[Saweeep]

(01-26-2016 01:51 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(01-26-2016 01:47 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

The thing is, it's so easy to take take take from a country.

Then criticise it and its history, despite all it has given, after you've gone.

It's a common theme amongst expatriates. It makes me sick.

Maybe you misread, maybe not. I said the English should not be punished for the past actions of their government.

If I misunderstood, I apologise.

I am just tired of the condescension I constantly hear towards the working class here, both past and present, and the history of the UK. From both inside and outside the country.

Particularly its past, mainly colonialism.

Our underclass of today deserves every bit of hostility it receives (which is not enough) but the working class is what built this country.

The English side of my family were once working class and distant branches still are; simple but genuine salt of the Earth folk.

I try and defend them at every opportunity I can.

Once again, sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick.

[1026]

^^ *catching feelings...* ^^

[DjembaDjemba]

(01-26-2016 01:56 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(01-26-2016 01:51 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(01-26-2016 01:47 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

The thing is, it's so easy to take take take from a country.

Then criticise it and its history, despite all it has given, after you've gone.

It's a common theme amongst expatriates. It makes me sick.

Maybe you misread, maybe not. I said the English should not be punished for the past actions of their government.

If I misunderstood, I apologise.

I am just tired of the condescension I constantly hear towards the working class here, both past and present, and the history of the UK. From both inside and outside the country.

Particularly its past, mainly colonialism.

Our underclass of today deserves every bit of hostility it receives (which is not enough) but the working class is what built this country.

The English side of my family were once working class and distant branches still are; simple but genuine salt of the Earth folk.

I try and defend them at every opportunity I can.

Once again, sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick.

London isn't just a city, it's a world capital.

[quino_16]

(01-26-2016 02:35 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

London isn't just a city, it's a world capital.

That's why it's not longer an English city.

[El Chinito loco]

(01-26-2016 12:24 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

(01-25-2016 03:49 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

The primary issue with immigration is and always will be assimilation. Multiculturalism that liberals are always bleating on about is the antithesis of assimilation.

You can't have it both ways, it's impossible.

It's even debatable whether or not immigration works in the long run if the appearance and culture of the people immigrating is extremely different. I'm speaking of this from the point of view of someone born from very recent immigrants myself. I'm a firm believer that homogenous societies still function better overall and last longer. The monster of identity politics and the wacky internal turmoil of many minorities in anglo countries is just a reminder that multiculturalism is extremely flawed and is damaging for both the host culture and the people immigrating into it.

You definitely can't assimilate masses from a third world foreign shithole especially when they form their own little medieval style enclaves and enact their 12th century tribal primitive laws. Their entire mindset is undeveloped and past the point of assimilation to begin with. Immigration as a concept can function as a flawed policy when it's done at the minimum but when there is zero respect for the host culture and people then it becomes an absolute disaster.

Assimilation requires the numbers of migrants and the rate of their entry into a host nation to be low.

Neither is the case.

Moreover, there is an inverse exponential process as new high numbers of migrants arriving at high rates are settling into areas where the native population is very low.

What is there left for these new arrivals to integrate to? The middle classes in the BBC can write them into soap opera scripts to try and encourage integration but with satellite tv and the internet, new migrants are watching the media from their countries of origins.

Complete assimilation is impossible now unless the host cultures give up their social mores and replace them with a globalised goo from which the most masculine and confident and assertive culture will rise from primeval swamp.

Study after study has found that multiculturalism destroys civic participation rates as the sense of community and belonging is shattered.

I agree it's past the point of no return when a non native population reaches a tipping point. Assimilation becomes impossible. That's why liberals keep banging on the mutilcultural bongos. Even deep down the most ivory tower of the lot know that true assimilation is impossible. Most of the ivory tower liberal types don't even live near minorities to begin with. This is true even in San Francisco and NYC the most "multicultural" of U.S. cities.

That's why the term "cosmopolitan" to me indicates a city has already been poisoned. Cosmo means the multicultural degeneration has already taken root. It doesn't matter if that city is in Asia or Europe. Once it becomes "cosmopolitan" it means the local population's culture does not hold sway in parts of the city and standard of living goes down hill while cost of living and class/race stratification goes way up.

It leads to immense disatisfaction in the long run where the only benefactors to this are the elites who profiteer and live in a bubble.

