[Pride male]

If god exists I am sure he doesnt look like a Homo Sapien. God is probably a gas or wind or something. I dont for a moment think he is a muscular guy with a beard.

[RatInTheWoods]

(05-16-2018 02:55 AM)Super_Fire Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 06:18 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

But there's no need to create supernatural fairy creation stories up

Textbook atheist argument.

"God" is no more fairy-tale than "atoms formed", a.k.a. the scientific equivalent of "shit happened."

You miss my point.

I'm ok with making shit up, that's fine. (well for religions anyway)

But when people try and say that shit they made up is a better, more rational and logical explanation as to where the universe comes from, that's where I need to remind everyone that a) we don't know, and b) making shit up is not better than a)

And don't misinterpret sciences position on creation. we 99% don't have a clue.

Of course we have a few wild theories, but almost no evidence or way of checking them. This doesn't mean "religion has the answers" at all.

[RatInTheWoods]

(05-16-2018 05:03 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

If god exists I am sure he doesnt look like a Homo Sapien. God is probably a gas or wind or something. I dont for a moment think he is a muscular guy with a beard.

[debeguiled]

You can't get from our senses and empiricism to God without faith.

If you could, you wouldn't need faith.

I believe in God, but I think RatInTheWoods' point is irrefutable.

Saying God made it isn't that much better than saying it evolved naturally because even a total dummy is going to think to say: Then who made God?

And you won't have an answer.

Maybe you can say that the current state of things seems so organized that it had to be the product of a conscious mind and get away with it.

But you have no real answer for origins.

It is better to be honest about that than pretend saying God made it is a answer to the origin of things.

I also like thinking of myself as one of the "evolved chips".

[Super_Fire]

(05-16-2018 04:22 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(05-16-2018 02:55 AM)Super_Fire Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 06:18 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

But there's no need to create supernatural fairy creation stories up

Textbook atheist argument.

"God" is no more fairy-tale than "atoms formed", a.k.a. the scientific equivalent of "shit happened."

You miss my point.

I'm ok with making shit up, that's fine. (well for religions anyway)

But when people try and say that shit they made up is a better, more rational and logical explanation as to where the universe comes from, that's where I need to remind everyone that a) we don't know, and b) making shit up is not better than a)

And don't misinterpret sciences position on creation. we 99% don't have a clue.

Of course we have a few wild theories, but almost no evidence or way of checking them. This doesn't mean "religion has the answers" at all.

The problem with this debate is that it's been sullied by the American evangelicals and their Creationism in schools and the ensuing backlash.

I think science is compatible with the notion that there is rational order to the universe. What I call God is whatever machination that ensures there is a continuing rational order to the universe. We see it clearly from the geometry of natural to sexual dimorphism in animals. All of these things are so well created, even mathematically-so, that it's clear all of creation conforms to some kind of order (even that which feels chaotic to us in the short-term).

[Sherman]

Tony Campolo is a son of a famous evangelist who became an atheist. He wrote a book with is father called "Why I left Why I Stayed". He talks about why he left the religion and his father talks about why he stayed. This seems like a good book to get both points of view.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GCCT3CU/ref...TF8&btkr=1

This is an interesting interview with Tony Campolo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM5zG_w4AZE&t=390s

[Seth_Rose]

"Without God, all is permitted" - Dostoevsky

This quote arises from the main character in "Crime and Punishment" rationalizing the murder of a pawn broker. He convinces himself that murdering her would be better for everyone: She torments her daughter, and holds debt over the heads of the downtrodden. "The world would be better off without her!" So, naturally, he murders her...

Without God, all is permitted, because without any objective morality passed down to us through religion, we can rationalize any immoral behavior that conveniently fits our interests. Whether it is sex, drugs, or murder, people will find a way to do it because "Hey, we're just a bunch of carbon floating on a speck of dust hueueuheu".

If atheists could create a compelling set of moral guidance, I'd be on board. But they can't. Secular Humanism? Give me a break. This is just a BS ideology that elites tout as an alternative to religion, even though they don't really know what it is. It just sounds nice. Nor will it ever catch on with the masses as it's not compelling. While some may balk at the myths of the Bible, myths are how morals and teachings are most effectively passed down.

Religion is universal because it provides an essential utility to mankind: It promotes moral guidance, virtue, strength, and of course, reproduction, which atheists have no reason to do because "Hey were just meat sacks! YOLO"

As Voltaire said, "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." Yup. Religion has worked pretty well for thousands of years, so the atheists better have a damn good reason for getting rid of it. So far, I am not convinced.

[Gray Beard]

(01-24-2016 07:57 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(01-24-2016 07:56 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

100%.

the more you study, delve into and ACTUALLY understand sciences like Structural Biology, Combinatorics and Algebraic topology you can't help BUT believe in God.

Tell me more about this. I don't understand.

TLDR: The "proof" Anabasis to Desta cites for the existence of God looks false to me. The more I understand science the more I am committed to atheism.

