[SteezeySteve]

Kai can you post a video of that weighted exercise for that nerve/ jaw?


And as far as neck work goes I liked that video because it showed some different variations and movements into and out of the bridge. Thats the key with it. Obviously you master your two basic bridges but after that theres so much more variation,moment,and opportunity from it. I think thats a better route to go than weighted neck work because it will give you more strength in odd ranges of motions and situations,its more fun,and you still increase strength because you cant support harder variations with out making it stronger.

[TravelerKai]

(11-26-2018 09:46 PM)Ringo Wrote:  

@TK I think you might find enjoy this.

This guy Eero Westerberg - who I believe has been posted about before, he's big into movement, mobility, etc - went to Taiwan to train with a kung fu master called Jiang Yu Shan, aka Hisham Al-Haroun.



I found the body hardening and the chinese medicine-based post-training practices very interesting.

The master's hands and forearms are as hard as rocks. In one of the videos you can see Westerberg comparing hands with him - he couldn't even pinch the skin on top of the master's hands it was so thick and hardened. It's like he's wearing armor.



This guy could probably block a hit with a tire iron and come out with just a bruise, if that. Yet everything is still fully funcional, he didn't lose mobility on wrists, fingers, and so on.

And the master also trains in different martial arts, competes and teaches self-defense, he's not a looney on his mountain top.

It was an interesting perspective into a world I'm not familiar with at all.

I think it's a three-part series - the other videos are on VAHVA's Youtube page.

Yeah that was an interesting video. Strange to see an Arab dude doing that. I bet his Mandarin is awesome too. Even nowadays you probably need some decent Mandarin if you want to learn from certain experts.

His hands are ugly as fuck like Master Pang's hands are. The power is cool but there is always a price....

The white guy looks familiar from somewhere, I cannot remember.

[TravelerKai]

(12-04-2018 02:56 PM)SteezeySteve Wrote:  

Kai can you post a video of that weighted exercise for that nerve/ jaw?


And as far as neck work goes I liked that video because it showed some different variations and movements into and out of the bridge. Thats the key with it. Obviously you master your two basic bridges but after that theres so much more variation,moment,and opportunity from it. I think thats a better route to go than weighted neck work because it will give you more strength in odd ranges of motions and situations,its more fun,and you still increase strength because you cant support harder variations with out making it stronger.

Here is one from Shane @ Fight Tips Channel

You can also make one just for your neck and do those.

You can also do pull ups on a bar with some small weights hanging down your neck too. You get to work your lats, delts, and traps along with the neck doing this.

Only thing I will recommend from Shane's video is to do this stuff SLOWLY! Do not do this exercise fast!

I cannot stress this enough. Plenty dudes have neck and back issues from BJJ/Judo/Wrestling etc. so be careful and never overdo it.

Bridges are good, but they are slow. Like super slow and they are also body weight.

So let's step back and look at this from a S&C standpoint. Even a bodybuilder worth his salt will back me up on this.

If you are going to the gym and lifting weights for your chest, back, shoulders, arms, legs, etc. Why on Earth would you do a body-weight exercise for your neck? Because it is fragile? That's a bad answer. If you only did bodyweight excercise for your legs and used weights for your upper body, wouldn't your body look like shit? You would have chicken legs. Same principle goes for the neck. Don't skip neck day.

Look at guys in the NFL like James Harrison going so far to put weights on his waist!

Anthony Joshua uses chains on a kettlebell. (skip the first 40 secs)

Floyd does it too, but his video is silly. He is bobbing his head to rap music while doing it to show off to the reporters. The point is that he still does it.

When it comes to S&C, you have to be "wholebody" strength as much as possible and you have to highly avoidant of unequal S&C practices to avoid getting injured.

This is a very big topic, but if we look at the NFL for example, you get guys coming out of training camp pulling hamstrings left and right. S&C coach usually gets blamed for it. In an NFL training camp the S&C coach is responsible for running a program. Star players can get away from it sometimes, but regular players have to do what the S&C coach says. If he has guys doing too much of one thing and not enough of another, or similar issues, guys will sometimes end up with the same injuries. When you see 3-5 guys, on the same team, pulling hamstrings, tearing pectorals, etc. it's not a coincidence.

Ever see a lifter work out his quads and hamstrings, does squats, etc. but never ever does calf raises? He better hope he never steps on a venomous snake and try to run away, dude might might over-torque and tear a tendon in his ankle or foot.

I hope I did not confuse you. This is a bigger question than just bridges vs weights.