People pointing to London's prosperity also need to look at how real estate is divided in "cosmo" cities. There are a shitload of elites who love dense populations because they can extract more rents from vast tracts of commercial and residential land and property they own. Think about what makes land valuable. A dense urban population gives some value to land. Foreign money boosts the value. You can artificially inflate real estate by cramming as many people into an area as possible and pushing all business centers into one area. Then you encourage wealthy elite and upper class from foreign nations to push in money too.

It's a real estate ponzi scheme. The banks prosper. Developers prosper. The elites prosper. The middle class loses because cost of living shoots way up while wages stagnate because labor becomes an endless supply.

[BlueOcean]

(01-26-2016 01:25 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(01-26-2016 01:02 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

This argument sounds eerily similar to the "Christians did bad things in the past so Islam is fine" argument.

Let's get one thing absolutely, abundantly clear. The British working class of the post-war 1950s may have been poor. They may have been ill-educted. They may have been ignorant by today's standards.

But they were proud, fiercely patriotic people who rebuilt their communities and cities after the visits from our German friends in the sky.

They were people who looked after their homes and their surroundings to the best of their abilities and who were proud of their communities and neighbourhoods.

These were the people that contributed their fathers and sons by the millions to die for their country in the Great War and WW2.

Let alone inaccurate, to call where they lived slums is downright unfair and rude.


Comparing them to the filthy Pakistani peasants that have ghettoised our cities now, in the 21st Century, with all that the modern world has to offer, is offensive.

I'm not doubting their patriotism. While England did bad things in the past doesn't mean they should be punished, especially the working class who had little decision making powers.

But London has always been grimy, patriotic or not.

I was growing up in London the 90s and it was grimy back then too. And as a mixed race kid, I chased tons of Indian poon because it was easy (that was my thing, Indian girls in my area were plentiful and down to fuck). I never had too many issues with the Indian girls, or my Indian friends, most of their parents were very hard working, lived in nice houses, I didn't know any that were on the dole, I even remember them facing discrimination in the business world. So many of them started their own little businesses, or became doctors or lawyers, professions where pure brains and hard work beat connections that they didn't have (yet).

In many ways I got my work ethic from them, work hard, study, persevere, and eventually things will come around. My experience with Somalis was me getting a beatdown, and running home from school because I was being chased for picking on one of them. Or a knife being pulled to my throat on the Wembley to Harrow Tube Line, but that's just kids being kids. Kids gotta grow up.

I guess I'm reminiscing more than critiquing.

London is grimy, can't say I miss it.

You said you were mixed-race. Are you mixed black Caribbean-white?

[Rutting Elephant]

London (as some describe it in this thread) looks to be a victim of an attempt to recreate a Singapore -style population pyramid scheme on a continental scale.

Quote:

Singapore may well serve as a case study for what happens when leaders try to offset slowing economic growth with immigration and increased birth rates.

The human-pyramid scheme works like this: Population growth, either through births or immigration, boosts demand for goods and services, increases borrowing, boosts tax revenue and adds to corporate profits. Everything seems grand and leaders take a bow. It’s a bubble, though, and it eventually bursts when population growth stalls. Incomes top out, high debt crushes consumption and investment, the need for public assistance rises, environmental degradation increases and angry people take to the streets.

As households are left to pick up the tab once Ponzi demography runs its course, government leaders issue dire warnings about economic decline if the flow of fresh talent stops.

[WalterBlack]

I’m a UK born and raised person from an immigrant background (Indian), currently living in the US. I lived in London for many years, some of my brothers live in London and I was last there a month ago.

The whole article is disingenuous – it’s the equivalent of an article about Los Angeles bringing up shitholes likes east LA or Macarthur Park, whilst ignoring the gentrification of areas like downtown LA over the last few years.

Assimilation does work to an extent, but even I recognised years ago that too many immigrants in an area is a bad thing. I remember talking to a guy in India who had visited Southall in west London which is a heavily Indian area. He said “You guys have ruined England, you have made it like India!”. I’d rather live in a mixed area than an area which is all one race.

This stuff about London being in decline is frankly bullshit. It’s been gentrifying for years and real estate prices have shot up. I remember Kings Cross station area in the 1990s, it was a red light district shithole drug dealers and prostitutes approaching people when it got dark. Now King Cross station is very nice, with a train that goes straight to Paris. Google is planning to build a $1BN office there.

I would love to be back in London, but it’s a bit out of my price range right now – Los Angeles is cheaper!

Are you guys aware that some of the wealthiest people in London are immigrants? A lot of them have made a killing in the real estate market over the last 20 years and they rent out properties to Eastern Europeans. Just as Mexicans do a lot of the dirty work in Los Angeles, a lot of the same stuff is done in UK by white Eastern Europeans. When I tell that fact to Americans they find it mind blowing.

