[WannaBang]

Ok so this isn't going to be one of those generic 'which country has the most 9/10s open to foreigners' threads.

Basically I have been in Poland for almost 2 years and have got a grand total of 3 lays (3 from online - 1 with a 7, 1 with a 4, 1 from cold approach - a 6). And this is after putting in HUGE amounts of efforts (i.e 600+ cold approaches).

I'm a 5'7 white male from the UK who is definitely not blessed in the looks department (though I have decent style and a top 99.9% body i.e. jacked).

I am fortunate to be in the position where I could live in any country in Europe (that don't have visa restrictions for Brits anyway) and I am strongly thinking of moving to a different city. It would be 1 month to start to get an overall feel and see how the culture vibes with me as well as the girls (ease of integrating etc).

The question is where to go? Sometimes I get the feeling that despite my terrible results (I like to think my game is so-so but not terrible) Poland is probably the best country in Europe for getting girls. Bear in mind I'm not shooting for the 8,9,10s that you can only really get through social circle but 6,7s...

I prefer women who are open-minded, not rude and amenable to European foreigners. I have been to Kiev and Minsk but in both countries the cold approach feedback was unbelievably brutal.

What about the big cities in Romania, Lithuania, Croatia, Serbia, Hungary, Bulgaria etc?? If I struggle in Poland would I be a fool to think I'd do any better in other countries in Europe?

[leanmeansexmachine]

It is hard to tell for sure without knowing you, but given the profile you mentioned, i think you would struggle even more in countries like Serbia and Croatia. In Serbia people are very friendly, women will date a foreigner, but people are also very tall. I am 6 feet tall and i often feel short in Serbia.

I would give Romania a try, i found the women and locals to be very friendly, it is also very cheap. Cities look like shit though, the only reason to go there is for the people.

I disagree that Poland is the best or easiest place in Europe. I had better experiences in Hungary, Romania and Lithuania. And i am a good looking guy who does not need to try hard. Thing about Poland i have noticed is that it is alot like Western Europe. In countries like Romania, Hungary and Serbia, you can still find interesting cultures. I think that is also something you need to take into consideration. Poles are stuck in a bit of an identity crisis i feel.

I think maybe the best place for you would be somewhere like Thailand. I do not know enough about these places in Asia though so i will leave it to somebody else with more experience to comment. The visas situations there should not be a problem i think. I have a friend who has been living there for 3 years. Lives on tourist visas. Struggled with women in Europe but does very well there.

[Gpx90210]

Hmm. Asia and most places in South American you'll absolutely kill it. Asia especially. I'm actually going to Europe for the first time this year, so, I can't say.

Tried trolling tinder?

[JWLZG]

This is a pretty huge question, that can't be answered in a single word; let alone in a smart-arse manner.

Most of these countries, at least in 1st-2nd tier cities, already have standards of living, quality of life, and amenities to the level of the West, if not more, with the added bonus of greater safety.

Many facilities needed to sustain a living are greater than or equal to what you can find back home, with the exception of everything written in a funny language.

The factors to consider then are ancillary traits of the country of have in mind, relative to you and your needs and goals.

Whether all you need to sustain a living or more is confined to a notebook computer and your brain; or more, will factor into where you choose to move.

If not, what the city/country has to offer in regards to your occupation and upcoming plans for it will matter. If you are self-employed, drawing Western wages, or employed by a Western firm, there really isn't a limit.

I would posit that the breadth of extra-curricular options won't vary much per country, nor will it be seriously lacking. Which leaves life plans, your aptitude for the local language, your adjustment to the local culture, the women.

Looks may in fact matter more in Poland as it becomes more Westernised, even if it wasn't, it would definitely let you stand out from the subpar aesthetics of their men. If you were to remain, work on inserting yourself into a social circle that would bypass the need for looks. I'd suggest doing that wherever you end up in.

In your case, choose somewhere that doesn't place a premium on height and looks. On that standard alone, that would rule out Germany, Austria, Serbia, and possibly Czech.

