[Giovonny]

(02-06-2016 11:53 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

No offense taken whatsoever.

Thanks for understanding that I wasn't attacking you on a personal level. I can tell you are a smart guy. A smart guy who is adjusting to the red pill.

I am fascinated with your questions, I felt compelled to answer in depth -- So, here are some more detailed answers:

(02-06-2016 11:53 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

the current sexual climate and educational system..

That was very interesting to read.

In response, what I want to say is..

We live in a capitalist society.

Our educational system is designed to produce consumers. Our educational system does not care about how feminine or wholesome girls are.

It's all about money, power, and control.

Capitalism doesn't care about traditional gender roles.

I know this can be a hard reality to accept.

--

Also, in regards to our sexual climate..

Our sexual climate is a reflection of our society. We want results now, we want validation now, we want stimulation now, we want excitement/entertainment now.

We are bombarded with sexual images. Being a slut is practically encouraged.

Birth control, abortion, feminism, social media, lack of family structure, lack of religion, etc.

Our society gives women the freedom to be sluts.

Again, I know this can be a hard reality to accept.

(02-06-2016 11:53 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

Sex for a woman went from being a key component of pair-bonding and powerful emotional connection to just another source of quick stimulation/validation

I believe that sex is still a key component of pair bonding for women.

And, I believe that women have always had sex just for fun. It's nothing new..

Ancient Greeks and Romans, as well as many other ancient cultures, have a vast sexual history including well documented orgies, sex festivals, sex gods, etc.

1000 years ago, women were getting clubbed in the head and dragged back into caves.

500 years ago women were getting kidnapped into slavery/marriage.

So, its not like sex has always been this romantic, emotionally tender act that only recently became perverted.

The history of human sex has often been barbaric and violent.

The current sexual climate is simply a reflection of modern life. Quick validation, minimal commitment, pro-feminist, etc.

(02-06-2016 11:53 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on this Gio;

let's say you've reached a point in life where you're ready to start your family. What are you looking for when you're vetting a potential mother of your children?

I don't want a wife and kids but if I did, I would look for a woman with:

-good parents
-good upbringing
-youth
-good genetics
-submissive/traditional culture

(02-06-2016 11:53 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

Does the fact that she's been fucked repeatedly in every orifice, tied up, choked, and had her face glazed by countless dudes before ever meeting you bother you?

Yes, that might bother me.

That's why I would look for a young, sexually inexperienced girl who was raised in a traditional culture.

(02-06-2016 11:53 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

Is it just not a big deal anymore? Was it ever a big deal?

The deal is only as big as you want to make it.

If you marry a whore who is a shitty mother, it can become a big deal.

If you marry a good girl from a good family, its probably less of a big deal.

(02-06-2016 11:53 PM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that girls doing this casually, indiscriminately, and with several to dozens of partners is not only socially accepted but actively encouraged and that there are hordes of men anxiously waiting to wife these girls up.

Yeah, that is fascinating isn't it.

The whore of the alpha becomes the wife of the beta.

Again, a hard reality to accept.

--

(02-01-2016 08:52 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

she's been fucked repeatedly in every orifice, tied up, choked, and had her face glazed by countless dudes

(02-11-2016 08:58 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

a woman has been throatfucked and glazed by multiple guys

(02-12-2016 12:17 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

a woman who has gagged on multiple cocks and been fucked in the ass repeatedly.

(02-01-2016 08:52 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

This would obviously apply to 90+ percent of sexually attractive college graduates in the Western world.

How are you coming up with that figure of 90%?

I have been with dozens of young, college girls and honestly, most of them were a lot more sexually conservative than you might think..

Many of them could barely give a good blowjob because they were so inexperienced. Most of them had very little experience with anal. Most have never been tied up. More than half would not let me cum on the face.

I think that figure of 90% is highly exaggerated.

How much porn are you watching?

Because, watching porn + taking the red pill can be a dangerous combination.

You start to think that all women are just like the porn stars.

