[General Stalin]

As of this post, these are the members who do not readily have $400 at their disposal in the case of an emergency:

AhabTravel, billbudsocket, BlueOcean, Captain Gh, Disco_Volante, EDantes, fugly1000, muscless, No Habit, tanner34, YoungAngel1, YoungBlade, Yurtley

I'd like to hear from these members on what their situations are like where that kind of money would break them so that we may help them out if possible.

This is not for shaming purposes. We are all mature, respectable, and respectful men and it behooves us to help one another in this community.

[samsamsam]

(04-27-2016 12:31 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

As of this post, these are the members who do not readily have $400 at their disposal in the case of an emergency:

AhabTravel, billbudsocket, BlueOcean, Captain Gh, Disco_Volante, EDantes, fugly1000, muscless, No Habit, tanner34, YoungAngel1, YoungBlade, Yurtley

I'd like to hear from these members on what their situations are like where that kind of money would break them so that we may help them out if possible.

This is not for shaming purposes. We are all mature, respectable, and respectful men and it behooves us to help one another in this community.

I was actually thinking about this today. I even wondered if I should or could make a financial contribution, if only somehow it could be done anonymously. If anyone has an idea on this let me know. I understand in a way, it may be enabling. But at the same time, I don't like seeing anyone struggle or suffer, as long as they own it.

I absolutely agree it is not about shaming, but to help.

[Gorgiass]

Wait, there's mailbox money in it? Too late to change my vote? Teach a man to fish...

[Seadog]

Saving money and having a cushion is easy. Just like being in reasonable shape is. Spend less than you earn. Burn more calories than you eat and exercise. But ready, cheap, easy food and credit turns it necessity into a contest of emotion and will, which many people simply do not have.

MMM has a great article saying if you want to you can. Your debt is an emergency!

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/1...emergency/

People love to come up with excuses, but you really just need to make uncomfortable choices. I once was renting a basement room for $300, didn't have a phone or internet, $150 food. No eating out or booze or entertainment, walked or biked everywhere, but made 650 a week working ft. Fun? not really. But read a lot and used net at library. Got in good shape since work gave us a gym membership. So is doable. Horrid for game though. Hell, a quick glance in Toronto shows beds still for 300-400.

Also just as an interesting aside since I'd seen these stats before and its always fun to shit on the rich for being crooked or inheriting it, but 62% of billionaires are self made:

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/269593

and 80-86% of millionaires:

http://www.thomasjstanley.com/2014/05/am...self-made/

[tanner]

(04-27-2016 12:31 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

As of this post, these are the members who do not readily have $400 at their disposal in the case of an emergency:

AhabTravel, billbudsocket, BlueOcean, Captain Gh, Disco_Volante, EDantes, fugly1000, muscless, No Habit, tanner34, YoungAngel1, YoungBlade, Yurtley

I'd like to hear from these members on what their situations are like where that kind of money would break them so that we may help them out if possible.

This is not for shaming purposes. We are all mature, respectable, and respectful men and it behooves us to help one another in this community.

This thread was supposed to about attempting to understand a present day economic reality that exists. Not about putting the spot light on individual members. All the information you need is on the article provided in the original post.

[lex the impaler]

Timely thread. I have way too many family members who unfortunately fall into this bucket by choice. They feel you have to spend every dollar you earn.

[General Stalin]

This is a discussion. Discussions evolve. The bottom line of this forum is self-improvement for men. Often times the natural progression of many topics here is "how can this help me/other men?"

[tanner]

I would rather stay on topic. You might consider starting your own thread then.

[samsamsam]

(04-27-2016 01:31 AM)Gorgiass Wrote:  

Wait, there's mailbox money in it? Too late to change my vote? Teach a man to fish...

I know...

But we have all had our moments, where we still believe we were trying, caught a break. We probably caught a break because we were sincere in our efforts to do well, we were pushing ourselves, maybe we were just a little outgunned in the moment and someone dropped a little mercy on us. I know I have experienced such mercy.

If any of you guys think you have not experienced such mercy, either: your ego won't let you acknowledge that someone might have helped you in your life (yes a stranger) or you don't generate good relationships or put out the vibe you are a decent human being, therefore no one wants to help you. Do not be fooled thinking that somehow all your achievements are a 100% you in a vacuum, that arrogance is very annoying.

My only issue with some posters is the unwillingness to own their lives. Other posters have owned their lives and have gotten nothing but support from me.

[samsamsam]

(04-27-2016 10:07 AM)tanner Wrote:  

I would rather stay on topic. You might consider starting your own thread then.

No.







Threads get started and then evolve by the comments and intentions of the members.

Plus, what more is there to say on the original topic.

Some have 400 bucks and some don't.

Some blame everyone else, some own it.

That pretty much covers the majority of the stuff we can discuss on this matter.

Now it is about ideas etc on raising 400 dollars, what is wrong with that?

(04-27-2016 10:07 AM)tanner Wrote:  

I would rather stay on topic. You might consider starting your own thread then.

I'd rather have a hot thin young chick with luscious breasts and a tight vagina letting me have my way with her and her twin sister. But nope, I have a keyboard.

