[TravelerKai]

Utterly ridiculous. None of these videos includes anything involving weapons defense. No boxing gym on Earth advertises boxing as a self defense system for a reason.

No military on Earth uses only boxing as a full suite for self defense and combat training.

Maybe you live in Europe or somewhere else where fist fights are the most threats but that is not the tactical reality of the vast majority of the world.

Believe whatever you want to but don't try to pawn off a very restricted sport as adequate for complete self defense. No one legit that works in this field would ever support this claim and their are young men out there reckless enough to assume so and may get killed attempting to utilize boxing to defend against a deadly threat.

Don't forget there is a poster from the UK, in this thread, that already posted a story about a pro boxer in his camp was in critical condition from a neck stab from a tiny thug. You cannot punch or even kick yourself out of every situation.

[TravelerKai]

(10-30-2018 08:36 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 02:18 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 10:16 AM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(10-21-2018 07:06 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(10-20-2018 06:34 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

Yeah, I see what you are saying. My biggest motivation is self defense but would like to compete also to sharpen my skills.

If you are too old for Muay Thai at 30, Boxing is the same at 35-40. By then you need to be out of the sport or training for personal fitness maintenance.

You can get sharp and improve by sparring. You do not need actual official pro ring matches to get better. Amateur matches either.

I don't think some of you know how dangerous fighting is, especially boxing. Plenty of you would lose your insurance policies if they find out you had a blood vessel rupture/swell that hospitalized you or killed you.

Young men with high testosterone could break your jaw at the low end of what could happen to you. You might as well be a woman fighting a grown man. Your bone density may not be dense enough to handle that. Get your T levels and bone density levels checked first if you still want to fight so badly. You don't have to piss test to spar at a gym either. If you want focus mitt training, find someone that will take your money for private lessons. You don't need time with Freddy Roach. Plenty of trainers or other former pros train people for money.

If you want self defense skills for the street, boxing does not supply that. Learn something else instead. Fight smarter not harder.

I'm going to respectfully disagree on that, one of the most useful ones IMO.

Right because you can always punch your way out of getting tackled, getting stabbed by a knife, getting hit by a glass bottle, or anything else by bobbing and weaving jabbing and hooks. Look this is not a matter of sheer opinion like pretending your gender is a helicopter. Let's not be intellectually dishonest here.

TK, I've got 30 years of boxing, wrestling and various fighting arts, my street experience in some VERY tough neighborhoods with very dangerous people, over 20 years of police work, 10 of it where I was in some kind of hand to hand combat at least 3 times a week (and sometimes 3 times a night).

You've got a LOT of knowledge and some great insights, but there are certain ends of the game I'm going to understand better than you and this is one of them.

Even when I wasn't directly using boxing (which as you can see, works very effectively on it's own) it made almost every kind of stand up fighting I did that much more effective. It made everything I did faster, hit harder etc.. Anything that involves timing, distancing, any time some one is trying punch you, you can handle it that much better. It's a concept SBGI's Matt Thornton calls "Aliveness".

I've had many students over the years, and a lot of the most street effective stuff I can teach them is going to be boxing. It's one of the most intuitive and efficient things you can show anyone. And if you read a lot of the old boxing manuals, it was traditionally taught as self defense (the "Manly Art of Self Defense" to be specific) as much as sport, with all kinds of street specific self defense aspects that a lot of people don't fully appreciate.

And I'm not trying to Anonymous Internet Big Ball you, my privacy is important but you're a very respected guy and I'm happy to PM my real name with searchable records of a lot high level competition and training, and you can decide yourself if I've got the competence to be talking about the stuff I am.

I have no way of knowing how legit your background is, but I fail to see how what I have done is less than yours like you claim. Pretty arrogant of a claim really. When I have spent years training special forces and Marines combat fighting with knives and unarmed. The guys who I trained did tours in Fallujah and they would laugh at this. Dudes that ran out of ammo at times and had to go hand to hand.

They all told me what I taught them gave them a massive edge. I have given information on my background in my original post and that is all anyone is getting from me. I cannot take risks getting doxxed by you or anyone else. This thread is just a resource for the forum for guys looking for good advice from my decades of experience. Nothing more. If you still think boxing is better than everything else for street or combat more power to you.