Belarus, Ukraine, and maybe Romania would be your best bet in relation to your looks and physique. If language is a consideration for you, Romanian is way easier to learn than any Slavic language.

Myself, hard to say. Having covered half the CE/EE countries, I don't think I'm qualified enough to make a blanket assessment. And narrowing it down to one country is tricky.

I'd choose Ljubljana. Hot women, cheap property, huge English language penetration, not a fully alien culture, fantastic logistics, very accessible to the rest of Europe. It's surrounded by natural beauty - you have you pick of snow, forests, beaches within reach.

I loved Poland, whatever people say about it here, so Wroclaw might be my alternative were I a bit more au fait with it.

[WannaBang]

@leanmeansexmachine

Thank you for your detailed reply! I heard very similar about Serbia - the height thing is what puts me off. I was thinking also about Bucharest, Romania. What you said about the cities looking ugly but the people being friendly mirrors what I heard too. I did hear Romanian girls are like Italian girls in temperament but can't work out if this is a good thing or not.

It is funny because I trolled tinder for ages in Poland. In fact I once downloaded this app called 'toolsfortinder' which does all the liking for you. I deleted my profile (rebooted) and got 30 matches in Warsaw within 2 days (a LOT for someone like me!) although almost every girl I saw for a date turned out to be fat and below average. I tried this 'tools for tinder trick' in Vilnius, Budapest, Bucharest but was disappointed to see I got 10 matches thereabouts after several thousand likes. I think online dating in theory is a good way to build a 'foundation' of plates who are 5/6s so you have the illusion cold approach (to get 6/7s) is easier.

Anyway...

@Gxp90210

Trust me if I was at all into Asian girls I would be there right now. I wish there was some magic pill I could take which would make me into Oriental girl because I have no doubt as you say I would kill it.

South America I was thinking about for AGES! I even learned some basic Spanish. But after spending HOURS reading about Colombian girls on this forum it looks like a very low return on investment especially when you consider it is SO much more dangerous there and the girls are flakey as shit. I have a very low tolerance for bullshit and the one thing I love about Polish girls is they don't flake.

[Gpx90210]

Try Mexico City just for a vacation. Safe and easy pussy. Use Tinder to pipeline. Hey bro, I'll be in Romania later this year if you want to meet up. Send me a PM.

[WannaBang]

@JWLZG

Thank you for your reply my friend! I really appreciate you taking your time out to try and help me out here.


I should mention that I work offshore. This means I work a month then get a month off completely free. It isn't as exact as that but you get the idea.

So the way I wanted to approach this is to spend a month in a different country and spend the hours of the day learning the local language. And then by the end of the month have a good feel for whether I want to return for a 2nd, or 3rd month and so on... And of course the point of this thread is to soak up the local knowledge to ascertain which country would be the least waste of my time.

I speak almost intermediate Polish after putting in months of serious (albeit sporadic) effort into it so Russian is doable. I just was put off a bit by Minsk and Kiev because cold approaching was insanely tough.

I should mention also: I don't do nightlife/game, am introverted and prefer daily cold approaching as my primary means of getting girls (and online just to build a foundation)

Bucharest, Romania is fast looking like the best option here so far

[leanmeansexmachine]

I would not put too much into online dating. If you are not good looking it will not be good for you and your confidence. Just focus on presenting yourself as a intelligent interesting man, dress well, approach in daygame and social situations.

I can also recommend Budapest. Very interesting and beautiful city with alot of hot girls, quality better than Poland, English levels slightly lower. People are tall there aswell but i saw some short Chinese guy with a pretty girl there so if he can so can you.

Romania is probably the easiest place in Europe, atleast where i have been to, girls like foreigners and especially British men, this is good for you. They are not like Italians, more like a milder version of the Balkans.

[Gpx90210]

(06-09-2016 03:59 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

@JWLZG

Thank you for your reply my friend! I really appreciate you taking your time out to try and help me out here.


I should mention that I work offshore. This means I work a month then get a month off completely free. It isn't as exact as that but you get the idea.