First, I gave The Father's post a like because earlier I almost wished there were a button for "dislike," which I would apply to the statement made by Anabasis to Desta. Next, since this is my first post to this thread let me state for the record that I was "born" agnostic (with atheistic inclinations) and developed into a full-fledged atheist. By "born" I mean that ever since understanding the question I knew I couldn't believe the religious arguments. My reasoning was simple, and perhaps childish, but then again, I was a child at the time: If God created the world/universe, then who created God? Childish or not, none of my religious relatives (some of whom were very learned rabbis) could answer that question to my satisfaction. But because I could not imagine a better explanation, I decided I didn't know, and that, almost by definition, means agnostic. What turned me from agnostic with atheist inclinations to full atheism was Daukins' "The Selfish Gene." And why am I commenting on this particular post at this time? Because Daukins turned me into a fully fledged atheist by showing how science (evolution theory) can explain not just a lot but virtually everything, whereas Anabasis to Desta cited science (specifically three branches of mathematics) as his proof of the opposite. Hence, his "proof" flies in the face of my own experience: the more I know the less doubt I have that there is no God. And finally, even in my agnostic days, I always believed that the institutional Judeo-Christian religions were sold by lies: In other words, I never believed God spoke to Moses or the prophets, and I certainly never believed the Christian mythology, but then again almost nobody did where I grew up.

Almost needless to say, but I will say it anyway: Nobody that I can imagine, and certainly not me personally, understands everything. The point is that evolution theory explains so much that it becomes clear that even what we don't yet understand is potentially explainable, we just don't know how yet. Furthermore, evolution does not explain how the universe was created, and I have yet to see evidence that physicists are getting close to cracking this question, but my childish question cited above precludes settling it by God either.

Finally, I am reading through the thread for the first time, and decided to take the liberty of responding to some messages before finishing, in real time, so pardon me if I repeated some point previously mentioned by somebody else.

Edit: I now reached Post 29, where A to D explained the connection he saw between certain mathematical sciences and God. It boils down to appreciation of some marvels of nature that he cannot believe to be random, hence there must be a God. I don't think anybody here denies that nature is remarkably impressive, but to me that proves nothing. Certainly things like Fibonacci series (and the Golden Ratio they converge to) do not prove a God to me! On the one hand, I wish I was not arguing here with a banned member who can't respond, but on the other hand, I feel that this argument should be questioned. Here is a quote from his post:

Anabasis to Desta Wrote:

The basis for the scientific origins of the earth is the Big Bang theory. Which essentially was a "random" event. But the more you study science, especially disciplines like Structural biology, Combinatorics and Algebraic Topology ... you realize the world and the universe is anything BUT random.
Because it's pure perfection.

Symmetry. From DNA molecules at the full cycle of the double helix, to tree branches, sea shells, the human body and even hurricanes all follow the Golden Ratio and the Fibonacci series.

Go spend 3 days out in the woods with nothing but a blanket, a knife and water purifier. Nature itself is a miracle that we fail to appreciate .The Human brain and digestive system is magic. I refuse to believe all this is random. There is "purpose and intent" written all over.

[Pride male]

^Doesnt religion also rationalize some very evil acts? Religious persecution, child genital mutilation, human sacrifice, war, racism, slavery, torture, sexism etc. So with God, all is permitted.

[Gray Beard]

(01-24-2016 09:28 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

Yes.

Even if God isn't real, dedicating my life to an imaginary, invisible, infallible, benevolent master is more comforting than putting my trust in money, other people, cars or intoxicants.

To be shown proof that God doesn't exist would simply mean that I've done some charitable works for benevolence's sake, tried to live by a moral code and have the same bruised ego at being proven wrong as a few other million christians, then I die and turn to dust, who cares. Compare that to being shown proof that God DOES exist, I'd feel like quite the asshole having to get on the down escalator of eternity because I was too stubborn to accept a free gift from Jesus.

The opportunity cost to believe in God is pretty low. A lot less costly than say, believing that your wife is your soulmate and only reason for living and then being cucked.

If its not a woman we pedestalize, its something else. We all have our idols, be they immaterial or material.

This argument is known as Pascal's Wager (see link below), and when a Christian colleague tried to use it to convince me I should become a believer I had a difficult time not laughing out loud. I did not want to offend him and it is not my intention to offend Dr Howard either. But with all due respect, the argument boils down to being cowed by the threats of eternal damnation that the church has always used to exert power over the masses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

[Super_Fire]

(05-18-2018 12:00 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

^Doesnt religion also rationalize some very evil acts? Religious persecution, child genital mutilation, human sacrifice, war, racism, slavery, torture, sexism etc. So with God, all is permitted.

"Religion"

Nobody is advocating Islam or Old Testament sola scriptura here.[/font]

[Gray Beard]

(01-25-2016 02:02 PM)EDantes Wrote:  

I won't get into the nitty gritty but I think you can prove God using logic and other areas of knowledge.

Basically I think the fundamentals of existence are symmetry (order, beauty, good) and asymmetry (disorder, ugliness, evil) - if order exists (and it does) and order is equal to God, this means god exists.

