[samsamsam]

Quote:

A gun-store owner and his son were killed in a shootout with two customers after an argument over a $25 firearm repair fee, police told NBC station WDSU.

The patrons were also taken to hospital with serious injuries following Saturday's incident at the store near Picayune, Mississippi, which is 130 miles south of Jackson.

The customers, who are also a father and son, had visited the store to collect a firearm that had been dropped off for repair. They became irate after being told it was not ready and there would be a $25 service charge, the Pearl River County Sheriff's Office told WDSU.

The argument descended into a shootout, resulting in the owner and his son dying from "multiple gunshot wounds" and the customers being transferred to intensive care, Sun Herald newspaper reported.

The case is still being investigated and no charges have been filed, the newspaper reported Sunday. NBC News was not able to reach the Pearl River County Sheriff's Office for an update early Monday.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/miss...s-n503601?

While I see the need for guns, I am still in favor of some regulation. There's gotta be a way of reducing the number of hard headed idiots in the world.

$25 Dollars. They should have just called the hospital and police. "We are going to shoot people over $25, it will probably cost society a lot more than that, could you pay for it?"

Am I am an asshole for not wanting the other guys to live, if they were the ones who initiated it? I mean I imagine the advantage in a shoot out goes to the ones who shoot first. But if that were the case then there should have been no return fire (if they were good shots). So maybe the gun store owner initiated it?

Talk about bad customer service.

[Aurini]

[quote='samsamsam' pid='1201875' dateline='1453751132']

Quote:

While I see the need for guns, I am still in favor of some regulation. There's gotta be a way of reducing the number of hard headed idiots in the world.

Who? Whom?

[iop890]

(01-25-2016 02:45 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

There's gotta be a way of reducing the number of hard headed idiots in the world.

Isn't that what just happened?

[philosophical_recovery]

I think I'm going to go home and Scrooge McDuck myself into thousands of rounds of various calibers in honor of this thread. What could go wrong?



Ban all the things. Sensibly.

[Saweeep]

Things like this only happen in America. It's like something out of a Western.

Fascinating country (and my favourite).

[samsamsam]

(01-25-2016 02:52 PM)iop890 Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 02:45 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

There's gotta be a way of reducing the number of hard headed idiots in the world.

Isn't that what just happened?

Yes, you are correct sir.

[Aurini]

(01-25-2016 03:05 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Things like this only happen in America. It's like something out of a Western.

Fascinating country (and my favourite).

Hardly; it only gets reported about in America. Canada has nearly as many guns per capita as the US, an insane bevy of incomprehensible regulations that allow the RCMP to break into peoples homes and seize their guns, and yet the violent crime and shooing rates are roughly the same as any area in the United States with a similar ethnic makeup.

In a country of 300 million people, 4 of them get into an argument where there were at least 2 idiots, and bullets are thrown. This is "freak show of the day", not news, and certainly not a basis for pushing legislation onto everybody else.

What are the present restrictions on this fundamental right? And where do you see them falling short? Who should the new laws be applied to? And by whom?

[Saweeep]

^^^

I wasn't suggesting any of that stuff.

Merely chuckling to myself about the absurdity to be honest.

[samsamsam]

There will always be loopholes, workarounds for the most determined to get a gun for crimes.

In this instance, if they didn't have guns, maybe it is just a fistfight.

I believe we do need guns. But it needs improved oversight.

The Second Amendment says, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Is every gun owner part of a militia? I'll ignore the well regulated part since the word well can be debated over and over.

Also, I am not a fan of unregulated person to person gun sales. With something so potentially dangerous, surely a little regulation there isn't unreasonable.

I get it, no one wants regulation or oversight. People just wanna do what they wanna do.

[Aurini]

(01-25-2016 03:46 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

The Second Amendment says, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Is every gun owner part of a militia? I'll ignore the well regulated part since the word well can be debated over and over.

Also, I am not a fan of unregulated person to person gun sales. With something so potentially dangerous, surely a little regulation there isn't unreasonable.

I get it, no one wants regulation or oversight. People just wanna do what they wanna do.

So by your analysis when the founding fathers were laying out a list of everything the government WASN'T allowed to do, they tossed in "Oh, by the way - it's okay for the government to regulate their own militias." Because governments having militaries was a new thing?

