after they been killed while you watch the horror unfold before your eyes. I think that makes it easy to reconcile your cognitive dissonance, making okay something that is totally not okay. Just remember when shit like this hits close to your home, you may not be so smug about it. Lastly, Martha Stewart is a convicted felon...WNB.

[nomadbrah]

(07-07-2016 03:50 PM)Space Cowboy Wrote:  

I'm sorry but when is reaching into your pockets justification for being shot by law enforcement?

What is is that is difficult to understand? It's America, where perps carry and use guns all the time. I can find 10 videos in 5 minutes of criminals shooting cops when pulled over.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q...e+from+car

[Cosmonaut]

(07-07-2016 05:08 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 03:50 PM)Space Cowboy Wrote:  

I'm sorry but when is reaching into your pockets justification for being shot by law enforcement?

What is is that is difficult to understand? It's America, where perps carry and use guns all the time. I can find 10 videos in 5 minutes of criminals shooting cops when pulled over.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q...e+from+car

these men didnt shoot cops

[Days of Broken Arrows]

It's actually more a gender issue than a racial one. The one statistic never discussed is that with virtually all of these high-profile death-by-cop cases it was a man who is killed.

Might not seem a big deal, but flip the script. If it were all women who were killed, you bet the media would be screaming "gender bias!" every second.

This brings up the uncomfortable issue that the manosphere has dubbed "The Pussy Pass." The fact that women do less time than men for committing the same crimes (source) and are less likely to be arrested to begin with.

I'd like to see the media frame the subject like this but I won't hold my breath.

[FebGun]

Cops were not so quick to shoot when Orlando massacre was in progress. Sure, it was dangerous.

[TravelerKai]

(07-07-2016 04:54 PM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:  

I guess it's just alpha to not give a flying fuck when another human being gets killed. You can always justify your lack of empathy by focusing on stuff about the dead person you learned after they been killed while you watch the horror unfold before your eyes. I think that makes it easy to reconcile your cognitive dissonance, making okay something that is totally not okay. Just remember when shit like this hits close to your home, you may not be so smug about it. Lastly, Martha Stewart is a convicted felon...WNB.

Your reasoning is like that of a child. Grow up. There is plenty of proof he was in the wrong.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=488_1467769512

Watch the video again. You can hear the cops say "He has a gun!" while he is down, then they told him not to do it, then they fire on him. Too blurry to see what his hand did, but real talk, what person is going to get the benefit of the doubt after fighting the police like he did?

Do you even know Louisiana law? If you do not have a license to carry a gun, you may only carry the gun openly in plain sight (in a holster or by shoulder if a long gun). Carrying a pistol in your pocket is concealed carry, not open carry.

A person with a felony crime is barred from owning a gun within 10 years of the time they complete their punishment, whether prison or parole. The state supreme court upheld that law back in 2014.

Lastly, convicted felons are NOT allowed to obtain a permit to carry firearms on their person.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/res...isiana.htm

You cannot just walk around with a fucking gun, ignorant or in open defiance of the law, and expect to get away with it! Especially if you physically resist arrest! These are not valid excuses people! No jury in America will convict a police officer for murder in a situation like this.

Martha Stewart does not have anything to do with this. Don't try to appeal to our emotions by using a woman who was guilty of a white collar crime and compare it to some man who allegedly brandished his weapon (what caused the police disturbance call). Gun rights vary by state and this man did everything wrong in Louisiana. It's no one's fault but his.

EDIT: Convicts cannot open carry either:

http://www.laopencarry.org/faq.shtml

Anyone who is prohibited from owning weapons. In general, this means drug addicts, felons, those convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, and those under eighteen years of age. Louisiana does have some laws prohibiting possession of firearms, but Federal laws are more strict, so if you are OK by Federal law, you are likely OK by LA law.

[Delta]

Let me start by pointing out that statistics do not back up the Black Lives Matter movement. There is no epidemic of white police officers executing innocent black men. Thus far in 2016, 566 people have been killed by a police officer. 136 (24%) were black, 279 (49%) were white. Considering that roughly half of violent criminal offenders are black, these numbers do not show any police bias against black individuals; in fact, they may indicate the opposite. Also, the absolute numbers are extremely low. One would assume that the overwhelming majority of these shootings are justified regardless of the victim's race, leaving a truly tiny number of cases where an innocent black man was gunned down by a police officer. There are other dangers that are orders of magnitude more hazardous to young black men, not the least of which is other young black men. So in conclusion, the BLM movement is incredibly dishonest and/or ill-informed, and doing far more harm than good by stroking racial tensions and instilling fear on both sides.

With all that said...

This video is highly disturbing. They have the guy pinned to the ground. I can't imagine how there could be a need to shoot him when two officers are on top of him like that. The Philando Castile video is also very disconcerting, considering that the officer (and girlfriend) make no effort to give the guy first-aid and slow down his bleeding.

Let's not allow the stupidity of BLM cloud our judgments of individual cases; these two may be the real deal.

[Goldin Boy]

(07-07-2016 02:29 PM)Saccade Wrote:  

These threads always go bad after a certain point.

