[DCM]

I'm finishing my engineering masters degree this summer and in the middle of the job application frenzy I've been thinking more and more about waiting a year with starting work. I realised I have had very little time 'off' throughout the years to work on my goals not related to education, or even just to properly consider what I really want to do with my life in the long run. I do enjoy my degree and I'm interested in the field I'm studying (pharmaceutical manufacturing), but the actual work definitely has the potential to become dull with time.


I have found the forum around the time I was beginning university and I have been making efforts to improve my life since, but I'm not quite where I want to be yet.
I have gone to banging a few girls from being a virgin, but far from what I would consider enough.
I have been working out for a few years now, but I would like to learn to fight alongside that as well (boxing maybe).
I have been toying with the idea of trying to make a living off the internet and establish a location independent lifestyle (I have made software in my free time which has been earning me 100-200 bucks/month, and with more time I should be able to expand on that or try other stuff like affiliate marketing, etc).
Starting a 9-5 job I would most likely be bound to a shitty small town (where most manufacturing sites are located) and have less free time of course, which would limit my options to work on these things, especially game. I would be earning decent money though, and since I wouldn't have many opportunities to spend it either I could get started on savings quite early, so it is still a viable option.


Now if I took a year off I could:
- Spend proper time on improving my game, which is much needed (I would move back to Hungary so better girls than here in the UK as well)
- Learn a martial art, gain more confidence in that regard
- Try making a living off the internet / starting a business to potentially avoid a 9-5 job altogether
- Do other minor things which would be possible while working as well, but would be easier with more time (reading more, learning to play the guitar better finally, working on my rusty french, etc)

But:
- I would have to move back in with my parents
- I don't want them to pay for my life, so if my business ventures fail I could end up having to take some low level job, wasting considerable amounts of time
- I would postpone earning proper cash and delay my career by a year
- It could be more difficult to get a job in Western Europe since I'd be applying from abroad


I haven't made a decision yet and I still have a few months to do so, but after thinking about this for some days now, I'm leaning towards taking a year off unless a dream job offer comes in. I think the risk-reward ratio is quite good and looking back as an aging 9-5 drone stuck in a corporate job I would probably regret not even trying to avoid going straight down the 'boring' route. At the very least I could improve my game which would help me throughout a professional career as well, and I think one year isn't that much time in terms of delaying a career (people doing PhDs or longer masters courses would still be behind me).

I am wondering what the more experienced of you guys think though. Is a solid year of self-improvement worth delaying a professional career? I would very much appreciate your opinions or experience with similar situations, because I'm not sure if I've considered every important factor and if I'm thinking completely objectively here; and everyone else I could ask (parents, friends) is either biased and/or blue pill.

[samsamsam]

A year of your life won't matter much many years from now. At your age one year may seem like a lot.

The only issue is being able to transition to employment when you feel the time is right. Some people can not understand it. Or they only understand it if a woman does it because she wanted to do her "Eat, Pray, Love, Tell Everyone How Awesome I Am" year.

If you can be productive during your year off, do it. BUT - LISTEN TO ME CAREFULLY, you have to be ok with your transition to work when your year is up. What I mean is, if you have a hard time finding a job and you struggle, etc. DON'T BITCH. Because you chose to take a year off.

[polar]

If you miss the on campus recruiting cycle, you'll have a much harder time finding a job.

Your resume will look much different (read: worse) if you have a one year gap without formal employment...and your ability to negotiate salary will be lower. You'll need to network into a company just to get your resume looked at.

Better to delay graduation (take one class at the same time as on campus recruitment) and take time in between. Twist your career office counselor's arm so they let you take some time, and to ensure that you will have equal access to recruiting.

Maybe it's time to get yourself checked out by a trustworthy doctor you've known for an extended amount of time and get those lingering health issues identified, so you can take some medical leave from university before you wrap up instead.

