[ivansirko]

(05-29-2016 08:44 PM)Kona Wrote:  

There was a traveling circus that came to Hawaii a long time ago and one of the elephants went crazy. I was thinking of it when I first read this thread.

It stomped on a few people, then ran onto the street, trashed some shit, And the cops just opened fire on the thing.

Given the choice in this situation you have to put the animal down. The animal went nuts allegedly due to abuse. The weird part of the video is the elephant's eyes.

[Captainstabbin]

I wish it had gone a different way. It's too bad the gorilla had to die but he was trashing that kid around pretty badly.

Maybe if the kid was able to keep calm things would have been different.

[Paracelsus]

Hasn't taken long for the armchair quarterbacks to get started:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/scienc...66ae621d67

Quote:

AN AUSTRALIAN animal behaviour expert says the gorilla shot dead in a popular US zoo would not have harmed the child who fell into his enclosure.
There has been global outrage since a silverback gorilla, Harambe, was shot and killed “to save the life of a child” who climbed through a public barrier at Gorilla World, Cincinatti Zoo.

The four-year-old boy dropped 4.5 metres into a moat before coming face to face with the leader of a troop of silverbacks.

Footage filmed on a mobile phone shows the 17-year-old gorilla on all fours standing over the boy. The 200kg primate turns the boy around before pulling on his clothing and “dragging” him away from horrified onlookers.

University of New England animal behaviour expert Gisela Kaplan told news.com.au she does not believe the boy was in any real danger.

“Usually a child is not a threat,” said Professor Kaplan, who is the author of Orang-utans in Borneo.

“The silverback would’ve understood that it was a defenceless small child. They would not normally attack, they are not an aggressive species (and) in the wild I’m certain the boy wouldn’t have been killed.”

Prof Kaplan said the leader of the troop was doing what it was supposed to do. It was “investigating”, not attacking.
“I can tell you silverbacks are protectors of their group,” she said.

“If there’s an unusual thing happening, (Harambe) needs to investigate. The fact that he went over to the child is absolutely natural behaviour but it doesn't mean he was aggressive.

“If he was going to attack he would’ve warned him first. The first thing they do is charge and beat their chests and as far as I know that didn’t happen.”

Prof Kaplan said Harambe likely moved the boy away from the screaming crowd of people because of the noise.

“Screaming is only used in extreme situations with primates and it would’ve only raised stress levels. I think it’s wrong that they shot it dead but I wasn’t there so it’s hard to be too critical.”

Asshole.

Why? Because animals in zoos do not behave the same as animals in the wild. Not by a long shot. Their behaviour changes because of their confinement -- just as you behave in a different way when your entire world is confined down to the space of a prison cell.

Indeed the behaviour of the crowd, screaming for the kid, changes the situation significantly, since it's not a situation the gorilla encounters in the wild.

On top of that, the Zoo intervened I think to stop the possibility of an attack. Of course the fucking animal didn't attack. If it had, the kid would have been dead. Even in "neutral", "investigatory" mode, though, it slammed the kid around and dragged him from place to place.

Quote:

Cincinatti Zoo said it did everything possible to avoid having to shoot Harambe, but Prof Kaplan said the gorilla should have responded to commands.
“If the keepers have a good relationship with the group, it should’ve been one keeper giving a command. Calm him down, that should’ve been sufficient,” she said.

Again, asshole. Because she's just said two minutes earlier that the screaming crowd would have generated tension, and whether the "good relationship" would hold in those circumstances is entirely questionable.

Over the next few days, beware of fuckwits anthropomorphising, that is, giving human qualities to, the gorilla. Whenever people tell you the gorilla was just "protecting" or "helping" the kid, remember, they are ascribing what looks like protective behaviour to a human to a creature that is not. Gorillas are not sapient. Their behaviour is still down in the stimulus-response area, though they have a somewhat more advanced brain than your average termite. "Protective" behaviour could just as easily be "taking away to a private place to kill you" behaviour, especially given the gorilla is supposedly the protector of his tribe, not fucking Akela out of the Jungle Book.