When in reality, most women are only porn stars for a handful of guys, not for "countless dudes".

These are just my thoughts off the top of my head. I could be wrong. These are just my opinions and perspectives.

[XXL]

(02-12-2016 12:17 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 09:56 AM)XXL Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 08:58 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 08:51 AM)XXL Wrote:  

The common trait about guys like us is that we're basically cool with girls being girls. That's what it really all comes down to.

While guys expect women to be innocent angels and shame them, we know their naughty side and we're fine with that. Non judgmental attitude is key factor in this whole secret society tribe. It applies mainly to sexuality but there is much more to it.

Guys put so much pressure on women in various way. They expect women to be well put together, to be nice, to always look great, etc etc. It feels horrible for women to walk on eggshells and be under constant stress at all times to act right and be miss perfect. Some of those men do it unconsciously some do it on purpose as they think it's proper man-woman dynamic. Then they wonder why they get left out and get bitter watching guys like us getting lots of attention by doing nothing so to speak. They don't see that this "nothing" that separates us from them is actually a lot [a lot of stupid shit that we don't say or do that can slow things down significantly].

Do you have the same attitude when it comes to your wife and the mother of your kids? If a woman has been throatfucked and glazed by multiple guys before ever meeting you, does that carry any weight as far your investment in her? Genuine question.

Same attitude toward all women.

There are much more important things that can put me off in a woman [who I consider as my wife/mother of my children] than some orgy she had in high school. Who am I to judge, I'm a bigger slut than she has ever been.

That's what I often say to girls to let them know I'm the guy they can open up to, literally this.. "it's just adventures, it's fine, no big deal to me, I was much bigger slut than all of your combined.. so who am I to judge anyone?"

That's obviously a great mindset to have and I applaud you for it but I'm just not wired that way I guess. I'm all for having that attitude towards pump and dumps and mini LTRs but you couldn't pay me to wife up, live with, and have kids with a woman who has gagged on multiple cocks and been fucked in the ass repeatedly. It's getting more and more unrealistic by the day but in my world, the mother of my kids has to be my slut exclusively.

Then you would have to find a young family oriented girl from nowhere and wife her up before she leaves to the big city and starts rebellious stage of her life.

[Mr. Pink]

(02-12-2016 06:09 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

snip

Great post, appreciate you sharing your thoughts. We're definitely in complete agreement as far as what qualities to look for in an LTR, societal slut encouragement, and the primary motivation of the "system" being creating consumers.

No doubt that women have always had sex just for fun, it was just kept under wraps. Their behavior was obviously a lot more restrained not because of any innate differences in the women themselves but because of the differences in society's perception of promiscuous behavior in women. Went from stigmatized to applauded pretty damn quick. I wouldn't give it a second thought if the masses of men actually responded to these changes logically by withholding their commitment from women that don't deserve it but beta thirst knows no bounds. The way you laid it out though made me realize that as long as I don't make that mistake in my own life there really is no reason to continue letting it bother me. I actually feel a little silly giving these first-world problems that much thought considering it's the best time in all of history to be alive for a solid dude with game and his shit together.

Seeing those sex quotes grouped together gave me a good laugh, I come off as obsessed. I'm actually not a big porn guy, I can count the number of times I've beat it to porn on one hand since I left the States about a year ago. I'm just going by my own personal experiences, accounts from friends, and of course from tons of reading on this side of the internet. I was on the football team back in high school and played poker regularly with some pretty successful, alpha dudes for a few years so seeing things through that lens shaped my views and gave me that 90% number. You think the number of attractive college graduates with multiple partners is less than 90%? What would your guess be? Obviously the choking part was an exaggeration but rough sex seems to be the standard and anal is getting pretty damn common. Even the chicks out here in Asia are eating this 50 Shades craze up. I'm legitimately jealous if you're finding that many college girls that haven't been turned out yet.