Statement 1: order is equal to God
Statement 2: order exists
Conclusion: Therefore God exists.

Problem 1: Why should anybody ELSE accept that order is equal to God?
Problem 2 (much more minor): Why is there so much chaos, disorder, and evil in God's purported creation?

Of course, Problem 1 is sufficient to disqualify the proof. People are entitled to believe whatever they wish, and if they choose to believe Statement 1 even though there is no inherent compelling reason for others to believe it must be true, then they can ignore the lack of order around and decide to interpret all that as belief in God. Fine, but it does not mean that believing some order exists proves the existence of God. In other words, no, you cannot prove it.

[Gray Beard]

(01-27-2016 11:15 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(01-27-2016 11:10 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(01-27-2016 11:48 AM)The Father Wrote:  

Interesting comments, all. I think where I've ended up is that, while I see no evidence for a god, the possibility is so unknowable that I refuse to rule it out.

Agnosticism is a rational position, much more so than atheism in my opinion. I was an agnostic for a long time.

Quote:

And I've seen too many eerie things happen to not think there is some collective consciousness out there, some string we are pushing on. For example, did you ever suddenly wonder "Hey, I wonder whatever happened to my old friend Bob. Haven't thought of Bob in YEARS!" And then minutes later, Bob calls out of the blue :/ After years. There is some sort of super-consciousness we all occasionally tap into. Not sure what that means or implies about a deity or a higher collective consciousness beyond our mortal, individual consciousness. But it's just odd.

I've had at least two confirmed experiences, with the different individuals, along the lines of a shared psychic phenomenon. I had prior shared a traumatic experience with one of these individuals (we had a mutual deceased friend), and with the other we had had an intense personal connection (a girl - though not one that I had had sex with nor was going to). The former experience was intensely physical, shared, unmistakable, and confirmed in the moment as we were within ten feet of one another. Also, it involved the deceased friend, in a manner of speaking, and was one of the most memorable experiences of my life. The latter experience occurred across several states and was confirmed later.

Though, I can't hold these to be evidence of "God", the experiences were evidence enough for me toward a shared consciousness of sorts, or perhaps a communication channel that is accessible if enough love, emotion, trauma, etc. is shared between individuals. The one that involved the dead friend seemed to involve a third power, and that is how I always interpreted it. I've had other experiences, but these are the only ones that I am reasonably confident in terms of their nature; at least insofar as anyone can be. I'm not one to look for experiences like this, or to over-interpret them, but also I can't deny that these events occurred.

Those are exactly my experiences. I do not pretend they prove "God". They just prove that there are yet undiscovered realities. If you were born in the 3rd century, you'd look around at the moon and stars and tides and seasons and KNOW they were real....but you'd have no idea why. So you might make up a story to explain it. We see phenomena like what you and I have described above, we know it to be real, and we do not yet have the science to explain it. Well I won't make up a Church of a Flying Spaghetti Monster to explain it, but I do believe something exists, something meaningful and powerful, and I have no real idea about it's nature. That is simultaneously the most interesting, frustrating, and somewhat frightening thought of which I can conceive.

There are scientists out there who think that anything they can't prove exists, doesn't. But they miss the point that there are things science cannot explain YET. I for one never had experiences of the type described above but I see no reason to claim they have not been experienced by others. I don't know, and I know I don't know. But key here is that these unexplained claims, even if true, do not by themselves prove God. In other words, I fully agree with the bolded statements.

On a related matter, arguments showing that some religion preaches good social values do not prove God either. They just prove that religious leaders want to take credit for human traits, as if we will all abandon decency if we lose our belief in God/Christianity/Judaism/Whatever. But there is no compelling reason to accept that notion either.

[AnonymousBosch]

One day I think I might write a book about coming to understand how real the Supernatural Life is. The series of events since July last year has been incredible with both deep insights and knowledge coming from nowhere, particularly how one event has given me later flashes of clarity during a later event, and how some events have echoed and repeated. I lost a girlfriend, and gained a Wife-to-Be. I was given both a Son and a Grandfather. I thought my life was ordered, but have discovered it was only regimented and disciplined.

The guys who privately heard me discuss Generational Curses and Family Demons last year, and, particularly, inheriting the sins of your parents know how I'd resolved to fix it and break the curse, (with me not knowing my Sister had resolved to do the same thing privately). You'll understand how real this was to me in a way a casual reader won't.

There's so much too this, for months now, but I'll give you the Cliff Notes version of the last week and a half, which has been amazing.

- I entered the State of Desolation, and strengthened my resolve to not give up on God.

- Seeking understanding, I was 'led' to the knowledge I needed to combat it.

- This also led me to an Exorcist, who explained that all of Dysfunction is really the result of demonic influence upon our wounds, often all stemming from one Primary Wound that they keep reopening.