I grew up on a street which was mostly Indian with a strong family atmosphere. There were kids playing football in the streets and we all knew each other. Many of my relatives lived walking distance away – we used to keep our back doors unlocked during the day and people could walk in and out of each other’s houses. The houses were small terraced houses and over the years a lot of the Indian families moved to bigger houses on the other side of town. They rented out their houses to people who are basically trash, sell drugs, and make it unsafe for younger kids to go outside. Basically the area has been turned into a shithole…and where are these people from? Eastern Europe!

There are Muslim ghettos in London, but if the people there weren't Muslim they would be something else. There’s always been ghettos of foreigners in London. Brick Lane in East London used to be Jewish, now it’s Bangladeshi. Sooner or later the Bangladeshis will move on and other people will come in. That’s how it’s always been. The street I grew up in was mostly Indian and Italian, now it’s becoming Polish and Romanian.

I do agree with some posters in that some of what made London “London” (e.g. Cockneys) has been lost, but a lot of the “native” Londoners got the fuck out of London as soon as they saw some brown or black faces. If they stuck around things may have been different, but when the immigrants came in and a lot of the whites moved out (1960s to 1980s), a lot of London was a dump so they didn’t need much motivation to leave. The Broadway in Southall had only one Indian store in the 1960s, but now the whole area is Indian – but now there’s Polish and Somalis in the area too.

This is how assimilated I am – last week me, a British Indian took an Indonesian Chinese woman to a British pub so that she could sample British food. She ate sausage rolls and Cornish Pastie for the first time in her life.

[WarMachine]

People wrongly associate "immigration" with poverty. It's true about the cockney aspect in London, which was part of the landscape, but you'd need to do is travel 5 miles out of London to hear a version of it.

Whatever city and whatever people will be at the bottom of the food chain.

Too much of one people can make it uncomfortable for the people already there, its just human nature. But it's funny how when they are perceived to have money/well off, then these feelings often subside in some people. Then they are viewed as "good for the economy"

This is really about class.

[WarMachine]

(01-25-2016 02:52 PM)262 Wrote:  

Assuming the status quo remains (pick your evil - immigrants, socialism or capitalism [apparently], feminism, etc) -

What can you do to improve your lot in life right now?

^^This is really what the focus should be. Talk of declines and such things are a distraction.

[Moma]

I like to hear from real heads from the turf like Walter Black, Crash Bang and FrenchCorp. Keep up the good work, lads.

[Krieg]

(01-26-2016 09:38 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

I’m a UK born and raised person from an immigrant background (Indian), currently living in the US. I lived in London for many years, some of my brothers live in London and I was last there a month ago.

The whole article is disingenuous – it’s the equivalent of an article about Los Angeles bringing up shitholes likes east LA or Macarthur Park, whilst ignoring the gentrification of areas like downtown LA over the last few years.

Assimilation does work to an extent, but even I recognised years ago that too many immigrants in an area is a bad thing. I remember talking to a guy in India who had visited Southall in west London which is a heavily Indian area. He said “You guys have ruined England, you have made it like India!”. I’d rather live in a mixed area than an area which is all one race.



Are you guys aware that some of the wealthiest people in London are immigrants? A lot of them have made a killing in the real estate market over the last 20 years and they rent out properties to Eastern Europeans. Just as Mexicans do a lot of the dirty work in Los Angeles, a lot of the same stuff is done in UK by white Eastern Europeans. When I tell that fact to Americans they find it mind blowing.

I grew up on a street which was mostly Indian with a strong family atmosphere. There were kids playing football in the streets and we all knew each other. Many of my relatives lived walking distance away – we used to keep our back doors unlocked during the day and people could walk in and out of each other’s houses. The houses were small terraced houses and over the years a lot of the Indian families moved to bigger houses on the other side of town. They rented out their houses to people who are basically trash, sell drugs, and make it unsafe for younger kids to go outside. Basically the area has been turned into a shithole…and where are these people from? Eastern Europe!


I do agree with some posters in that some of what made London “London” (e.g. Cockneys) has been lost, but a lot of the “native” Londoners got the fuck out of London as soon as they saw some brown or black faces. If they stuck around things may have been different, but when the immigrants came in and a lot of the whites moved out (1960s to 1980s), a lot of London was a dump so they didn’t need much motivation to leave. The Broadway in Southall had only one Indian store in the 1960s, but now the whole area is Indian – but now there’s Polish and Somalis in the area too.