[Peregrine]

Quote:

I haven't made a decision yet and I still have a few months to do so, but after thinking about this for some days now, I'm leaning towards taking a year off unless a dream job offer comes in. I think the risk-reward ratio is quite good and looking back as an aging 9-5 drone stuck in a corporate job I would probably regret not even trying to avoid going straight down the 'boring' route. At the very least I could improve my game which would help me throughout a professional career as well, and I think one year isn't that much time in terms of delaying a career (people doing PhDs or longer masters courses would still be behind me).

Don't do it. I'm assuming you're young. You can do a 9 to 5 and work on yourself in the evenings. Taking the job in your field gives you positive cash flow and the opportunity to meet more senior people. These senior people will be the ones hooking you up with jobs later on if your business venture falls through. They might even partner with you on a venture.

I thought about pissing off to Thailand with no set return date after doing my undergrad, but didn't. In hindsight, it would've been a huge mistake.

[Constitution45]

I would take a job of some sort that will allow you to focus. It can be incredibly hard to do things such as learning guitar, starting an online business (out of nowhere) while not having much money and staying at home. In terms of motivation, when you have money and a routine already set into place, it's easier to create better habits, if that makes any sense. I am just saying that because I did something similar to this before university.

[The Beast1]

All of the people I know who took a year off ended up with nothing to show for it. Don't waste your time. Do something useful that furthers your career (peace corps, volunteer, teach english, etc) and learn the fun stuff on the side.

[fiasco360]

I'm in a very similar boat to you. I'm finishing my masters degree in engineering this spring and haven't really had a "break" before.

I'm taking 3-4 weeks off to travel, then getting into working. I don't have anything formally lined up yet, but I am still applying. Finishing my internship up right now too.

[Afarang]

My advice: ask yourself what you REALLY want to do, and then do that.


I left for Thailand in the hope of running my own online venture. I've been here 4 years now and make more money than most of my friends back home.

[DCM]

Thanks everyone for the replies. It seems I have underestimated the difficulty of getting back to a regular work routine after missing a year (probably because I have never really been out of a regular work routine). You don't usually hear about these difficulties from people who go travelling for a year after university either.

The best option might be to look for a job which isn't exactly what I was planning to do, but is located in a larger city/involves travelling and more human interaction then. It's possible to get into a fairly wide range of positions with an engineering degree, so this could be a reasonable option for working on other goals on the side without spending a year out of the loop.

On the other hand, I'd only be starting work in September anyway, so I'll have a few months off in the summer which should give me an idea of how productive I can be when I have more free time. If it works out very well there will still be time to reconsider then.

[zatara]

(04-15-2016 07:44 PM)polar Wrote:  

If you miss the on campus recruiting cycle, you'll have a much harder time finding a job.

Your resume will look much different (read: worse) if you have a one year gap without formal employment...and your ability to negotiate salary will be lower. You'll need to network into a company just to get your resume looked at.

Better to delay graduation (take one class at the same time as on campus recruitment) and take time in between. Twist your career office counselor's arm so they let you take some time, and to ensure that you will have equal access to recruiting.

Maybe it's time to get yourself checked out by a trustworthy doctor you've known for an extended amount of time and get those lingering health issues identified, so you can take some medical leave from university before you wrap up instead.

This isn't really applicable to the UK/Europe, where taking a year off as a career break is quite normal. I'd say 80% of my white collar friends have done so at some stage in their 20s. As long as you can sell it to an employer at interview stage that you actually did something worthwhile with your time - ie traveled extensively, started a business, whatever - it won't cause a major problem.

OP, it sounds like you're not entirely ready to enter the workforce yet, which is fine. But to actually make the most of a gap year you're going to need money. You need to make very sure that you don't just decide to take the gap year, then end up moving in with your parents and sitting idle for months on end with no money to do anything.

Given your business plans have very little income at present I'd say you should move home, try to get some sort of not-too-strenuous office temp gig for a 6 month contract, then work on your business ventures/self-development on the side while doing that. If you focus on saving every penny you earn for this period after 6 months you should have enough saved to be able to bankroll a long-term trip around South America/Asia/wherever you desire thats got cheap living costs.