- I've done a lot of research into the Blessed Virgin Mary this year, trying to understand why Protestants despise her so much, then considering the usual bracketed suspects were behind the Reformation (two different books by Rabbis taking Jewish claim for it), I understood that there is probably something important there being obscured. ('Mariology' by Rev M. J. Scheeben; 'This Vale of Tears' by AJ West).

- Their interpretations are of Mary being the New Eve, our co-redeemer with Christ, the woman whose heel has the power to crush the head of the Serpent forever.

- The Exorcist also explained that Demons are powerless before the Blessed Virgin, and said if you want to understand your Primary Wound, to approach her as Our Lady of Sorrows, with the Daily Seven Sorrows Devotion, and ask for it to be revealed to you.

- I tried it. Later that day, I, well, just understood that my Primary Wound was my inability to forgive my Father for his physical abuse of my mother, sister and I, and that all sins of Pride naturally extend from that. Everything I do that ever creates 'sin' i.e. dysfunction seemed to connect back to it, like one of those crazy conspiracy maps.

- A few days later, I Fell, after maintaining a State of Grace for a couple of weeks. Later that day, Fisto privately-messaged me. I didn't think his message was accurate, but I thought, "OK that's Pride talking. Even though some of it's obviously-wrong, look for the truth amongst it."

- I focused on what hurt the most to read, then accepted it.

- I then decided I needed to call Dad - something was pushing me - and asked my Sister for his number. He surprised me by saying he'd come over immediately.

- My Dad's a big, imposing man, even for his age. Think the Wrestler Bill Goldberg, but that guy's a pussy next to Dad. It's why my Stepmother is younger than my Sister. But when he showed up, I was surprised at how much me not speaking to him for what must be at least 30 years has injured him. He cried, a lot. I rarely cry, I'm more a 'manly tears' kind of bloke. Hell, I didn't cry over the videos that were linked here a few weeks back.

He praised my beard, took photos, and cried again that I had turned into a 'man'. I sensed that, despite his apparent outwards extreme physicality, he's a very emotionally-weak man.

- As such, I was struck with a sense of pity. That, despite what he looks like from the outside, he's just really, on the inside, a little old man, rather than the Monster I remembered. It's like he shrunk the longer we talked.

- He said to me "I never really understood what I did wrong". When I told Bill the next day - he really-advised me against this - he snorted. (He's seen the scars on my body). "Good emotional manipulation there." Which is pretty much what I thought as it happened.

I said "Well, yeah, but I'm strong enough to bear his bullshit, and I'm tasked to love him anyway."

- I offered to cook him and his wife dinner the next night, and told them to bring my 1 year old stepbrother. I kind of didn't expect them to show up - I figured she'd be suspicious and, being a woman, would be terrified of me poaching financial resources from her children that he adopted, as well as the one they'd had together. When I rang him later that day, he made excuses, and said he'd call me the next day.

I wasn't worried. I fed The Kid and Bill the dinner I'd prepared, telling the Kid what had happened and how - given that I told him to forgive his own father for abandoning him back in January - I wasn't being a hypocrite. It was later both he and I learnt from his Aunt that his Father was, functionally, brain-damaged, and his often bizarre behaviour suddenly made sense in its senselessness to both of us.

- My Father didn't message me until late that night, asking if I wanted to see today. I was getting a bit annoyed at the overcomplication here - I hate texting - so just said "Message me when you have time, and I'll work around you."

- This morning, I prayed the Seven Sorrow Devotion, and asked for my Father's Primary Wound to be revealed to me.

- I thought it was a coin toss today whether he'd show up, but he did, late in the afternoon. With the stress of the first meeting gone, we could open up a bit more. I said I didn't really want to dredge things up, and that blame wouldn't help and to just move forward, but he seemed to need to know why. It seemed to be a sticking point with him and my mother: he mentioned something my Sister said that he'd told her: how my Mother would get pissed off, he'd ask her what is wrong and she'd snap "You should know!"

I've long understood my mother's flaws, so I just laughed: "That's every woman. They expect you to read their minds, or nag you enough that you eventually tune out what they do say."

He looked confused.

I said, "You know, they're being passive-aggressive." I did an imitation. "Fine then, I'll hang out the washing all by myself."

He looked even more confused, so I stopped. "How does it work with [my Stepmum]?"

He shrugged and said "Well she's my friend, and we're straight with each other, so she just yells in my face or hits me when she's angry and I know what I've done wrong."

And then I suddenly understood, clear as day.

His confused looks whenever I discussed deeper emotional concepts, like how when he said "I'm sorry you had to look after your Mum with what happened to her", meaning her long death from cancer, and I said "It taught me a lot about myself, was a humbling experience, and demystified death for me, so I no longer fear it."

His inability to understand why my Sister, my mother or I would be angry with him.

The sense I always had as a child that Dad was interested in his own projects and we were always in the way and that he didn't want us around.

The fact that he'd be passionately-into a new hobby for a while, give it his all, then suddenly lose interest and move onto, meaning, I always had the feeling he took off the coat of my family and put on the coat of his new one.