[El Chinito loco]

About the topic of helping someone out financially..

I view lending money to someone as also investing in that person. I don't view it as charity at all because if I really believe in that person to lend them money then I know they will eventually get around to covering their debts in one way or another. I don't really ask for it back and I don't actually expect it back but often just let the initial judgement call play out.

I've only been wrong a couple times (for small amounts) with a couple people but it was no big loss. Once you know what their character is then that small initial financial outlay saves you a lot of time and hassle when you figure out you should cut them off from your life. It's a good trade off.

The ones that go out of their way to do something good with that money you lend and go way out of their way to make good on their debts make it completely worthwhile though.

Those are the people you want in your life.

[General Stalin]

(04-27-2016 10:07 AM)tanner Wrote:  

I would rather stay on topic. You might consider starting your own thread then.

Would you say... this topic is no longer going the direction you had hoped for?

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Take it easy, tanner. Part of the original post you made was a poll asking if the membership here would have difficulty coming up with $400 for an emergency. Almost 200 people have replied, and some of the guys are now analyzing that data, and more importantly asking questions and conversing about its effect(s). They are taking interest in your thread, not trying to derail.

One of the great things about the forum is the analysis and application of social and economic situations by forum members with specific expertise regarding details presented in the original post. It might take 50 perspectives and 10 pages of discussion, but ultimately we get to see all the angles and supporting/conflicting data and their sources.

If you don't want that in your threads, that's your decision to make known, but the rest of us might be missing out on something helpful if you discourage someone from adding to the thread.

[samsamsam]

(04-27-2016 10:48 AM)Gustavus Adolphus Wrote:  

If you don't want that in your threads, that's your decision to make known, but the rest of us might be missing out on something helpful if you discourage someone from adding to the thread.

Actually, he should start his own forum then.

[tanner]

I would rather let the moderators decide. I think this is borderline shaming by samsamsam and GS-- which I do not want any part of. Until then I am out of this discussion.

[samsamsam]

(04-27-2016 10:53 AM)tanner Wrote:  

I would rather let the moderators decide. I think this is borderline shaming by samsamsam and GS-- which I do not want any part of. Until then I am out of this discussion.

You have brought up shaming on at least 3 occasions.

[Seadog]

Whoa! Are you trying to shame him? Maybe post a trigger warning next time.

[General Stalin]

I understand some people may not want to come out and speak up if they are embarrassed about their personal situation and financial status, but I employ members to not feel so negatively judged and that we are a community of men looking to improve ourselves and others.

Regardless, I sent out a few PMs. I know from my personal experience and from seeing how all my friends live - paycheck-to-paycheck life is sort of the typical lifestyle of most people. Consumerism and living outside of your means is the culprit. People nickle and dime shit and don't see how it adds up.

Most of my friends will go out drinking and eat out multiple times a week. Especially after they get a paycheck, shelling out $20 for dinner and $10-$15 for a couple drinks doesn't seem to bad - then you do it a few times a week while also paying for gas, cover charges, and the oddball material thing you think you need/deserve and you just spend $100-$200 that you didn't need to spend. Hell, I did it just this past week, and I'll break it down.

I put aside a little more extra money than usual the past couple weeks because I was expecting an expense that I ended up not needed to pay for - but instead of putting away the money I let it burn a hole in my pocket. All seemingly cheap fun, but it added up quick.

Went out to lunch at work (chipotle): $10
Went to a cheap concert: $15
Had to pay to park: $5
Bought a shirt and a CD while I was there: $40
Washed my car: $9
Grabbed dinner for my mother and I: $20
Grabbed lunch with a plate and paid (cheap place good food): $30

Total: $129
That only 2 days. If I were serious about saving that money - I didn't need to do any of those things and I'd be $130 richer today. That's not much money to me, but "much" is relative to your income and lifestyle. To many people, even some on this forum, $130 can be a game changer.

[billbudsocket]

(04-27-2016 12:31 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

As of this post, these are the members who do not readily have $400 at their disposal in the case of an emergency:

AhabTravel, billbudsocket, BlueOcean, Captain Gh, Disco_Volante, EDantes, fugly1000, muscless, No Habit, tanner34, YoungAngel1, YoungBlade, Yurtley

I'd like to hear from these members on what their situations are like where that kind of money would break them so that we may help them out if possible.

I clicked the wrong button I'm in the other category, I've made $400 a couple times already today

[AneroidOcean]

You learn something new every day. I didn't realize you could see who voted for which category. Knowing that it's not exactly shaming to ask those users to share why they are in that position and especially what they plan to do in order to get out of it.

I'm in the position that for a true emergency many times that amount would be at my fingertips. In cash.

That is not to gloat. The way I came up with it is not exactly something I'm proud of. It was a shitty way to save, but it worked. I took some of the extra money I earn (in cash) and just kept hiding it away in the same spot. If that location burned down I would lose that money. That cash is devaluing all the time (since it's not earning any interest), but it's also not easily accessible to me like a savings account or a credit card is.

However, I also have a nice chunk of cash should I ever need it and nobody knows where it's located but me.