[TravelerKai]

Just to clear up a little bit, the bridge still has multiple points of contact on the mat. The neck weight lift is iso (isolated) and you can directly target the neck muscle itself, which is why you need a small amount of weight to start with, compared to your body weight for the bridge. That is why the neck weight is technically better or more efficient.

[ChicagoFire]

Thanks I didn't know boxers can have relaxed arms. My instructor never drilled that principle in me. Learn something new everyday

(12-04-2018 02:43 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 02:06 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  

Systema stresses relaxed body. If you punch under that system it assumes you were severely injured and you're punching at 50%. That's the best way I can explain it since I'm still fairly new to it and the instructor would tell me I'm tensing up my shoulder when I punch (hence punches from the shoulder). From what a fellow student told me after years of doing systema his boxing punches have gotten significantly stronger. You will see on youtube clips that some of these Russians can break wooden boards.

I understand you're punching from your body when boxing but you're still tensing up under that system. I'm not knocking on boxing it's just that there's no correlation between boxing and systema.

(11-28-2018 10:54 PM)Trumpian Wrote:  

Chicago fire, could you expand more on systema style punching?



I wouldn't say boxing punches are from the shoulder. You square your shoulder on the release, but it's a whole body movement really starting with a foot pivot.

Nobody punches harder than boxer so I'm curious how systema does it. Unless they're making adjustments for bare knuckle, which has some significant differences.

Relaxed arm is a precursor to un-bendable arm technique. Punching with relaxed arms yields a stronger punch with much less physical exertion (effort).

Some pro boxers have relaxed arm punching so do not think it does not exist in boxing, just that it varies greatly on who trains you. Floyd and Loma both box this way just some quick examples. If you watch film, watch Floyd and Loma and look at their check jabs and short thrown check hooks. Terrance Crawford and Leo Santa Cruz are some other less known boxers you could watch and see those same punches. Leo Santa Cruz is so fucking relaxed he is often smiling while he is fighting.

Un-bendable arm is the natural progression for internal strength, commonly seen in Chinese Martial Arts systems. The best pro/sport example of someone using this would be hands down Anderson Silva. Lyoto Machida is another good example as he floats between the two punch styles thanks to his Karate style. Israel Adesanya might have this skill as well but I am not 100% certain of that yet. For non-sport examples of people like this, too many people to list and most are hardly famous.

[Trumpian]

(12-04-2018 02:06 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  

Systema stresses relaxed body. If you punch under that system it assumes you were severely injured and you're punching at 50%. That's the best way I can explain it since I'm still fairly new to it and the instructor would tell me I'm tensing up my shoulder when I punch (hence punches from the shoulder). From what a fellow student told me after years of doing systema his boxing punches have gotten significantly stronger. You will see on youtube clips that some of these Russians can break wooden boards.

I understand you're punching from your body when boxing but you're still tensing up under that system. I'm not knocking on boxing it's just that there's no correlation between boxing and systema.

(11-28-2018 10:54 PM)Trumpian Wrote:  

Chicago fire, could you expand more on systema style punching?

I wouldn't say boxing punches are from the shoulder. You square your shoulder on the release, but it's a whole body movement really starting with a foot pivot.

Nobody punches harder than boxer so I'm curious how systema does it. Unless they're making adjustments for bare knuckle, which has some significant differences.

The only tensing in a boxing style punch is at the very end of the movement. My fist wouldn't be entirely clinched until impact. Any tensing before that you're going to lose significant power, not to mention tire yourself needlessly.

Quote:

Un-bendable arm is the natural progression for internal strength, commonly seen in Chinese Martial Arts systems.

You mean this akiddo technique? I couldnt think of a real world application for it, and have definitely never seen a ufc fighter use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHCXrAqtKD4

[Atticus]

Sorry guys, I can't embed this video, but a very interesting gun disarm where the would be shooter is killed by his own firearm.

I can't really discern the "style" of the intended victim turned shooter, but he has a good knowledge of balance and body dynamics.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news...r-13689024

[TravelerKai]

(12-07-2018 03:13 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 02:06 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  

Systema stresses relaxed body. If you punch under that system it assumes you were severely injured and you're punching at 50%. That's the best way I can explain it since I'm still fairly new to it and the instructor would tell me I'm tensing up my shoulder when I punch (hence punches from the shoulder). From what a fellow student told me after years of doing systema his boxing punches have gotten significantly stronger. You will see on youtube clips that some of these Russians can break wooden boards.

I understand you're punching from your body when boxing but you're still tensing up under that system. I'm not knocking on boxing it's just that there's no correlation between boxing and systema.

