[godzilla]

I'm going to repeat what was said above pretty much. Stay in Poland and get some advice from forum guys. Your date game is the problem. 3 out of 70 is a low conversation rate. Also you said you went on 70 this year? That's a lot of time wasted too, since your using more then half your weekend on dates.

And another tip, don't go on dates with 4s or bang them. We all make dumbass choices, just check moma busted lizard thread, but that shit fucks with confidence. Like you said your jacked, your not some fat sloth, you fuck better looking girls then that. And lastly, you live there full time so you don't want to be seen out with a 4. Good luck bro.

[Cambodian Creamsicle]

Romania is not easier than Poland so I would think twice before packing up your shit and making the move.

[leanmeansexmachine]

The OP cleary states that he wants a country in Europe where he will have it easier. Romania is his only option. I know because i spent 4 months in that country and everywhere in Central/East Europe.

Nightlife sucks because of table culture but for every other form of game he will have it easier than in Poland. Polish girls do not go for providers easy. They fall quickly for Spaniards and Italian type guys. I saw several couples like this just now in old market.

Romanian men are poor, not tall and of small build. Looks do not matter as much there because women there place more importance on finances compared to looks. I saw many older, ugly men with pretty women there.

I do not think the OP, with his level of game and looks, has any other options in Europe expect provider game in a poor country like Romania.

The only other option i see him having in Poland is if he becomes some sort of life of the party guy, everybody needs to get to know you kind of person. But because he does not like nightlife, this is out of the question.

[Kid Twist]

(06-09-2016 03:29 AM)leanmeansexmachine Wrote:  

It is hard to tell for sure without knowing you, but given the profile you mentioned, i think you would struggle even more in countries like Serbia and Croatia. In Serbia people are very friendly, women will date a foreigner, but people are also very tall. I am 6 feet tall and i often feel short in Serbia.

I would give Romania a try, i found the women and locals to be very friendly, it is also very cheap. Cities look like shit though, the only reason to go there is for the people.

I disagree that Poland is the best or easiest place in Europe. I had better experiences in Hungary, Romania and Lithuania. And i am a good looking guy who does not need to try hard. Thing about Poland i have noticed is that it is alot like Western Europe. In countries like Romania, Hungary and Serbia, you can still find interesting cultures. I think that is also something you need to take into consideration. Poles are stuck in a bit of an identity crisis i feel.

I think maybe the best place for you would be somewhere like Thailand. I do not know enough about these places in Asia though so i will leave it to somebody else with more experience to comment. The visas situations there should not be a problem i think. I have a friend who has been living there for 3 years. Lives on tourist visas. Struggled with women in Europe but does very well there.

Do you have recommendations on Serbia? I would like to travel there, and no some people of Serbian descent in America that have family over there. I think their relatives live in Belgrade. My plan would be to travel over there and be in contact, but obviously stay by myself and maybe also travel elsewhere after 5-6 days.

[leanmeansexmachine]

(06-09-2016 11:14 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 03:29 AM)leanmeansexmachine Wrote:  

It is hard to tell for sure without knowing you, but given the profile you mentioned, i think you would struggle even more in countries like Serbia and Croatia. In Serbia people are very friendly, women will date a foreigner, but people are also very tall. I am 6 feet tall and i often feel short in Serbia.

I would give Romania a try, i found the women and locals to be very friendly, it is also very cheap. Cities look like shit though, the only reason to go there is for the people.

I disagree that Poland is the best or easiest place in Europe. I had better experiences in Hungary, Romania and Lithuania. And i am a good looking guy who does not need to try hard. Thing about Poland i have noticed is that it is alot like Western Europe. In countries like Romania, Hungary and Serbia, you can still find interesting cultures. I think that is also something you need to take into consideration. Poles are stuck in a bit of an identity crisis i feel.

I think maybe the best place for you would be somewhere like Thailand. I do not know enough about these places in Asia though so i will leave it to somebody else with more experience to comment. The visas situations there should not be a problem i think. I have a friend who has been living there for 3 years. Lives on tourist visas. Struggled with women in Europe but does very well there.

Do you have recommendations on Serbia? I would like to travel there, and no some people of Serbian descent in America that have family over there. I think their relatives live in Belgrade. My plan would be to travel over there and be in contact, but obviously stay by myself and maybe also travel elsewhere after 5-6 days.

To not derail this thread, i link you to the thread i created about Serbia earlier this week here .

If you have any specific questions, send me a message.

[WannaBang]

Ok so it looks like I need to clarify a few things.

