[GlobalMan]

From the article TLOZ linked:





Trumps response:






This is brilliant. The man is just on fire lately, truly battling on all fronts and winning

[Phoenix]

Meh, no president was ever going to be a fiscal conservative. The votes want a president that 'does something' (so they don't have to do it themselves), and doing something costs money.

The only constitutional mechanism that can reign in the federal government is the Article 5 convention, not the presidential election.

(05-05-2016 03:14 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

What profit motive is there for a private company to buy a bridge or road, unless it becomes toll based access?

Bingo. Tolls are very easy now, just the same as catching the train. You have an automatic e-reader in your car. Very common in Japan and Australia. And yes, you'd have to sell the bridges off at a moderate pace, not all at once.

(05-05-2016 03:42 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  

I doubt any of us were around to see it ourselves, but has history been re-written and all of us lied to in history class just to protect FDR's legacy? He did the job the people elected him to do, get them back to work...What else was he going to do with what he inherited from his predecessors?

Like Paracelsus said, we've been lied to about everything else. Why not this too?


Pretty telling, in spite of all of his 'putting people back to work'. Unemployment never dropped below 15% until men were packed off to war, and was back up to 20% in 1938 after 5years of his presidency.

There are vested political interests in having school children believe that myth.

Here is an even more telling picture:


See that blip after 1920? That's the 1920 Great Depression that never happened. Difference was the US had Harding and Coolidge as president: and they basically did nothing or even blocked things being done.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Guys, let's not get distracted by arguments about FDR. They can be continued elsewhere. This thread is about the proposal to rebuild America's infrastructure -- Rebuilding America -- which can help carry Trump to victory in November. Eyes on the prize, please.

Trump's strong pivot to the infrastructure theme yesterday is continuing to get a lot of attention. You can follow the latest tweets here:

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vert...e&src=typd

Examples:

https://twitter.com/nicolegelinas/status...4929752064

Quote:

Nicole Gelinas
‏@nicolegelinas

Once again, not a Trump fan, but the GOP lost this one by not caring/saying much about infrastructure for decades.

5:47 AM - 6 May 2016

https://twitter.com/dallasdan01/status/7...2948743168

Quote:

Dan Ackerman
‏@dallasdan01

#Trump will drastically cut int aid & put that $ toward infrastructure projects giving more latinos well paying jobs than any president

6:17 AM - 6 May 2016

Both supporters and opponents of Trump are recognizing how strong this issue is for him, and how sorely it's been missing from the Republican agenda.

[Deepdiver]

(05-06-2016 12:21 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

From the article TLOZ linked:





Trumps response:






This is brilliant. The man is just on fire lately, truly battling on all fronts and winning

Read my Ron Paul letter up-thread regarding Ryan's so called "fiscal restraint" ... laughable really after Ryan bulldozed a $2.3 Trillion omnibus budget through for Obama to make House and Senate budget peace for Hillary to sail through. Ryan has already cooperated with Obama to increase the Federal Debt by $1 Trillion USD in just the past 6 Months. Mr. Trump knows the chicuckens are coming home to roost on this exploding Ryan Obama debt bomb.

Ryan is a PROBAMA-Clinton Cuck of the highest order. First order of Trump biz in WisconSIN should be to rally Pastor Cruz's overwhelming TEA party army of evangelicals and Vote Ryan out on his treasonous PRO 300,000 ISIS sympathizing migrants loving liberal RINO tax and spend arse.

Mr. Trump is the first anti-Globalist True American PATRIOT we have be gifted to rally around since Ronald Reagan.

Anyone especially GOP party members who oppose Mr. Trump now that he is truly the Last Patriot Standing in the GOP needs to be marked in the Founders' book of American Freedom as a TRAITOR and dealt with accordingly when the time comes - at the minimum stripped of their GOPe power and influence.

[Phoenix]

I read about this Ryan guy recently. He is, and I don't use this phrase lightly...

Cuck as fuck.

I hope the mods will be lenient on me on using this kind of language.

[John Michael Kane]

All I have to say is: What the hell is going on with people in Wisconsin?

I've traveled through the state many times, and they are some of the nicest, down-to-Earth people you'll ever meet. That being said, they sent one of the biggest cucks ever to Washington.

I can only hope that Nehlen can trounce him:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/201...interview/

[Liberty Sea]

Obama smelt the popular potential of Trump's position and adopted it.