So the way I wanted to approach this is to spend a month in a different country and spend the hours of the day learning the local language. And then by the end of the month have a good feel for whether I want to return for a 2nd, or 3rd month and so on... And of course the point of this thread is to soak up the local knowledge to ascertain which country would be the least waste of my time.

I speak almost intermediate Polish after putting in months of serious (albeit sporadic) effort into it so Russian is doable. I just was put off a bit by Minsk and Kiev because cold approaching was insanely tough.

I should mention also: I don't do nightlife/game, am introverted and prefer daily cold approaching as my primary means of getting girls (and online just to build a foundation)

Bucharest, Romania is fast looking like the best option here so far

BOOM. That's your problem dude. You can't just cold approach girls and except to get pussy. It's possible, yes. But its incredibly difficult and time consuming as fuck. Force yourself to go out man, have some beers. When I come out there I'll take you out. We will get some ass so you dont have to

[RawGod]

Bang a few Asian women and you will reprogram yourself to be into them. It took me about two years of living in Asia but I haven't looked back since. I'm about your height and if height is your flaw, it's a very rational choice. Moving to Asia is like instantly growing 4 inches.

[Gpx90210]

(06-09-2016 04:21 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

Bang a few Asian women and you will reprogram yourself to be into them. It took me about two years of living in Asia but I haven't looked back since. I'm about your height and if height is your flaw, it's a very rational choice. Moving to Asia is like instantly growing 4 inches.

+1

[GlobalMan]

(06-09-2016 03:43 AM)Gpx90210 Wrote:  

Hmm. Asia and most places in South American you'll absolutely kill it.

I really hate this kind of misleading advice from newbies.

Did you even read what the man wrote? :

Quote:

Basically I have been in Poland for almost 2 years and have got a grand total of 3 lays (3 from online - 1 with a 7, 1 with a 4, 1 from cold approach - a 6). And this is after putting in HUGE amounts of efforts (i.e 600+ cold approaches).

I'm a 5'7 white male from the UK who is definitely not blessed in the looks department (though I have decent style and a top 99.9% body i.e. jacked)

If that is his level of experience with women, and with results like that from 600 approaches, he won't "absolutely kill it" in most places in South America- He'll have the same results or perhaps even worse, maybe excluding Bolivia or parts of Ecuador.

(06-09-2016 03:56 AM)Gpx90210 Wrote:  

Try Mexico City just for a vacation. Safe and easy pussy.

That is a hell of a statement. Out of all of Latin America you're recommending Mexico City for "easy" pussy and safe? Or is it that you've only been there so thats why you chose it? I'd put Mexico City near the middle to bottom of Latin American destinations as far as "easy pussy".

Anyway, OP, there is something going wrong on a fundamental level if those numbers are accurate, something that won't be solved by going to new country. If you're not disfigured, which you're not, then you can be doing much much better than you are, especially if you say you have body in the "top 99.9%". There is some signal that you're giving off thats turning girls off before you start, or a social disorder perhaps.

This is not a slight against you, not at all- it's important to recognize your faults in order to work on them. And that is the most important thing- that for the most part a guy can work on his faults and achieve satisfactory results.

Theres more going on here obviously, I think you'd benefit from meeting one of our experienced member in your area to get a feel for whats going wrong.

[Gpx90210]

(06-09-2016 03:56 AM)Gpx90210 Wrote:  

Try Mexico City just for a vacation. Safe and easy pussy.

That is a hell of a statement. Out of all of Latin America you're recommending Mexico City for "easy" pussy and safe? Or is it that you've only been there so thats why you chose it? I'd put Mexico City near the middle to bottom of Latin American destinations as far as "easy pussy".

[/quote]

Yeah, only been to Mexico... I want to explore more of South America. Please continue with your list of rankings for SA...

[262]

(06-09-2016 04:35 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Theres more going on here obviously, I think you'd benefit from meeting one of our experienced member in your area to get a feel for whats going wrong.

OP, are you in Warsaw? I'm in Gdansk, and I know there are at least forum members in Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw, and Bialystok.

Also, looking at your posts, it should be noted that you've been in at least one relationship in Poland.