(11-28-2018 10:54 PM)Trumpian Wrote:  

Chicago fire, could you expand more on systema style punching?

I wouldn't say boxing punches are from the shoulder. You square your shoulder on the release, but it's a whole body movement really starting with a foot pivot.

Nobody punches harder than boxer so I'm curious how systema does it. Unless they're making adjustments for bare knuckle, which has some significant differences.

The only tensing in a boxing style punch is at the very end of the movement. My fist wouldn't be entirely clinched until impact. Any tensing before that you're going to lose significant power, not to mention tire yourself needlessly.

Quote:

Un-bendable arm is the natural progression for internal strength, commonly seen in Chinese Martial Arts systems.

You mean this akiddo technique? I couldnt think of a real world application for it, and have definitely never seen a ufc fighter use it.

Yes the clenching or tensing up at the very end of a punch is standard practice for boxing/MMA/etc. Over committing to every punch you throw will wear you out very quickly. Also increases chances for injuries. Hard to also utilize feints and movements if you were to punch hard with every punch.

Yes that Aikido master is showing the correct technique principle, but that is just the basics, an introduction if you will. The advanced ki control use version(s), are to use that same level of ki in the form of a punch or kick. The power it generates is multiple times at least, stronger than a regular punch, using only your muscles and body weight. If that Akido master was very good at this, he could have that guy hanging off his arm for at least 2 seconds. Can you imagine punching someone with that amount of energy directly harvested into the arm?

In other news Aikido people use unbendable arm. I actually did not know that about them. It makes sense but I just never saw any that were that advanced or knowledgeable on internal strength. Thanks for sharing that.

Discovery Channel or National Geographic, I forget which one, hooked up infrared, EKG, and other equipment to measure this stuff on kung fu masters and found that they can indeed measure and pick up the phenomenon of it.

[Trumpian]

(12-14-2018 04:12 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(12-07-2018 03:13 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 02:06 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  

Systema stresses relaxed body. If you punch under that system it assumes you were severely injured and you're punching at 50%. That's the best way I can explain it since I'm still fairly new to it and the instructor would tell me I'm tensing up my shoulder when I punch (hence punches from the shoulder). From what a fellow student told me after years of doing systema his boxing punches have gotten significantly stronger. You will see on youtube clips that some of these Russians can break wooden boards.

I understand you're punching from your body when boxing but you're still tensing up under that system. I'm not knocking on boxing it's just that there's no correlation between boxing and systema.

(11-28-2018 10:54 PM)Trumpian Wrote:  

Chicago fire, could you expand more on systema style punching?

I wouldn't say boxing punches are from the shoulder. You square your shoulder on the release, but it's a whole body movement really starting with a foot pivot.

Nobody punches harder than boxer so I'm curious how systema does it. Unless they're making adjustments for bare knuckle, which has some significant differences.

The only tensing in a boxing style punch is at the very end of the movement. My fist wouldn't be entirely clinched until impact. Any tensing before that you're going to lose significant power, not to mention tire yourself needlessly.

Quote:

Un-bendable arm is the natural progression for internal strength, commonly seen in Chinese Martial Arts systems.

You mean this akiddo technique? I couldnt think of a real world application for it, and have definitely never seen a ufc fighter use it.

Yes the clenching or tensing up at the very end of a punch is standard practice for boxing/MMA/etc. Over committing to every punch you throw will wear you out very quickly. Also increases chances for injuries. Hard to also utilize feints and movements if you were to punch hard with every punch.

Yes that Aikido master is showing the correct technique principle, but that is just the basics, an introduction if you will. The advanced ki control use version(s), are to use that same level of ki in the form of a punch or kick. The power it generates is multiple times at least, stronger than a regular punch, using only your muscles and body weight. If that Akido master was very good at this, he could have that guy hanging off his arm for at least 2 seconds. Can you imagine punching someone with that amount of energy directly harvested into the arm?

In other news Aikido people use unbendable arm. I actually did not know that about them. It makes sense but I just never saw any that were that advanced or knowledgeable on internal strength. Thanks for sharing that.

Discovery Channel or National Geographic, I forget which one, hooked up infrared, EKG, and other equipment to measure this stuff on kung fu masters and found that they can indeed measure and pick up the phenomenon of it.

This is something I'd like to believe in, but why aren't these masters then becoming boxers breaking orbital bones for $10 million a pop?