But he can't get it done.

[WanderingSoul]

(05-05-2016 04:42 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I would love to see American infrastructure improved.

I feel embarrassed for you guys arriving at JFK; airports in the 3rd World are better...and upon leaving it is painfully obvious how old and dilapidated things are.

I've oft wondered why there isn't a word for those, like me, who love America (anglophile, francophile etc)...It would be great for your collective national self esteem for the country to look and feel like the richest, most powerful nation on Earth.

I had my luggage lost at JFK.

We should deport half the fuckers who work there to the 3rd world also. Rude as fuck.

[John Michael Kane]

Having flown all over the world, and quite a bit throughout the United States, I can say that the only decent airport that we have is SFO. It is the only one that is clean, easy to navigate, has free wi-fi and generally gets the job done. Still, it can't hold a candle to South Korea's Icheon:



America needs Trump to use his gifts as a builder to make beautiful things again. Trump is a fan of beauty. He needs to sell the American people on the idea that we don't need to be an ugly country anymore. If South Korea can build a world-class airport, why can't we? We need some genuine patriotism in this country again, and one of the best ways for people to love the country is to build beautiful architecture. Trump instinctual gets that, but needs to actually debut some plans, not only for a beautiful border wall, but beautiful bridges that need to be replaced. Gorgeous civic buildings, etc. Let people dream alongside of him. Paint the narrative. Those people longing for beauty will fall in line.

[MMX2010]

One more day of reflecting on this makes me realize the ultimate beauty of TLOZ's proposal.

I don't want to talk down to anyone who participated in the ideological discussion of FDR, but how useless and disrespectful was it? Useless, because it didn't help us evaluate TLOZ's proposal; disrespectful, because there's plenty of space on this forum for that discussion.

Like I said, I don't want to shame the people who took part in that discussion. But I do want to shame ideology itself.

It doesn't matter whether ideology is left or right, masculine or feminine, pro-government or anti-government, religious or secular. What matters is that ideology always presents itself as the solution, BUT it never does anything. All it does is suggests highly expensive solutions designed to perpetuate the ideology.

Ideologies like Hillary will even use the right language, such as, "We need to learn to work together." But what could be a simpler, more concrete (heh), more profitable example of this than a multi-racial construction crew?

-----

I smiled broadly when Trump said in West Virginia, "Truthfully, I'd rather be a coal miner than a statistician." Because it doesn't matter that I'm smart enough to be a statistician, it matters that the type of intelligence needed to be a statistician also has a hard time connecting with regular people. And it matters that this type of intelligence is prone to ideology.

Trump's proposal brilliantly destroys all forms of ideology, and if you can see that, and love it, you'll be able to convert lots of Berniepeople to vote for Trump.

[John Michael Kane]

(05-06-2016 05:35 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

I smiled broadly when Trump said in West Virginia, "Truthfully, I'd rather be a coal miner than a statistician." Because it doesn't matter that I'm smart enough to be a statistician, it matters that the type of intelligence needed to be a statistician also has a hard time connecting with regular people. And it matters that this type of intelligence is prone to ideology.

Trump's proposal brilliantly destroys all forms of ideology, and if you can see that, and love it, you'll be able to convert lots of Berniepeople to vote for Trump.

Spot on. Think about his statement for a moment. A statistician is a passive person. All they do is collect numbers. They build nothing. A coal miner, even if it is a dirty job actually produces energy, and "high energy" is something that Trump has always associated himself with. It is a proactive job that powers an economy. Trump loves building. Ultimately he is a builder, first and foremost. In another life, I think he could have been one hell of a production designer for epic Hollywood movies like Ben Hur.

[MMX2010]

(05-06-2016 05:40 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

A coal miner, even if it is a dirty job actually produces energy, and "high energy" is something that Trump has always associated himself with. It is a proactive job that powers an economy.

John Michael Kane Wrote:

America needs Trump to use his gifts as a builder to make beautiful things again. Trump is a fan of beauty. He needs to sell the American people on the idea that we don't need to be an ugly country anymore. If South Korea can build a world-class airport, why can't we?

Your two posts above combine beautifully.

It won't merely be that building beautiful buildings and healing the economy will make people happy and wealthy. It will also be that the people will realize that we could've done this forty years ago, if only the politicians had surrendered to the builders.