The fact that, even as a child, I could never understand him, thought he was kind of dumb, and assumed I got my intelligence from my Mother's side.

- For the last thirty minutes, I'd subtly-noted his movements to myself: he'd been fastidiously lining up the placemats on the table just so or his left hand would wander into an absent-minded motion when he'd get excited.

My Father, who looks like the biggest Alpha badarse Player you've ever seen, whom always had women lusting after him and men wanting to be in his orbit, is, in actuality, Autistic.

I mean, he was just my Dad. How does a child know what is normal or not?

But now I can see he doesn't respond to emotional cues and unspoken subtext not because he's a steely-eyed bad boy, but because he genuinely-doesn't understand. His violence was, most likely, frustration over not understanding, the way my nephew pitches a fit when he gets confused and overstimulated.

And, just like that, 35 years of anger and resentment, of striving to achieve in every manner possible and slaying every stunning woman I came across to prove that I wasn't just a discarded coat just melted away, and all that was left was compassion. My father is just a big confused child, and I realised how foolish I'd been in my assessment of him all these years, how arrogant in my own summation, loving my own intelligence.

I'm just an idiot.

My poor, poor parents. Nothing could have ever saved their marriage, or stopped the hurt the divorce caused us all. All I could have ever have done was to forgive them and love them anyway, which I did with caring for her as she died.

With that, I understood that this was never about healing me - I'm stronger than I thought and it matters far less to me than I ever could have imagined - but it's about healing the hurt I've caused him, and that my role going forward is to be a Patient Father to him, not a Wounded Son.

He cried in my arms today, many times. I've joked many times about being Everyone's Dad, and the stable rock that everyone else throws themselves against when they break down, but I didn't understand I'd be the Dad to my own Dad, and too touched by compassion for him to cry myself.

It was only later, when I was alone, that I cried a few manly tears, understanding just how badly I've injured another human being, so long and so deep, despite what he did to me.

I rang my Sister a bit later: "Dad's Autistic, isn't he?"

She sighed gently. "I was praying you'd see it." She saw him earlier this week with her husband, and I'd meant to get together with her to catch up and find out how it went, but it just didn't seem to happen, almost like we were deliberately-kept apart.

"I've been horrible, for years. I forgave him, but I had to really spell it out for him."

"You need to be really direct with him," she said. "Or he doesn't understand."

"I noticed. It's good. I can see he's my emotional responsibility now. That I have to be the Dad as he ages. He's very... hyperemotional."

She nodded. "I think what happened to us mightn't be a bad thing. I think it made us very strong people, in a way he isn't."

I understood. "Strong enough to love him even though he'll hurt us emotionally..."

"... by not understanding he's hurting us." She completed my thought, then sighed again, and a heavy silence hung in the air.

I tried to lift the silence. "I prayed the Seven Sorrows this morning, and asked to understand, and, well, now I do, and it's humbled me deeply."

I'd sent her the devotion last week, but she hadn't commented on it to me yet, so it surprised me when she said she was looking at it an hour ago. "I looked further into it than what you sent me. The promised graces are beautiful."

The first one: I will grant peace to their families.

After we finished, I took a walk up on the Hill and watched the sun set. Some giant burden has been lifted from my shoulders, one I didn't realise I'd been carrying for so many years. Just... serenity.

Yeah, there was a hell of a lot more to this over the last six months: Withdrawing from all entertainment; the fasting; burning a stack of Occult Books a few months back; The Lebanese Woman; a pair of vanishing and returning glasses; even Smellmo and the Possessed Porn Stash. It's all one long, linked process: one deliberate domino falling after another.

Years of studying psychology and valuing Science was for naught, when all it really took was humbling myself before God, and understanding that, despite my intelligence, I really know nothing at all, and paying close attention whenever I felt the sensation of being pushed to do something.

So, yeah, I believe in God. The Supernatural Life is happening all around us, and I both sensed the problem and was lead to the solution, and can see events needed to happen in the order that they happened for it to work with pure forgiveness from my heart rather that trying to wound him with blame that wouldn't have registered with him anyway.

Try tuning into it, and see what you can do in your own lives.

[fokker]

^ If I could and like this 1000 times, I would.

[Comte De St. Germain]

God bless AB. I'm very happy to hear your words

[AnonymousBosch]

Following on from this:

I was doing some research for a fellow member, and found a three part lecture series on what the Generational Curse I believe had control over our family line was. It sounded useful for him, so I was just just listening to it first to make sure it's all on point.

Halfway through part two, the Exorcist was going deeper into Mary's role as having the power to crush the Serpent's Head, having had the Truth of Christ's Passion revealed to her during St. Simeon's prophecy to her at the Presentation.

Paraphrasing what he's saying:

From that point onwards, she carried the pain of knowing they would reject God through her Son. So, she enters into the Passion, knowing how it will already play out, so she doesn't panic, but unites her suffering with his, which merits intimacy with God, which results seeing in Him revealing to her things that no-one else sees.