[DarkTriad]

(10-30-2018 08:48 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Utterly ridiculous. None of these videos includes anything involving weapons defense. No boxing gym on Earth advertises boxing as a self defense system for a reason.

No military on Earth uses only boxing as a full suite for self defense and combat training.

Maybe you live in Europe or somewhere else where fist fights are the most threats but that is not the tactical reality of the vast majority of the world.

Believe whatever you want to but don't try to pawn off a very restricted sport as adequate for complete self defense. No one legit that works in this field would ever support this claim and their are young men out there reckless enough to assume so and may get killed attempting to utilize boxing to defend against a deadly threat.

Don't forget there is a poster from the UK, in this thread, that already posted a story about a pro boxer in his camp was in critical condition from a neck stab from a tiny thug. You cannot punch or even kick yourself out of every situation.

Quote:

No boxing gym on Earth advertises boxing as a self defense system for a reason.

Really? A quick google search showed me some immediately

Quote:

Whether you want to learn boxing as a hobby, for self defense, to become a better athlete, to test yourself in carefully supervised matches for charity or become an amateur or professional fighter, our FighterTechnique Program will drive you to achievement.

https://www.koboxingusa.com/

http://www.ringboxingclub.com/classes

https://peterwelchsgym.com/boxing-training-boston-ma/

They don't usually have to advertise that angle that much because it's so obvious that it's useful for self defense.

Quote:

No military on Earth uses only boxing as a full suite for self defense and combat training.

Again, don't strawman me, I didn't make those claims, we had a specific dispute about it's usefulness for self defense, so I gave a bunch of graphic, undeniable, and dramatic examples of it's usefulness for self defense. If you think those were staged pro wrestling events, then you've got an argument, otherwise those are absolutely self defense. Too late to try and and move the goalposts now.

Quote:

Maybe you live in Europe or somewhere else where fist fights are the most threats but that is not the tactical reality of the vast majority of the world.

I was a cop in a large American city full of guns, knives and murder. I'm telling you what my personal experiences were, my professional experiences were, and the experiences of my team mates from several different gyms were (many of whom were our most effective and productive criminals and murderers). My city was noted for recruiting organized crime enforcers from boxing gyms, largely because everyone with experience respected boxing for it's practical use on the street. Perfect? No, and never claimed by me, but it's extremely useful, even for things you didn't expect it to be. The rest of my time I spent filling out reports and paperwork documenting all the violent assaults in my city.

Quote:

Believe whatever you want to but don't try to pawn off a very restricted sport as adequate for complete self defense.

Again, never claimed by me, you stated

Quote:

TravelerKai - If you want self defense skills for the street, boxing does not supply that.

.

Then I stated that I respectfully disagreed, and provided vivid examples of it doing just that. Consistent with my extensive experience, likely as extensive as yours if you feel like talking by PM. That's what our argument is here is, if you want to have some other debate, I'm happy to address it on a separate string of posts here.

Quote:

Don't forget there is a poster from the UK, in this thread, that already posted a story about a pro boxer in his camp was in critical condition from a neck stab from a tiny thug.

And every other hand to hand fighting system has had similar situations, sadly, none of them make you bullet proof and stab proof.

[DarkTriad]

(10-30-2018 09:11 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 08:36 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 02:18 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 10:16 AM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(10-21-2018 07:06 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

If you are too old for Muay Thai at 30, Boxing is the same at 35-40. By then you need to be out of the sport or training for personal fitness maintenance.

You can get sharp and improve by sparring. You do not need actual official pro ring matches to get better. Amateur matches either.

I don't think some of you know how dangerous fighting is, especially boxing. Plenty of you would lose your insurance policies if they find out you had a blood vessel rupture/swell that hospitalized you or killed you.

Young men with high testosterone could break your jaw at the low end of what could happen to you. You might as well be a woman fighting a grown man. Your bone density may not be dense enough to handle that. Get your T levels and bone density levels checked first if you still want to fight so badly. You don't have to piss test to spar at a gym either. If you want focus mitt training, find someone that will take your money for private lessons. You don't need time with Freddy Roach. Plenty of trainers or other former pros train people for money.

If you want self defense skills for the street, boxing does not supply that. Learn something else instead. Fight smarter not harder.

I'm going to respectfully disagree on that, one of the most useful ones IMO.