Trump can not only win the Presidential election. He can also help the people adopt an anti-ideological, anti-politician, anti-academic detachment interpretation of history.

[El Chinito loco]

(05-06-2016 05:18 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(05-05-2016 04:42 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I would love to see American infrastructure improved.

I feel embarrassed for you guys arriving at JFK; airports in the 3rd World are better...and upon leaving it is painfully obvious how old and dilapidated things are.

I've oft wondered why there isn't a word for those, like me, who love America (anglophile, francophile etc)...It would be great for your collective national self esteem for the country to look and feel like the richest, most powerful nation on Earth.

I had my luggage lost at JFK.

We should deport half the fuckers who work there to the 3rd world also. Rude as fuck.

You can add LAX and Miami international to that list too.

Miami Inter in particular is full of thieving scumbags.

I actually had luggage tampered with there on a transit which has rarely happened even while traveling through many many developing world countries. That really says a lot that this shit happens in America of all places.

LAX is just full of knuckle dragging ghetto people working TSA. People that should be the ones being scrutinized by security are in charge of security here. I'm convinced that the only way to get a homeland security job is to have room temperature IQ and possess a criminal jacket somewhere. It's completely ridiculous.

Had one HS cunt actually wave me aside for additional luggage search because i've been in asia too long. Seriously, those were her exact words.

[Phoenix]

(05-06-2016 05:35 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

I don't want to talk down to anyone who participated in the ideological discussion of FDR, but how useless and disrespectful was it? Useless, because it didn't help us evaluate TLOZ's proposal; disrespectful, because there's plenty of space on this forum for that discussion.

Like I said, I don't want to shame the people who took part in that discussion. But I do want to shame ideology itself.
...
Trump's proposal brilliantly destroys all forms of ideology, and if you can see that, and love it, you'll be able to convert lots of Berniepeople to vote for Trump.

What a character you are. The FDR stuff was a very minor digression away from the center of TLOZ's point ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Wor...nistration ). It is a firm historical precedent, through The New Deal, of a president previously doing the similar stuff. It is reasonably on topic of a president "rebuilding America's infrastructure".

What you want is just pure deferential cult of personality. That's why you want no ideology -- no ideas -- don't think! Don't criticize TLOZ proposal -- just agree, just respect it automatically because it came from him. Don't criticize any of the ideas of Trump -- just follow along without a peep. Shut your brain off, get in rank, and start marching. Fuck that, 0% chance I'll ever join that crew.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Not missing a beat.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...0807581696

Quote:

Donald J. Trump Verified account
‏@realDonaldTrump

I am going to keep our jobs in the U.S., and totally rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. Crooked Hillary has no clue! @Teamsters

8:47 AM - 7 May 2016

[eljeffster]

America's greatest infrastructure projects were built by, or with substantial assistance from the U.S. Government.

1. The Panama Canal

Teddy Roosevelt sent warships to Colombia to get this thing started and the US government built it over ten years and massive amounts of capital to build it between 1904 and 1914. It was so expensive the Canal wasn't even profitable until the 1950's. Billions of dollars of trade go through this canal every year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Can....80.931914

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperien...ow/panama/

https://history.state.gov/milestones/189...nama-canal

2. The Hoover Dam

President Coolidge signed the The Boulder Canyon Project Act to get the Hoover Dam built which supplies vital electrical and water needs for many Western States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Dam#Background

3. Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways

About a quarter of all vehicle miles is driven on this system; cost 511 Billion in 2015 dollars and was championed by President Eisenhower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System

I strongly disagree with the statement that all types infrastructure will be built if government "only got out of the way." Great infrastructure to benefit the nation requires government involvement. Notice of course that the three examples of projects that I mention above were all championed or endorsed by Republican presidents.

I look forward to seeing what Trump plans to build for infrastructure to put him up on the list with Teddy and Dwight.

[John Michael Kane]

(05-06-2016 06:27 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

(05-06-2016 05:40 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

A coal miner, even if it is a dirty job actually produces energy, and "high energy" is something that Trump has always associated himself with. It is a proactive job that powers an economy.

John Michael Kane Wrote:

America needs Trump to use his gifts as a builder to make beautiful things again. Trump is a fan of beauty. He needs to sell the American people on the idea that we don't need to be an ugly country anymore. If South Korea can build a world-class airport, why can't we?