This is how assimilated I am – last week me, a British Indian took an Indonesian Chinese woman to a British pub so that she could sample British food. She ate sausage rolls and Cornish Pastie for the first time in her life.

What a load of bullshit.

Indian boroughs are the crappiest parts of London. Wembley e.g. They might be relatively safer then muslim areas but whites do not want to live there,for obvious reasons.

Highest proportion of Poles in London live in South West-traditionally destinations of "white flight".Compare prices in Hounslow or Wembley to prices in SW or Ealing (borough with one of the highest number of Polish speakers in London).

Also,Poles don't do the "shittiest" jobs.They mostly work in construction,a well paid and respected profession. They don' t serve food and don't run corner shops like 99% of Indians do.

With regards to Romanian gypsies- they are not white "Europeans", they are originally from Northern India and Roma language (not Romanian) is similar to Hindi.

[AntiMediocrity]

A lot of discussion here, I'm late to the party so I skipped to the last page I'm afraid.

I lived in the West Midlands for 28 years, trains to London from my old town are almost direct and I've had every Tom, Dick and Harry tell me I should go because "It's the capital of your home country". I've NEVER been tempted. I had invites; "no thank you". You'd have to pay me 5000 Złoty before I even considered it.

To me a capital city is synonymous with overcrowding, theft, inescapable tourists, litter, pollution, not a mountain or national park in sight (London is a definitive example of this), exorbitant prices, con artists, capitalism, consumerism, branded marketing, materialistic women, essentially the worst attributes of the human condition amalgamated into one place.

I wouldn't have gone before immigration and I certainly wouldn't go now. I read a lot of guys saying that women are hotter in London than other cities...well there's less native English girls so of course girls are hotter. If you want these kinds of girls, go to another country- It'll probably be a lot cheaper.

[Constitution45]

Hmm seeing areas like Newham, Tower Hamlets, Lewisham in London, where this is a majority non white population, doesn't really surprise me. London has been like that for a while now. its mostly when you see towns in the home counties or smaller cities and towns, becoming like that, when it is truly setting a mile stone for mass immigration. Quite funny a lot of white cockneys or South Londoners often joke about how they are being pushed out, and how in five years time they will all being living on an island in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. As now they are starting to leave even the London suburbs or home counties and going further abroad.

As for crime and other social/political problems in London, I know quite extensively about this due to professional experience. Make no mistake about it, London can be a very dangerous city. Homicide rates are quite low which I could never get my head around. But there are many serious crime groups, from black/muslim street gangs, to organised turkish/kurdish mafia, the list is really endless and gets quite tedious when talking about it. A lot of teenagers in these areas, seriously don't care. They will quite happily stab a policeman for no real apparent reason, or kill another teenager over a ten pound debt. I mean seriously this is quite common in a lot of areas.

The police are in many weak but very flexible and are able to adapt around dealing with these new threats. Also doctors and paramedics are well trained now when dealing with shootings and stabbing victims, so they save a lot lives.

In terms of areas, the most violent places tend to be black majority areas, second place comes asian muslim areas. Much like in America, the police do really walk on egg shells. Politicians, activists and the media, criticize stop and search and try to push the notion of 'policing by consent'. But this just leads to police being restricted when dealing with gang and drug crime.

It is frustrating seeing how after well known gangsters get shot in London, that there are automatic calls to arrest the armed police officer in question, regardless of the facts. The media and SJW types are trying to imitate the reaction to 'police brutality' in America, even though the situation is very different.

I generally advise people against moving to London. Unless you have substantial capital and contacts already. Or you are perhaps wishing to study there for a masters or some equivalent. Government jobs in London are pretty decent, whether this be in the Army, emergency services; because that experience cannot be compared to anywhere else in the U.K, or even Western Europe for that matter.

[Pride male]

So the English are just fiddling while London burns?

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

More like tribbing.

[Samseau]

Quote:

Homicide rates are quite low which I could never get my head around.

Because they aren't reported/recorded.

[WalterBlack]

(02-14-2016 07:08 AM)Krieg Wrote:  

What a load of bullshit.

Indian boroughs are the crappiest parts of London. Wembley e.g. They might be relatively safer then muslim areas but whites do not want to live there,for obvious reasons.

Highest proportion of Poles in London live in South West-traditionally destinations of "white flight".Compare prices in Hounslow or Wembley to prices in SW or Ealing (borough with one of the highest number of Polish speakers in London).