[GlobalMan]

Indeed there are quite a few members in Poland, great guys that would meet up.

I encourage OP to do so, there is a good chance that one of those guys could do more to tell you what's going wrong in 10 minutes than you'll learn in months figuring it out on your own.

Obviously approaching isn't a problem, and with numbers that high you should be seeing a better return. There is some kind of basic issue at play here that you may not be able to spot yourself and could benefit from another guy giving you feedback.

[WannaBang]

For anyone experienced with South/Central America, how do you find Mexico City (apparently the only safe part of Mexico assuming you are in the safe part of that city) compared to Colombia etc?

262, I've been transient between Warsaw and Krakow and to much lesser extent Poznan (even ran into Roosh once there). I haven't tested Wroclaw, Bialystok, Lodz or Lublin. I've been in a 1.5 year relationship with a girl I met in Rzeszow yes.

@Globalman

Yes this is what I am trying to work out. After all I left the UK because I hated the women there and thought that Poland would solve my problems. Funnily enough I got my first ever lay after 3 weeks and then sort of stayed there ever since (2014).

What you say makes sense a lot, especially about going to South America. Everything I've read on this forum (and I've spent MANY MANY hours) implies it would be a total waste of time going there if I struggle somewhere more or less considered not easy but doable (Poland)

As to something being wrong with me - yeah there must be. More likely a combination of small things. It is funny because I had almost 70 dates so far this year (1/2 from cold approach, 1/2 from online) and only got 3 lays (1 in Kiev) which is a horrendous rate obviously. So about 35 dates from 600+ approaches so works about 1 date per 20 approaches. The majority of those 600 approaches were completely solo - I don't have wing-men and typically don't have any player compadres to chill with (apart from 1 in Warsaw who is rarely available) which is arguably a moot point because it means I have to rely on myself for self-analysis. I was proactive though - recording my cold approaches with audio as well as dates.

I definitely don't have a social disorder. While I am blatantly low key and introverted, no-one I know whether an experienced player or otherwise says I am lacking on social skills or am weird or off-putting in an obvious way. 99.9% body I am only referring to musculature and of course it is mostly hidden by clothes.

[GlobalMan]

(06-09-2016 05:19 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

For anyone experienced with South/Central America, how do you find Mexico City (apparently the only safe part of Mexico assuming you are in the safe part of that city) compared to Colombia etc?

I would choose Colombia every time between those two. Thats not saying it's "easier" necessarily (though it can be), but there is a higher quality that is more attainable, if that makes sense. I wouldn't even have Mexico City on the radar to be honest. Not to say its bad, not at all, just that there are plenty of better choices out there.

[JWLZG]

OP, I was wrong to think you had a generic "Where would you rather go?" question in mind.

(06-09-2016 04:06 AM)Gpx90210 Wrote:  

BOOM. That's your problem dude. You can't just cold approach girls and except to get pussy. It's possible, yes. But its incredibly difficult and time consuming as fuck. Force yourself to go out man, have some beers. When I come out there I'll take you out. We will get some ass so you dont have to

(06-09-2016 04:35 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Anyway, OP, there is something going wrong on a fundamental level if those numbers are accurate, something that won't be solved by going to new country. If you're not disfigured, which you're not, then you can be doing much much better than you are, especially if you say you have body in the "top 99.9%". There is some signal that you're giving off thats turning girls off before you start, or a social disorder perhaps.

This is not a slight against you, not at all- it's important to recognize your faults in order to work on them. And that is the most important thing- that for the most part a guy can work on his faults and achieve satisfactory results.

Theres more going on here obviously, I think you'd benefit from meeting one of our experienced member in your area to get a feel for whats going wrong.

This and this. I think you've answered your own question. A 1/600 bang rate via cold approach (I'm guessing daygame?) is pretty sorry, considering your lifestyle. You're time-rich enough to have done more cold approaches than I have in my entire life, probably double, but I think that's because you're getting too comfortable in your time luxury.