Right because you can always punch your way out of getting tackled, getting stabbed by a knife, getting hit by a glass bottle, or anything else by bobbing and weaving jabbing and hooks. Look this is not a matter of sheer opinion like pretending your gender is a helicopter. Let's not be intellectually dishonest here.

TK, I've got 30 years of boxing, wrestling and various fighting arts, my street experience in some VERY tough neighborhoods with very dangerous people, over 20 years of police work, 10 of it where I was in some kind of hand to hand combat at least 3 times a week (and sometimes 3 times a night).

You've got a LOT of knowledge and some great insights, but there are certain ends of the game I'm going to understand better than you and this is one of them.

Even when I wasn't directly using boxing (which as you can see, works very effectively on it's own) it made almost every kind of stand up fighting I did that much more effective. It made everything I did faster, hit harder etc.. Anything that involves timing, distancing, any time some one is trying punch you, you can handle it that much better. It's a concept SBGI's Matt Thornton calls "Aliveness".

I've had many students over the years, and a lot of the most street effective stuff I can teach them is going to be boxing. It's one of the most intuitive and efficient things you can show anyone. And if you read a lot of the old boxing manuals, it was traditionally taught as self defense (the "Manly Art of Self Defense" to be specific) as much as sport, with all kinds of street specific self defense aspects that a lot of people don't fully appreciate.

And I'm not trying to Anonymous Internet Big Ball you, my privacy is important but you're a very respected guy and I'm happy to PM my real name with searchable records of a lot high level competition and training, and you can decide yourself if I've got the competence to be talking about the stuff I am.

I have no way of knowing how legit your background is...

You absolutely have a way of knowing how legit my background is, that's why I wrote this earlier.

Quote:

And I'm not trying to Anonymous Internet Big Ball you, my privacy is important but you're a very respected guy and I'm happy to PM my real name with searchable records of a lot high level competition and training, and you can decide yourself if I've got the competence to be talking about the stuff I am.

...so you can professionally evaluate my competence to have this discussion with you, just so we can avoid an acrimonious internet dick measuring contest.

Quote:

... but I fail to see how what I have done is less than yours like you claim.

???????????

Scroll up, I never claimed it. I said I was "likely" equal (that's NOT "better) and have invited you to investigate it privately because I respect you too much.

Quote:

Pretty arrogant of a claim really.

It's arrogant for anyone to claim they might be your equal? There are many people out there better than either of us, who is being arrogant if they say the very idea of being your equal is arrogant?

Quote:

When I have spent years training special forces and Marines combat fighting with knives and unarmed. The guys who I trained did tours in Fallujah and they would laugh at this. Dudes that ran out of ammo at times and had to go hand to hand.

They all told me what I taught them gave them a massive edge.

I don't doubt it, you obviously have a lot of knowledge.

Quote:

I have given information on my background in my original post and that is all anyone is getting from me.

Nobody is asking anything of you. You're the senior guy on this forum (and this thread) I was offering to give you my info so you could evaluate my competence privately, that's it. We've had a lot of quality discussions here, and I trusted you with my info.

Quote:

I cannot take risks getting doxxed by you or anyone else. This thread is just a resource for the forum for guys looking for good advice from my decades of experience. Nothing more. If you still think boxing is better than everything else for street or combat more power to you.

I've never made that claim.

Peace.

[TravelerKai]

In other news,

Konstantin allegedly got stabbed to death in a street fight in Russia. He was a bodyguard.

This is a great example of how power cannot compensate for a lack of force multipliers and deadly force threats. This is a guy that can squish some people's heads like a grape! Dude could deadlift damn near 1000 pounds. I remember watching some of his lifts in the past. Dude was a beast.

Knives are very serious threats on the street. Easy to conceal, quick and easy to use, although difficult to master, and even the largest and strongest men on Earth are not immune to their effects. Muscles do not trap knife blade edges in-between the fibers.

Dominate Disarm Deflect/Generic CQC, JJJ, Krav Maga style, Hapkido, FMA/Silat style Aikido, or Russian Systema style. There are many different approaches to knife threats, I highly recommend everyone to add something to whatever it is you primary train to be ready. Guns may not be in every country, but knives are in every country.

If you are going to be a professional bodyguard, handgun licenses are a must, a backup knife or talon, and quite possibly cut proof garments underneath or kevlar if legal in your country. Pepper spray or other non lethal options sometimes are good, but I do not recommend those for use against deadly threats, unless that is all you have.