[TeachNExplore]

Because it is bullshit

[TravelerKai]

Tilman and his brother had shaolin monks and similar actually apply to fight in the UFC but they turned them away as a liability. They wanted to make the sport more streamlined and get away from the sideshow/circus stuff.

They knew some of those guys could likely kill a fighter and cause a huge mess. They were not stupid. You do not become a billionaire by letting unknown and unpredictable people participate when there is nothing to lose by telling them to take a hike.

Call it bullshit all you want, but men that can break rocks barefisted holding an uncracked egg is a serious liability. Heck even back in the Pride days, there were some barefisted Karate fighters that wanted to fight in Pride and even UFC that were not allowed to fight. Japan had some weird karate fighters that were from those circles, but even guys like Fedor, Rampage, Axe Murderer, etc. and some of the Brazilian dudes were juiced outta their minds and could stomp some of them. They did not test for shit, so a dude on synthetic test, Deca, Dianabol, Tren, etc. has bones and muscles harder than 99.99% of men on Earth.

Is it a coincidence that the UFC is not as good as used to be before the USADA doping testing? Many legends getting suspended? Look at Brock Lesnar's body right now. Everyone is talking about how different he looks now that he is off the sauce.

Things are not always what they seem.

[Trumpian]

I still wanna see one video of these Shaolin monk types beating a boxer, Thai boxer, MMA fighter, etc.

I've scoured YouTube and can't find one. If they can punch "2-3 times harder" it should be an easy task.

There's a 40 yr old MMA guy in China (and a pretty mediocre one at that) who's been going around the country beating the shit out of these "masters". I'd really like to see a legit one come out of hiding and show off some of the techniques.

[TeachNExplore]

I tend to be on the same wavelength of thinking as Trumpian in his previous post.

The reason I tend to gravitate towards wrestling, BJJ, boxing, MT, kyokushin, etc is the evidence that it works with a non cooperative training partner or opponent. Theres is physical evidence that the more time you put into the discipline, the better you are at actually beating people up or defending yourself. Not so much with the chi or ki based martial arts that remind me of magic and wishful thinking more than a fighting system.

Can TravelerKai or any proponent of ki or chi or unbendable arm or systema, etc please post a video of them hitting a bag or going against a partner who is not fully compliant?

I may have called bullshit earlier, but I am trying to remain open minded.

[Richard Turpin]

I'm also generally of the view that I like to see real-world applicability against resisting opponents.

However, I'm fully aware of my own limited Martial Arts knowledge so don't want to dismiss it.

Part of this apparent real-world/tournament imbalance between Traditional and Sports-based MA's, may to some degree be explained by the length of time it takes to train either of them; TMA's can take decades, whereas you can make very quick progress in boxing/wrestling in mere months.

I dunno. I found Judo to be fairly practical generally speaking. But one of the Judo lads also had Aikido training and he showed me that 'unbendable arm' one day. Could I fuck bend his arms! He was tall, light and lanky and didn't lift, yet had me flummoxed. Like others, I can't see the applicability of this, but I found it fascinating. And still do.

[ChicagoFire]

I tried Eskrima through a trial class and it's fun and can seriously hurt someone. I'll repeat that again, just from my FIRST CLASS I can badly hurt somebody. I've studied multiple MAs and this is a first. Biggest con TK has mentioned is it isn't wise to carry knives or sticks around for legal reasons. I don't remember if he stated this but I read somewhere Eskrima is used to conduct political assassinations in the Philippines. I can see why. I might study this system more in tandem with systema, it's really interesting.

I still attend systema classes. This will take at least a couple months but I want to get really good at systema. So far I've been punched in the mouth, got whip massaged, and nearly passed out because we train in a small room and there were more people than usual haha. Better bleed now then when SHTF! I can already patch people up with my trauma kit so the more skills the merrier

[Dalaran1991]

A cautionary tales for ya all. My roommate just got attacked by a gang of low life.

My roommate is a boxer, pretty good one at that and he s very aggressive. And ego driven. There lies the problem.

As he crosses the kebab right next door, a black guy looked at him funny. My roommate in his ego told the guy "whats your problem?" And keep walking. The guy followed him with his friends and jump him later, giving him no time to respond znd gave him some bad wounds on the head. Currently at the police station now, going to check for head concussion asap.

Guys, please be careful. I don't care how much boxing/mma you know, it will not save you in the street. Not when you get ambushed by 4 gangsters who grew up beating each other up. My roommate was really lucky he didn't got stabbed or shot.

If you cross these people dont look at them, dont approche them and for god fucking sake do not provoke them.

[RespirationVaginale]

Yes, never meddle with unknown blacks and arabs in France. They are animals.