Even so, GlobalMan in right in that such a low bang rate underlies some deeper issues which we're not cogniscant of, or you're not telling us. Unless you're ugly, it shouldn't be that hard getting laid in Poland, and moving elsewhere isn't going to make things easier. So much more needs to be emphasised on RVF that merely changing your location isn't going to change your circumstances.
I live in the country lambasted probably the most on RVF for the dating market, but I can still see short/ugly minority blokes dating 9s.

Have you tried getting into social circles? Maybe you play a sport. It looks like even joining a stamp collecting cub would marginally improve your chances of getting laid.

[369eyedea]

(06-09-2016 03:56 AM)Gpx90210 Wrote:  

Try Mexico City just for a vacation. Safe and easy pussy.

This made me spray tea all over my computer i laughed so hard. But what is a dangerous pussy? pussy that doesn't bite
And I think Mexico city is not what one would call safe Some Amores Perros shit will happen to the OP just kidding
and he wrote Central Europe! mexico city is a bit off his radar

[WannaBang]

JWLZG


Yes, all from daygame and as far of the time luxury thing, I should add I did almost all of those in the last 3 months. The previous year and a half I was in a relationship so obviously I didn't approach.

What country is that?

I don't do social circle game. Of course I try hard to get into circles but it is hard for me as I am introverted and get drained easily and I hate superficial friendships. Besides the whole appeal of game is not to rely on such methods which 99% of other men rely on

[262]

(06-09-2016 05:19 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

It is funny because I had almost 70 dates so far this year (1/2 from cold approach, 1/2 from online) and only got 3 lays (1 in Kiev) which is a horrendous rate obviously. So about 35 dates from 600+ approaches so works about 1 date per 20 approaches.

Sounds like your date Game is the issue, rather than your cold approach or Internet Game.

Though it's also possible you may not be filtering enough on the cold approach and/or Internet leads - resulting in dates to nowhere.

Obviously, diagnosing these issues is best done in person. But can you describe for us your:

1) Cold approach game (aside from it being day game, as I understand)
2) Internet Game
3) Date Game

[Pornopung]

Romania, or at least Bucharest, which is the only city I have experience from (spent 2+ months there), is definitely not easier than Poland. I did well there once I cracked the code, but nowhere in EE did I spend that long to get the flag (2 weeks). In Warsaw, 4 bangs in the first 9 days. My game improved between these visits, but still.

Romanian guys are smaller than Polish, but better looking faces. Girls more flaky and ONS is much harder - in my personal experience. However, in your favour since you don't do night game, the difference in difficulty applies more for night game than day/online.

Maybe smaller Romanian cities are easier, but they seem small and boring compared to 2nd tier Polish cities such as Wroclaw.

I've been to most of the places you mention as alternatives, and to be realistic your results will probably be similar or worse in all of them. Maybe Ukraine is a good option if you just want one cute girlfriend rather than a player lifestyle, guys look much worse than the Polish and girls are better looking, but more conservative.

Just try out Philippines or Thailand. That magic pill you want is right there in front of you - go and bang some cute, tight, submissive Asian pussy. Like many others here I wasn't particularly into Asian pussy before I actually went there. Is not banging EE pussy better than actually banging Asian pussy? I get pretty good results in EE, both quality and quantity wise, but I'm still longing back to SEA.

Do you show of your jacked body in your online dating profiles? Asian girls got wet instantly when I sent them some pics of my abs, EE girls are usually harder to impress.

Did you try gaming on beaches? Wherever you can show off your body, if that's your best feature.

[WestIndianArchie]

Visit the game board and you could stay in Poland.

WIA

[ChickenLover9T9]

(06-09-2016 04:35 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Anyway, OP, there is something going wrong on a fundamental level if those numbers are accurate, something that won't be solved by going to new country. If you're not disfigured, which you're not, then you can be doing much much better than you are, especially if you say you have body in the "top 99.9%". There is some signal that you're giving off thats turning girls off before you start, or a social disorder perhaps.

This is not a slight against you, not at all- it's important to recognize your faults in order to work on them. And that is the most important thing- that for the most part a guy can work on his faults and achieve satisfactory results.