[Ringo]

I can't contribute much to this thread as I'm still a game novice. But the whole secret society thing made me realize something for the very first time after years of gaming. There's one thing that is a common thread amongst most if not all of my failures with chicks: everyone tells me I am (or most importantly look) judgemental all the time. I consider myself a very positive guy, but I'm naturally quiet and tend to watch people more than talk. So even if I'm not "judging" them, I reckon I look like I am.

It's seems so obvious now, but given how much and how long it has been hindering it's baffling how I didn't pick up on it before.

Having said that, this is one of the most fascinating, informative and mind boggling threads I've seen in my years in the forum. I'm looking forward for more of your insights.

(02-12-2016 06:09 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

[...]
Watching porn + taking the red pill can be a dangerous combination.

You start to think that all women are just like the porn stars.

When in reality, most women are only porn stars for a handful of guys, not for "countless dudes".

Quoted for truth.

[blck]

(02-12-2016 04:03 AM)262 Wrote:  

@blck:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_R-WhB9g9eYk/TJ...0/teachman

Delete

[jbird669]

(02-12-2016 06:09 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

We live in a capitalist society.

You provided great insight and advice in your response, save for this. We here in the US have corporatism, not capitalism. We haven't had capitalism in some time.

[Bear Hands]

(02-12-2016 07:57 AM)Ringo Wrote:  

I can't contribute much to this thread as I'm still a game novice. But the whole secret society thing made me realize something for the very first time after years of gaming. There's one thing that is a common thread amongst most if not all of my failures with chicks: everyone tells me I am (or most importantly look) judgemental all the time. I consider myself a very positive guy, but I'm naturally quiet and tend to watch people more than talk. So even if I'm not "judging" them, I reckon I look like I am.

I'm a novice too and had the same problem. My solution was just to work on my expressiveness when making eye contact. Once I'm aware of the eye contact, I try to slip a mischievous smile in real quickly, like I just let slip that I thought about the girl gagging on my dick and had to suppress it, then I slide it subtley into a faint enough smile to let my dimples show. I'm aiming for working with her preconceived notion that I'm judging by making her think I judged her favorably I suppose.

[WestIndianArchie]

Do I step back into my own thread to attempt to course correct, or do I realize that "my" thread is a lie that I tell myself?

That everything I've written, or rather the ideas that it generates from others really should just go the way that they want.

Can you ever own an idea? An interpretation?

WIA

[yeppels]

(02-12-2016 11:12 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Do I step back into my own thread to attempt to course correct, or do I realize that "my" thread is a lie that I tell myself?

That everything I've written, or rather the ideas that it generates from others really should just go the way that they want.

Can you ever own an idea? An interpretation?

WIA

Were you trying to push an agenda? If so course correct. Were you trying to stir up meaningful discussion? You've done this already.

I think a sign of a good idea is that it leads to the discussion of other similar or even tangential ideas.

Once you share an idea with others, the idea is no longer yours and belongs to the people.

[WestIndianArchie]

The agenda, the point is in the first post.

I think some of the comments are the exact opposite of what I was trying to get across.

This is way to Asia, and then folks start marching South.

Eh,

WIA

[DVY]

I dont think its a way to Asia. Its a global issue.

I've gained access to so much because ppl like me as a person, my potential to make them laugh (guys) or feel sexy (girls), and the fact that I need basically zero from them. This is true against all socioeoconomic backgrounds and races.

The power dynamic is in check.

Its more a reflection of human nature to want to have stress-free lives. Judging and criticism makes people close up. Care-free fun is relaxed and free-flowing.

Robert Greene had this apt quote "Think what you want, but behave like others". Thats a succint way of going about life.

[Apollo21]

It helps to have a bit of perspective on how "Secret Society" got started...

Tyler Durden is the founder of RSD who sells coaching and training dvds on game.
He is a very very good marketer...so when you read something like "Secret Society"
it's actually a brilliant marketing tactic that goes something like this...

1. There's a secret society that exists where the top 2%
get 95% of the hottest women...while everyone else
takes whatever scraps they can get.