The nice thing is that you don't have to be perfect with saving or planning for the future. Even the MINIMUM level of effort can put you far ahead of the average. If you refine/improve that effort you can make even larger gains.

I look forward to learning more from the threads here as well as the membership with regards to how to take those steps. If those that are below the $400 emergency fund here can be honest with themselves and the membership as to the situation they're in, I imagine they can rather quickly get themselves in a better position. I hope they do.

(04-27-2016 01:21 PM)billbudsocket Wrote:  

I clicked the wrong button I'm in the other category, I've made $400 a couple times already today

Sounds like a possible datasheet topic.

[General Stalin]

(04-27-2016 07:00 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(04-27-2016 01:21 PM)billbudsocket Wrote:  

I clicked the wrong button I'm in the other category, I've made $400 a couple times already today

Sounds like a possible datasheet topic.

?

[god]

Most of my life I have been one that lives month-to-month. I usually never went completely broke. I could usually go out for dinner even on the tail end of a pay cycle, but I was never one to religiously maintain any emergency funds.

As of late, I make a descent enough paycheck that I can please my social needs and fund my living and some entertainment activities and still have some money left over at the end of the month. For that reason, I have actually been able to maintain and grow a small hoard of cash.

Any man that can maintain a descent amount of cash in saving off of the income equal to an E-3 or E-4 pay in the military has my respect. Shrewd frugal discipline is a strength that I admire and envy.

[General Stalin]

I'll be the first to admit I'm not good at putting away money. I happen to make enough where my lifestyle doesn't exhaust me, but I certainly find ways to beat down the cushion I build up. I never continually accumulate money, and that is my own short coming.

I'll have a decent chunk saved up every few months then I'll make a big purchase, or something will come along that takes a big bite. I could save more and be more more frugal than I am, and maybe I'd like to - but in the end it's going to be money that's saved to be spent, just on something bigger.

I have friends who make a helluva lot less than me who have a helluva lot more to show for it. I have a couple of friends with $20k - $30k saved up. They can afford a lot and still take out loans so they can build their credit, they just make double payments to save on the interest.

In light of a few things that have come up recent in my life, and reading over this thread, I would like to start factoring "saving" into my budget. A percentage of income that I will always put away regardless. Pretend it's money I don't actually have - it just goes straight into savings. I've done this in the past and there's no reason I can't to it again, just need to adjust my lifestyle a little and the adjustments would honestly make little noticeable difference.

That's one of the big things the check-to-check people don't realize. Once they get in the habit of saving, the small shallow pleasures they give up start to become unnoticeable and make little to know difference in your overall life and happiness.

[Neo]

Not a surprise. Most people are broke and their lifestyle is a complete facade.

I've always seen having savings as having freedom. The more money you can stockpile and invest wisely, the more free you are.

I learned the value of having a 'fuck you' fund at a young age. Just a simple observation of the world and how everybody was a consumerist slave. I've seen grown men cry as they were about to lose their jobs because they were living pay check to pay check. I never wanted to be like that.

The flip side of living minimalist is nobody has any idea. I'm not flashy. My car is old. I dress normal. I'm not making it rain in the club. I live simply. No girls going to go for me based on the 'flashy' factor. On the outside it looks like I probably don't have much at all. The only clue is my lack of fear, staying power, and the ability to walk. And it's this state of mind that lets you take more risks and accomplish more because you're pretty stress free.

[samsamsam]

If we want to get serious about money and boosting savings, and not discussing things we have no control over, then I think...

(TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING) (TRIGGER WARNING)

It comes down to emotional control.



At any point in time, we are constantly evaluating emotional reward. Will this coffee make me happier than the 5 dollars it costs, will buying this pig of a woman a drink make me happier than it will cost? ETC.

Immediate reward plays a huge role in the analysis of this emotional reward (economists call it Utility).

It is very hard for some people to imagine what $5 feels like or is worth 10 years down the road.


(SHAMING LANGUAGE AHEAD)
(SHAMING LANGUAGE AHEAD)
(SHAMING LANGUAGE AHEAD)











So if you want to get handle on your finances, you have to get a handle on yourself.

And for many, including myself, it is no fucking fun to do the internal work. To address the issues in our past that still in some way control our lives. Got rejected by girl and it hurt like fuck? It may still affect you. Look at all the posts that are all about emotional injury, it comes off like this girl was a bitch or my parents were terrible. But really, you got hurt. Your ego doesn't want you to deal with it.

You do stupid shit to numb the constant behind the scenes pain in your life. We all do it.

We can talk about the simple stuff, make more spend less.

But if you have no emotional control, it would be hard to do.

Stanford conducted a study called the marshmallow test. Basically, a kid got offered a marshmallow. If he could wait to eat, he would get another one. After 40 years, they studied the kids again. The one consistent driver that separated those who were successful and not were those who could delay gratification. Or in other words, they had emotional control.

http://jamesclear.com/delayed-gratification

Feel free to say I am being a dick. But I tried to give those who are sensitive enough warning. And I am sorry for those who have tough childhoods or have struggled, I am not lacking in compassion. But holding onto that pain, robs you of energy to be productive. I have been there. But what do you want? A better life? Or live in the past?