My mind has been on overdrive lately thinking about various game topics. I thought it may help to write them out and perhaps elicit some intellectual discussions as a result. As I get older, I have noticed a tendency to want to focus more on the macro side of things (overall picture/theory) than the micro side that I want to believe I have down pat in some sense (cold approaching, what to say when, how to touch, and so on).
Initially, I had three separate topics to provide an analysis of, but after seeing how long the first one came out to be I decided to just handle this one for now. All three dealt with with how to handle or treat girls on different points of a certain scale. This post discusses the bangable/cute girl [6-8] v. an objectively beautiful/hot girl [legitimate 9, more on that later].
Definitions:
Initially we should define the two points on this specific spectrum. First you have the standard bangable or cute to very cute girl. We can leave out the fat and ugly girls obviously, and those that you would have sex with (even repeatedly) but would rather not be seen out with. The girls referenced here fall into the you wouldn't mind if you dated them for a while or even seriously. Essentially, what you would find as comprising 90-98% of the girlfriends of decent men.
The second point on the scale is what I referred to as a legitimate 9. When I say this, I mean more objectively than subjectively. For example, strangers go out of the way to tell you how hot she is. Not your buddies, not your buddies' girlfriends, not your family. People you have never met feel it is necessary to make their first words to you a stated obvious of her aesthetics. Or she is a model for a known agency (i.e. Ford), though not all models of course fall into the 9 range. Or you can't stop staring at her face and wondering how genes can form so correctly in a random occurrence that is a sperm and egg uniting. You get my drift.
And these girls are rare. I personally have found people are too lenient in assigning a girl a 9 status. I'll be the first to admit I throw in a lot of girls in the 6-7 range, but I'm pretty stringent on the 9. I've probably gone out with hundreds of girls at this point of my life. Only three fit this bill, and two are arguable. My closest friend and Hello...Russia partner, I've seen two girls fit this bill for him. We all talk about "hot" girls and there are plenty, but this is the upper echelon of beauty.
So now that this is defined, how do you treat them? How do you approach going on that first, second and third date? Do you - to shortcut to the real question - treat the two points on the scale as the same or differently?
Theory 1 - Treat them all the same:
Treat all girls the same, regardless of looks. At least that's what I take most people feel. Esteemed writer delicioustacos writes:
This was my original thought process. There is no doubt some very good points in the above words of wisdom, even if it is geared for "newbies." In most cases a lot of the above applies, but in those certain scenarios where you do have an exceptionally beautiful girl I'm not so sure anymore. I took this approach with one of the 3 I mentioned above, and it didn't work. I tried to treat her like a normal girl. Looking back, she was not a normal girl in the sense that the type of life she led did not give her the same experiences as 99.999% of women out there.
Trust me, I know the level of simp out there. How guys do anything sometimes for even a 6. How Zuckerberg married an ugly asian chick. Yes, hot girls and even cute girls and sadly sometimes the borderline 5s and 6s get special treatment. But even in my limited dealings with these 3 girls, there is another level. Seinfeld has a great scene which attempts to explain it:
Essentially, and similar to the elite rich of the world, rules either don't apply or apply very differently. That girl I allude to I took to the same restaurant/bar I had previously taken about 10-15 other girls. With the same two bartenders that are always there. They went out of their way to check on this girl numerous times throughout the night and engage in her conversation. They did this exactly zero times before.
The other girls, I've had people walk up to me and tell me how beautiful she is during the date (while she was away from me). On both occasions, I had a girl that would fall under the 7-8 category either come talk to me out of nowhere or comment on her beauty. That doesn't happen when I'm out with just a cute girl.
So what is the cumulative effect of this beauty on the girl? I think, and again I am not sold on my own position yet, that they need to be handled differently. They likely have been given ridiculous proposals by men that are quite rich perhaps even famous. They are stared at ALL the time. And not in the sense that a 7 gets a whistle and a stare from a construction worker. I refer to men, women, rich, poor, baristas and barristers not being able to look away. This has to have an effect and it may be something that we as men cannot understand unless you are famous.
Theory 2 - Treat them differently:
MikeCF writes:
I think there is some real genius and/or straight talk - depending on how you look at it - in this post. If we can step into the world of mathematics for a second, per this post above, which I agree with more and more as my life matures, the magnitude of pulling one point higher in the scale increases tenfold. So to pull a 7 who we all agree is a cute girl, is one hundred times easier than pulling the 9s I'm referring to in this post. Obviously I know there are exceptions to every rule, and perhaps one hundred is a large multiplier but stand back and think about it for a second. How many guys do you see with 7s? You see it all the time. But how many guys do you see with an actual legit 9? How many times do you see a guy making out with a legit 9 at a bar? Taking a legit 9 home from a club? The 100 multiplier does not seem too far fetched anymore.
