[JohnKreese]

Quote:

That's a great result JohnKreese, congratulations. Have you experienced any negative sides at all? Have your estrogen levels increased?

Thanks. I had been trying different things for close to a year with no avail. For now, Clomid has been the answer.

Like I mentioned in my post, my estrogen has gone up a bit, but nowhere close to how much my T has gone up.

(05-27-2016 08:38 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

Here's my question:

Why take clomid instead of testosterone if you want to raise your low-testosterone?

Just seems sort of round about. Like guys who focus on lifestyle 100% and and never cold approach because it'll help "raise their value!"

I'm not being sarcastic, I just want to know why. Anyone?

My endocrologist is pretty good about trying less, for lack of a better term, "permanent" options when it comes to TRT. Clomid was the last ditch effort before going with injections. Clomid is not replacing my body's natural T production (which I like for now) and if I stop Clomid or don't have access to it (which can happen when traveling for long periods of time) I won't have the negative side effects that many experience when stopping TRT (my T would likely drop, but my body would still be producing at its normal levels).

I will continue to have labs done 4 times a year and if Clomid stops having the same positive effects, I will likely look into injections.

[birthday cat]

(05-28-2016 10:20 AM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

Thanks. I had been trying different things for close to a year with no avail. For now, Clomid has been the answer.

...

My endocrologist is pretty good about trying less, for lack of a better term, "permanent" options when it comes to TRT. Clomid was the last ditch effort before going with injections.

What else did your endocrinologist have you try over the last year?

[JohnKreese]

(05-29-2016 05:58 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 10:20 AM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

Thanks. I had been trying different things for close to a year with no avail. For now, Clomid has been the answer.

...

My endocrologist is pretty good about trying less, for lack of a better term, "permanent" options when it comes to TRT. Clomid was the last ditch effort before going with injections.

What else did your endocrinologist have you try over the last year?

I started with DHEA and Anastrozole. This led to slight initial increases, but my estrogen levels got down to single digits. Cut down from every other day to one day each week. This led to the sub-300 number that I mentioned in my initial post.

Now my regime is: DHEA once a day, Anastrozole twice each week (may move to three days a week), and 25mg of Clomid every day.

[ScrapperTL]

The Arimistane in Red PCT (Victor Pride/Chris Deoudes Supplement company) is a Suicide Inhibitor much like Exemestane.

Suicide Inhibitors are awesome because
1) Lower E2 Significantly without crushing it like Aromatase Inhibitors (Saves your Libido and Joints)
2) Lowers SHBG so you have more Free Testosterone
3) There is no Estrogen Rebound upon cessation (stopping) of Suicide Inhibitors, Aromatase Inhibitors DO cause significant rebound (Letrozole, Arimidex)

Suicide Inhibitors have some advantages over SERMS in that
1) No worry of "eye floaters" (not everyone is susceptible to this)
2) Does not pseudo-elevate Estrogen on a Blood Test (not a big deal, SERMS will elevate your estrogen level on a blood test, get over it! This is not real elevated estrogen)
3) Will dry you out like an Aromatase Inhibitor (though not as much) giving your physique a tighter look
4) Not going to mess with your mood, Clomid has been anecdotally known to flood your consciousness with an estrogenic mindset

SERMS has benefits over Suicide Inhibitors and Aromatase
1) Stimulate FSH/LH (great if your looking to slang lots of sperm around or make babies)
2) Will not affect your joints or libido negatively like an AI will or an SI might
3) Will not lower estrogen, instead it just floats around the blood stream without the ability to attach to any receptors
4) Blocks/clogs all of your estrogen receptors with a benign estrogen - in theory your estrogen could be through the roof on a blood test, however SERMS wouldn't allow them to fulfill their estrogenic goals at the receptor level.

Instead of mid to high dose daily SERM use a better option would be Low Dose daily SERM + Suicide Inhibitor use.

This should produce a much more alpha male mindset + physique.
Think 12.5mg Clomid + 12.5mg Arimistane per day
or 10mg Nolva + 10mg Exemestane per day

This combo will result in lower E2, lower SHBG, increased Free Testosterone, drier physique, stimulated FSH/LH, no impact on libido/joints, the ability to "stop" using and not having to deal with estrogen rebound, etc...