The 2nd Amendment protects both the right to bear arms, AND the right to organize with your fellow men and train together in implementing said arms - it has nothing to do with the armed forces, or the national guard.

The only reason Free Speech still exists in this country, while it's been thrown out by the rest of Western Civilization, is because of the 2nd Amendment. It's that statement - saying that the government can't take your guns - that has prevented the full-on, unreported tyranny happening in Canada, where comedians get their careers destroyed and Priests are silenced for offending Lesbians and Muslims.

Already in the United States there are reams of idiotic rules governing sales of arms. None of the rules have done anything to prevent a single death, all they've done is erode your freedom and deny protection to good people. You don't want crazy people buying guns? Please, define crazy for me. The psychologists change their definitions every five years in favour of whatever lets them prescribe the greatest number of poorly-studied psychoactive agents. You don't want unregistered sales? I suppose that means you want the government to keep track of who owns every gun, and to periodically walk into people's houses to make sure they're being stored as per the regulations?

Saying you support some legislation is no different than saying that certain forms of speech shouldn't be allowed because they're obviously wrong.

I'll let Steven Crowder educate you on the rest:

[philosophical_recovery]

I fully support gun sellers to refuse to serve shifty- eyed lunatics that sometimes wonder into gun stores. Or, people that have proven to be idiots on the range. "You aren't welcome here. Leave." I refuse to shop at one gun store near me because of their lack of judgement. I didn't even need to involve congress. My problem solved.

This case obviously escalated beyond that, but I've seen opposing videos of salesmen defending themselves against similar.

[spokepoker]

I love my guns, and I love owning a ton of them. But I would be in favor of some sort of testing/licensing required before owning, like how you have to test for getting a driver's license. In my state you don't need to register your guns, which I'm fine with, but any idiot over 18 can buy a gun. For a hunting license, you need to take a class and get certified. It goes over what is legal in which hunting areas at times of the year, and safety and whatever else. The class isn't required if you are above a certain age (I'm guessing because that shit used to be taught in school before the 80's).
Anyways, if you want to buy a gun, be required to take safety class and pass a test showing you aren't a complete moron, and you will be a responsible gun owner.

I worked at a pistol range back in the day, so I've seen lots of stupid shit. My own father was one of them, I rented a gun out to him, range fee, ammo, targets, etc., and since he was my father, I figured him to have common sense about it. On the range monitors I watched him put rounds into a mag, insert mag, retract slide, then AD into the side panel of the lane he was in (it's made of 3/4" steel). I knew he had gun hunting with his friends before, so I figure he knew the safety rules of operating a gun, so I didn't run him through operations and handling, like I would any other newbie.

[mickeyd]

Shit like this is why I'm anti-gun. Most of these hillbillies think with the most circle-jerk pseudo-logic I've ever heard (kind of like a feminist). Ex:

Me: why do you need a concealed handgun?
Hillbilly: Because I need to protect myself.
Me: from who?
Hillbilly: From criminals of course.
Me: so you've been a victim of crime and now you see the need for it?
Hillbilly: no
Me: so why do you need it?
Hillbilly: well i saw on the news that everyone was getting attacked and this one time my cousin got harrassed by a homeless guy...

These people live in totally safe environments and feel the need to play the "Batman fantasy" instead of getting real hobbies (George Zimmerman, a classic example). They overspend on diesel 4x4 trucks to drive on good roads and they have no hitches on their truck because they don't own anything that they'd need to tow. And then they go out and buy AR-15's for 1500 dollars, and glocks for 700 dollars, outrageously expensive for how simple modern guns are (the police force gets glocks for something like 300 dollars).

Based on the encounter, I assume that the gun shop owner hillbillies were being belligerent, but still in the right, because it's their store, and the other hillbillies had handguns and were being assholes as well, which led to a shootout. Much ado about nothing.

Unfortunately no gun legislation ever gets through because hillbillies think " omg! the guberment is trying to take my guns and exterminate children!! omg! the evil database of gun owners will destroy us all". But you can't have an automatic weapon, cant have rockets, grenades etc. Alot of "arms" are already banned. And the government knows your address, what car you own, where you work, who your relatives are, and can access bank records, purchases, etc. How the fuck is another database going to affect you?