[Mike5055]

(05-29-2016 07:31 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 04:00 PM)Mike5055 Wrote:  

Should have shot the kid... or the mom for being a bad mother.

Seriously? The fuck is wrong with you.

I think the zoo did the right thing. Parents were absentminded probably and yes, maybe charges should be filed... however I tend to agree with the spokesperson here.

Posted in haste having just come from the store where some kids were being a complete pain in the ass. I don't truly think the kid should have been shot. The kid was just being a kid. The mom was not watching and as a result, the gorilla was killed.

That said, there should be punishment for the parents having let the situation develop in the first place. I know that there's no way my mom (and dad) would have ever let something like that happen while growing up.

[Leonard D Neubache]

To the gorilla in the enclosure the people screaming from the edges are nothing but a pack of enraged man-monkeys.

I'm guessing the gorilla is thinking "oh shit, the baby man-monkey fell in my enclosure and the rest of them seem really fucking angry. What now?"

Sad to say it would only be a matter of time before the Gorilla went apeshit, so to speak.

Moral of the story. If a kid falls in the enclosure and you're present then knock out the first person to raise their voice. Continue until everyone shuts the hell up.

[mikeymike]

Zoo acted how it needed to act.

This is on the parents...from somebody at the scene

The little boy himself had already been talking about wanting to ... get in the water.(gorilla moat) The mother's like, 'No, you're not, no, you're not,'" O'Connor recalled, adding that the mother was taking care of several other children.

kid called his shot, mom didn't watch him...endangered gorilla dead, boy seriously injured...

I know you guys would do anything to not be on the side of the mainstream outrage but in this one they got it right. The saying mom or kid needed to die is retarded but this was an unnecessary death. He should never have gotten in, the situation could have been avoided, and the parent needs to be held responsible. The story here isn't look at all the tweeters and the stupid shit they're saying, past the nonsense they're not wrong , it's a mother who acted in a way that could've cost 2 lives and ended up just costing one and getting a pass for it. More blame has been thrown at the zoo than this mom... I can't believe people question if the zoo could've done anything different, it's like when cops act in self defense and people say could you not have shot the gun out of their hand or hit their knee, stupid...

[WeekendCasanova]

Some people simply should not have kids. Useless twats.

[Atheistani]

(05-29-2016 09:23 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

Over the next few days, beware of fuckwits anthropomorphising, that is, giving human qualities to, the gorilla. Whenever people tell you the gorilla was just "protecting" or "helping" the kid, remember, they are ascribing what looks like protective behaviour to a human to a creature that is not. Gorillas are not sapient. Their behaviour is still down in the stimulus-response area, though they have a somewhat more advanced brain than your average termite. "Protective" behaviour could just as easily be "taking away to a private place to kill you" behaviour, especially given the gorilla is supposedly the protector of his tribe, not fucking Akela out of the Jungle Book.

It seems to me you dont have a clue Paracelsus. Watch this video and tell me its not consistent with the commentary you are so critical of.

I saw this clip just a few days ago so it was still fresh in my mind when this story broke. The gorilla clearly looks to be protecting the unconscious child.

[Paracelsus]

(05-29-2016 10:32 PM)Atheistani Wrote:  

It seems to me you dont have a clue Paracelsus. Watch this video and tell me its not consistent with the commentary you are so critical of.

I did. It's not.

Let's leave aside it's footage of a different incident entirely. And it's not consistent with the animal behaviourist's commentary that I'm criticising, because said behaviourist declares explicitly that a male sets out to investigate unusual occurrences in the area of its tribe. "Caring" for an alien outsider is pretty much the opposite of investigating potential threats. To me that looks more like a tentative investigation of an alien blob; notice how the gorilla always shifts to put his body between the kid and the other members of the tribe. That's not protecting the kid, that's protecting the other gorillas.

Sorry, dude. You're anthropomorphising animal behaviour like any woman who proclaims a crocodile is capable of smiling. Male gorillas kill baby gorillas, let alone the offspring of other species.

Indeed zoo-contained gorillas of the same species as this one have tried to kill 3 year old kids before. Why would a gorilla try to kill an infant that cannot possibly be any threat to it if it's nothing but an oversized Curious George?