I don't want a serious monogomous girlfriend relationship just now. Not till I am 30+ which will be 2-3 years from now. I want to bang a lot of girls and if possibly retain them as 'plates' with ultimately a deeper goal of 'knowing I can get laid.'

ChickenLover9T9

Now for me it is about efficiency. For example approaching 10 girls a day (treating it like a gym session which funnily enough I also do everyday) and in total 300 in a month leading to one bang (ideally a 7 which is 1-2 points above what is available to me online dating) is what I am aiming for. Right now I am at 600 which translates to 20 approaches a day which is far too emotionally draining and unsustainable. Truth be told the 1 girl I did bang from cold approach was number 470 something. But anyway. I would be HAPPY to have this sort of odds because that will mean 1 new girl a month and if I improved me game even further then maybe in the future it would be more like 5 approaches a day (150 a month) to get that 1 bang or indeed 300 approaches and 2 bangs.

I would MUCH rather do this than rely on night-game/social which I utterly despise. I don't drink generally (1- 2 units a week max) and coming home at 3am basically removes an entire day of productivity. Plus I have a very volatile temper and cannot endure the harsh environment in night settings as well as all the unwelcome obstacles such as cockblocks, sausage fest, cunt bouncers etc. During the day it is not a problem however.

I am not into Asian girls and have no interest in the Philippines or Thailand for this reason. I am somewhat partial to Japanese girls for some reason however.

Thanks for recognising my efforts - the amount of teeth grinding and pushing the atlas stone up the hill has been utterly insane. And now that I have come so far and invested so much I CANNOT stop.

MasculineProfiles

South America doesn't sound worth it at all. The physical danger aspect as well as the apparent immaturity and flakiness of the women there would drive me to suicide probably. I have been learning Spanish and was considering a 3 stop trip i.e. 1 month Medellin then IF I like it, 1 month Cali then 1 month Bogota. But I am really not sure.

262

1) Cold approach game.

Always direct. The first 160 were indirect Roosh style but every single one of the resulting dates resulted in the girl being bewildered when I showed sexual intent and being friendzoned. The rest were Krauser style more or less though I cannot say I followed his model especially well.

2) Internet game

I usually get the girl's whatsapp within 4-5 messages. As I (guess) I am a 6-7, I get girls who are 5-6s as matches. I went through hell omn earth to get good pictures, using photofeeler to ascertain their value. Typically here in Warsaw/Krakow I get 1-2 new matches a day

3) Date game

First 45 were absolute baloney (aside from the 1 success in Kiev). But after meeting an American guy who is an expert, paid for his training and he taught me a dating model where I speak < 40% of the convo, play the 'questions game,' keep the date < 1 hour and escalate incrementally every 10 minutes. It works for sure as I got laid twice in the month of May using this technique

Note

I actually have a blog detailing every single day of my quest. However it is a private blog and I cannot give anyone a link unless I know and trust them quite a bit. I did this after Krauser suggested it to help keep one's self accountable

[Heart Break Kid]

I'd certainly read some more game advice and try it out, but I think moving would be good just to reset your brain a bit.

Maybe you could try another city in Poland?

If you're bent on going to another country, I think Romania sounds the most interesting, though I've never been.

[Road_Less_Taken]

I cannot believe your effort, especially dealing with your low rate of return. Good for you with sticking with it. As other posters suggested there is something causing the issue that is worth exploring.

That being said after all that work you deserve a vacation to the Philippines. If you go there and do the crazy 300 approaches you do a month and get nothing to show for it I'd be shocked.

[aeroektar]

600+ approaches and 70+ dates doesn't seem bad but the 3 bangs leads me to believe your doing something wrong on the dates. What are you doing with these girls? How much effort (time, money, travel) are you putting into these dates? I'd be aiming for a couple drinks at a bar/lounge/cafe as close to your apartment as possible and then going for the first date bang.

If I understand correctly you work a month then get a month off, sounds kinda awesome, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by flying down to one of the safer South American cities.

[WannaBang]

Aeroektar, it sounds awesome eh? It would sure be if it was as simple as that. Unfortunately I am paid salary which means I am on call all the time so even if I worked 4 weeks I could be called back offshore a week later. Also, I pay my own flights anywhere I want to go. So if I went to Colombia and I got called to work I'd need to pay the flights. The only possible way would be to book holidays.

Dates? It varies. As I said the first 45 were disastrous as I didn't have a clue what I was doing and was suffering from information overload. I only started having a clue after meeting that American player who coached me a bit.