Which circles back to the first point of that post. Game is not going to get you 9s, but it will get you a 6 or a 7. So right there, if you agree with that point, then inherently you have to agree that they must be treated differently. I do want to pause for a second and point out that I am not suggesting or implying in any way to put the 9 on a pedestal - but just to recognize that given her beauty, she is accustomed to a certain reality that you have to account for. How so, I haven't figured out yet completely.
Theory 3 - Treatment does not matter:
The final theory is your specific day to day actions will not matter. This follows the theory of "lifestyle" game if you will. The 9s will get Vicky Christina Barcelona offers on a consistent basis - or at least more consistent basis - than their 7 and 8 counterparts. A microcosmic view into this dynamic can be seen in Russia, where you have the tables of hotties "claimed" by the high power men there. Flats and cars paid for, etc. Domestically, you see it with some celebrities though not all.
So what you do or say has no effect, but rather who you are. You are either filthy rich, or famous. Or absurdly good-looking. Or in the modeling scene, or DJ scene, or be Dan Bilzerian (assuming you peg his girls as 9s in the first place). Obviously you need semblance of game not to blow an opportunity once you have it, but the initial securing of the opportunity won't exist otherwise.
The other aspect of this is pure luck, where again treatment does not matter. The only 9 I know of being confirmed banged was my buddy with a Russian model. She was visiting NY on a modeling gig, was walking outside the bar we were in when a homeless guy approached her for money and she got scared and ran inside. She was an aberration in a bar filled entirely with 6s and 7s that we had also just walked in to and were about to leave. I happened to be with my own Russian girl who chatted her up and they were from the same city in Russia. Her friends had all ditched her and she was bored and went for a walk. In the end she came home with us and my buddy banged her, but could not get her out again after that night.
Conclusion:
With girl 1, I tried Theory 1 and it didn't work.
With girl 2, I tried Theory 2 on the first date and it went well. I reverted back to Theory 1 for the second date and then it stopped working.
With girl 3, it is ongoing (and as you astute gentlemen may have guessed the impetus for my penning this thread![[Image: wink.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/wink.gif)
). I'm going with Theory 2 for now.
The key in my opinion is recognizing the level of girl I am referring to. If you combine my buddy and I's years of approaching and dating girls, you are talking about a combined 5 girls over 14 years. Accordingly, I see this more as theory than actual practice because of the scarcity of these girls in general.
Nevertheless my nature as a lawyer lends itself to my love of intellectual debate. Or perhaps I'm wrong and 9s are being banged and dated all around town and I just am left out. Either way I'm open to being convinced. For now I'm going with Theory 2 while recognizing the truth may lie within Theory 3. All thoughts and opinions are welcome.
Initially, I had three separate topics to provide an analysis of, but after seeing how long the first one came out to be I decided to just handle this one for now. All three dealt with with how to handle or treat girls on different points of a certain scale. This post discusses the bangable/cute girl [6-8] v. an objectively beautiful/hot girl [legitimate 9, more on that later].
Definitions:
Initially we should define the two points on this specific spectrum. First you have the standard bangable or cute to very cute girl. We can leave out the fat and ugly girls obviously, and those that you would have sex with (even repeatedly) but would rather not be seen out with. The girls referenced here fall into the you wouldn't mind if you dated them for a while or even seriously. Essentially, what you would find as comprising 90-98% of the girlfriends of decent men.
The second point on the scale is what I referred to as a legitimate 9. When I say this, I mean more objectively than subjectively. For example, strangers go out of the way to tell you how hot she is. Not your buddies, not your buddies' girlfriends, not your family. People you have never met feel it is necessary to make their first words to you a stated obvious of her aesthetics. Or she is a model for a known agency (i.e. Ford), though not all models of course fall into the 9 range. Or you can't stop staring at her face and wondering how genes can form so correctly in a random occurrence that is a sperm and egg uniting. You get my drift.
And these girls are rare. I personally have found people are too lenient in assigning a girl a 9 status. I'll be the first to admit I throw in a lot of girls in the 6-7 range, but I'm pretty stringent on the 9. I've probably gone out with hundreds of girls at this point of my life. Only three fit this bill, and two are arguable. My closest friend and Hello...Russia partner, I've seen two girls fit this bill for him. We all talk about "hot" girls and there are plenty, but this is the upper echelon of beauty.
So now that this is defined, how do you treat them? How do you approach going on that first, second and third date? Do you - to shortcut to the real question - treat the two points on the scale as the same or differently?
Theory 1 - Treat them all the same:
Treat all girls the same, regardless of looks. At least that's what I take most people feel. Esteemed writer delicioustacos writes:
Quote:Quote:
So much of the "new game" can just be summed up by: "treat her like a fattie."