On top of that, first aid skills and possibly a tourniquet. That's an area I am trying to get more training on. Field medic type stuff seems to be just as valuable as the fighting itself.

[Richard Turpin]

That's very sobering to read about Konstantin Konstantinov. It does really drive home how vulnerable even the biggest and baddest individual is outside of a controlled, sporting environment.

I remember having this realisation late in life. That fights outside of the gym are to be absolutely avoided wherever possible.

Yes, guys like Konstantinov would destroy most people in a fair fight. But outside the gym and dojo, people are out to win fights by any means necessary. A good way to understand this is to flip it; say something terrible happens to a loved one and you are out for revenge against a single individual. Imagine that you didn't just want them beaten up, instead you wanted them gone. In this scenario, you wouldn't challenge them to a fist fight! And then shake hands after one of you submitted!? No, you'd go in tooled up and in numbers so as to get the job done. You aren't interested in scoring points, or impressing anyone, it's literally just business that has to be sorted out. Well, this is exactly how the criminal element etc are thinking! All the time! And it's completely alien to how the average Joe who's been working hard on his Kimura recently thinks! Us normal folk just aren't cut from the same cloth as the bad guys and would be better served improving our people skills and situational awareness first and foremost.

And then there are crazy people of course.

But really, this is just something you have to find out for yourself. When you are young you think you are indestructible anyway so none of what I've just typed will fully sink in. Martial Arts (with aliveness and sparring) are great educators in the meantime though! I thought I was a bona fide tough-guy before getting my ass handed to me time and time again on the mats. Paradoxically, I was probably more dangerous pre-martial arts in the sense that I would be more ready to rumble at the slightest provocation. Not nowadays though, no way; you can't tell who you are fucking with and it just isn't worth it.

[Pytonga]

TravelerKai I am looking for some advice.
I'm 40 yrs old in ok shape and I would like to start some training (Martial Arts? boxing?)
Just for myself I want to learn how to defend myself and keep fit.
I am not thinking about competitions.
Long time ago I had 2 years stint in Karate Shotokan.

40 yrs old means that recovery takes longer and I want to try to avoid injuries. Any suggestions -where I should go? Which sport.
Thank you

[TravelerKai]

(11-05-2018 10:53 AM)Pytonga Wrote:  

TravelerKai I am looking for some advice.
I'm 40 yrs old in ok shape and I would like to start some training (Martial Arts? boxing?)
Just for myself I want to learn how to defend myself and keep fit.
I am not thinking about competitions.
Long time ago I had 2 years stint in Karate Shotokan.

40 yrs old means that recovery takes longer and I want to try to avoid injuries. Any suggestions -where I should go? Which sport.
Thank you

The question is not about "which sport". That is not an appropriate answer for the question you posed.

If you want self defense, pick one of the systems for self defense listed in the original post. Your flag shows the UK. Do you want self defense for possible knife attacks? If I were you I would. The UK has more stabbings than pretty much every other European country and more than the US for sure.

Knife heavy offense and defense styles are FMA/Kali/Silat and Russian Systema.

Knife heavy defense are Japanese Ju jitsu.

If you like boxing alot, you could go the Krav Maga route. That would cover your fitness requirements as well. They tend to have sparring and full contact in the classes. That brings me to a point I forgot to make years ago about KM. If you go visit a KM class and they do zero sparring of any kind, leave and find another one. Even some of the fake KM schools have sparring in them.

In the UK walking around with your own knife has legal risks from what the others have shared. You may want to make certain that you are able to disarm the knife and be able to use it against the attacker(s) as well.

Don't just go through the motions and curriculum in a school without getting what you need in terms of skills. If you have to spend money to get a private lesson to cover a special set of skills, so be it or try another style/school.

It's your own ass, make sure you get it covered.

After you have trained for a while, asses what you learned and where you may want to fine tune. Never hurts to check out a BJJ school for 6 months to a year. Most fights end up on the ground. You may find out that you are useless on the ground even if you are good at Krav Maga for many years. One of the good things about BJJ is that white stripe and blue belts are not manhandled by regular or normal people on the street. Does not take years to be able to use BJJ at all.

Hope this helps.

[Thot Leader]

(04-26-2018 10:59 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

I was training with a competitive BJJ purple belt tonight and he mentioned it was his fourth training session. I asked him, “today?” and he said yes.