I just realised something. In order to avoid becoming a tax resident in Poland and screwing all the paperwork up, I need to switch countries anyway

[Heart Break Kid]

I find it interesting that you only fucked 3 girls on 70 dates as well. I mean even if you didn't have a lot of game, if you take the same girl out twice you should be able to fuck her, and three times is pretty much the golden rule (is this different in Polish culture?).

[JWLZG]

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

Ok so it looks like I need to clarify a few things.

I don't want a serious monogomous girlfriend relationship just now. Not till I am 30+ which will be 2-3 years from now. I want to bang a lot of girls and if possibly retain them as 'plates' with ultimately a deeper goal of 'knowing I can get laid.'

We have slightly similar vital stats. I'm around your age, or younger, and have the same relationship/dating goals. Depending on how old you look for your age, I'd hedge that Poland would've been decent for your circumstances, as you can fuck to a +/- 5 year age range, more towards the younger.

I really don't think you're cutting down your options if you aim a bit higher. After living in Europe, I really couldn't bring myself to fuck anyone lower than a 6. :/

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

ChickenLover9T9

Now for me it is about efficiency. For example approaching 10 girls a day (treating it like a gym session which funnily enough I also do everyday) and in total 300 in a month leading to one bang (ideally a 7 which is 1-2 points above what is available to me online dating) is what I am aiming for.

Have you thought about approaching at the gym?

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

Right now I am at 600 which translates to 20 approaches a day which is far too emotionally draining and unsustainable. Truth be told the 1 girl I did bang from cold approach was number 470 something. But anyway. I would be HAPPY to have this sort of odds because that will mean 1 new girl a month and if I improved me game even further then maybe in the future it would be more like 5 approaches a day (150 a month) to get that 1 bang or indeed 300 approaches and 2 bangs.

Given the rate at which you're approaching, it sounds like even a slight dip into social circle would be equally draining on you, yet netting considerable more in gains.

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

I would MUCH rather do this than rely on night-game/social which I utterly despise. I don't drink generally (1- 2 units a week max) and coming home at 3am basically removes an entire day of productivity. Plus I have a very volatile temper and cannot endure the harsh environment in night settings as well as all the unwelcome obstacles such as cockblocks, sausage fest, cunt bouncers etc. During the day it is not a problem however.

Are you sure you haven't got Asperger's? I don't mean this in an offensive way, and I know it's been over-diagnosed for the benefits of shrinks' wallets (no pun intended). It wouldn't surprise me if more RVFers than have admitted are somewhere on the spectrum yet have managed to turn their lives around.

Your impressions of nightlife and social circle echo that of many Aspies, who find it absolute torture and meaningless to hang out and talk shop with a bunch of people.
They also find the conditions of nightlife and clubs to be an absolute sensory overload.
I know I spent a good portion of my late teens and early twenties preferring to browse Facebook rather than chill with other guys at the beach, and I lived to regret that. It's something I had to force myself to get out of my comfort zone.

How well do you socialise with your colleagues? Be honest.

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

I am not into Asian girls and have no interest in the Philippines or Thailand for this reason. I am somewhat partial to Japanese girls for some reason however.

I definitely see where you're coming from. I'm not into Orientals myself (ironically, I'm of the that background), and resented being given that advice by game guys.
I might dip into Korean or Japanese girls down the track, but I've found that panacea to be really unproductive to some guys.

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

MasculineProfiles

South America doesn't sound worth it at all. The physical danger aspect as well as the apparent immaturity and flakiness of the women there would drive me to suicide probably. I have been learning Spanish and was considering a 3 stop trip i.e. 1 month Medellin then IF I like it, 1 month Cali then 1 month Bogota. But I am really not sure.

Mate, getting off-topic, but I didn't find South America that dangerous at all. Granted, I was in another part of the continent to what the others posters are suggesting, but you'd probably find it safer than home there too.

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

262

1) Cold approach game.

Always direct. The first 160 were indirect Roosh style but every single one of the resulting dates resulted in the girl being bewildered when I showed sexual intent and being friendzoned. The rest were Krauser style more or less though I cannot say I followed his model especially well.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone direct in both night- and day-game. You're probably ahead of me in some way.

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

2) Internet game

I usually get the girl's whatsapp within 4-5 messages. As I (guess) I am a 6-7, I get girls who are 5-6s as matches. I went through hell omn earth to get good pictures, using photofeeler to ascertain their value. Typically here in Warsaw/Krakow I get 1-2 new matches a day

I'm probably a 7.5, of a race that's said to do badly online in the West, and I still matched with 7's and 8's there. Can you afford to pay for a photographer?