Some Facts:
Alton Sterling was convicted of "carnal knowledge of a juvenile" in the year 2000 and was a registered sex offender.
[Snip]
According to documents found here Alton Sterling was in a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old when he was 20. Apparently, they dated for 7 months and Sterling got her pregnant.

He also owed $25,000 in child support:


Looking through the court documents above you can see that he's been convicted of battery, illegally possessing a firearm, burglary, and domestic abuse. Among other things...

Of course, when I searched for "Alton sterling" to get some news about this I clicked on the first article on google, CNN's article.

At the end of the article, there's mention of his criminal record. No doubt CNN wouldn't leave out his glaring past?

Oh...

I wouldn't have known any of this or investigated it if Mike hadn't posted it on his twitter... makes you think.

Can you please explain to me how offenses Sterling was tried and convicted for previously are relevant to the altercation at the store? I don't think they are...unless info comes out that they cops were going to arrest him for the outstanding child support tab. If you're trying to argue the shooting was justified you're going to have to do better than that.

The guy who owned the shop was interviewed(below) and claims that he saw the confrontation go down and that Sterling didn't pull a gun and it was in his pocket until an officer reached in and took it out.

Even more interesting, the cops confiscated the store's surveillance camera footage(and the cameras themselves) without presenting a warrant. That's police-state shit right there.

Guy was probably a low-life sex offender but that doesn't mean that the shooting was justified.

[AntiTrace]

(07-07-2016 06:33 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 02:29 PM)Saccade Wrote:  

These threads always go bad after a certain point.

Some Facts:
Alton Sterling was convicted of "carnal knowledge of a juvenile" in the year 2000 and was a registered sex offender.
[Snip]
According to documents found here Alton Sterling was in a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old when he was 20. Apparently, they dated for 7 months and Sterling got her pregnant.

He also owed $25,000 in child support:


Looking through the court documents above you can see that he's been convicted of battery, illegally possessing a firearm, burglary, and domestic abuse. Among other things...

Of course, when I searched for "Alton sterling" to get some news about this I clicked on the first article on google, CNN's article.

At the end of the article, there's mention of his criminal record. No doubt CNN wouldn't leave out his glaring past?

Oh...

I wouldn't have known any of this or investigated it if Mike hadn't posted it on his twitter... makes you think.

Can you please explain to me how offenses Sterling was tried and convicted for previously are relevant to the altercation at the store? I don't think they are...unless info comes out that they cops were going to arrest him for the outstanding child support tab. If you're trying to argue the shooting was justified you're going to have to do better than that.
.

Prior convictions are definitely an issue to consider in these situations. Not only does it establish a history of poor decision making, it increases the likelihood of resisting arrest, which in turn can lead to tragic shootings such as these.

All I know is the cops in both situation are 100%, without a shadow of doubt, guilty of murderous hate crimes. I know this because all the graduates of Social Media Law School told me this after viewing 60 seconds of video from one perspective.

[Matrixdude]

Funny isn't it? That the people bitching and moaning on social media about police brutality are the same people who preach for gun control - effectively taking away our right to protect ourselves from Tyranny.

[MMX2010]

Matrix dude,

Not just gun control, but also a host of invasive laws against forms of speech which require massive police action to enforce.

[Gustavus Adolphus]

It's really hard to tell from limited video what's going on, but it's a shame that our society has fallen this far. Life was never fair and police brutality has been going on a long time. I still remember the first time I realized the squad cars removed "Protecting and Serving Our Community" from the back bumper.

All I see now is a dedication to hysteria and fear. Fear from saying anything and doing anything, or the world puts it on blast and makes an example out of you.

And what's the most frustrating is the way you can hear that here is a huge issue of corrupt police officers, but not all Muslims are bad so don't just put them all in the same category- all in the same breath. There are people of poor character in any scenario if the number gets big enough.

I am extremely cautious of all situations where I know that if I deal a bad hand, things could go bad quick- I just try to get through them as quickly as possible or avoid all together.

[Goldin Boy]

(07-07-2016 06:42 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Prior convictions are definitely an issue to consider in these situations. Not only does it establish a history of poor decision making, it increases the likelihood of resisting arrest, which in turn can lead to tragic shootings such as these.

All I know is the cops in both situation are 100%, without a shadow of doubt, guilty of murderous hate crimes. I know this because all the graduates of Social Media Law School told me this after viewing 60 seconds of video from one perspective.

Fair enough. If you prefer to cherry-pick tangential data points and hold them up as facts to support your pre-existing viewpoint (you had nothing to say about the shop owner's account of the incident) that's fine.

I prefer to use relevant data and eyewitness testimony to help me form my opinions so there's nothing more for you and I to discuss.

[Off The Reservation]

(07-07-2016 06:56 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Matrix dude,

Not just gun control, but also a host of invasive laws against forms of speech which require massive police action to enforce.

These tyrannic SJWs will want a militarized police to enforce their wishes. Local police can send a kid home who skateboards in the wrong place with a warning, militarized police say "I was just following orders" and are not allowed to think for themselves.