If you want to go 100% OTC, Transdermal Resveratrol has been shown to have SERM like activity at the estrogen receptor.
Probably would have to use a very large dose to get similar effect to low dose clomid though.

[VincentVinturi]

@ScrapperTL

Low dose SERM + Suicide inhibitor sounds like it would be worth trying.

Any concern of liver toxicity with all of these orals?

[ScrapperTL]

I don't see any liver problems arising from low dose SERM + SI, however I cannot guarantee anything.

If you want to go 100% OTC, you can use Transdermal Resveratrol here @ http://prototypenutrition.com/r-spray.html

Trans-Res has been shown in studies to occupy (in a benign way) the estrogen receptors in breast tissue, which makes it very SERM like.

and Red PCT here @ https://redsupplements.com/product/red-pct/

Arimistane is the main ingredient and it is a very potent Suicide Inhibitor (not as potent as Exemestane, but hey its OTC!)

No need or fancy sourcing or worrying about getting your shit grabbed at customs.
This combo right here should in theory have a lot of masculine benefits.

[Dominicus]

(04-14-2016 04:15 PM)ChokingHazard Wrote:  

Dominicus & Lifeizfun

Are you still taking it / is the idea to take it forever? I never understood this about Clomid. If you stopped taking it, how are your T levels then?
I like the idea of boosting T via boosting LH, especially if you have low normal LH levels this seems to make sense to me. Much more then suppressing normal T production with Testogel etc.

(04-08-2016 06:22 AM)Dominicus Wrote:  

I'm lucky to be married to an endocrinologist who diagnosed me with hypogonadism.
After searching a bit I persuaded her to prescribe me Clomid (25mg/day). My T went from 250 to 724 in about 1,5 month.
Can't say anything for Estrogen but my Prolactine level remained steady. After reading you gents I'll ask for a Prolactine test next time.
Positive effects (40yrs old): higher sex drive, morning erection is systematic, more assertiveness.

Late reply but still.
The initial idea was to take Clomid for 6 months then stop & test hormones.
These tests weren't done for some reason and I started feeling less energetic after 2 months or so without Clomid. So I started taking it again. My wife believes it should be taken for a short time to stimulate the body testosterone production. Any testosterone substitution therapy is supposed to weaken natural production making you dependent on therapy in the long term.
As for me I am reminded of the need to do the tests. I'll post the results.

[lex the impaler]

Thought I'd give an update on my TRT journey. I considered TRT, but after speaking with the folks at a well known online HRT clinic, they put me on low dose clomid. 25mg every other day + an AI 0.1mg every other day. Cost is $60-$70 per month. This was enough to take my T levels from 450-925. LH levels also went up. I've been on this program since July of this year, and its working well so far. A lot of the mental fog has gone, and I have a noticeable increase in libido. My ball are still super small, but they always have been. Been making lots of gains at the gym as well. I'd recommend this route, except for one caveat, i.e. there's no conclusive evidence of the long term effects of taking low dose clomid. Eventually when I hit my low 30s, I'd like to explore using TRT, just to try out some of the supposed superpower effects.
Posted in the TRT thread as well.

[DarkTriad]

(04-08-2016 12:58 PM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 07:12 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

It's nice that you're feeling great now, but clomid tends to raise your estrogen, subsequently offsetting the benefits you get from higher T. Then within a couple months from now, you're back to where you started.

Clomid IS an Estrogen (completely benign) and it competes with other Estrogens at the receptor site, blocking their estrogenic actions.

This is what eventually can lead to increased Testosterone levels (although some research has shown Clomid to have some merit for powering up the LH/FSH system as well)

As a result this could "possibly" show up as increase Estrogen on a blood test, but it is not the real thing.

The only true negative side effects of Clomid are that it unfavorably effects some peoples Vision (floaters) and Emotions (anecdotal).

No need to worry about Estrogenic side-effects while on Clomid.

Also, Progesterone has been shown to naturally rise with Testosterone, your Doc putting you on Arimidex for increase Progesterone seems amateurish, especially when you already have Clomid in your system binding to estrogenic receptor sites.