This shit is truly mind-blowing and at the same totally matter of fact: this guy tools me up worse than most black belts. He hardly breaks a sweat and does almost whatever he wants to me. I literally have never given him anything resembling a fight.

So when I heard that he’s training up to 4x/day, well...That makes sense. I train 4-6x/week and this dude does 3-6x as much as me. No wonder he is light years ahead.

Martial arts (or anything) isn’t rocket science. The more you practice, the better you are.

I always wondered about guys like that, i.e. do they have day jobs? Even if they are professional fighters, they likely don't pay the bills from training and fighting. Most black belt instructors need day jobs. Even in my 20s when I had the energy to train all day, every day, my training was limited to evenings and weekends.

[Saweeep]

Krav Maga in the UK is similar to Americanised Karate for the over 40s.

i.e. complete bullshit

[Rocha]

(11-05-2018 10:43 PM)Saweeep Wrote:  

Krav Maga in the UK is similar to Americanised Karate for the over 40s.

i.e. complete bullshit

Same here. Just fat and/or old people...or women.

[TravelerKai]

(11-05-2018 10:43 PM)Saweeep Wrote:  

Krav Maga in the UK is similar to Americanised Karate for the over 40s.

i.e. complete bullshit

Ouch that stinks. If that is the case, he might have to look at something else and put together a system that works for him.

KM in the US can be hit or miss. Plenty of trash gyms and some with those mixed in with Crossfit stuff with women for teachers. Basically cardio kickboxing with mental retardation and steroid taking women with yoga pants mixed in. Then you have the really good ones that have gun training mixed in with military style drills. Not in every state obviously, but at least it is an option for us.

He better try something other than plain ol boxing though. The UK is no joke. Whites, Blacks, Pakis, every group has tough as nails youth that can and will stab someone. Chavs in groups/packs too. You guys even have the occasional gun toting criminal. EE gangsters I almost forgot about that too.

No place is perfect to live in from a safety perspective, but you have to find solutions that make sense for your environment. Texas has everything from drunk highschoolers in the back of a pickup truck to MS13 face tatted Satan spawn that will shoot you in broad daylight, wait for the police and shoot them too.

It is a big tactical mistake to prepare for one threat and none of the others. Police officers are not there to save lives, yet alone yours. They are there to maintain order, governance, and collect revenue. The days of learning sai daggers, nunchuks, and swords for self defense, and get away with it, has come and gone. You could say the same about sport styles. It's ok to learn that kind of stuff for fun and fitness, but the basics for all threats must be covered first.

[Parzival]

With all the migrants in Germany we have a way more knife attacks now. They pass laws that it's more and more illegal to carry certain knives. When I was a teen they already ban butterfly knives and some other stuff. Also for a gas gun you need a license.
What the politicians don't get its that those vermin on the streets don't care at all. Situation awareness is the first and most important tool of self defence. To see what is going around you matters a way more then have all skills in the world. I want to choose when I use my skills, I want to act and not react. Of course its not always possible but behaviour patterns matter a lot. How do you walk? Where to you go? Whats your state of mind? Are you sober or drunk / on drugs? Go to the nightlife a lot? Hand around in a strange environment? Do you have temper issues? Do you know your body language? Do you have emotional control over your reaction / language in a stressful situation? Big mouth guy?
Do you have the mindset to turn on survival / aggression mode in your mind simple? I seen it a lot in sparring and in some fights. When someone get hit a lot of people break. And in a street fight with a drunk, when they miss a few times they are out of breath.
The most dangerous situation are here, are the illegals, refugees, migrants, vermin, scum or however you want to call them. They pack up, they use knives.

Next to this is the mindset, are you willing to go all in after the shock of the impact? I have to say when I do sparring I always hold back, mostly more then I should because I have no intention to harm anybody. When I got into trouble in the past I used fast force and aggression with the skills I have. I'm glad that my last confrontations are more then a decade ago.
And I know the way how I appear, what I send out is not a victim nor an aggressor vibe.

I get myself a book about vital points. TravelerKai mention Dim Mak a few times, so I get into it a little deeper. Always was curios about pressure points and after some Karate Training in Okinawa I could feel how it works.