You can continue working on your business ventures while abroad. Worst case scenario you come home after 6 months of this and you've spent a year working on your business/self development, and 6 months traveling. You can then settle into your long-term career knowing you at least gave your dream/something different a shot.

Best case (though significantly less likely) scenario your business ventures take off, and you find somewhere in a developing country you fall in love with and can spend a few years living location independently.

[RedPillUK]

I'm confused, if you're worried about an empty year affecting your employment chances, couldn't you just change some of the dates around on there? If they find out, which is unlikely, you could just say it was a mistake. I forget the dates that I started and finished jobs or qualifications or whatever, so I put down a rough estimate half the time.

Or you could just put down self employed or starting a business as stated above, especially as you are planning to continue with your business ventures while travelling. I don't think that would look bad to an employer.

[Seth_Rose]

Similar situation here. My plan is to find a good job then put my head down for 2-4 years and work, save as much as possible, plus work on my side hustles. When those side hustles become profitable enough to live on, then I'll quit.

Have you started on your business or other idea? If not what you have to start ASAP. I've been working online for 2.5 years, and am still far from where I want to be so give yourself plenty of time to grow your income online.

[samsamsam]

(04-16-2016 06:18 AM)DCM Wrote:  

Thanks everyone for the replies. It seems I have underestimated the difficulty of getting back to a regular work routine after missing a year (probably because I have never really been out of a regular work routine).

It is very difficult when you have to explain why you choose to fuck off for a year. When everyone is trying to get a job. Young people already have a bad reputation, you would be considered not one of the better ones for your decision making. I probably should have mentioned that in my earlier post but was in a rush. But I think I captured it under the "you need to be ok with the struggle to get a job after your year comment."

But, as someone who is a bit older, one year is not much in your life when you look back.

Depending where you go work, some places are used to having college students take the summer before starting work. Consulting, banking, accounting, etc they have their whole recruitment program geared around their staff starting after taking a summer break. Not sure if that applies to your industry.

With that time off you could do something before starting your job.

[Lime]

I will also be in the same situation. I can do an extra Specialization which will give me 14 months extra covered on my resume by studies, while not having to do much (a lot of free months before the new cycle starts). I can travel for 8 months or so while it looks like Im studying. Or do an internship. Or, more likely, both.

Putting up 'smokescreens' like this to cover resume gaps seems like a great idea for people our age.

[Off The Reservation]

(04-15-2016 06:00 PM)DCM Wrote:  

- I would have to move back in with my parents

That's not a year off. That's reverting back to high school style life.

Wait until you can pay for the year off, or find a way to do it without being in your parents home.

Or better yet throw away this ridiculous idea of "on" or "off" and do what you like doing, every single day.

[Brodiaga]

Do it, but be smart about it. Don't waste your time drinking beer with some losers in Pattaya or whatever. Spend it working on your own business. Have an emergency fund and a plan to go back if things go wrong.

Edit: I am assuming you don't have student loans or significant debt. I'm also assuming that your parents are supportive and will help you out in case you run out of money and need a place to crash to get back on your feet.

Another point: life is about knowing your options and taking the best course of action given these options. For example, if you decide to travel, book your tickets and everything, but suddenly get an offer for a great job that pays 6 figures with great career prospects, throw away the tickets and take that offer.

[Mindless Drone]

Echoing the themes of Samsamsam and Brodiga - Figure out how you would spend that "year off" and what your goals would be. You've started to do this already, but really define out what the upside is and what a successful year is. If you can live at home, rent free or low cost (I know you don't want to mooch, so figure out a number that fair to both them and you but won't involve a time wasting job as you mentioned), that's huge. I would, as you noted, build out your side business/freelancing as much as you can in that year (how much passive revenue, how many clients do you want by the end of the year?), while also knocking out any other big goals (i.e., learn another language that will help your career, focus heavily on martial arts, get laid, whatever). Once you clearly have identified what a successful "off year" looks like, you can do a better job of comparing it against grabbing a traditional job.