I would posit that most guys over a 6 can bring himself ~2 points on the looks scale online with the right pix.

(06-09-2016 05:45 PM)WannaBang Wrote:  

Unfortunately I am paid salary which means I am on call all the time so even if I worked 4 weeks I could be called back offshore a week later. Also, I pay my own flights anywhere I want to go. So if I went to Colombia and I got called to work I'd need to pay the flights. The only possible way would be to book holidays.
[...]

I just realised something. In order to avoid becoming a tax resident in Poland and screwing all the paperwork up, I need to switch countries anyway

Those are pretty shit conditions. Over here FIFO (fly-in, fly-out) workers get there flights covered to and from work, within reason; basically as long as you're within the country. If I'm not wrong, they get a fixed number of RDO's, meaning they're not working more than they're paid for.

(06-09-2016 05:47 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

What country is that?

Australia.

[WannaBang]

My friend

I don't have aspergers syndrome. The very idea is laughable and if you asked ANYONE who knows me if I had this they would laugh as you too. Now there is such a thing as INTROVERSION - check out Mike Cernovich's danger and play to see the true definition of what this means. Not being a party person and wanting to endure fuck-wits for hours in human meat-markets doesn't qualify someone as having aspergers.

Now I won't say I am the most socially fluent person and this is due in part to the relatively unlucky experiences I had at school i.e. bullying, being at the bottom of the social hierarchy and being socially isolated - hence why I lost my virginity at age 25 and only after a supreme effort most men could scarcely imagine. Most likely this is because my family constantly traveled to different cities/countries during my early childhood. As far as how I get on socially with others, I don't get on well with a lot of my co-workers on the ship because it is the worst environment ever for a non-extravert. I was meant as a nomadic laptop worker and I think eventually this is how it will need to be.

Don't think for one minute that I haven't tried the social circle approach. The theme of most of my life has been trying to fit into society. But I always seem to struggle and the efforts always seemed to have low ROI. Christ I almost reached intermediate level in Polish hoping it would help but it didn't.

I used to approach at the gym (indirectly obviously) but after it became apparent they were unavailable (due to the low numbers I approached/factors beyond my control) it made going to the gym super awkward as they were there and in any case most of the girls in Polish gyms have boyfriends - usually super tall and good looking. Don't think I'm making excuses - if you met me you would see I am quite capable of approaching and getting a decent amount of numbers - not something someone with aspergers can pull off easily I imagine.

I'm not into fucking a girl lower than a 6 anymore either. I would literally rather wank. The one girl I cold approached and fucked thankfully doesn't mind being my 'plate' is a 6-6.5 and sex with her is incredibly good - really the only thing keeping me in Warsaw. She saved my life I would even say. I am currently in a state of chronic burnout and can't approach anymore in case I lose my rag if some girl is rude to me - its messed up.

And yeah you need to remember there is an oil and gas downturn so my company wouldn't pay my flights for this reason in any case.

Online dating

Earlier this year I spent almost a grand revamping my entire wardrobe and hiring a top men's style consultant to keep me right. Recently my male pattern baldness became unendurable so I got scalp micropigmentation done. And I got an otoplasty surgery to pin my ears as they were sticking out like crazy (even more so that I was bald). I've put insane effort into maxing my looks and literally 10s of 1000s of pictures have been taken to find the best possible look for me.

[godzilla]

Reading your response to this, my advice

1. At the very least, go to South America or Asia on vacation. You might just need a confidence boost. The height issue doesn't really matter down there. Check Peru, DR or Philippines thread.

2. I'm 6'3" and while I'm balding and not perfect looking at all, maybe its too easy for me to say but stop worrying about what polish guys look like or any male for that matter.

3. Make male friends. You can't socialize like a man if you've never had male friends.

4. I noticed you speak Polish. Do you speak strictly polish on dates? Show you can speak it but use English, you have to play on your home turf.

[scrambled]

As a side not (not advice about EE), the CF Game for Introverts Link for those interested.

The Asperger's stuff is overdiagnosed in society and overused on the internet; it's not as common as the internet implies, and is almost exclusively limited to younger (millennial?) demographic. It was unheard of when I was growing up in the 1980's.

Introversion means the brain is more sensitive to external stimuli, so 'nightgame' with its crowds and noises place the introvert at a disadvantage, essentially stressing out the more reactive brain. It's a package deal, the same introvert does better in lower-stimuli environments, like Daygame, where the reactiveness becomes a major advantage in "situational awareness". Unfortunately, western culture is now biased in favor of extroversion and any introversion seems to be negatively viewed, and people have to make excuses for "taking time to warm up", etc. The extrovert sees the introvert as 'shy' or 'too sensitive', but the introvert sees the extrovert in daygame as 'uncalibrated' or 'too aggressive'.