2. There are rules for this secret society that you must learn
and you won't know them until you've either been taught them
or you already are a card carrying member.

3. Even if you do have a girlfriend, chances are you are simply
her beta boyfriend while she's sleeping with society members every
chance she gets.

4. If you want to learn the rules and become a member of this secret society
I can teach you so that you too can walk past the velvet rope and have
women DTF even while they have boyfriends at home...

It's a great sales pitch. And it's perfect for guys who have absolutely have
no idea how to talk to women...and willing to drop $6000-$15,000 on coaching.

7 billion people on the planet...there is no secret society...just guys
who discover their niche and constantly create opportunities to meet women.

[spygoat]

How much porn are you watching?

Because, watching porn + taking the red pill can be a dangerous combination.

You start to think that all women are just like the porn stars.

When in reality, most women are only porn stars for a handful of guys, not for "countless dudes".

These are just my thoughts off the top of my head. I could be wrong. These are just my opinions and perspectives.
[/quote]

This ^^^^ - If you take a girl who loves to be choked and give her to the boys on the forum - she will get choked or anal or whatever her pleasure is, because we will perceive that.

If you give her to the rest of the beta population - there is high likelihood this will not happen. Simply because of their societal programming.

So while a girl may act like a porn star with you --- usually I think that is them just following your lead and acting on their inner desires - which you do not judge them for.

[blck]

Since I started reading RVF I've been able to understand what happened to me before getting in the Community, I want to see this thread going so I'll share my experience:

Quote:

Is the Ultimate player a guy who is approaching like 1)target locked 2)open 3)try to fuck
OR
A dude who has women throwing pussy at him everywhere he goes...

The wedding ring, I had a glimpse in the SS when I got one, innuendos started coming at me without any misunderstanding possible, personnal questions and when you don't answer they tease stronger...
You surender to one then an other come your way like they told each other, like it's too easy...
The odor/smell, I don't know if it's the testosterone or the pussy juice but women can snif it on you, smiling at you in the subway letting you know they know you just fucked...
My woman at the time became paranoid, I used to laugh about wife asking husband to smell their dick, now not so much...

So, Did some of you witness complete changing of a woman behaviour since you got some item or life change ?

[Stun]

(02-11-2016 06:53 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

Without being redundant from what other people have posted, something I've seen and see is when I'm walking in an area with a lot of foot traffic, with couples strolling or seated at cafes... if you have good body language and a good "look", you will get eye contact / IOI's from women who are with their partner, with him not knowing.

Story of my life up until early-mid 30s, and the same ever since as long as dress and style is on point.

[Samseau]

(02-12-2016 10:33 AM)jbird669 Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 06:09 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

We live in a capitalist society.

You provided great insight and advice in your response, save for this. We here in the US have corporatism, not capitalism. We haven't had capitalism in some time.

Yes. The reason capitalism makes no sense as the culprit is because America (and Europe) was far more capitalist in the 19th century, yet most men could expect to marry a virgin in those days.

If anything, capitalism reduces women to commodities as marriage partners, which makes their virginity more valuable and therefore keeps women chaste.

In today's corporatist world, the world is fueled on debt that cannot be repaid, which means no one lives for the future but instead the present. Hence women are sluts because the subconscious expectation of today's world is to, "Enjoy the decline," - there is no future worth saving for.

[Belgrano]

(02-12-2016 06:09 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

You start to think that all women are just like the porn stars.

When in reality, most women are only porn stars for a handful of guys, not for "countless dudes".

Let's be realistic here, it's not even that.
Most women are not like pornstars at all, and never will be.
The vast majority of them, and men too, is just bad at sex.

It's not an art to them, not that important, not deserving of too much thought. On the same scale as eating and drinking. It doesn't need to be haute cuisine to be enjoyable, in fact a lot of people are perfectly content with stuffing themselves with questionable fast food and be done with it. Why would sex be any different?