[cubanlinx]

It's a tragic loss of an endangered animal, but ultimately the right decision was made.

I urge those on both sides of the issue to view things rationally. The life of the Gorilla is certainly not worthless. It's one of the most majestic animals and also one of the most symbolic of raw power, strength and masculinity. Why "Gorilla Mindset" otherwise?

However, the child is an infinitely precious future asset to the country. Human lives should always be held above animal lives unless said human is one of the dregs of humanity.

I'm not happy at all. I'm saddened. I'd never kill an ENDANGERED (keyword here) unless it was threatening human lives.
I wish the kid all the best, and hope that he uses that energy well in the future.

[Glaucon]

Zoos are an abomination anyway. They are prisons for animals so people can look at them. I am not the kind of animal lover who values animal life over humans, but zoos should be abolished. Go to a natural park if you want to see animals.

In Austria there is an animal park called Lainzer Tiergarten which is a prime hiking destination just next to Vienna, you can see wild pigs there, and once or twice I saw some deer as well running around. Thats the kind of "Zoo" I can accept.

[Rutting Elephant]

(05-29-2016 08:37 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

So, who else read the thread title and thought "oh Christ, not another race thread..."

Isa here saw the story and still thought "yes, a chance to race troll..."

[edit for clarity and resizing screenshot]

   

[Paracelsus]

^^^

It warms my heart that a rutting elephant has chimed in on this thread.

[cubanlinx]

Reply tweet is God mode.

[Sweet Jones]

This is disgraceful, that species is endangered. This useless woman should be billed for the expense.

[Sooth]

You should 10 gorillas to save a human.

[mikeymike]

(05-30-2016 02:27 AM)Sooth Wrote:  

You should 10 gorillas to save a human.

1 wasn't enough for you?

[Phoenix]

Whatever. Send her a bill for the new gorilla and any associated costs and forget about it.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

I have a fenced yard, and dogs that will get out if they can. However, that fence is buttoned up tight, and it's blocked from digging under as well.

I'm not an animal enclosure professional. I think if I worked at a zoo, knowing of previous instances of kids getting in with the animals, I'd have a kid proof enclosure. It's like making stair railings. Everybody knows to make the posts close enough that a kid can't get their head stuck between. I don't know how the kid got in, but I know it was preventable, and I know the zoo will be fixing it now.

[Horus]

(05-30-2016 03:32 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Whatever. Send her a bill for the new gorilla and any associated costs and forget about it.

What's the going price for a gorilla in good condition? Could you get it from the same place you buy a lightly used zebra?

[Suits]

(05-30-2016 08:14 AM)Horus Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 03:32 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Whatever. Send her a bill for the new gorilla and any associated costs and forget about it.

What's the going price for a gorilla in good condition? Could you get it from the same place you buy a lightly used zebra?

"Good condition" doesn't cut it. You need to shoot for a "high end" gorilla.

[Paracelsus]

(05-30-2016 08:41 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 08:14 AM)Horus Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 03:32 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Whatever. Send her a bill for the new gorilla and any associated costs and forget about it.

What's the going price for a gorilla in good condition? Could you get it from the same place you buy a lightly used zebra?

"Good condition" doesn't cut it. You need to shoot for a "high end" gorilla.

Well, the owners of the zoo certainly did.

[Phoenix]

(05-30-2016 08:41 AM)Suits Wrote:  

"Good condition" doesn't cut it. You need to shoot for a "high end" gorilla.

Indeed, and with the boost to Japanese tourism, it'll pay for itself in no time.

thread-48584.html

[cascadecombo]

Buddy of mine works at that zoo, from what he says the news reports are basically accurate. Kid got through the fencend went through the foliage and then got over the rocks only to fall into the pit.

Really is some Bullshit though.

[The Beast1]

Idiots should have a fat bill sent to them. How much more discouragement do you need? Fence, bushes, rock, and a sheer drop.

I'm waiting for a lawyer to pounce on this. Now they'll have to put up higher fences to further to obscure what you can see.

As much as I value human life, this darwin award candidate should be slapped upside the head at least 5 times.