Theres more going on here obviously, I think you'd benefit from meeting one of our experienced member in your area to get a feel for whats going wrong.

This is exactly what I got from the very first post. I like how experience really shines through on this forum. Other places on the internet for "game" advice would probably tell you to spam more approaches or do some absolutely stupid pseudoscientific shit to improve OP's poor results.

I know this forum is heavy on changing location, and for many men that is the solution after some hard work in the new market.

For other men though the problem lies within the self and is consistent across all markets. You may get much better results in the Philippines but you would get far, far better results in that same country, or Poland or Slovakia or Romania, wherever you go basically, if you are able to identify and solve the internal problems. Because 2 years, 600 approaches, 3 lays with average girls, in PL, 0.5% approach/lay conversion rate, and you are jacked? Something is not right here.

The encouraging thing here is that you stuck with it, and with this there is a chance that you can correct the problems you have. But I think it needs someone experienced on the ground with you. Some members of the forum have offered, which is awesome... beware of things like PUA company "bootcamps", which have a good chance of making you even more screwed up and encouraging yet more ineffective spam.

If your problems cannot be identified or solved, you may want to consider giving up "game" in the traditional sense and just going to the Philippines where you can at least still get some decent ROI. Life is not perfect, shit happens and we all have to adapt. I've run plenty times from situations in life, women related and otherwise, with my tail between my legs, because I knew it wasn't working, the ROI was too low. No shame in that, try not to beat yourself up about it. You've been doing the best you can until now, and that's all you can do.

I would say my threshold is 1% approach/lay on day cold approach in EE, so:

0.5% - very bad, I would look for serious changes if I'm getting this
1% - quite bad but possibly manageable if you can get 10+ approaches per day done very quickly (possible in high foot traffic areas)
2% - decent to good, better than most men can do
3% - very good
4% - excellent
5% - "pro" level, if you're at this point most failures you get will be due to external factors and there's not much you can do about it.

These are just my definitions from my notes, I'd be curious to see whether they match up to the experiences of others. Just going from rates of 0.5% to 1% can mean the difference between a ROI you are OK with and therefore continuing with game, and failure and quitting game altogether. OP might not solve all his issues 100%, but he may be able to improve ROI enough for him to be happy with his lot.

Roosh has an index which indicates conversion rates around 2-3%, which is very good. The only guys who could beat this are those blessed naturally in the looks and/or charm department, or have other stuff going for them such as minor/local celebrity status, billionaire lifestyles etc.

Janka was approximately 3%, a very handsome man gaming in the US with interactions only 1-3 minutes long.

Krauser IIRC was at anywhere from around 3% (mainly EE girls in London) to 5% (EE girls in their native countries).

Gio on this forum improved from 1% all the way up to around 4% in the US, he appears to be an extremely positive guy with a lot going for him. 4% in the US is brilliant.

I've gone short periods of hitting 4% conversion rates in the day with 6-7s but these seemed to be good runs of results and always stalled. I'm not sure if it's because I tend to get exhausted trying to maintain good stats or because I was just lucky for a while. I would happily take a consistent, stable 3% lay/approach rate over large numbers. But it is discouraging somewhat that this conversion rate is where some of the best "pros" are at (e.g. Roosh). We have to match him or Krauser, some of the most consistent players on the planet. It's kinda like telling my local amateur village soccer team that we have to aim to play to the same standard as Barcelona or Juventus or Madrid.

[Tiguere]

The vast majority of Latin women won't give two shits about your height. 5'7" is an average height in places like Colombia. So they won't hold it against you. And I'll promise you'll get more than 3 lays in 2 years in Colombia.

That being said - if you're money is good, I'd learn Spanish and check out the Dominican Republic. The girls like white skin, but they prefer a man of means just as much. If you can afford a studio with a rooftop pool in Piantini, you'll have sexy, lighter skinned Dominicanas crawling all over you.

You still need some game in the DR. The girls won't just fall in your lap, but many forum guys get 3 lays in a week (sometimes in 24 hours) in that country.