   

[Buddydowrongright2]

(11-07-2018 06:18 AM)Parzival Wrote:  

With all the migrants in Germany we have a way more knife attacks now. They pass laws that it's more and more illegal to carry certain knives. When I was a teen they already ban butterfly knives and some other stuff. Also for a gas gun you need a license.
What the politicians don't get its that those vermin on the streets don't care at all. Situation awareness is the first and most important tool of self defence. To see what is going around you matters a way more then have all skills in the world. I want to choose when I use my skills, I want to act and not react. Of course its not always possible but behaviour patterns matter a lot. How do you walk? Where to you go? Whats your state of mind? Are you sober or drunk / on drugs? Go to the nightlife a lot? Hand around in a strange environment? Do you have temper issues? Do you know your body language? Do you have emotional control over your reaction / language in a stressful situation? Big mouth guy?
Do you have the mindset to turn on survival / aggression mode in your mind simple? I seen it a lot in sparring and in some fights. When someone get hit a lot of people break. And in a street fight with a drunk, when they miss a few times they are out of breath.
The most dangerous situation are here, are the illegals, refugees, migrants, vermin, scum or however you want to call them. They pack up, they use knives.

Next to this is the mindset, are you willing to go all in after the shock of the impact? I have to say when I do sparring I always hold back, mostly more then I should because I have no intention to harm anybody. When I got into trouble in the past I used fast force and aggression with the skills I have. I'm glad that my last confrontations are more then a decade ago.
And I know the way how I appear, what I send out is not a victim nor an aggressor vibe.

I get myself a book about vital points. TravelerKai mention Dim Mak a few times, so I get into it a little deeper. Always was curios about pressure points and after some Karate Training in Okinawa I could feel how it works.

Do not engage someone with a knife, ever.

[ChicagoFire]

The world is getting more dangerous than ever, it's practical to learn about self defense and first aid. I personally have a beginner's level of BJJ and boxing and how to administer basic first aid. Just found this on udemy:

https://www.udemy.com/user/chrispizzo/

Guy has close quarters training videos and his writing is pretty over the top. Anybody take them? I'm open minded to learning this stuff and like TravelerKai said close quarters combat isn't exactly something a civilian can easily obtain. If he even has 80/20 principles that would be more than enough.

[Dalaran1991]

Yeah, TK makes a pretty good point about the best self-defense: GTFO of a dangerous situation.

On that note, has anybody here ever had to run for their life? Can you describe how that feel? Would running as fast and as smart as you can be enough to always get out of a situation against bigger foe intent on killing you? With a gun? Without a gun?

I do sprints a lot but you don't know just how fast/how long you can run when you are running for your life. The adrenaline/survival instinct can roid up your body to unimaginable level.

[SteezeySteve]

Dude i've jumped an 8 foot barbwire fence (Into the yard then out of it) to get away from someone one time and didn't feel shit despite barbwire slicing up my hands and tearing through my shorts.(Funny Highlight,but i've also had to get away and not jump any fences)

All you feel is utter fear and chaos thrown into your legs and thank god that you train once you get the pace. That 30 second atp fueled initial jump you get propels you twice as far as it normally would and the sustained run afterwards is only marginally slower than you'd normally experience. You have superhuman unlimited endurance to run extremely fast for longer periods of time and don't feel fatigued until you know you're safe.

Its like playing a game of man hunt while doing a really weird hill sprint that doesn't slow you down or make you tired......you won't slip and if you do you'll get up in time without stopping.

[Dalaran1991]

^yeah, ive heard very similar stories. Just go to show when its fight or flight, always choose flight. Discretion is the better part of valor. The only thing that might get hurt is your ego, not your life.

Having said that I live in Paris, says Im out in the street packed full of people cant even move my arms (welcome to Chatelet) and I heard Allahuh. Is the most obvious thing the best, aka running for my life barging people out of the way and hopping into the nearest cover running with my heads down? Does it change if the guy got a gun? When does going to ground and keeping your head down and dont fucking move applies?

Things like this should be taught more in self defense class rather than secret one - punch techniques.

[TravelerKai]

(11-11-2018 09:08 AM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  

The world is getting more dangerous than ever, it's practical to learn about self defense and first aid. I personally have a beginner's level of BJJ and boxing and how to administer basic first aid. Just found this on udemy:

https://www.udemy.com/user/chrispizzo/

Guy has close quarters training videos and his writing is pretty over the top. Anybody take them? I'm open minded to learning this stuff and like TravelerKai said close quarters combat isn't exactly something a civilian can easily obtain. If he even has 80/20 principles that would be more than enough.