Autism is actually the opposite of introversion; the autistic brain lacks normal sensory processing, while, the introvert has higher than average such processing. I see the autistic "player" not avoiding nightgame due to it being stressful, but rather obliviously going in and annoying everyone with self-absorbed game (since he cannot process external stimuli well, his acting is self-absorbed), then walking away alone but with a smile on his face of how great his 'game' is.

[WannaBang]

I'm thinking I might take a 2 week trip to a place where I can basically be on God mode (or near enough). Just for shits and giggles I turned my tinder (plus) to Manila. 38 matches so far, 8 girls opened me. I got a grand total of 70 matches between Medellin and Cali over a period of a few days but after what I've heard about flaking and the need for Spanish it probably isn't worth it.

I do need to spend a month in another European city regardless - it is no longer an option. So far I am most tempted by Ukraine because
1) I got my first bang of the year in Kiev (a 6 but still a good fuck) from tinder and a total of 6 dates - 2 of which were cold approach - all in 5 days of tremendous (and yes alcohol fueled - 1 off - effort)
2) I titty sucked and almost fingered a milf I talked to on the street a day later in Kiev. I didn't get the bang because she stopped me to text her Turkish boyfriend and had a change of heart but still...
3) I can learn Russian there during the day which will open up Belarus and Russia to me (and anywhere else that speaks Russian)
4) I can take kratom which is fucking awesome stuff which is illegal in most of Europe including Poland
5) steroids are legal which means I can take SARMs without restriction
6) Cheap as fuck

So far I think Bucharest, Odessa and Kiev are the best options with the former 2 close to each other. I got a LOT of tinder matches in Belarus but I need Russian at the intermediate level to do anything with those matches.

Godzilla

I think I might just do that for the confidence boost. Part of the reason I had the will power to approach 670 girls was because of the dramatic self-confidence boost from having a relationship with a tall 7 Polish girl who loved me (quite sad to admit that I know and makes me look like a total douche). In order to generate another wave I think I need that confidence boost. I need that boost because at the moment I have no will to approach at all.

2) Yes we can only piss with the cock we've got. I've beaten the shit out of my insecurities using measures some would consider extreme but trust me I am not eyeing up leg lengthening surgery- I do have my limits

3) I have male friends - very close friends from school. Men socialise in different manners depending on their personality. Getting shit-faced, sarging and nights out at sausage fests is not how I choose to socialise. And if I really want good male company I have this forum as the best resource. I met a really sound guy from here in Warsaw who loves day game. Its not a problem. I only struggle really in group situations and places where I need to interact with people for very long periods of time i.e. working offshore 12 hours a day with a huge range of personalities.

4) I speak whatever is required. If the girl only speaks Polish and no English I speak Polish. If her English is better than my Polish (the majority of cases) we speak English. Strangely the only girl I banged from cold approach (and it my only plate) doesn't speak a word of English.

[ChickenLover9T9]

(06-09-2016 11:52 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  

Now for me it is about efficiency. For example approaching 10 girls a day (treating it like a gym session which funnily enough I also do everyday) and in total 300 in a month leading to one bang (ideally a 7 which is 1-2 points above what is available to me online dating) is what I am aiming for. Right now I am at 600 which translates to 20 approaches a day which is far too emotionally draining and unsustainable.

It's always been about efficiency. Where efficiency is good, sustainability comes naturally. At your current rates, you've at least recognized the status quo is unsustainable and unacceptable. Having done 600 daytime cold approaches, you still have decent odds of locating and solving the main issue(s) that is/are causing the poor showing so far, because the emotional resilience to do what you have done beats out 99.9% of men already. Very very few men would be bold or stupid enough to approach 600 women in the cold light of day.

70 dates total of which half is from DG. So 35/600 date/approach rate, correct me if I am wrong. That's near 6%, it's not bad at all. Converting half of dates into lays is not unrealistic, because their showing up is quite a strong indicator of interest, making your overall lay/approach rate a very handsome 3%, but you are converting low single digits of dates into lays, that's not normal. Date->Lay might be the bottleneck. Phone # / Approach could be anywhere between 20-40%, if you're getting below 20% you might want to work on that too. You ideally want a number when (approximately) divided by 10 (to account for the Phone #/ Lay ~10% rate) results in a good overall Lay/Approach rate 2-5%.