A lot of anti-aging clinics are now prescribing Progesterone and Pregnenolone Transdermal Creams to men to increase Neurotransmitter function, which then restores your Adrenal Gland output, leading to increase DHEA, Testosterone, Thyroid Hormones and lowered Cortisol.

Try to get switched to Exemestane from Arimidex.
Exemestane (commonly known as Aromasin) is the fucking bomb.
Exemestane is a Suicide Inhibitor that lowers SHBG, causes ZERO Estrogen Rebound upon cessation of use and doesn't crush your Estrogen levels like Arimidex/Letrozole (Aromatase Inhibitors) will.

Glad to have a knowledgable bro contribute.

"The only true negative side effects of Clomid are that it unfavorably effects some peoples Vision (floaters) and Emotions (anecdotal)."

My friend took it, got the same kind of T boost described above. According to him, the "No need to worry about Estrogenic side-effects while on Clomid." is a bit exagerrated - it binds to the receptor without the same strength as normal estrogen, which tends to block most estrogenic effects, but you're still getting SOMETHING binding to the receptor and having some action.

He said he felt like a woman on her period emotionally...why do that to yourself? He ended up just going on (fully legal) HRT and feels like the hulk without getting PMS. Why deal with the extra hassle of the Clomid route?

[ScrapperTL]

(11-09-2016 11:02 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(04-08-2016 12:58 PM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 07:12 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

It's nice that you're feeling great now, but clomid tends to raise your estrogen, subsequently offsetting the benefits you get from higher T. Then within a couple months from now, you're back to where you started.

Clomid IS an Estrogen (completely benign) and it competes with other Estrogens at the receptor site, blocking their estrogenic actions.

This is what eventually can lead to increased Testosterone levels (although some research has shown Clomid to have some merit for powering up the LH/FSH system as well)

As a result this could "possibly" show up as increase Estrogen on a blood test, but it is not the real thing.

The only true negative side effects of Clomid are that it unfavorably effects some peoples Vision (floaters) and Emotions (anecdotal).

No need to worry about Estrogenic side-effects while on Clomid.

Also, Progesterone has been shown to naturally rise with Testosterone, your Doc putting you on Arimidex for increase Progesterone seems amateurish, especially when you already have Clomid in your system binding to estrogenic receptor sites.

A lot of anti-aging clinics are now prescribing Progesterone and Pregnenolone Transdermal Creams to men to increase Neurotransmitter function, which then restores your Adrenal Gland output, leading to increase DHEA, Testosterone, Thyroid Hormones and lowered Cortisol.

Try to get switched to Exemestane from Arimidex.
Exemestane (commonly known as Aromasin) is the fucking bomb.
Exemestane is a Suicide Inhibitor that lowers SHBG, causes ZERO Estrogen Rebound upon cessation of use and doesn't crush your Estrogen levels like Arimidex/Letrozole (Aromatase Inhibitors) will.

Glad to have a knowledgable bro contribute.

"The only true negative side effects of Clomid are that it unfavorably effects some peoples Vision (floaters) and Emotions (anecdotal)."

My friend took it, got the same kind of T boost described above. According to him, the "No need to worry about Estrogenic side-effects while on Clomid." is a bit exagerrated - it binds to the receptor without the same strength as normal estrogen, which tends to block most estrogenic effects, but you're still getting SOMETHING binding to the receptor and having some action.

He said he felt like a woman on her period emotionally...why do that to yourself? He ended up just going on (fully legal) HRT and feels like the hulk without getting PMS. Why deal with the extra hassle of the Clomid route?

DarkTriad, I agree with mostly everything you said.
There are pros and cons to both routes.
Some people don't experience any side effects and only benefits from Clomid administration, others aren't so lucky.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a "one size fits all" solution.

An example for you is:
When I take Letrozole, even at very low doses, I feel physically horrible.
Alternatively while on Exemestane, I feel like King Alpha Male.
Steroids that cannot convert into DHT make me Lethargic.
Steroids that have a pathway to DHT, give me massive Energy.

[rhodey]

(11-09-2016 11:02 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(04-08-2016 12:58 PM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 07:12 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

It's nice that you're feeling great now, but clomid tends to raise your estrogen, subsequently offsetting the benefits you get from higher T. Then within a couple months from now, you're back to where you started.