Your two posts above combine beautifully.

It won't merely be that building beautiful buildings and healing the economy will make people happy and wealthy. It will also be that the people will realize that we could've done this forty years ago, if only the politicians had surrendered to the builders.

Trump can not only win the Presidential election. He can also help the people adopt an anti-ideological, anti-politician, anti-academic detachment interpretation of history.

I think Trump needs to play up his strengths as a builder. Focus on talking to the American people, starting up great public works projects again. Building parks, repairing existing bridges, building new buildings, encouraging people to enjoy the Great American Outdoors via National Parks, etc. Emphasis on how much he loves the beauty of our country which will help deflect the medias portrayal as a hater.

[Lizard King]

(05-05-2016 07:43 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Right on cue, Trump starts a major campaign push for rebuilding America's infrastructure:

Donald Trump is campaigning on the new deal

Quote:

Appearing on CNBC’s Squawk Box, Trump reiterated his commitment to a massive increase in infrastructure spending. “Maybe my greatest strength is the economy, jobs, and building,” Trump said. “We do have to rebuild our infrastructure.”

“This is not something that’s front-and-center [for] a lot of far-right conservatives in terms of ... " right-leaning CNBC host Joe Kernen observed, before trailing off. “You’re not going to tack to the right to try to garner more support from that part of the party?”

“I don’t tack right or left. I tack what’s right,” Trump replied.

He's also talking about how he is an "infrastructure person", and how he "knows how to build". And he mentions how people who don't know the ins and outs of the business get taken for a ride by the construction companies, something that would never happen with him.

Basically, he is hitting every point in this post the morning after it was made.

Video is here:

Great video, and as per usual masterful rhetoric from Trump, but it's just rhetoric. He(Trump) recognises what the emerging nations(SE Asia) are doing, but it's just rhetoric. He doesn't say who is going to pay for it in America under his presidency.

It doesn't answer this question either thread-55581...pid1293781 Nor has anyone else answered that question, other than saying "the private sector will pay for it", which isn't really answering the question.

The private sector doesn't build infrastructure for free. Is every bridge going to have a toll? People get fed up with that, and it doesn't make people feel like they live in a great nation. Japan might have a great private rail system, I know nothing about it but I would hazard a guess that there is substantial governmental monitoring of the standards. The UK has a private rail system which uses rolling stock from the 80s and has chronic problems. Privately funded does not necessarily mean effective.

The crux of this thread is the importance of infrastructure, which is undoubtedly important to a nation. But it requires cash to make it happen. How is Trump going to raise that cash? I'm not doubting his ability, merely wanting to know how you(all of you) think he is going to make it happen.

[DamienCasanova]

(05-08-2016 10:39 AM)Lizard King Wrote:  

(05-05-2016 07:43 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Right on cue, Trump starts a major campaign push for rebuilding America's infrastructure:

Donald Trump is campaigning on the new deal

Quote:

Appearing on CNBC’s Squawk Box, Trump reiterated his commitment to a massive increase in infrastructure spending. “Maybe my greatest strength is the economy, jobs, and building,” Trump said. “We do have to rebuild our infrastructure.”

“This is not something that’s front-and-center [for] a lot of far-right conservatives in terms of ... " right-leaning CNBC host Joe Kernen observed, before trailing off. “You’re not going to tack to the right to try to garner more support from that part of the party?”

“I don’t tack right or left. I tack what’s right,” Trump replied.

He's also talking about how he is an "infrastructure person", and how he "knows how to build". And he mentions how people who don't know the ins and outs of the business get taken for a ride by the construction companies, something that would never happen with him.

Basically, he is hitting every point in this post the morning after it was made.

Video is here:

Great video, and as per usual masterful rhetoric from Trump, but it's just rhetoric. He(Trump) recognises what the emerging nations(SE Asia) are doing, but it's just rhetoric. He doesn't say who is going to pay for it in America under his presidency.

It doesn't answer this question either thread-55581...pid1293781 Nor has anyone else answered that question, other than saying "the private sector will pay for it", which isn't really answering the question.

The private sector doesn't build infrastructure for free. Is every bridge going to have a toll? People get fed up with that, and it doesn't make people feel like they live in a great nation. Japan might have a great private rail system, I know nothing about it but I would hazard a guess that there is substantial governmental monitoring of the standards. The UK has a private rail system which uses rolling stock from the 80s and has chronic problems. Privately funded does not necessarily mean effective.