I do think you need a break though man. Manila is a bit of a grey shit hole but 2nd tier cities in the Phils like Cebu or Davao are much closer to pristine beaches and are less overwhelming. Also the online dating is chock full in places like Cebu, if you want to put in less energy and get girls to come to you from online or on a date from online this is all available to you. Sure asians are your favorite, but making love to the submissive, tight brown bodies, on demand massages, grocery shopping, whatever else you want, it's great. You might catch yellow fever and never return to Europe ever again. It's happened to many men.

Your knowledge of Polish is such a waste. Knowing the language should put you at a huge advantage. It's a very difficult language and it would be a pity if all that effort came to nothing.

[RawGod]

(06-10-2016 05:34 PM)WannaBang Wrote:  

Part of the reason I had the will power to approach 670 girls was because of the dramatic self-confidence boost from having a relationship with a tall 7 Polish girl who loved me (quite sad to admit that I know and makes me look like a total douche).

Nothing sad about that at all. You have to look back on your high points when you go through tough times. There are a lot of guys who don't have those positive reference experiences, and it makes things a lot harder for them.

[godzilla]

Looks like you've worked on a lot man, just keep working, its never easy

[seniol]

Odessa Ukraine or Budapest Hungary, hard to decide between these 2

[NerdyNomad]

As a fellow introvert with some insecurities here is my take (although I'm 6'3 and I'm looking more for a ltr)

I have lived in Medellin and the girls can be very hot but also very flaky. It can also be hard to find a good intelligent sophisticated woman there if that matters to you. 2nd tier cities in Colombia are better for easier bangs but the intelligence/ culturedness obv goes down more. Knowing at least intermediate Spanish is very important.
I have also lived in Panama, and spent almost a month in Peru. Latina girls can be annoying as fck to deal with. Save for their "ass"ets they don't have much else to offer.

For Eastern Europe I don't have much experience. I was in Bucharest for one week and I just hated the city. Girls are decent looking but nothing special. Budapest in comparison is a much nicer city, but the girls are slightly less attractive.
I also just was in Chisinau for a few days. Boring city but I think its worth a look from you. Attractive, down to earth, nice girls there. Maybe I was lucky but I met some very nice and interesting people. I think your height will be less of a factor here and your body will be a plus.
Now I'm in Kiev and it's probably the best looking girls I've ever seen (even though I'm more of an ass man) But I haven't been here much time...

Like you, after doing 3 months in Asia last year, I agree they are just not that attractive save for 1/500 and except the Russian tourists on vacation. Manila is the worst shi*hole I've ever been to but the girls are easy there.
I would consider trying 2nd tier cities in Philippines for easier lower quality bangs with the benefit that the city itself isn't a shi*hole. But I have never been.
Jakarta looks very intriguing from what I have read on the forums and probably has the most attractive Asian women from Tinderplusing(which is not saying much)

For you with your height and lack of success. I agree you need to get out to Asia and get your confidence up. I know you don't like Asians, but just suck it up for a month or two. Your height won't be much of a factor and your body will be a big plus.
Check out 2nd tier cities in Philippines and Jakarta.
Also you should check out Thailand which was my favorite country in Asia. Thailand is very cheap, great food, nice people, and has a lot of attractive female tourists if you get bored of Asians.

[WannaBang]

ChickenLover9T9

Amazing answer Thanks a lot! Ultimately my weakness is in fact dates. Of course I am getting numbers from approached and numbers that translate to dates. Of course the quality of the approach itself will set the tone for the date - I prefer to go for more direct approaches (not hiding my dick) to ensure the girl knows what I am after as indirect was just disastrous for me. But yeah, ultimately what will motivate me is results. If I got a 50% success ratio with dates I'd be pulling 15+ girls a month. Of course being realistic I would even be happy with 20% success rates because then I'd still be getting a new girl from cold approach a month which is really all I am shooting for. And then cultivating a loose circle of plates

seniol

Why those cities?

NerdyNomad

I'm not in Asia man haha - never been there and probably won't be going there anytime soon. I tried setting my tinder to Manila and got 240+ matches in under 24 hours (I have tinder plus unlimited). About 45 girls opened me and of course a good chunk of them said they were lady boys in their profiles (and who knows how many of the others are). I have to say I'm not that impressed with the talent at all and the climate/environment of the Philippines seems like somewhere I could endure for a week or 2 max.