Text her when you want to see her. Text her "come over." "Bring the movies." Make out and then push her head toward your cock. Don't call her for days. Or text, I guess. No one calls anymore. Don't text her for days. And when you do, it's short notice. "Come over." Don't take her out in public. Don't shower before she comes over. Don't buy presents and flowers and blah blah blah... don't make a big deal out of flattering her; when you meet her, be very direct. Like the fat chick in a bar. "Come home with me." "Come out back with me." Laugh if she says something funny and don't laugh if she doesn't say something funny. Listen if she says something interesting and brush her off if she doesn't. She wants to go somewhere, she drives. You drink. When your friends ask about her-- who is this girl you're spending all this time with, be like... eh, it's nothing. A girl who comes over.
The way you deal with fat chicks is basically the way you deal with people when you're honest. Terse. Mercenary. Matter of fact. "Come out back with me" means "come suck my dick next to a dumpster." You say this to a fat chick because you know she knows exactly what you mean, and she might say yes, and if she's offended, who gives a fuck. But this should be your attitude toward all women. She knows what you mean, she might say yes, and if she doesn't, who gives a fuck. Too much of game is planning a heist like you're stealing the Hope Diamond: neg's and IOI's and A1 and C3 and blah blah blah, spraying dust on the laser beams so you can tumble around them and then crack the safe with a stethoscope. The way you treat fat chicks is like you don't give a fuck, which is as "alpha" as you can possibly be.
The point is, you already have a model of behavior for how you should be treating all women, but you are only using it on unattractive women. You are ironically being more honest and open and real with women you supposedly hold in contempt than ones you supposedly value. And the reality is, they are all "fat chicks." They are fat chicks physically after you've fucked them ten times and get bored. They are fat chicks mentally who couldn't make a room full of people laugh if they had to save their family from getting set on fire. If you had to marry these hot chicks you would kill yourself unless you're just that into validation from your friends and having dudes hit on your girl. There is something wrong with all of them. Deeply wrong. The hottest chick in the world will slowly earn contempt far worse than a fat chick gets right away. Treat them like they honestly are to you, and admit that that's what they are. Fat chicks, broken chicks, unfunny chicks, boring chicks. Dishonest chicks. Game playing chicks. Attention whores. Whatever. Fat of the soul is far worse than fat of the gunt.
Take this model as far as you can go. When you walk in a room, don't notice them. Or brush your eyes over them like a dude who hasn't beat off in five days and is looking at the fattie like a coyote looks at a trash can-- easy meat. Don't be mean, don't be cruel-- when are you actually cruel to fat chicks? If you are, you're an asshole. You don't even *notice* fat chicks. Until they get in your face, they are invisible to you. Until you need them for something. And then you ask them for it directly. And then when you are engaged with them you are maddeningly aloof and distant because you just don't give that much of a fuck, and they text you every god damn day with "dinner 2nite?" Doubtless at some hideous buffet out of Heironymous Bosch. But the way you are with fat chicks is alpha. Not fake alpha, real alpha. The person with something the other person needs, and power over the situation.
Easier said than done, I know. You see a really cute girl and your adrenal gland fires off and gives you the same reaction you have when you've just been in a car accident. But learn to see women the way they really are. They are nothing special. There is only one woman, different faces. And that one woman, sadly, is an insecure, cruel and broken bore. A fat chick in her heart. You will not be happy living with this realization. But you will tear up more ass than a mule tannery. And that's what matters. Right?
This was my original thought process. There is no doubt some very good points in the above words of wisdom, even if it is geared for "newbies." In most cases a lot of the above applies, but in those certain scenarios where you do have an exceptionally beautiful girl I'm not so sure anymore. I took this approach with one of the 3 I mentioned above, and it didn't work. I tried to treat her like a normal girl. Looking back, she was not a normal girl in the sense that the type of life she led did not give her the same experiences as 99.999% of women out there.
Trust me, I know the level of simp out there. How guys do anything sometimes for even a 6. How Zuckerberg married an ugly asian chick. Yes, hot girls and even cute girls and sadly sometimes the borderline 5s and 6s get special treatment. But even in my limited dealings with these 3 girls, there is another level. Seinfeld has a great scene which attempts to explain it:
Essentially, and similar to the elite rich of the world, rules either don't apply or apply very differently. That girl I allude to I took to the same restaurant/bar I had previously taken about 10-15 other girls. With the same two bartenders that are always there. They went out of their way to check on this girl numerous times throughout the night and engage in her conversation. They did this exactly zero times before.
The other girls, I've had people walk up to me and tell me how beautiful she is during the date (while she was away from me). On both occasions, I had a girl that would fall under the 7-8 category either come talk to me out of nowhere or comment on her beauty. That doesn't happen when I'm out with just a cute girl.