The crux of this thread is the importance of infrastructure, which is undoubtedly important to a nation. But it requires cash to make it happen. How is Trump going to raise that cash? I'm not doubting his ability, merely wanting to know how you(all of you) think he is going to make it happen.

thread-55581...pid1294549

He will renegotiate our debt, stiff China and Japan, let our credit rating and dollar value drop, and use the extra money to rebuild our own country first.

[Phoenix]

(05-07-2016 05:50 PM)eljeffster Wrote:  

America's greatest infrastructure projects were built by, or with substantial assistance from the U.S. Government.

(05-08-2016 10:39 AM)Lizard King Wrote:  

The private sector doesn't build infrastructure for free. Is every bridge going to have a toll? People get fed up with that, and it doesn't make people feel like they live in a great nation. Japan might have a great private rail system, I know nothing about it but I would hazard a guess that there is substantial governmental monitoring of the standards.

On a right of center forum, public sector infrastructure is 'free' because the elevated bill for it is lumped and morally laundered into tax, and large government infrastructure projects are evidence of government expertise because let's ignore what never-to-be private sector projects those resources were drawn from.

I'm willing to concede. The right has been explaining away these fallacies for a century now and it makes zero difference. TLOZ is right to say Trump should put infrastructure rebuilding in his platform to improve his election odds.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

I saw a video recently where the presenter and the guy being intereviewed were in old Town Liverpool or such like. Both were commenting on how glorious the buildings were and how the current trendy downtown businesses occupying the buildings couldn't afford to put up such buildings. These businesses are coasting on the capital built up by previous generations.

Likewise, a degenerate generation ridden by a kleptocratic government can't stimulate the economy by creating programs to build things the previous generation could afford.

The real solution is to throw the low productivity people out, or kill them, and remove government impediments that prevent productive people from doing what.they do naturally, which is create wealth and value.

If you have a populace that naturally creates wealth and value, then building roads, harbors, airports, etc. Is no problem.

If you don't have a productive population, all the public works programs in the world will just turn you into.more of a.third world country

[SamuelBRoberts]

I meant to comment on this the first time around but didn't. Since it came up again in the main thread as an example of something that Trump's failing to do that could cost him his campaign, I thought I would bump this for further discussion.

"Spends lots of money on infrastructure projects to create jobs" has been a democratic talking point going back to at least the great depression. As far as I know, it hasn't excited anyone since the days of Roosevelt and his wheelchair.
Why does it suddenly become exciting just because Trump talks about it?

[Liberty Sea]

I think Trump's status as a builder with real experience and accomplishment would make a difference from those other career politicians.

[SamuelBRoberts]

Why, though? It's not that The idea is vague and cloudy. No one gets excited over the general concept of roads, bridges, and airports.

Trump already has a big, glorious building project: The Wall.
It's large, it's concrete, and it's something that everyone can instantly envision. Why does adding something so amorphous on top of it help?

[Tokyo Joe]

Better late than never! Trump is finally taking TLOZ's advice on the infrastructure policy proposal. It's unfortunate that he didn't take the initiative and announce this before the HAG. Still, he has more credibility on building things than she ever will. He needs to seize and own this topic over the next few months.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/us/....html?_r=0

The Shit-stained New York Times Wrote:

Donald Trump Proposes to Double Hillary Clinton’s Spending on Infrastructure

Donald J. Trump took a step to Hillary Clinton’s left on Tuesday, saying that he would like to spend at least twice as much as his Democratic opponent has proposed to invest in new infrastructure as part of his plan to stimulate the United States’ economy.

The idea takes a page out of the progressive playbook and is another indication that the Republican presidential nominee is prepared to break with the fiscal conservatism that his party has evangelized over the past eight years.

“We have bridges that are falling down,” Mr. Trump said on the Fox Business Network. “We have many, many bridges that are in danger of falling.”

...

If Mr. Trump’s call for more spending sounds familiar, that could be because Lawrence H. Summers, who was President Bill Clinton’s Treasury secretary and the director of President Obama’s National Economic Council, has been saying the same thing. At a Democratic National Convention round table last week in Philadelphia, he said the United States should invest between $1 trillion and $2 trillion in infrastructure over the next 10 years.

...