Hang on brother. CQC training is very possible to get in the USA. Maybe not in Chicago but, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, etc etc. Pretty much every southern state and many Midwestern states.

The confusion is sometimes that different training schools call it different things. Some call it room clearing, active shooter, advanced fighting gun, swat, advanced self defense, and all kinds of other training names. Would take me all day to list all the ones I have seen or heard about. Some Krav Maga groups do it too. Some are Systema based. All schools with operator training is CQC. Some are only open to law enforcement and military personnel some are not.

The only way to know for sure is to call them and ask them about the training and all the classes and curriculum. If they teach you gun fighting with martial arts together that is a sweet spot often times. Nothing covers your ass like a class on gun fights behind cars, concealment and cover, and then sweeping a house. If someone in melee range jumps on you they should have techniques to cover the melee aspect. If not keep digging or modify with seminars that do.

For the Europeans and other non Americans, if this sounds insane, we can carry handguns, knives, and even a AR rifle loaded between the front seats or trunk. All legal and no problem in many states.

[Trumpian]

Best form of self defense is a tidy 300 metre dash.

If you do have to throw down, learn how to throw powerful elbows and knees. Muay Thai basically. Kicks and punches aren't ideal in a street fight for a number of reasons.

With all these 3rd world shit stains carrying knives though, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to learn one of the Filipino martial arts as that's what they specialize in.

Swear to the gods, if I hear about anymore knife attacks in Europe I'm gonna go full crusader. Armor, longsword, and all.

[Parzival]

(11-12-2018 11:06 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

For the Europeans and other non Americans, if this sounds insane, we can carry handguns, knives, and even a AR rifle loaded between the front seats or trunk. All legal and no problem in many states.

I support the right for own guns but I'm still glad that we don't have the danger you have here in the US. When you read about some guy get killed by a knife or beaten to death its all over the national news. With the sexual assaults and rapes it get a little lower but still a hot topic.
In Berlin there are sometimes killings in the criminal milieu, Arab clans, Bikers. Also not all issues are migrant related, drunk Germans can be an issue as well and at Monday you can read the police reports about the weekend. There are regular brawls, sometimes some people get heavy injuries.

Now since I'm back in Germany its ridiculous what you have to do these days to get a gun license. You have to be accepted in a shooting club, then be one year a member till you can apply for a gun license. Armed robberies or armed burglaries are not very common, burglaries so far on a high level. For general fights, when you are not in the nightlife nor a woman jogging somewhere alone the risk to encounter violence is still very low.

[TravelerKai]

Wooo I had to share this video for sure. I'm not a Joe Rogan fan but he and I agree on this sooo much. Drives me fucking insane as an instructor and I have personally had heated situations about this very fucking thing.

Guys, if you go to a school and they do not drill you enough until you could do something perfectly blindfolded, either find a better school or drill yourself. Don't fall into the trap of wanting to spar or roll for fun and never master the techniques.

I mean, I get it. Nobody wants to punch the mitts for hours or the bag. Nobody wants to apply a boring armbar 100 times in one day. I get it. We all do. But all this crap where guys come in and want to spar more than half a practice or roll on the mat with each other truly kills the sport.

Don't believe me? Think about it. How many BJJ places can you go visit and see the same dumb bad habits? Joe Rogan sees the same shit I used to see when I go visit BJJ places too. 2 examples, ok let's wrestle. Are you serious?

Look at the LACK of competent BJJ Black Belts in the UFC right now. Are there any legit dude that are rolling dudes up with stunning JiuJitsu? There are no Nogs, No Bravos, No BJ Penns in the pros and it's not the entire fault of UFC paying bonuses for knockout of the night. They do have a submission of the night bonus too. Believe it or not, but if you are too much of a ground fighter, they do not give you less fights compared to strikers.

It's just shitty BJJ culture. A bad one.

I might be harping on BJJ mostly, but kickboxing honestly isn't any better. I see all kinds of bad fundamentals.