I should note most people think I am 5'10 as I wear insoles in my shoes (no-one notices and no-one who does know cares. My ex who was 5'10 flat-foot didn't even notice and she was equal in height to me when I wore these - when we were flat foot she towered over me)

Ultimately I WILL go to another European country (because I don't want to become a tax resident here I have no choice) - just a question of which one is best for a man of my standing. So far I am getting some very good feedback on this thread)

[ChickenLover9T9]

I'm not sure changing location will make that much of a difference, because if you take out SEA (2nd tier Phils especially) then you're not going to get a city which is much, much, much easier than Poland (+ being a speaker of the native language). Your main problem is (caveat: probably, still could be before) occurring during Date->onwards. If you have that problem in Poland you're probably going to have it elsewhere unless you accidentally stumble across the solution. Logistics is one factor that can mean the difference between 0% and 5%. If you changed cities and logistics was a problem, but you got more central logistics in the second city, your date problems might melt away. If you are not being aggressive enough in trying to bring a girl home after every date, and trying to escalate as far as possible, that's another huge factor.

I'd still recommend SEA to blow off steam - if online quality doesn't meet your standards you can meet higher quality girls vs online during the day time with much less effort than you need for day game in Poland.

But if you're not going to SEA, then maybe where you go next is of less importance than finding out where you're going wrong on your dates.

I don't think appearing 5'10 should be that much of an issue. I don't wear shoes with heels or insoles, though maybe I should, because in day game I seem to walk and run a lot, and I appear about the same height, which is about average for a guy. Of course because cold approach is harder the requirements are generally higher, so being slightly above average height is probably (a very shallow) requirement for getting a lot of girls to stop. But I don't know, maybe because I've always accepted things I can't change I just see myself as good looking and cool even though a lot of girls might see me in a less favorable light. I've been through quite a few shitty dates that went nowhere, with no feedback to take home.

Other than the girls that go nowhere are usually rigid and socially awkward and some have undertones of hating men. Sometimes I think whether this is my fault or whether they would be like that on every date. Were they rigid because I am not 6'2 and jacked? Or because the conversation sucked? Often the answer is not clear. I also have a problem where I can't bring some 5-6s home but 7-8s are much easier. This starts right from the approach, where 7-8s seem to be more open and friendly. 5s usually are cold as hell, sometimes even running away, occasionally hostile, while 6s who are happy and cool are friendly, but some 6s who seem less happy are also not very nice. 9s who are my type and I genuinely want them, are usually very nice, but generic 9s that I'm not really that into just DGAF and brush me off, even if I would like to sex them.

There are all sorts of variables in day game (which only increase because of (except SDL) the amount of time bridges that don't exist in a more linear night time environment where you can take girls home straight in one sitting.) It's very hard to know where you screwed up sometimes, as above I don't always know what went wrong. But for me I've been able to take home a few constants, and that is logistics, pushing things as far as you can always, physical contact and kissing on the first date, and also not talking too much. I find the more I say, the more the girl has to judge me on, and if I say 95% cool stuff, but 5% she doesn't like, she will decide no and there is nothing I can do from that point. If I ask her questions about her life and try to be as genuine as possible with them, even though I don't really care as girls are generally boring, then I will respond with something like "wow, that's really interesting, please tell me more" (a la Jimmy on South Park) or "wow, that must have been difficult" then follow it by another question like "how do you feel about it?" The more you can get her to open up the more she will be comfortable and the less energy you have to use. Girls love to talk about themselves, so I let them. I focus my energy on dates more on leading to the sex location plus physical escalation throughout. I used to do more "clown" game or just more talking because I was far more entertained by my own shit talking than whatever boring shit came out of her mouth, but I eventually went back to basics. Occasionally for the higher tier girls you might have to do a few verbal "tricks" to bring things back the way you want, but whenever I went through date conversion problems I stripped things back to basics and tried to figure out where I went wrong.

You've got a good amount of data (35 dates, plus another 35 from online). Try your best to find out where you are going wrong. Sometimes it takes a fresh pair of eyes (someone else to watch you), but sometimes you can do it yourself if you reflect hard enough on your experiences.

[NerdyNomad]

If it must be in Europe, to reiterate and expand on my earlier comment, I would give Chisinau, Moldova a try. The city itself is very boring. There isn't much to do. Nightlife isn't really my thing either, but there is not much of it besides Friday and Saturday for others who may want to know.

But I enjoyed the food and its very cheap. The girls are among the most beautiful of Europe. There are a ton of 6's and 7's walking around in the day time and they will be less bitchy than most of Europe.

The girls I approached for the most part were incredibly nice, maybe I was lucky. I think it would be a good place to find ltr material.