I used to tell people to get into the work force ASAP no matter what, because it used to be the best way to start networking and getting real world experience. I still largely believe this, but for many fields, building up a client base and internet presence is an acceptable or superior substitute. For you, since you've already started down this path with your software, so you have a leg up going independent. But it really depends. Pharma gigs are pretty damn lucrative, and the real life experience you get from them makes it worth putting a few years in before going freelance- that's a very regulated field so having the real life experience with a recognizable name is important.

The bottom line though is you need to clearly quantify what you would do with that "off year" so it doesn't become a "lost year." Once you can figure out the value you think you'll extract from it, it'll give you a better idea in your mind of what salary for a "regular job" is worth taking and what isn't.

[DCM]

Drone and Brodiaga what you have outlined is almost exactly the conclusion I came to as well.

First of all a year off would have to be planned out very carefully and I would have to make sure to spend if efficiently, keeping in mind that I could be working a proper job instead. I'm looking into the exact details of running an online business and a lifestyle based off it, and I will be drawing up a schedule of how I would spend the year to get a good idea of the value I could get out of it. I'd have to consider if things like travelling for example - as zatara suggested - would be beneficial overall (for working on game and just the fun of it versus the money it would take).

At the same time I'll keep applying for jobs and if I get a position at a top of the line company I'll take it and postpone focussing on other stuff by a few years. If I don't, I'll consider the value of other job offers I have versus the value I could get from the year off, and go with the better option.


The reason I am leaning towards doing it now instead of after a few years of work like Seth_Rose is planning to is I'm afraid that if I got a good job going, when the time comes I would just settle with that and wouldn't take the risk of losing it versus a chance of making my own business work. Without having anything serious going on it would be much easier to fully focus on other goals (in terms of the willpower to do it, I mean, not just time).


Based on some replies it seems that it is much less acceptable to take a year out in the US than here in the EU, where quite a few people do it and you are even allowed to apply for graduate schemes if you did as well. Nonetheless, the aspect of the loss of a regular work routine and the difficulty of fitting back into the workforce is a very good point and I would definitely need to spend time on keeping up with news in the field, revision of university material, etc if I took a year off.

[jake1720]

This happened to me.

What I did is chase my goals whilst doing engineering. For periods I managed to go out 3-4 nights a week all while studying engineering (for part of it at a top university).

Working out also. It's tough but definitely possible.

[Stallion]

Your whole dilemma is based on assumptions that are false, in my experience.

a) It's impossible to find a job in EE. FALSE. If you are a GOOD engineer, with marketable skills, this is not true. The main problem when you apply from abroad is that companies need to sponsor your visa. This is not the case inside Europe. In my experience and the experience of many fellow engineers I know, it is much easier to find a job anywhere in Europe than you think. Even if you speak good English. If you speak the local language, it may be easier than back home. The only way to be sure is if you start sending resumes.

b) Cool places don't have engineering jobs. TOTALLY FALSE. I did an internship in a Thai high tech company in Bangkok. Best year of my life. My boss always complained that he couldn't find decent candidates for junior positions in mechanical and electronics. Apparently he wanted to hire TEN new guys straight from university. No Thai student survived the interview, they where desperate for white engineers (it is also a status symbol for the company to have EU/USA employees).

c) Companies don't like when you take a year off. In my experience in Europe, THEY LOVE IT. With all the HR bullshit about multiculturalism and international blah blah, they will ask more questions about your travels than about university. I have no idea about the US though.


Some may say I'm too optimistic, I say don't underestimate an engineering degree, if you know how to sell yourself you can go anywhere you want.

[Brodiaga]

^Stallion, what's the best way to find these job opportunities in Asia? Not only for engineers, but for professionals in general.

[Easy_C]

(04-16-2016 03:28 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

All of the people I know who took a year off ended up with nothing to show for it. Don't waste your time. Do something useful that furthers your career (peace corps, volunteer, teach english, etc) and learn the fun stuff on the side.