Therefore, God will let her reveal to us things under certain circumstances. So that 'the hearts of many will be laid bare' - the heart of something hidden - she can reveal to you what is going on.

This is why you want to pray to her and ask "What is the Generational Spirit or Spirits in my family?" and she will reveal them.

Now, directly-quoting him:

The way it normally works is - usually when i tell people when they haven't paid too much attention to the Natural [ie Natural Law or Supernatural] side of things - what you do is pray to her, though it doesn't have to long, a Novena is good [others recommend the Seven Sorrows Devotion]- just pray to her every day and ask her to reveal what is the Generational Spirit in my family?

And my experience is that, usually within a week or two, if you don't already see it, you will get a Grace, it's not the type of thing where you think "OK, I think I might have figured it out." From my experience, what will happen is - fwoom - you'll just see it: "That's what the problem is in our family!" And it will probably be something you've never seen before. About 80% of the time the people who see this will say it was not what they had anticipated it to be.

This is exactly what happened. Fwoom! I just knew. And it wasn't what I suspected it always was at all. Note that I'd been praying the Rosary for Six Months so there was a pre-existing connection there. The Seven Sorrows was only prayed once before I understood, though now it's a daily devotion for me.

As he continues:

And then they go back and look, and they see it everywhere. In other words, the guy is hiding in plain sight, and you're distracted by all this other stuff [meaning things that engage the Lower Faculties]. You're not seeing it. She'll give you the grace - the lightening of the mind - to be able to see it.

He's right. Everywhere. It was like someone had laid out a map on a table before me. Everything linked to everything else. I could study everything and see, but it only took a moment.

And one of the ways you'll be able to verify it is that you will see it in yourself... ...You will recognise in yourself, "That's it!" And then you're realise you've always had a problem in this area... [for, pretty much, your] whole life."

I thought it was Lust: I'd inherited Dad's Uncontrolled Player Skills, and that Mum was driven by a Lust for control, and my Sister a Lust for comfort.

I suddenly understood that every dysfunctional we all possessed was Pride-based. Dad, too proud to approach us for forgiveness, or to bear his confusion without getting violent. My Mother, too proud to ever be subservient or to ask for help. My Sister, always dreaming of a unique connection to the unknown, and too proud to receive help from others. And me, too proud to ever let myself be average and to remain unnoticed in anything that I do, even though I'm also very uncomfortable with being noticed. Too proud to ever forgive. (Thank you, Duke).

He continued:

When Our Lady gives you this Grace, you're going to immediately-recognise all the collateral damage that has resulted from this [Spirit's] life within your family.

This was the Brutal Part of understanding: there was so much unnecessary pain and hurt we'd all caused each other, and all for nothing. This is why I'd suggest cultivating your Interior Life through Prayer and by detaching from your Lower Faculties for a while before attempting this, because, otherwise, you're not going to be able to deal with such harsh knowledge in a Functional Way to put this Wretched Thing down for good. I was determined.

Between my First and Second meeting, things could have gone very wrong. Note that all Bill's sins seem to stem from Pride, and he was in my ear about my father.

But, also note that I described an event to a friend after my first meeting my Dad:

Quote:

I don't know if I mentioned how I lost my glasses a couple of weeks back.

It was weird: they just completely-vanished, and were nowhere to be found. My girlfriend and I knew I had them when I went to bed, so we pulled the room apart looking for them: moving cupboards, moving the bed, stripping the bed, looking in all the drawers. They were just gone.

I finally found them this morning. I was vacuuming, and I've vacuumed once a week since I lost them, so I don't know why I didn't find them before, but there they were, underneath the curtains that I'd been opening and closing every morning, which should have easily revealed them.

I phoned my girlfriend to tell her, and she gasped and started crying. Since it was such an overreaction, I could only say "It's just a pair of glasses".

She said "No, no. This is exactly what you said would happen!"

I didn't remember what she was talking about. Apparently, during one of our evening walks up the big hill near my house, I'd said that perhaps the glasses completely-vanishing meant something, and that maybe God was teaching me a lesson: that I didn't see as clearly as I thought I did. This would be back to the molehills thing. [A member saying people were making 'mountains out of molehills', not understanding that, spiritually, every molehill is a mountain].

My girlfriend said "You said He'd return your glasses to you" - meaning, metaphorically, my sight - "so you'd know when you deserved to see-clearly."

Then I did remember the conversation. It was just one of those off-handed statements, but...

... think about what happened yesterday [the meeting with my Father].

Then think about what I clearly-saw on my second meeting with Father, that I didn't notice on the first meeting, and that I'd prayed to Our Lady to reveal to me.

You need to put in the time Purifying yourself first before you try to heal others. This was the repeated message of 'cleaning' I got earlier in the Year, and why I've been reading and studying and praying, and stepping further out of the world, as I have been since 2014.

----

With this understanding, I clearly-see the Pattern of the Adversary. They control anything that engages the Lower Faculties to Idle Distraction: as such, they dominate movies, television, theatre, the media, video game design.