Also,Poles don't do the "shittiest" jobs.They mostly work in construction,a well paid and respected profession. They don' t serve food and don't run corner shops like 99% of Indians do.

With regards to Romanian gypsies- they are not white "Europeans", they are originally from Northern India and Roma language (not Romanian) is similar to Hindi.

The heavily Indian areas are not shitholes, they’ve all gentrified over time. Most of London was a shithole until the 90s. I know somebody who bought a terraced house in Southall for USD $1M last year . If it was a shit hole, would it cost that much?

That map is a gross oversimplification of London. There’s a lot of other communities which are not on the map e.g. a lot of north London is Jewish. I lived in a Jewish area for a couple of years.

Are you aware that a lot of Indians don’t live in mostly Indian parts of London? I never have.

Ealing was going up in value in the late 90s, way before any Poles arrived.

Regarding Polish work, well a lot of them do blue collar work, they’re not exactly amongst the top earners in UK. Indians are amongst the richest communities in UK.

Everything in the UK comes back to class, not race.

[rudebwoy]

London does not have crazy murder rates that most US cities have. What do you expect in a country where you can buy a gun at a department store.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-30577385

The cockneys moved out of East London to Essex many years ago, no one forced them out. They were able to buy better and bigger homes in places like Basildon etc. So please know what you are talking about before you make silly comments.

Ealing was "posh" way before the Poles got there, the average pole can't afford a home in Ealing.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-...sortType=1

[johnfortunebg]

Quote:

The cockneys moved out of East London to Essex many years ago, no one forced them out

'Changing demographics' is not exactly 'forcing out' but plays a significant role. Besides not wanting to live next door to non-whites, the reason to be able to afford bigger homes outside London is partly pre-existing population density, partly its deterioration via mass migration. What do you think is raising housing prices in England, in particularly London?

[rudebwoy]

^ The Mega-rich from all over the world are forcing up the house prices in London.

I know many people who rent their homes and flats out in London, the one couple lives in a nice house in France and the other guy spends alot of time in Asia.

I also know many people who took advantage of the various government schemes, such as being able to buy your council flat at a reduced rate. Then flipping the property and buying a nice house outside of London.

So as you can see, it is a little more complicated than blaming the immigrants.

[johnfortunebg]

(02-16-2016 04:04 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

So as you can see, it is a little more complicated than blaming the immigrants.

It may be more complicated than that but the immigrants are a factor, probably the biggest one.
Also, the "Mega-rich" are also immigrants so your "argument" using them as some sort of counter-factor is mute.
Your anecdotes are examples of people using opportunities of the housing shortage to attain advantage, not a reason for the shortage itself. Also mute and not on point.

[WalterBlack]

(02-16-2016 03:57 PM)johnfortunebg Wrote:  

Quote:

The cockneys moved out of East London to Essex many years ago, no one forced them out

'Changing demographics' is not exactly 'forcing out' but plays a significant role. Besides not wanting to live next door to non-whites, the reason to be able to afford bigger homes outside London is partly pre-existing population density, partly its deterioration via mass migration. What do you think is raising housing prices in England, in particularly London?

Another reason is that a lot of foreigners, especially Chinese buy property to sell on later. They don't even rent out the flats, they hold onto them and then sell them on. A lot of new London developments are not even sold to UK citizens - they are sold in Asia.

So now you have lot of flats which are sitting empty, that are not even available to rent - this reduces the amount of housing available and increases prices.

[rudebwoy]

(02-16-2016 04:32 PM)johnfortunebg Wrote:  

(02-16-2016 04:04 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

So as you can see, it is a little more complicated than blaming the immigrants.

It may be more complicated than that but the immigrants are a factor, probably the biggest one.
Also, the "Mega-rich" are also immigrants so your "argument" using them as some sort of counter-factor is mute.
Your anecdotes are examples of people using opportunities of the housing shortage to attain advantage, not a reason for the shortage itself. Also mute and not on point.

Yes, immigrants are a big factor.

Whether it be the those West Indians from the 50/60s or the hordes of East Europeans that have come in more recent years.

Simple supply and demand, which as you know always increases the prices.

[tynamite]

When my parents in their 20s, anyone could get a council house for free. My mother moved out of her parents house at 18, and the government just gave her a three bedroom house house just like that, even though she already had a place to stay. Now if you want a council house or supported accommodation, you'll be waiting over 25 years, unless you're homeless, have a mental illness or be a rapefugee. The British government has empty council properties and supported accommodation all the time. It's a shame all the immigrants are stealing it from the people who need it the most.