Remember that BLM leaders hacked messages where he prays for martial law and a 3rd Obama term?

[deus_ex]

(07-07-2016 11:54 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 11:05 AM)deus_ex Wrote:  

I'm not trying to race-bait or anything, I'm just saying, race relations have worsened so much in the past few years, and it's always an us vs them mentality; the media always has a field day when they have the opportunity to demonize white people and police officers because their heads are so far up their asses. What do you think can be done to stop this madness?

Just so you know, it is looked down on around here to begin race-based threads when you have a low post/rep count. Just saying.

Fuck me, I should have known better, the last guy who posted a race-based thread like this had no rep whatsoever and got the banhammer. Please Overlord Roosh, do not b& me, I just wanted some opinions, I have opened Pandora's Box, I shouldn't have, I repent, please no, not the banhammer noooooooo

Hopefully when I wake up tomorrow I'll get a nice little "Thread Closed" and we can all be on our way.

[Grodin]

Both deaths should be investigated completely. The prosecutors should do their job and leave the job of defending the cop up to the cop's lawyer. Personally, I hope their is an indictment for a change.

The shooting in LA is murky. My initial thought is that it was excessive force but there are so many "what ifs" left unresolved. If for example the big man had a gun in his pocket and was reaching for it as he tried to sit up, then the officer may have been acting in defense. I'm not going to armchair quarterback that decision. The shooting in Minnesota is harder to defend, even rhetorically. It seems clear to me based on the information we have, but it still should be left to people that have all of the information.

^ none of the above opinion matters. With the information I have my opinion is basically meaningless but I do think we should stand together when potential misuses of power result in a dead citizen. This time it happened to a couple black men but it happens to men of other races daily as well, and almost without fail there is no indictment and therefore no trial. Guilt or innocence should be determined by the justice process, but without an indictment the process doesn't hardly begin.

Last thing I was to say is that the girlfriend's "cold" response does not tell us anything. There are many reasons people act emotionless including in times of shock.

[AntiTrace]

(07-07-2016 07:32 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(07-07-2016 06:42 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Prior convictions are definitely an issue to consider in these situations. Not only does it establish a history of poor decision making, it increases the likelihood of resisting arrest, which in turn can lead to tragic shootings such as these.

All I know is the cops in both situation are 100%, without a shadow of doubt, guilty of murderous hate crimes. I know this because all the graduates of Social Media Law School told me this after viewing 60 seconds of video from one perspective.

Fair enough. If you prefer to cherry-pick tangential data points and hold them up as facts to support your pre-existing viewpoint (you had nothing to say about the shop owner's account of the incident) that's fine.

I prefer to use relevant data and eyewitness testimony to help me form my opinions so there's nothing more for you and I to discuss.

Relevant data, such as having prior convictions? That's not relevant?

And what about the shop owners account? That the cops took the security footage? Most likely to be used in a future investigation. If they were stupid enough to take the footage and destroy it, it will come out during the investigation and will be a very negative mark in their defense. And it doesn't sound like the shop owner protested too hard about the search warrant, pretty much just glossed over quickly in the interview. The only thing of interest to me in that interview was owner saying he was willing to turn the video over to someone other than the police. Sounds to me like hes trying to cash for the footage, I expect to see an 'exclusive' leak of it soon.

I tend to side with cops when I see people resisting arrest. That's my bias, I recognize it, and attempt to prove my bias wrong. When I saw the video and the outrage I was a bit taken back...well I was a bit distracted at first, had a 19 year old blonde in her panties laying across my lap while she showed it to me on facebook. A ballet girl, the kind with that slim body but that softball girl ass...as beautiful as the setting sun.

Anwyay, got distracted again, the comments and everything was the typical outcrying, damning the officers and calling for their heads, every social media lawyer preaching about this shit or that shit. It make sense, it was a shocking video and people were emotional, I got that. However when I saw the video, and simply said there is not enough information in a 60 second clip of two cops trying to subdue one man to determine fault. I personally don't think the shooting was necessary, but I wasn't there and I think it's pretty poor taste to judge the actions of a person in a life or death situation from a 60 second video clip.

The most shocking thing to me, is the raw video footage. Never have I seen that raw of footage shown on live television/social media. The demands of compliance from the officers, the shouts of seeing a gun, the screaming and multiple gunshots, that cops rolling on the group, the camera panning back to a man on his back gasping for breath with open chest wounds spilling blood across the ground. It was very real, you could imagine yourself there. It was also very obvious the officers were in fear of their lives. So take that for what its worth and think of my last sentence of the paragraph above.

Never can I remember that shocking of footage being played to the masses. Which furthers my opinion that the media is pushing this to distract everyone from other things. A photo of a cop laying on the ground point his gun at a bleeding out black man sure does sell a lot of ratings.

But you're right, you and I have nothing to discuss. Because you have your bias and are looking to confirm it as opposed to challenge it. I'm just gonna go enjoy the decline of western society while I wear a Trump hat and throw a solid seven roper into the same crusty hand towel from last week while I handsaw it to some lesbian porn. Interracial of course, cause I love me them ebony bitches.