But I was only there for a few days and didn't really make a big effort, so my sample size is very small.

Another thing, I'm not a top .1% body but I'm probably top 2%, and it seemed to be more of a positive attribute in Chisinau relative to other places.

[Road_Less_Taken]

(06-09-2016 09:14 AM)ChickenLover9T9 Wrote:  

(06-09-2016 04:35 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Anyway, OP, there is something going wrong on a fundamental level if those numbers are accurate, something that won't be solved by going to new country. If you're not disfigured, which you're not, then you can be doing much much better than you are, especially if you say you have body in the "top 99.9%". There is some signal that you're giving off thats turning girls off before you start, or a social disorder perhaps.

This is not a slight against you, not at all- it's important to recognize your faults in order to work on them. And that is the most important thing- that for the most part a guy can work on his faults and achieve satisfactory results.

Theres more going on here obviously, I think you'd benefit from meeting one of our experienced member in your area to get a feel for whats going wrong.

This is exactly what I got from the very first post. I like how experience really shines through on this forum. Other places on the internet for "game" advice would probably tell you to spam more approaches or do some absolutely stupid pseudoscientific shit to improve OP's poor results.

I know this forum is heavy on changing location, and for many men that is the solution after some hard work in the new market.

For other men though the problem lies within the self and is consistent across all markets. You may get much better results in the Philippines but you would get far, far better results in that same country, or Poland or Slovakia or Romania, wherever you go basically, if you are able to identify and solve the internal problems. Because 2 years, 600 approaches, 3 lays with average girls, in PL, 0.5% approach/lay conversion rate, and you are jacked? Something is not right here.

The encouraging thing here is that you stuck with it, and with this there is a chance that you can correct the problems you have. But I think it needs someone experienced on the ground with you. Some members of the forum have offered, which is awesome... beware of things like PUA company "bootcamps", which have a good chance of making you even more screwed up and encouraging yet more ineffective spam.

If your problems cannot be identified or solved, you may want to consider giving up "game" in the traditional sense and just going to the Philippines where you can at least still get some decent ROI. Life is not perfect, shit happens and we all have to adapt. I've run plenty times from situations in life, women related and otherwise, with my tail between my legs, because I knew it wasn't working, the ROI was too low. No shame in that, try not to beat yourself up about it. You've been doing the best you can until now, and that's all you can do.

I would say my threshold is 1% approach/lay on day cold approach in EE, so:

0.5% - very bad, I would look for serious changes if I'm getting this
1% - quite bad but possibly manageable if you can get 10+ approaches per day done very quickly (possible in high foot traffic areas)
2% - decent to good, better than most men can do
3% - very good
4% - excellent
5% - "pro" level, if you're at this point most failures you get will be due to external factors and there's not much you can do about it.

These are just my definitions from my notes, I'd be curious to see whether they match up to the experiences of others. Just going from rates of 0.5% to 1% can mean the difference between a ROI you are OK with and therefore continuing with game, and failure and quitting game altogether. OP might not solve all his issues 100%, but he may be able to improve ROI enough for him to be happy with his lot.

Roosh has an index which indicates conversion rates around 2-3%, which is very good. The only guys who could beat this are those blessed naturally in the looks and/or charm department, or have other stuff going for them such as minor/local celebrity status, billionaire lifestyles etc.

Janka was approximately 3%, a very handsome man gaming in the US with interactions only 1-3 minutes long.

Krauser IIRC was at anywhere from around 3% (mainly EE girls in London) to 5% (EE girls in their native countries).

Gio on this forum improved from 1% all the way up to around 4% in the US, he appears to be an extremely positive guy with a lot going for him. 4% in the US is brilliant.

I've gone short periods of hitting 4% conversion rates in the day with 6-7s but these seemed to be good runs of results and always stalled. I'm not sure if it's because I tend to get exhausted trying to maintain good stats or because I was just lucky for a while. I would happily take a consistent, stable 3% lay/approach rate over large numbers. But it is discouraging somewhat that this conversion rate is where some of the best "pros" are at (e.g. Roosh). We have to match him or Krauser, some of the most consistent players on the planet. It's kinda like telling my local amateur village soccer team that we have to aim to play to the same standard as Barcelona or Juventus or Madrid.

I've never calculated an approach to lay ratio but I doubt mine is anywhere close to 3%. That seems like a lot of work...especially if you went on a bad streak. Mine is probably at least 10%. That being said if I talk to a girl usually it appears some what in a natural state, I'm not running after girls, so perhaps if I put in more effort to get interactions ironically the number would be lower.