A strict handgun permit is probably the most sensible thing we need. and stiff penalties for handgun owners without permits. So the legal conceal carriers can keep doing what they want, but the idiots, weekend gangbangers, and untrained get weeded out. And everyone gets to keep their long guns

[aeroektar]

[Steve_Jay]

To be fair, the majority of murders aren't committed by "hillbillies". They are committed by African American men.

If one story about two people getting shot in a country of 300 million people convinces you of your anti gun position, than that just shows you are easily swayed by emotion. You form your anti gun position based on emotion brought on by your social conditioning rather than looking at the data.

[philosophical_recovery]

(01-25-2016 04:27 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  

I love my guns, and I love owning a ton of them. But I would be in favor of some sort of testing/licensing required before owning, like how you have to test for getting a driver's license. In my state you don't need to register your guns, which I'm fine with, but any idiot over 18 can buy a gun. For a hunting license, you need to take a class and get certified. It goes over what is legal in which hunting areas at times of the year, and safety and whatever else. The class isn't required if you are above a certain age (I'm guessing because that shit used to be taught in school before the 80's).
Anyways, if you want to buy a gun, be required to take safety class and pass a test showing you aren't a complete moron, and you will be a responsible gun owner.

I worked at a pistol range back in the day, so I've seen lots of stupid shit. My own father was one of them, I rented a gun out to him, range fee, ammo, targets, etc., and since he was my father, I figured him to have common sense about it. On the range monitors I watched him put rounds into a mag, insert mag, retract slide, then AD into the side panel of the lane he was in (it's made of 3/4" steel). I knew he had gun hunting with his friends before, so I figure he knew the safety rules of operating a gun, so I didn't run him through operations and handling, like I would any other newbie.

Older people need to be treated with caution. The same with driving a car. Last time I went shooting with my dad I got all over his case for sloppy handling. I don't care how well I know someone, I'm right on their case after seeing sloppy handling. And he had private training.

All licensing does is remove agency from those close by, as they assume the licensee knows what they're doing. Responsible ranges that I've been to have strict range officers that are right there, ready to stop people doing ADs or shooting off target. They also vet people for certain areas.

Always use your better judgement, regardless of paperwork.

[aeroektar]

(01-25-2016 04:28 PM)mickeyd Wrote:  

Shit like this is why I'm anti-gun. Most of these hillbillies think with the most circle-jerk pseudo-logic I've ever heard (kind of like a feminist). Ex:

Me: why do you need a concealed handgun?
Hillbilly: Because I need to protect myself.
Me: from who?
Hillbilly: From criminals of course.
Me: so you've been a victim of crime and now you see the need for it?
Hillbilly: no
Me: so why do you need it?
Hillbilly: well i saw on the news that everyone was getting attacked and this one time my cousin got harrassed by a homeless guy...

These people live in totally safe environments and feel the need to play the "Batman fantasy" instead of getting real hobbies (George Zimmerman, a classic example). They overspend on diesel 4x4 trucks to drive on good roads and they have no hitches on their truck because they don't own anything that they'd need to tow. And then they go out and buy AR-15's for 1500 dollars, and glocks for 700 dollars, outrageously expensive for how simple modern guns are (the police force gets glocks for something like 300 dollars).

Based on the encounter, I assume that the gun shop owner hillbillies were being belligerent, but still in the right, because it's their store, and the other hillbillies had handguns and were being assholes as well, which led to a shootout. Much ado about nothing.

Unfortunately no gun legislation ever gets through because hillbillies think " omg! the guberment is trying to take my guns and exterminate children!! omg! the evil database of gun owners will destroy us all". But you can't have an automatic weapon, cant have rockets, grenades etc. Alot of "arms" are already banned. And the government knows your address, what car you own, where you work, who your relatives are, and can access bank records, purchases, etc. How the fuck is another database going to affect you?

A strict handgun permit is probably the most sensible thing we need. and stiff penalties for handgun owners without permits. So the legal conceal carriers can keep doing what they want, but the idiots, weekend gangbangers, and untrained get weeded out. And everyone gets to keep their long guns

And you know whats great about America? You have every right to live in a city or state with harsher gun laws. By all means, even pack your shit and move to Germany or wherever.