[SteezeySteve]

I agree Kai,but things are the way they are. wrestling rooms are filled with angry highschool kids beating the shit out of each other 5 days a week for months so that they can beat the sit out of kids on the weekends. No one wants to lose and everyone wants to win. It takes a certain level of toughness and discipline fostered in a competitive environment to get someone to drill a double leg every single day for 30 minutes (especially when your body will hurt in the SAME exact spot you land when you are on the receiving end of the take down multiple times). In a wrestling room your just a fucking pussy and don't belong on the team if thats an issue.

In bjj culture rolling isn't as hard on the body as explosive scrambles and take downs found in wrestling so you can get away with sparring more. Also wrestling is a seasonal sport where you compete even if injured as long as you don't have a broken bone or large tear in a tendon. Drillers may be killers,but I think part of placing in the state level is just surviving to place without an injury taking you out (Injury rates in wrestling increase with as competitors become more skilled). You are less likely to get injured while drilling(on the opposite hand I think long term drilling of the same few moves actually promotes injury in long term wrestlers) than going live.

Bjj is supposed to be fun and gyms need to profit. Most people who train aren't even going to compete at all. Normal dudes who want to stay in shape and train are most practitioners. Also the roots of bjj just seems to have more in common with surf culture than spartan culture(hence all the places with good waves being loaded with bjj schools)...non of the gracies are angry farm boys from Iowa....they're beach cats from brazil.


Also right now in mma I think the new development is movement complexity and diversity promoted by the likes of ido portal. And I may be uneducated on this matter so call me out if wrong but even bravo seems to be more into developing new techniques and methods (I.e. rubber guard ) than encouraging people to drill intensively.

Now as far as pro fighters go that makes sense. If you want to be the best and compete you should have no problem drilling for as long as it takes in order to make sure when you do 'x' on a fighter that knows its coming and prepared for it in his camp it still works.

[Trumpian]

A BJJ blackbelt is a BJJ blackbelt. The reason why you don't see that many submission specialists in the UFC anymore is it's a borderline useless martial art against a good wrestler (aka...the art of not getting taken down).

Demian Maia, who was an ADCC champion, was like 0/28 for takedown attempts in his last 3 fights. All against wrestlers.

I think the results in the UFC over the last few years has revealed a misplaced reverence for eastern martial arts. Wrestling is actually far older than any of them, and combined with some decent boxing (also older than any of them) spits out UFC champions all day.

Having said all that, I think Brian Ortega does have some slick jujitsu and is entertaining to watch which is rare for a BJJ guy.

[Trumpian]

(10-22-2018 04:20 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

On boxing for self defense, as Ive mentioned my roomate is a skilled boxer. In light sparring against bigger opponent he said there's very little he can do unless the guy is a total noob aka not keeping his hands up.
Plus, we discuss this often and we all come into the conclusion that boxing/striking is next to useless if you got a bigger guy flatly charges/bulldoze you.

Absolute rubbish. I've done boxing and muay thai. I'm not a golden glove or lumpinee champ. But there's half a dozen ways I could knockout a guy 50 pounds heavier than me (if untrained or novice). Bulk does not protect the chin. And if I wanted to be cruel, I could do much worse than knock the guy out.

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Last time in HEMA when I didnt get out of the way of a charging juggernaut I got fucking blasted off my feet and end up at the other side of the room. If I was really really good at Judo/Aikido I MIGHT have a slight chance of throwing him using his own momentum, but if I only know a striking art I'll just get flattened. Not sure just how good you gotta be to get to that level though.

Its called foot work man, and boxers have the best. If you know muay thai, it's even easier. Last time I had a charging bull come at me, I did a full power teep to his knee cap. Really the bigger they are the better in this scenario.

Quote:

Im the smallest in my aikido class and also one of the senior students. Every now and then Ill run into some newbies who are bigger and have less experience with combat, but are aggressive. Its almost impossible to perform a techniques on them without going for the occasional punch.

And this is why people dont take akido seriously.

If you took a middleweight (160lbs) who had placed in some regional golden gloves tourneys, and took him to a dive bar and said "find the biggest guy in here and pick a fight".

The big guy would swing and hit air for a couple minutes, rapidly gas out, and the middleweight would dance around toying with him for a bit. Then boom, counter and KO/TKO him. Every time.

Boxing is severely underrated for self defense. The foot work, speed, ability to find range, and sheer power they can generate via their hands would make even a middling boxer seem superhuman compared to a civilian.