So what is the cumulative effect of this beauty on the girl? I think, and again I am not sold on my own position yet, that they need to be handled differently. They likely have been given ridiculous proposals by men that are quite rich perhaps even famous. They are stared at ALL the time. And not in the sense that a 7 gets a whistle and a stare from a construction worker. I refer to men, women, rich, poor, baristas and barristers not being able to look away. This has to have an effect and it may be something that we as men cannot understand unless you are famous.
Theory 2 - Treat them differently:
MikeCF writes:
Quote:Quote:
Game isn't going to get you 9's.
If it did, where are the pictures?
HUNDREDS of "PUA's" and "pick-up coaches" and thousands of "gamers."
Where are all these dorky, short, poor guys with 9's?
The effort in getting a 6, 7, 8, and 9 is exponential.
Game alone will get you a 6 and some 7's.
That's why some guys who started running conventional game ultimately disagree with other guys.
I'm the first to admit that game is GREAT for pulling 6's and 7's.
Yet I'm also the first to admit that game is NOT going to get you many 8's and will probably never get you a 9.
So am I anti-game? No. I'm just anti-unrealistic expectations.
An 8 is 100 times harder than pulling a 6, and 10 times harder than pulling a 7.
Is a "gamer" with "game" more interesting and entertaining than a guy with a villa and who flies first class or by private jet?
Because that's the choice 8's (and especially 9's) are presented with.
Even guys with swagger and confidence will tell you that getting with 9's are rare.
To pull 9's, you need lots of drugs and money - and you'd better be willing to spread both around.
I think there is some real genius and/or straight talk - depending on how you look at it - in this post. If we can step into the world of mathematics for a second, per this post above, which I agree with more and more as my life matures, the magnitude of pulling one point higher in the scale increases tenfold. So to pull a 7 who we all agree is a cute girl, is one hundred times easier than pulling the 9s I'm referring to in this post. Obviously I know there are exceptions to every rule, and perhaps one hundred is a large multiplier but stand back and think about it for a second. How many guys do you see with 7s? You see it all the time. But how many guys do you see with an actual legit 9? How many times do you see a guy making out with a legit 9 at a bar? Taking a legit 9 home from a club? The 100 multiplier does not seem too far fetched anymore.
Which circles back to the first point of that post. Game is not going to get you 9s, but it will get you a 6 or a 7. So right there, if you agree with that point, then inherently you have to agree that they must be treated differently. I do want to pause for a second and point out that I am not suggesting or implying in any way to put the 9 on a pedestal - but just to recognize that given her beauty, she is accustomed to a certain reality that you have to account for. How so, I haven't figured out yet completely.
Theory 3 - Treatment does not matter:
The final theory is your specific day to day actions will not matter. This follows the theory of "lifestyle" game if you will. The 9s will get Vicky Christina Barcelona offers on a consistent basis - or at least more consistent basis - than their 7 and 8 counterparts. A microcosmic view into this dynamic can be seen in Russia, where you have the tables of hotties "claimed" by the high power men there. Flats and cars paid for, etc. Domestically, you see it with some celebrities though not all.
So what you do or say has no effect, but rather who you are. You are either filthy rich, or famous. Or absurdly good-looking. Or in the modeling scene, or DJ scene, or be Dan Bilzerian (assuming you peg his girls as 9s in the first place). Obviously you need semblance of game not to blow an opportunity once you have it, but the initial securing of the opportunity won't exist otherwise.
The other aspect of this is pure luck, where again treatment does not matter. The only 9 I know of being confirmed banged was my buddy with a Russian model. She was visiting NY on a modeling gig, was walking outside the bar we were in when a homeless guy approached her for money and she got scared and ran inside. She was an aberration in a bar filled entirely with 6s and 7s that we had also just walked in to and were about to leave. I happened to be with my own Russian girl who chatted her up and they were from the same city in Russia. Her friends had all ditched her and she was bored and went for a walk. In the end she came home with us and my buddy banged her, but could not get her out again after that night.
Conclusion:
With girl 1, I tried Theory 1 and it didn't work.
With girl 2, I tried Theory 2 on the first date and it went well. I reverted back to Theory 1 for the second date and then it stopped working.
With girl 3, it is ongoing (and as you astute gentlemen may have guessed the impetus for my penning this thread
). I'm going with Theory 2 for now.The key in my opinion is recognizing the level of girl I am referring to. If you combine my buddy and I's years of approaching and dating girls, you are talking about a combined 5 girls over 14 years. Accordingly, I see this more as theory than actual practice because of the scarcity of these girls in general.
Nevertheless my nature as a lawyer lends itself to my love of intellectual debate. Or perhaps I'm wrong and 9s are being banged and dated all around town and I just am left out. Either way I'm open to being convinced. For now I'm going with Theory 2 while recognizing the truth may lie within Theory 3. All thoughts and opinions are welcome.
![[Image: lol.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/lol.gif)
But anyway that is actually irrelevant to the discussion here.