The Process of Subversion is simply the way the Adversary's Agents take hold of anything that Engages the Higher Faculties of Reason - Education, Religion, The Written and Spoken Word, Philosophy, Law, The State, etc - which might make man aspire to Sanctity - and pervert them so that, instead, they become about the Lower Faculties of Emotion.

It's not fair for anyone to excel over another person in Education.

Religion isn't tolerant enough .

Language must be rewritten and controlled so no-one is offended.

Philosophy is too white, and needs diverse voices.

Women and minorities are judged too-harshly under the Law.

You must allow entry to people who despise your country, your values and want you dead or you're not truly-compassionate.

Do you see how this all ties back to what I've been saying for ages about Objective and Subjective Realities? All they're really doing is working for Satan, and removing the Spiritual Protections of a Society one by one. They're deliberately-trying to close off your avenues to God, so you think he's Dead, or Irrelevant.

Armour yourself.

[Sherman]

I saw some interesting videos of Buckminster Fuller giving lectures and interviews.

He is an interesting person to listen to. He believes there is a god who designed the universe, but he rejects the ancient religions as political systems that were created to control people. He believes that people should follow their personal experience instead of following authorities and belief systems. Fuller talks about the primacy of experience, and the virtue of learning by making mistakes. He also emphasisis truth - he once stopped talking for two years, and said he wasn't going to talk again until he was confident he could use words without misleading people.

Buckminster Fuller was the inventor of the Geodesic dome and a genius. He was also born in 1895 and was a navel commander in World War I.

Some quotes from Buckminster Fuller:

"Faith is much better than belief. Belief is when someone else does the thinking."

"I'm not a genius. I'm just a tremendous bundle of experience."

"God is a verb, not a noun."

Buckminter Fuller Lost Interviews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elVGz_VR3eU&t=2s


Buckminter Fuller speaks at UCLA 1973

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vkt3D_tAs8&t=867s

[debeguiled]

Buckminster Fuller was cool, but geodesic domes, it turns out, are a disaster. Imagine trying to build a house that was all roof with a million weird angles. They all leak.

It turns out that there is a very good reason we build homes as rectangles with foundations, walls, and roofs, and the building trades weren't sitting around waiting for someone to design the geodesic dome, they actually knew what they were doing.

Good hat, good boots, breathable skin. That's how to build a house.

[Rigsby]

Do I believe in God?

Why, most flattered you would ask or listen to the opinions of someone like little old me. But since you ask...


When I was just out of my teenage years I suffered a catastrophic injury. It was life changing. In many ways. Some I've only come to realise decades later. But yeah, it wasn't good at the time.

I had to dig deep.

I had always eschewed 'God'. Looked down on those that believed in 'Him'. I was your archetypal atheist. Not agnostic. Full on 'Fuck this shit'.

I had an easy life. And was gifted. Life had not yet kicked me hard enough in the bollox. This was one of the first strokes.

Having said that. There is something I can't talk about here. Another catastrophic event that happened when I had just become a teen. It's the sort of thing of your worst nightmares. Think of the top 3 things that you wouldn't want to happen to you as a man, and you will be in the ball park. But like the motherfucker I am, I bounced back. This post won't be about that. I won't mention it again. But I would be disingenuous not to mention it at all.

So, there I was, prime of life, young, gifted and white (can't have everything I suppose)!

Then I met with it. Sheer fucking brutality. 10 seconds that will change how you view yourself, view others, and even view 'God'. This is what this post is about. 'God'.

After the event I met with great kindness and compassion and this informed me as to my future outlook. People will surprise you. Not all nurses are nice. And not all your enemies are really your enemies. This was enlightening. But it's not the reason for my post.

I stood alone. I saw the faces of the doctors and my friends as they viewed the injury to my face. It was horrific. It was easy to see why I was targeted. Handsome as fuck. So got truly fucked up.

After visits from the few family and friends that came to see me (my father did not visit me, let's just leave it at that), and after visits from several doctors, I was left alone. I remember it now...

It was a very hot summer day. Big glass windows in the hospital. I could shut my eyes (or what was left of my eyes) and I could feel the heat. The heat that every human being who has ever lived has felt (just about). Sol the great 'God'. No wonder people used to worship this 'thing', when they 'didn't know better'.

It soothed me. It made me feel alive. And lucky to be alive. I was lucky to be alive, so this wasn't such a ridiculous feeling. I let in nourish me. I felt something stir in me. I felt a great calm. I felt a great power. I felt totally helpless, at the foot of 'God'. Could I?, Would I? reach out?

Nothing to lose. I made a pact. It was very humbling.

I told 'God' I was sorry for not believing in 'Him'. I can't say I was humiliated, because I was not. But humbled, I truly was. This was my choice. All I had to do was ask for forgiveness. Not for my sins, but just for not believing in the greater power that this universe holds. Whether 'God' created it, or is 'it', or resides in 'it' doesn't matter.

So I bargained. I told 'God' that I wasn't even sure if he existed, and this would be a test for him. In fact, I had tested him earlier, but I don't talk about that. All that had been forgotten. This was a new deal. Really, I had already betrayed him, after him answering my first prayer. But that's for another day...