Clomid IS an Estrogen (completely benign) and it competes with other Estrogens at the receptor site, blocking their estrogenic actions.

This is what eventually can lead to increased Testosterone levels (although some research has shown Clomid to have some merit for powering up the LH/FSH system as well)

As a result this could "possibly" show up as increase Estrogen on a blood test, but it is not the real thing.

The only true negative side effects of Clomid are that it unfavorably effects some peoples Vision (floaters) and Emotions (anecdotal).

No need to worry about Estrogenic side-effects while on Clomid.

Also, Progesterone has been shown to naturally rise with Testosterone, your Doc putting you on Arimidex for increase Progesterone seems amateurish, especially when you already have Clomid in your system binding to estrogenic receptor sites.

A lot of anti-aging clinics are now prescribing Progesterone and Pregnenolone Transdermal Creams to men to increase Neurotransmitter function, which then restores your Adrenal Gland output, leading to increase DHEA, Testosterone, Thyroid Hormones and lowered Cortisol.

Try to get switched to Exemestane from Arimidex.
Exemestane (commonly known as Aromasin) is the fucking bomb.
Exemestane is a Suicide Inhibitor that lowers SHBG, causes ZERO Estrogen Rebound upon cessation of use and doesn't crush your Estrogen levels like Arimidex/Letrozole (Aromatase Inhibitors) will.

Glad to have a knowledgable bro contribute.

"The only true negative side effects of Clomid are that it unfavorably effects some peoples Vision (floaters) and Emotions (anecdotal)."

My friend took it, got the same kind of T boost described above. According to him, the "No need to worry about Estrogenic side-effects while on Clomid." is a bit exagerrated - it binds to the receptor without the same strength as normal estrogen, which tends to block most estrogenic effects, but you're still getting SOMETHING binding to the receptor and having some action.

He said he felt like a woman on her period emotionally...why do that to yourself? He ended up just going on (fully legal) HRT and feels like the hulk without getting PMS. Why deal with the extra hassle of the Clomid route?

He might be estrogen sensitive or just took too high of a dose. My clomid is bundled with DIM and an estrogen inhibitor. I certainly don't feel like a women. Quite the contrary, I'm clocking in @1000-1100 consistently on 25mgs EOD and I feel great.

[ScrapperTL]

(11-10-2016 03:55 PM)rhodey Wrote:  

(11-09-2016 11:02 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(04-08-2016 12:58 PM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  

(04-07-2016 07:12 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

It's nice that you're feeling great now, but clomid tends to raise your estrogen, subsequently offsetting the benefits you get from higher T. Then within a couple months from now, you're back to where you started.

Clomid IS an Estrogen (completely benign) and it competes with other Estrogens at the receptor site, blocking their estrogenic actions.

This is what eventually can lead to increased Testosterone levels (although some research has shown Clomid to have some merit for powering up the LH/FSH system as well)

As a result this could "possibly" show up as increase Estrogen on a blood test, but it is not the real thing.

The only true negative side effects of Clomid are that it unfavorably effects some peoples Vision (floaters) and Emotions (anecdotal).

No need to worry about Estrogenic side-effects while on Clomid.

Also, Progesterone has been shown to naturally rise with Testosterone, your Doc putting you on Arimidex for increase Progesterone seems amateurish, especially when you already have Clomid in your system binding to estrogenic receptor sites.

A lot of anti-aging clinics are now prescribing Progesterone and Pregnenolone Transdermal Creams to men to increase Neurotransmitter function, which then restores your Adrenal Gland output, leading to increase DHEA, Testosterone, Thyroid Hormones and lowered Cortisol.

Try to get switched to Exemestane from Arimidex.
Exemestane (commonly known as Aromasin) is the fucking bomb.
Exemestane is a Suicide Inhibitor that lowers SHBG, causes ZERO Estrogen Rebound upon cessation of use and doesn't crush your Estrogen levels like Arimidex/Letrozole (Aromatase Inhibitors) will.

Glad to have a knowledgable bro contribute.

"The only true negative side effects of Clomid are that it unfavorably effects some peoples Vision (floaters) and Emotions (anecdotal)."