I agree with Gio and think there's a bias here.
The men on this forum and many of the women we hook up with and hear stories about belong already to the top 5% globally when it comes to sexual activity. People for whom sex is almost like a hobby, who enjoy it, or are even obsessed with it, devote a huge part of their time to pursuing it, and often strive to improve their skills. Compared to most other humans in this world, we are deviants. Our sex lives are not representative at all and very far removed from the average human experience.

There's hundreds of millions of girls out there that in terms of sexuality are honest, naive Goody Two-Shoes to pick from for a man, should he desire something like that. They are far more abundant than the sluts who can only thrive under very special circumstances and selected cultural environments, and even then are a minority. Just leave the urban Western bubble and you'll see. There's really no need to worry.

[Giovonny]

A few more before I go to work..

*****

(02-08-2016 05:17 AM)blck Wrote:  

Is the "Secret Society" only about sex

For me, it's not even really about sex.

It's about the quality of my life + my happiness.

I was not happy as a beta male.

I wanted more out of life. I wanted fun, excitement, passion.

I wanted the ability to date pretty, young girls.

Sex is a small prize. The greater prize is the confidence and peace of mind that comes from knowing that I worked hard to achieve something that few men ever will.

The thrill of sex quickly evaporates. The satisfaction, pride, passion, and esteem last much longer.

(02-08-2016 06:11 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  

I think the really interesting skill is learning how to communicate high-status.

Yes, the sub-communication, body language, facial expressions, clothes, shoes, conversational skills, tone, vibe, word choice, language skills, etc.

All of these things communicate status.

It can be very subtle.

I am low status financially.

But, when it comes to communicating with girls and making them feel comfortable. I am high status. They can see and feel this through the way I interact with them.

Their brain might care about how much money I have, but, their pussy only cares how I make them feel.

(02-03-2016 06:15 PM)Felix88 Wrote:  

The west sounds like a fucked up place,

The west has problems.

But, the west also has opportunity!

The average man is free to improve his life. His intelligence and hard work can be rewarded.

For the average man, is the East really any better?

- Japan is the most sexless society

- China has a huge shortage of women.

- India is the most sexually repressed culture on earth

- Russia offers very little upward mobility for the average man.

The average man might be better off in the United States where he has a wide variety of women + social and economic freedom.

I don't know?

Where do many of the educated people from those nations want to come?

The United States of America.

We have problems -- But, we also have benefits, freedoms, and opportunities for smart, hard working people.

*****

Later, I will answer these questions..

(02-08-2016 08:09 PM)Taco Illusionist Wrote:  

as a newbie how would I transition this mindset into my practical interactions with women?

(02-10-2016 01:18 PM)yeppels Wrote:  

I have a question to you guys about good vibes. What kind of mindset are you in when you put off good vibes?

(02-12-2016 07:21 AM)Mr. Pink Wrote:  

You think the number of attractive college graduates with multiple partners is less than 90%? What would your guess be?

*****

And, I will address this excellent and fascinating point:

(02-13-2016 11:51 AM)Celtic_Austrian Wrote:  

There's hundreds of millions of girls out there that in terms of sexuality are honest, naive Goody Two-Shoes to pick from for a man, should he desire something like that. They are far more abundant than the sluts who can only thrive under very special circumstances and selected cultural environments, and even then are a minority. Just leave the urban Western bubble and you'll see. There's really no need to worry.

And, I will explain why I feel that having a wife and kids is nothing "special", "spiritual", or "supernatural".

And, I will explain why I feel that girls don't owe us their virginity. Getting them as virgins is nice but it is not something that is in any way owed to us by any higher power or moral privilege.

[Felix88]

Quote:

For the average man, is the East really any better?

- Japan is the most sexless society

I don't know where people get this idea from, the media? I can't speak for other countries but I've lived in Japan, and they are far from sexless, they're just not having sex with their spouses.

[Travesty]

Am I the only one that thinks the advice worth taking for serious relationships with women would be men with 20 year+ successful marriages with no cheating and multiple well-raised kids with a spark still there?

A lot of this is like watching Nickelodeon. Like a dentist talking about heart surgery.