That would be my advice as well. Don't take a "year off". Make sure that you have some kind of structure for that year. Peace Corps would be a great idea because you'll come away from it with new language skills, a new perspective on the world, and a lot of cool stories that will enhance your resume and your game (both sales and girls).


This may be a little bit trite of an opinion, but I think it's very difficult to be truly "redpill" unless you've been exposed to a society other than your home.

Also worth looking into are any fellowship type programs. There's a decent number of them out there and it's a far cry from all of them being Rhodes scholar levels of competitive.

Not sure if this site is helpful but it's a small sampling of shit you can do. Hell, you can even be a ski bum.

http://www.gooverseas.com/gap-year/after-college

[DCM]

(04-17-2016 12:59 PM)Stallion Wrote:  

Your whole dilemma is based on assumptions that are false, in my experience.

a) It's impossible to find a job in EE. FALSE. If you are a GOOD engineer, with marketable skills, this is not true. The main problem when you apply from abroad is that companies need to sponsor your visa. This is not the case inside Europe. In my experience and the experience of many fellow engineers I know, it is much easier to find a job anywhere in Europe than you think. Even if you speak good English. If you speak the local language, it may be easier than back home. The only way to be sure is if you start sending resumes.

I may not have worded this correctly in the OP, but what I meant was in terms of not being able to show up to interviews/assessment centres in an other country unless the company paid for travel expenses, which would probably hinder my chances with some employers. I would still be applying from the EU so visas/work permits are no problem. With regards to finding a job in EE (or at least in Hungary) it isn't much more difficult than in the UK, but the salaries are massively different (starting salaries for similar positions pay 3-4x more in the UK) so I have no desire to apply at home in the first place.

(04-17-2016 12:59 PM)Stallion Wrote:  

b) Cool places don't have engineering jobs. TOTALLY FALSE. I did an internship in a Thai high tech company in Bangkok. Best year of my life. My boss always complained that he couldn't find decent candidates for junior positions in mechanical and electronics. Apparently he wanted to hire TEN new guys straight from university. No Thai student survived the interview, they where desperate for white engineers (it is also a status symbol for the company to have EU/USA employees).

I haven't been considering Asia for jobs at all, but it sounds like there could be some good opportunities there as well. I certainly wouldn't mind ending up in Asia, so I'll take a look at job listings there when I get the time.

(04-17-2016 02:06 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

That would be my advice as well. Don't take a "year off". Make sure that you have some kind of structure for that year. Peace Corps would be a great idea because you'll come away from it with new language skills, a new perspective on the world, and a lot of cool stories that will enhance your resume and your game (both sales and girls).


This may be a little bit trite of an opinion, but I think it's very difficult to be truly "redpill" unless you've been exposed to a society other than your home.

Also worth looking into are any fellowship type programs. There's a decent number of them out there and it's a far cry from all of them being Rhodes scholar levels of competitive.

I have lived in the US for a year and in the UK for 4, so I've seen some other societies, although I have not been to Asia yet. Travelling would definitely be a good idea if I can find a way to afford it. Volunteering would get me abroad cheap, but it wouldn't leave much time to focus on anything else other than the work there, I assume, which wouldn't directly further any of my goals for the year.

[Andre]

This thread is right up my ballpark. I graduate with a bachelor degree with top grades last summer and I went to continue with a masters degree. Long story short, I realised that I did not want to pursue it anymore at this point of my life. So I moved back to my mom´s place this weekend. Granted, I am 26 and living at home is not what I really want to do, but I have the same thoughts. My rough sketch plan now is to work for 6 months or so while setting up my business (no experience) and then fuck off to Asia or SA.

[Fortis]

I'm not sold on the gap year. it almost always ends up being a year of partying and getting fat for guys, when they could have been working, making money, hitting the gym and doing a ton of other productive things.

A lot of guys leave university and stop thinking like a student, which is a mistake. Unless you are very disciplined or come from money, I think a gap year isn't a great idea.