[samsamsam]

(01-25-2016 04:07 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

None of the rules have done anything to prevent a single death, all they've done is erode your freedom and deny protection to good people.

There is no way you could possibly know that. By making such outlandish statements it ruins the credibility of your comments. I know you are an intelligent person who has written a good number of solid posts, so I won't go to that extreme to discount everything you say.

But let's be reasonable, you cannot say that these rules have not stopped a single death.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

The Second Amendment says, "A well regulated Militia...

In 18th-Century-speak, "well-regulated" means well-trained or drilled.

When Paul Revere went on his ride, he didn't shout "the British are coming!" It was actually, "the regulars are coming out!" Regulars meant the professional British Army, not the militia.

[mickeyd]

(01-25-2016 04:41 PM)aeroektar Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 04:28 PM)mickeyd Wrote:  

Shit like this is why I'm anti-gun. Most of these hillbillies think with the most circle-jerk pseudo-logic I've ever heard (kind of like a feminist). Ex:

Me: why do you need a concealed handgun?
Hillbilly: Because I need to protect myself.
Me: from who?
Hillbilly: From criminals of course.
Me: so you've been a victim of crime and now you see the need for it?
Hillbilly: no
Me: so why do you need it?
Hillbilly: well i saw on the news that everyone was getting attacked and this one time my cousin got harrassed by a homeless guy...

These people live in totally safe environments and feel the need to play the "Batman fantasy" instead of getting real hobbies (George Zimmerman, a classic example). They overspend on diesel 4x4 trucks to drive on good roads and they have no hitches on their truck because they don't own anything that they'd need to tow. And then they go out and buy AR-15's for 1500 dollars, and glocks for 700 dollars, outrageously expensive for how simple modern guns are (the police force gets glocks for something like 300 dollars).

Based on the encounter, I assume that the gun shop owner hillbillies were being belligerent, but still in the right, because it's their store, and the other hillbillies had handguns and were being assholes as well, which led to a shootout. Much ado about nothing.

Unfortunately no gun legislation ever gets through because hillbillies think " omg! the guberment is trying to take my guns and exterminate children!! omg! the evil database of gun owners will destroy us all". But you can't have an automatic weapon, cant have rockets, grenades etc. Alot of "arms" are already banned. And the government knows your address, what car you own, where you work, who your relatives are, and can access bank records, purchases, etc. How the fuck is another database going to affect you?

A strict handgun permit is probably the most sensible thing we need. and stiff penalties for handgun owners without permits. So the legal conceal carriers can keep doing what they want, but the idiots, weekend gangbangers, and untrained get weeded out. And everyone gets to keep their long guns

And you know whats great about America? You have every right to live in a city or state with harsher gun laws. By all means, even pack your shit and move to Germany or wherever.

You know whats even greater about America? We have a political system in which we can voice our opinion, vote, and change our laws. And, for the record, the only thing I support is harsher handgun laws, nothing involving long guns. I think I will stay put where I was born and raised, with my shotgun and rifles, and vote in my local elections.

[samsamsam]

I'm also for more mental health services. Not this BS micro aggression, safe space shit that SJWs are screaming about. For the real issues.

I believe there is some correlation there.

[kaotic]

Mental Issues + Meds + Guns = Disaster waiting to happen.

Elephant in the room has and always will be mental health issues.

[realologist]

I actually like what happens in regards to firearms in the area I live in. There is a healthy balance in regards in what it takes to get a firearm.

That said the areas where guns are the biggest problems are also the places where they are almost entirely illegal to carry or have in your household unless locked up inside a safe inside a safe where you swallow the key. Those big cities need to adopt a more balanced and healthy status on guns and gun ownership. Promote posiitive gun ownership and how and when to properly use one.

An often ignored part of this is the degrading mental health of Americans in general. This is the reason why the number of victims involved in each mass shooting has increased (not the frequency of shootings). The mental health system in America is terrible and a lot of people that should be in mental institutions end up in prisons, on the streets or in treatment 1 month down the line when the gun store is around the corner and they only have to wait 2 weeks. That is the real issue.