[Apollo21]

Just because you've been married 20 years doesn't mean you have the best relationship.

Also you can't compare a 2 year relationship with a 20 year relationship...it's at
a different stage...although happy well maintained couples do share similar traits...
empathy, patience, shared values, partnership...take any of those out and you're more likely
to have a short-term relationship...

[DonnyGately]

(02-13-2016 11:00 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 10:33 AM)jbird669 Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 06:09 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

We live in a capitalist society.

You provided great insight and advice in your response, save for this. We here in the US have corporatism, not capitalism. We haven't had capitalism in some time.

In today's corporatist world, the world is fueled on debt that cannot be repaid, which means no one lives for the future but instead the present.

Hence women are sluts because the subconscious expectation of today's world is to, "Enjoy the decline," - there is no future worth saving for.

I know people like to say & maybe believe this -but it's completely wrong.

Household Net Worth as of Q3 was $85 Trillion dollars. So, every debt could be paid off anytime we want. [It was still $56Tn at the 2008 low]. Net out the 37% held by the top 1%, and you still have $54 Trillion in Net worth.

Debt held by the public is only ~ 15% of that figure. And we already netted out mortgages, CC debt, etc. If we paid off every Federal loan we'd still have $40 Trillion left over in financial assets.
Sourced: Fed FoF report, Qtly, Dec 2015. federalreserve.gov

Oh, but what about me, the college grad? I'm not the whole country here, pal. I got loans to pay!

About 2/3s of college students have any debt. Just undergrad debt averages $23k for only those with loans. [It's 29-30k for all student loans]

65% of those with $50k+ in debt are grad students. Doctors and lawyers alone are 13% of that 65. MBAs are another big chunk.

25% of those went to 'for-profit' colleges but only 9% got a degree - I got no sympathy for those dropouts.

And 1/3 of people graduated with no debt.

source: NYTimes, USNews.

I graduated with both undergrad and grad debt. I stopped paying while in school. It took me 8 years of work to pay them all off. Now I'm debt free and have been for many years.


The morons who got 3 degrees in poetry and can't pay back Columbia are not indicative of a larger problem in capitalism.

Your net worth's biggest factor is how old you are. People just out of school have 10% of the net worth of 45-54 yr olds. Working longer and saving means older people will always be richer than younger people.

[DonnyGately]

(02-13-2016 11:51 AM)Belgrano Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 06:09 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

You start to think that all women are just like the porn stars.

When in reality, most women are only porn stars for a handful of guys, not for "countless dudes".

Let's be realistic here, it's not even that.
Most women are not like pornstars at all, and never will be.
The vast majority of them, and men too, is just bad at sex.
...

There's hundreds of millions of girls out there that in terms of sexuality are honest, naive Goody Two-Shoes to pick from for a man, should he desire something like that. They are far more abundant than the sluts who can only thrive under very special circumstances and selected cultural environments, and even then are a minority.

I agree with your points, mostly.

But, there is an intersection in the Venn diagram of 'good 2-shoes' and 'can fuck like a porn star.' Plenty of girls have only 1-2 partners in college but they still fucked in every possible way in 4 years. Good girls can still deepthroat, in other words -- and some sluts still cannot.

Or girls that have had only [bad] sex with one guy, but still want to try freaky things with you, a guy that doesn't judge.

My humble experience is that every girl likes being choked, maybe just very soft at the beginning, but almost none of them have tried it before me.

[Samseau]

(02-15-2016 07:00 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  

(02-13-2016 11:00 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 10:33 AM)jbird669 Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 06:09 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

We live in a capitalist society.

You provided great insight and advice in your response, save for this. We here in the US have corporatism, not capitalism. We haven't had capitalism in some time.

In today's corporatist world, the world is fueled on debt that cannot be repaid, which means no one lives for the future but instead the present.

Hence women are sluts because the subconscious expectation of today's world is to, "Enjoy the decline," - there is no future worth saving for.