My friend took it, got the same kind of T boost described above. According to him, the "No need to worry about Estrogenic side-effects while on Clomid." is a bit exagerrated - it binds to the receptor without the same strength as normal estrogen, which tends to block most estrogenic effects, but you're still getting SOMETHING binding to the receptor and having some action.

He said he felt like a woman on her period emotionally...why do that to yourself? He ended up just going on (fully legal) HRT and feels like the hulk without getting PMS. Why deal with the extra hassle of the Clomid route?

He might be estrogen sensitive or just took too high of a dose. My clomid is bundled with DIM and an estrogen inhibitor. I certainly don't feel like a women. Quite the contrary, I'm clocking in @1000-1100 consistently on 25mgs EOD and I feel great.

This is the perfect example of what I was talking about.
Each and every person has a very different genetic makeup.
Blue Pill way of thinking is "We are all the same" and searching for a magic "One size fits all" pill.
Red Pill way is to test it, take notes on it and tweak/correct as needed.
If you get it right on the 1st try, than more power to you!

Another interesting example is our very own Mike Cernovich.
He has tried TRT, then decided to come off and stay off.
TRT may be exactly right for one person and not for another, just like Clomid therapy.

[rhodey]

No doubt. I'm actually on 12.5 mgs EOD not 25...

[S3K2]

Check the side effects of clomid...it's a stronger drug than you think. I would stick to IM or subQ injections of Test before trying clomid therapy. Matter a fact clomid is the exact reason I blast and cruise other than blast and PCT.

[rhodey]

(11-24-2016 11:04 AM)S3K2 Wrote:  

Check the side effects of clomid...it's a stronger drug than you think. I would stick to IM or subQ injections of Test before trying clomid therapy. Matter a fact clomid is the exact reason I blast and cruise other than blast and PCT.

Well for me no sides, but my dosages are low. My t levels are still over 1000. Definitely preferable to pinning myself. BTW I use Dr. Saya at Defy medical. They are great!

[PUA_Rachacha]

Checking in late to this thread.

I was taking 25mg q.d. of Clomid for almost a year. Testosterone shot up from 300 to 1200. Made good gains in the gym, and for a few months my libido was back. Slept really well, could concentrate better at work, more motivated to improve all aspects of myself.

By July of this year I noticed that my chest had little manboobs even though I'm not overweight. I was pretty bloated too. Got my estrogen pulled and it was 70. Went to my urologist who instructed me to take 12.5mg q.d. Testosterone went down to 600 and with it estrogen to 35. Strong libido mostly disappeared, otherwise no changes. Less emotional than before, but less motivated at work. Testosterone definitely affects your dopamine.

I developed an eye floater and went to an ophthalmologist in October. She reported that I was developing glaucoma given that my eye pressure was around 22, and one of my retina nerves looked odd. I told her that I was on clomid and she said that that had nothing to do with my glaucoma since she had looked into the issue for other patients in the past. Regardless I went off clomid immediately and scheduled an appt. with her in 30 days.

30-day follow-up indicated no change in ocular pressure. I took a visual-field test and passed easily. My ophthalmologist suspects that my eyes have always had high pressure and that it's just normal. I have a follow-up in a year, regardless I got off clomid for good.

I also had my semen analysed as my wife and I are trying to get pregnant. Sperm concentration was 128 million/ml (normal is >= 20), total ejaculate volume was 257 million sperm (normal is >= 40), and motile sperm count was 86 million/ml (normal is >= 10). So, I was making sperm at least 5x above normal level.

The bad part is that only 5% of my sperm were considered normal. Normal reference for morphology is >= 14%. Regardless, my doctor said I should easily be able to get my wife pregnant with that much sperm (he has never seen a level as high as mine). Let's just say that I think my doctor is right

Overall I would rank clomid a C+ for TRT, and an A- for fertility. Your estrogen shoots up way too quickly and is hard to control. I felt good for about four out of the 12 months I took it. I will now look into test cyp plus hcg to maintain more normal levels. Unfortunately my doctor will only give me test pellets, so if I can convince him to give me hcg with that, then I'll try that first. Otherwise it's test cyp through an HRT clinic.