"All you have to do 'God', is get me out of this shit, and I promise I will always believe in you, and I will tell everyone you are real - this is all you have to do for me". I'm too young and beautiful. I have too much life to live. You know this isn't fair. It's only right you show yourself to me.

'God' laughed.

This was my prayer. As Holy as they come. Crude? Rude? Both.

It's a good job that 'God' has a sense of humour is all I will say.

I waited some hours. I had a good feeling about this one. And there is no reason why I should, because the doctor's didn't. And those that saw the mess on my face didn't.

But my cockiness towards 'God' was my inner strength. It was what was needed. It was 'fight'. 'God' understood.

The day passed. No change. It's okay. Tomorrow is another day. And 'God' will answer my prayer. I have 'faith' 'He' 'Will'.

And sure enough it came!

Literally like a lightning bolt out of the blue, in the sense I could see it. Literally. And this is 'literally' meaning 'literally'. The change was immense. There was I, totally crippled, with doctor's advising I just had to get used to it, and within a day of praying to 'God' my prayers were beginning to be answered.

This was a good start. From here it could only get better. My earlier deal with 'God' was an 'either/or' deal. When I got out alive from that one, that was my prayer answered. But I don't like to talk about that.

And with each passing day I looked up and I felt the warmth of Sol. If it had been a cold winter, I honestly genuinely believe I would not have been healed. I know better than anyone why the Sun/Sol is worshiped as a 'God', because 'It', 'He', 'She' is!

It goes beyond providing light and photons to feed photosynthesis for plants to grow so we can harvest. There is something more. It's a warm sunny day with people dancing around a may pole. It's the heat you feel when you just got fucked up for real.

After getting such a great return on my 'investment', I prayed harder every day to 'God'. This was a long term plan. It payed off.

It was only a matter of weeks and months before things got back to normal. 'God' had answered my prayer. As cocky as I was. 'God' doesn't care about that. He only cares about 'intent'.

I prayed for my mum when she got cancer. My prayers were answered. She came back from a nasty illness.

I prayed for my brother when he got cancer. My prayers were answered. For a while. But then the nasty illness came back. Then he suffered an absolutely horrific death that is surely only reserved for Devils?

Who the fuck am I to question GOD?

Who the fuck are YOU to question GOD?

We can nitpick, we can browbeat, we can air our petty grievances, but really...

All I know is I shouldn't be alive. You will find GOD pretty quick when you find yourself in a situation where true imminent death is the likelihood.

No atheists in trenches boys!


In a way, I have betrayed GOD.

Because it wasn't just these times he has helped me out when I faced certain death. I could give stories of a couple more at least. I do get in to some scrapes sometimes. In my case at least, he answered my prayers.

Do I believe in GOD?

I do.

But I don't.

I question.

I'm a seeker.

And whatever incarnation GOD takes, I'm sure he will see my good heart. As cocky and as rude as I am. He will forgive.

And he will show the path...

Whatever that path is.

I only have eyes to see, and ears to listen.

And a heart to feel.

[Disco_Volante]

Really the only thing keeping me somewhat open to an afterlife is the quantum probability wave theory, which suggests nothing really takes shape until we observe it. I.E. our minds create reality.
It's just we don't notice it because the quantum level is so tiny this effect can't be seen except in light photons like the double-slit experiment. Even atoms are relatively *big* by comparison so obviously most everything already takes shape in front of us and this effect goes unnoticed by our primitive brains.

[Pride male]

Whats your opinion on deism?

[Quizzical_2]

I think Christianity is a very unique religion; it's based on an entirely historical, public event. As far as I'm aware, it's the first of its kind.

All though it's fun to listen to all the esoteric blabbering, it should come down to what the evidence points to as true.

I definitely think the historic case for Christianity is very strong, and worth anyone's time to look into. I highly suggest Craig Bloomberg's scholarly commentary on the Bible. Richard Bauckman's work on the New Testament is also quite good, and presents solid arguments and evidence for the historicity of the NT as a whole.

[Mage]

(07-28-2018 06:25 PM)Quizzical_2 Wrote:  

I think Christianity is a very unique religion; it's based on an entirely historical, public event. As far as I'm aware, it's the first of its kind.

All though it's fun to listen to all the esoteric blabbering, it should come down to what the evidence points to as true.

I definitely think the historic case for Christianity is very strong, and worth anyone's time to look into. I highly suggest Craig Bloomberg's scholarly commentary on the Bible. Richard Bauckman's work on the New Testament is also quite good, and presents solid arguments and evidence for the historicity of the NT as a whole.

Moses, Muhammad (pox be upon his name), Sidharta Gautama, Confucius and Lao Tzu were all supposedly real historical people too.

[Quizzical_2]

Mage, I tend to agree that all of those people existed. And I've considered evidence for their religions as well, but I've found them lacking in that regard. Well, except for Moses, I consider him a prophet.