When I was 18 in high school, at the end of the afternoon I was lounging at the school exit with my friends. Some arab guy from another school that I had never seen before came to talk to me looking for fight (apparently he had talked to other guys before but couldn't get a fight). Couldn't bear hearing his guetto talking and he was alone so fair enough, I dealt with this crassy monkey. Put him on the floor then kicked him in the face with my shoe.

This loser left like a hurt camel, vociferating insults at me saying "I'm dead". A few guys of my school talked to me and said they knew him, his friends are crazy, always street fighting and he knows a lot of people in the city. "Il connait du monde!". I began to get scared especially since was not used to dealing with that sort of people. We literally had ZERO black guys in my private school, maybe one or two non-guetto arabs if I remember well.

One or two days later he came back with 10 friends to beat me up. Of course I didn't show up at the exit (used a secret backdoor from the courtyard), and next day I talked to the provisor about the situation and he called the arab guy's school. Nonetheless, I was a WANTED guy, couldn't go out at night anymore in my city with by friends because they were actively looking for me. Just because of a basic monkey.

To conclude, go back to the first sentence of my post. By the way I've never had any issue like that with white people. Always fair fights. But I have countless stories like that about arabs and black people (especially arabs. Blacks are more likely to get into solo-rage mode instead of gathering 100 midgets with knives).

[Trumpian]

The "gentleman's duel" is a solely Western code.

Every other people I've encountered find nothing unfair about grouping up on a guy 10-1. And that's why we're being overrun. Collectivism beats even the strongest of individuals. Anyway, don't want to derail a great thread so I'll leave it that.

I'd still say a competent striker can dispatch 2-3 untrained (and unarmed) opponents quite easily. Quite a number of vids on youtube of boxers doing just that.

[Parzival]

The gentleman's duel or one on one is a myth. Sure it happen, I've seen a group of Skinhead attack a single person, migrants do it, left wing people do it. Its a common thing. Also on a beer festival you have people that crush your skull with a beer mug, or you get into a fight and some friends from your or the other side jump in. Only a few people have this one on one codex. Random people will stick with their friends.
Or when I hear the stories of older people when they had be in their early ages. You go to a different village, the locals beat you up, sometimes iron bars and chains involved. Or you cross the wrong side of the town. This one on one is a modern legend that in this case don't happen regular nor did it in the past.

[Trumpian]

^It may happen, but it's considered a dirty move in Western countries. Totally acceptable in the rest of the world. That's the difference.

It's not a legend. I can't speak for Germany, but in the U.S if two guys get violent there's an unspoken rule (amongst WASPy types anyhow) that other people not intervene.

That's changing due to cultural enrichment. You can't " Shall we step outside and settle this?" with a 3rd worlder. Just gives them time to call their friends or find a knife. I get so much as the stink eye from those types, I knock them out. Violence is the only language they seem to understand.

[Parzival]

Of course the general opinion is that it should be a fair fight, its a common way to view things here. Just say that the reality is not always like that. Also the concept of a "fair" fight on the street is an oxymoron. What people fight about is mostly not for a noble reason nor is it a sport with a judge. Consider that you can even die in some cases when you get a slap with an open hand and you fall wrong.
I agree that with enrichers you have to be a way more careful.

[KC4]

I think this quote applies to when it comes to street fights.

"You learn to have a really good sucker punch, and a really good 50 yard dash"-Jorge Masvidal

[Repo]

(12-23-2018 06:52 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  

^It may happen, but it's considered a dirty move in Western countries. Totally acceptable in the rest of the world. That's the difference.

It's not a legend. I can't speak for Germany, but in the U.S if two guys get violent there's an unspoken rule (amongst WASPy types anyhow) that other people not intervene.

That's changing due to cultural enrichment. You can't " Shall we step outside and settle this?" with a 3rd worlder. Just gives them time to call their friends or find a knife. I get so much as the stink eye from those types, I knock them out. Violence is the only language they seem to understand.

Have you ever actually witnessed this though? Because between two strangers I certainly haven't, and I've witnessed quite a good deal of fights here in the US.

[ElFuerte]

If you want to be able to defend yourself in the street, you need:
1) boxing
2) wrestling to avoid being taken down
Everything else is less effective in street situations, and some things like aikido are downright useless.

Here's a great video by Jocko on real martial arts that actually work

[Subtext]

This is a great list, OP. The most interesting thing to me is the principle of "internal strength". What are the various avenues I can take to learn internal strength most directly, and how do I spot bullshido peddlers?