And regarding long-term safety: here's a long-term study performed at Memorial Sloan Kettering. No adverse side effects, T remained above baseline for patients going out three years when they ended the trial. Bone density improved.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22458540

[rhodey]

(11-28-2016 12:56 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  

Checking in late to this thread.

I was taking 25mg q.d. of Clomid for almost a year. Testosterone shot up from 300 to 1200. Made good gains in the gym, and for a few months my libido was back. Slept really well, could concentrate better at work, more motivated to improve all aspects of myself.

By July of this year I noticed that my chest had little manboobs even though I'm not overweight. I was pretty bloated too. Got my estrogen pulled and it was 70. Went to my urologist who instructed me to take 12.5mg q.d. Testosterone went down to 600 and with it estrogen to 35. Strong libido mostly disappeared, otherwise no changes. Less emotional than before, but less motivated at work. Testosterone definitely affects your dopamine.

I developed an eye floater and went to an ophthalmologist in October. She reported that I was developing glaucoma given that my eye pressure was around 22, and one of my retina nerves looked odd. I told her that I was on clomid and she said that that had nothing to do with my glaucoma since she had looked into the issue for other patients in the past. Regardless I went off clomid immediately and scheduled an appt. with her in 30 days.

30-day follow-up indicated no change in ocular pressure. I took a visual-field test and passed easily. My ophthalmologist suspects that my eyes have always had high pressure and that it's just normal. I have a follow-up in a year, regardless I got off clomid for good.

I also had my semen analysed as my wife and I are trying to get pregnant. Sperm concentration was 128 million/ml (normal is >= 20), total ejaculate volume was 257 million sperm (normal is >= 40), and motile sperm count was 86 million/ml (normal is >= 10). So, I was making sperm at least 5x above normal level.

The bad part is that only 5% of my sperm were considered normal. Normal reference for morphology is >= 14%. Regardless, my doctor said I should easily be able to get my wife pregnant with that much sperm (he has never seen a level as high as mine). Let's just say that I think my doctor is right

Overall I would rank clomid a C+ for TRT, and an A- for fertility. Your estrogen shoots up way too quickly and is hard to control. I felt good for about four out of the 12 months I took it. I will now look into test cyp plus hcg to maintain more normal levels. Unfortunately my doctor will only give me test pellets, so if I can convince him to give me hcg with that, then I'll try that first. Otherwise it's test cyp through an HRT clinic.

And regarding long-term safety: here's a long-term study performed at Memorial Sloan Kettering. No adverse side effects, T remained above baseline for patients going out three years when they ended the trial. Bone density improved.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22458540

Sorry about your issues. Some people are just more estrogen sensitive than others. Were your clomid tablets mixed with DIM and Aromisin to control the estrogen spikes.?

[PUA_Rachacha]

(11-28-2016 05:56 PM)rhodey Wrote:  

Sorry about your issues. Some people are just more estrogen sensitive than others. Were your clomid tablets mixed with DIM and Aromisin to control the estrogen spikes.?

No, my doctor wouldn't prescribe an AI, and DIM doesn't do shit as far as I gather.

[Uzisuicide]

I'm about to run Clomid and HCG tomorrow because of zero sperm count do to prolonged testosterone usage. I would take Clomid in the past after a steroid cycle but I truly hate the stuff because it turns me into a major league asshole. Clomid is famous for creating mood swings. Have any of you guys had problems with that while on it? I couldn't wait to come off of the stuff. It being an estrogen really opened my eyes to why women are so fucked up.

Uzi

[ScrapperTL]

(12-01-2016 03:41 PM)Uzisuicide Wrote:  

I'm about to run Clomid and HCG tomorrow because of zero sperm count do to prolonged testosterone usage. I would take Clomid in the past after a steroid cycle but I truly hate the stuff because it turns me into a major league asshole. Clomid is famous for creating mood swings. Have any of you guys had problems with that while on it? I couldn't wait to come off of the stuff. It being an estrogen really opened my eyes to why women are so fucked up.

Uzi

Clomid does not have any negative impact on my mood at all.
The possible reason is that I always combine it with Exemestane.

Letrozole on the other hand always puts me in a shitty lethargic mood, I refuse to touch that stuff.