I'm sure atleast 1/4 people involved in this event has mental health issues.

[aeroektar]

(01-25-2016 05:17 PM)mickeyd Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 04:41 PM)aeroektar Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 04:28 PM)mickeyd Wrote:  

Shit like this is why I'm anti-gun. Most of these hillbillies think with the most circle-jerk pseudo-logic I've ever heard (kind of like a feminist). Ex:

Me: why do you need a concealed handgun?
Hillbilly: Because I need to protect myself.
Me: from who?
Hillbilly: From criminals of course.
Me: so you've been a victim of crime and now you see the need for it?
Hillbilly: no
Me: so why do you need it?
Hillbilly: well i saw on the news that everyone was getting attacked and this one time my cousin got harrassed by a homeless guy...

These people live in totally safe environments and feel the need to play the "Batman fantasy" instead of getting real hobbies (George Zimmerman, a classic example). They overspend on diesel 4x4 trucks to drive on good roads and they have no hitches on their truck because they don't own anything that they'd need to tow. And then they go out and buy AR-15's for 1500 dollars, and glocks for 700 dollars, outrageously expensive for how simple modern guns are (the police force gets glocks for something like 300 dollars).

Based on the encounter, I assume that the gun shop owner hillbillies were being belligerent, but still in the right, because it's their store, and the other hillbillies had handguns and were being assholes as well, which led to a shootout. Much ado about nothing.

Unfortunately no gun legislation ever gets through because hillbillies think " omg! the guberment is trying to take my guns and exterminate children!! omg! the evil database of gun owners will destroy us all". But you can't have an automatic weapon, cant have rockets, grenades etc. Alot of "arms" are already banned. And the government knows your address, what car you own, where you work, who your relatives are, and can access bank records, purchases, etc. How the fuck is another database going to affect you?

A strict handgun permit is probably the most sensible thing we need. and stiff penalties for handgun owners without permits. So the legal conceal carriers can keep doing what they want, but the idiots, weekend gangbangers, and untrained get weeded out. And everyone gets to keep their long guns

And you know whats great about America? You have every right to live in a city or state with harsher gun laws. By all means, even pack your shit and move to Germany or wherever.

You know whats even greater about America? We have a political system in which we can voice our opinion, vote, and change our laws. And, for the record, the only thing I support is harsher handgun laws, nothing involving long guns. I think I will stay put where I was born and raised, with my shotgun and rifles, and vote in my local elections.

This story of the hillbilly shootout in Mississippi is not a common occurrence, even with harsher handgun laws this would still happen from time to time. On the other hand, cities like DC and Chicago with the toughest gun laws in the country experience some of the highest murder rates, committed by people who could give a fuck less about any gun laws because they're going to ignore them and unlawfully possess regardless.

What we need to look at is how these people are getting these guns and stop them from getting them, but not at the expense of limiting the freedoms of the majority of law abiding non violent Americans. How do we do that? Well how are they getting guns in chicago? I honestly dont know, but you often hear the claim that the guns are bought in Indiana and brought into Chicago, if thats really true, we need to punish the fuck out of gun dealers in Indiana who are making those sales. If the dealers arent at fault, surely theres a name attached to a legal sale, that person should face harsh punishment. You also hear about the gunshow loophole, which again, if a gun is tracked back to an illegal gun show sale, punish all parties involved.

I dont know what kind of time one does for any kind of gun violation, but the sentences should be longer and harsher if people keep reoffending or arent scared of punishment. From what I understand though, we don't enforce our current gun laws.

The mental health thing also seems like a good idea on the surface but it needs the proper implementation. Its not as simple as it sounds.

I live in Massachusetts where just to get a shotgun or rifle you need to get a sign off from the local CLEO and then you need to take a firearms safety class which is fucking retarded and literally anyone can pass, then if you want to buy a handgun and carry, or buy any semi-auto, you need to go take another class/get another permit. I live in the city with the highest crime rate, there are illegal guns all over the streets. I'd feel a lot safer in a city the same size in a state like Tennessee, Texas, Florida, Georgia, Utah, etc. where good people don't have to jump through as many hoops to obtain a firearm.

[Steve_Jay]

MickeyD. Why should we further regulate handgun ownership?