I know people like to say & maybe believe this -but it's completely wrong.

Household Net Worth as of Q3 was $85 Trillion dollars. So, every debt could be paid off anytime we want. [It was still $56Tn at the 2008 low]. Net out the 37% held by the top 1%, and you still have $54 Trillion in Net worth.

Debt held by the public is only ~ 15% of that figure. And we already netted out mortgages, CC debt, etc. If we paid off every Federal loan we'd still have $40 Trillion left over in financial assets.
Sourced: Fed FoF report, Qtly, Dec 2015. federalreserve.gov

Oh, but what about me, the college grad? I'm not the whole country here, pal. I got loans to pay!

About 2/3s of college students have any debt. Just undergrad debt averages $23k for only those with loans. [It's 29-30k for all student loans]

65% of those with $50k+ in debt are grad students. Doctors and lawyers alone are 13% of that 65. MBAs are another big chunk.

25% of those went to 'for-profit' colleges but only 9% got a degree - I got no sympathy for those dropouts.

And 1/3 of people graduated with no debt.

source: NYTimes, USNews.

I graduated with both undergrad and grad debt. I stopped paying while in school. It took me 8 years of work to pay them all off. Now I'm debt free and have been for many years.


The morons who got 3 degrees in poetry and can't pay back Columbia are not indicative of a larger problem in capitalism.

Your net worth's biggest factor is how old you are. People just out of school have 10% of the net worth of 45-54 yr olds. Working longer and saving means older people will always be richer than younger people.

Sorry, but the national debt is just the tip of the iceberg. Let us not forget unfunded liabilities, i.e. social security and pensions. Combined with student loans, credit card debts, and mortgages, the debt is absolutely overwhelming.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(02-16-2016 10:56 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-15-2016 07:00 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  

(02-13-2016 11:00 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 10:33 AM)jbird669 Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 06:09 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

We live in a capitalist society.

You provided great insight and advice in your response, save for this. We here in the US have corporatism, not capitalism. We haven't had capitalism in some time.

In today's corporatist world, the world is fueled on debt that cannot be repaid, which means no one lives for the future but instead the present.

Hence women are sluts because the subconscious expectation of today's world is to, "Enjoy the decline," - there is no future worth saving for.

I know people like to say & maybe believe this -but it's completely wrong.

Household Net Worth as of Q3 was $85 Trillion dollars. So, every debt could be paid off anytime we want. [It was still $56Tn at the 2008 low]. Net out the 37% held by the top 1%, and you still have $54 Trillion in Net worth.

Debt held by the public is only ~ 15% of that figure. And we already netted out mortgages, CC debt, etc. If we paid off every Federal loan we'd still have $40 Trillion left over in financial assets.
Sourced: Fed FoF report, Qtly, Dec 2015. federalreserve.gov

Oh, but what about me, the college grad? I'm not the whole country here, pal. I got loans to pay!

About 2/3s of college students have any debt. Just undergrad debt averages $23k for only those with loans. [It's 29-30k for all student loans]

65% of those with $50k+ in debt are grad students. Doctors and lawyers alone are 13% of that 65. MBAs are another big chunk.

25% of those went to 'for-profit' colleges but only 9% got a degree - I got no sympathy for those dropouts.

And 1/3 of people graduated with no debt.

source: NYTimes, USNews.

I graduated with both undergrad and grad debt. I stopped paying while in school. It took me 8 years of work to pay them all off. Now I'm debt free and have been for many years.


The morons who got 3 degrees in poetry and can't pay back Columbia are not indicative of a larger problem in capitalism.

Your net worth's biggest factor is how old you are. People just out of school have 10% of the net worth of 45-54 yr olds. Working longer and saving means older people will always be richer than younger people.

Sorry, but the national debt is just the tip of the iceberg. Let us not forget unfunded liabilities, i.e. social security and pensions. Combined with student loans, credit card debts, and mortgages, the debt is absolutely overwhelming.

Not to mention the entire concept of the Federal Reserve.