My general rule of thumb:
Aromatase Inhibitor: shitty lethargic mood
Suicide Inhibitor: Cocky, Confident, Arrogant mood
Clomid/Nolvadex: Either neutral or Feminine mood depending on Genetics and Dose

Suicide Inhibitor counteracts the Femininity you will experience from Clomid/Nolvadex

Important note: Clomid and Nolvadex simply occupy the Estrogen Receptor, not allowing E2 to exert its dominant Feminine action on your body.

Yes you may experience some mental side effects (feminine thought patterns and/or mood swings) as a result.
This is actually a lot better than what unchecked E2 can do to your body.

Important note #2: Suicide Inhibitors do not cause Estrogen Rebound and neither do Clomid/Nolvadex.
Aromatase Inhibitors will cause Estrogen Rebound.

If you are going to use an AI, do so only on cycle and not during post cycle but I think SI is still better for this.
During post cycle you strictly want to occupy the estrogen receptor as your first line of defense and if you have the extra scratch throw a SI in the mix.

If you are on TRT then I still think SI is better, unfortunately many Doctors will probably prescribe you a cheap and readily available AI.

SI alone is actually great for general off-cycle year round usage.
There aren't really any bad side effects and a massive amount of health benefits.

[ScrapperTL]

For the ultimate breakdown of why Suicide Inhibitors kick so much ass, please read this: http://www.allthingsmale.com/community/t...sin.21337/

The poster named "pmgamer18" goes into incredibly deep detail.
Also, the main ingredient in RED PCT that Victor Pride and GoodLookingLoser have teamed up to sell is Androst 3, 5-diene-7, 17-dione AKA Arimistane (not to be confused with Arimidex which is an AI)

Arimistane is an OTC Suicide Inhibitor, less effective than Exemestane/Aromasin but still - it is OTC !!!

So if you are used to taking 6mg to 12.5mg Exemestane/Aromasin EOD, you may need 50mg+ Arimistane ED for an equivalent effect.

[SBSSonny]

Clomid can work. But it is not optimal. Injecting pharm grade testosterone under the guidance of a doctor is optimal.

[PUA_Rachacha]

(12-01-2016 03:41 PM)Uzisuicide Wrote:  

I'm about to run Clomid and HCG tomorrow because of zero sperm count do to prolonged testosterone usage. I would take Clomid in the past after a steroid cycle but I truly hate the stuff because it turns me into a major league asshole. Clomid is famous for creating mood swings. Have any of you guys had problems with that while on it? I couldn't wait to come off of the stuff. It being an estrogen really opened my eyes to why women are so fucked up.

Uzi

Whose protocol are you following? I would recommend following what the guys at r/steroids recommend for PCT.

[rhodey]

If it works for you it is optimal. Same benefits as injecting with none of the negatives.

[Uzisuicide]

(12-08-2016 12:54 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  

Whose protocol are you following? I would recommend following what the guys at r/steroids recommend for PCT.

Thanks for the link. There are so many protocols. I used to load up on Clomid with high doses 100mg daily, two weeks after the last injection of a Test Enanthate or Cipionate. I'd also run Nolvadex which is standard at 20mg daily. HCG is more of a pain in the ass to run because you have to mix it and it's hard to measure out 1000IU doses with anything other than insulin pins, sub-q which I don't do. I am so used to intra-muscular injections.

I stayed on cycle too long, period. It wasn't high doses of test and wasn't consistent. I had gaps in between where I couldn't get my cycle off the ground be it because of injury or what have you. Generally I was at 500mg/wk Test with 400mg Nandrolone or Equipoise.

I've been off cycle for about 6 months and skimped on PCT. Now I'm trying to have a baby and have zero sperm count. This is due to the steroid cycles. I have 2 kids already. The second after some heavy 1000mg test cycles which was overkill and I don't recommend to anyone.

I'm on 50mg Clomid daily and will stay on for 30 days. Then will follow up with 5000iu HCG ant try to split it up over a week. I have been somewhat of a dick at times to my GF when she starts being a pain in the ass. I usually allow my girl to believe certain things but my tolerance for stupid is at a low because of the Clomid.

Thanks again for the input PUA R.

Uzi