[mntrsx]

I wonder if ultimatum was the best choice but did it anyway, time will tell.
By the way I keep gaming in Ukraine.

[The Nude Matador]

(11-03-2015 09:38 AM)mntrsx Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 08:31 AM)The Nude Matador Wrote:  

(11-03-2015 07:49 AM)mntrsx Wrote:  

I'm in my thirties and it's hard to end this, all these years thrown into garbage. I just don't want to regret my decision in the future, she could be the perfect wife and mother of my future children. She is exactly how I like it in all the other areas like cooking etc. except this non-sense with the coworker.

You're in your peak years. You've already set down your terms to her, though maybe not as firmly as I would have, so you have to keep that frame. This situation is going to get worse, not better, it won't peter out on its own.

Best case, she smells the smoke and finally does what is wrong. "Worst" case, you're free.

Should I tell her that I want to break up without explaining too much? I tried to be gentle till now

(11-03-2015 09:32 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

I'm going to propose some advice contrary to the other posters

"Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly"

I do not care about beta orbiters, but I do care when someone who knows who i am is actively trying to get a whiff of my girls pussy. I was the same way in my day, if I knew a girl had a 'boyfriend' that was just a nameless, faceless entity I was not deterred from my pursuit. But if I had met the guy, and shook his hand and at least acknowledged his presence I knew was stepping in riskier territory by continuing my quest for the bang.

You must insert yourself into their relationship. First, hang out with the both of them together, add him as a friend on facebook, etc, make it very awkward. Second, engage him in individual conversations. Ask why he is single, that there must be some attractive girls out there that don't already have boyfriends...That is your bomb, the springing of the trap so to say. He is now put on the defensive. He has to justify why he, as a single man, has chosen to have your girlfriend as a 'best friend'. He may not say anything, but he will certainly know that he 'has been put on watch'

sidenote: If he is not single, escalate the fake friendship and invite his wife/girlfriend along as well, become friends with her. That will really freak him out if he also senses that you "know whats up"

If this guy is at all human, he will get freaked out if he was trying to, or is actively banging your girlfriend. He is a man, and can think logically, and can assess the risk of shit coming down on him now that you are 'aware' of what is going on and will likely back away. When I was banging married women, they would blow their husbands off as "no risk" or "nothing"...because they are women, but I, the man, was always the one to cut shit off because I felt the risk of high drama was too extreme.

Result: Your girlfriend is going to be pissed off at you. She will accuse you of being weird, paranoid, messing around in her life etc and one of two thing will happen. 1. She will try even harder to see this guy on the 'down low' or 2. She will complain for a while and then continue on with your life together. Either way, the loss of attention from this other guy will upset her and she will pursue him for answers. If he is a risk taker/reckless her increased pursuit will lead him to bang her. If he has a sense of self preservation he will stay away from her.

Either way, this approach will bring your relationship to a resolution. It will be stable, or end. That is an outcome that I am fine with, I hate when it is in "limbo".

TL;DR - I advise AMOG...but not in a caveman style, in a cerebral way.

He knows that I don't like him(she told him).
In the past he tried to invite us both to hang out with him.
I can't figure out what his game is, I don't want to hang out with this fag, prefer to punch him.

Not against the theme of AMOG'ing the other guy, but to put the focus back on your girl: I don't know if I'd directly say "I am leaving you if you don't stop talking to him", but I would just comment how weird it is, ask HER why he's single, etc... if you act too directly at this stage it looks like you're not master of your own ship (your own emotions); that is to say, ultimatums come from a place of weakness.

[The Nude Matador]

(11-03-2015 11:28 AM)mntrsx Wrote:  

I wonder if ultimatum was the best choice but did it anyway, time will tell.
By the way I keep gaming in Ukraine.

Looks like my reply above came too late.

One thing we can all agree on: you're right, there's a problem here. I've been in a similar situation a lifetime ago. So have many posters, I bet.

I don't feel the ultimatum was the best play but it's far from the worst (inertia, sulking, or cuckoldry). Best of luck.

[Dr. Howard]

Quote:

He knows that I don't like him(she told him).
In the past he tried to invite us both to hang out with him.
I can't figure out what his game is, I don't want to hang out with this fag, prefer to punch him.

Quote:

I'm in a similar situation, and trying to think of how to deal with it is an interesting exercise. There are a couple of options which have been mentioned, including:
1). Confront the guy
2). Confront her
3). Go cold and induce dread in her

My opinions on all of them are:
1). I can't justify this because the guy is doing what guys do. It's expected, and honestly, should be happening, because who wants to date someone who no one except you thinks is hot. End result: confrontation leads to huge showing of weakness and beta. Avoid.

Does tact not exist in 2015? Maybe not with the general population of men it seems, but lets look at a shining example. Donald Trump. Does he walk across the debate stage and punch Jeb Bush in the face? No. Does he have an epic meltdown and refuse to participate in a debate because Jeb is there? No.

Trump knows tact, trump knows how to say "I don't like you, don't fuck with me" while still sharing the stage with Jeb, and making Jeb look like a retard by trying to do an angry high five.

Quote:

I can't justify this because the guy is doing what guys do. It's expected, and honestly, should be happening, because who wants to date someone who no one except you thinks is hot.

wrong. If a girl, lets say my wife, is out at the gym and some guy comes tells her that she is doing her squats wrong etc. Even if I am there, I will chuckle to myself and continue to go about my business. That guy doesn't know who I am, he's never met me, he doesn't know thats my wife. So yeah, of course he will hit on her...thats what guys do.

If I'm out at the gym, and a regular, who I have talked to, whom knows that I am married to this woman is not only hitting on her, but is working in sets with her, and is planning his workout times during the day to be there at the same time AND work out with her. You had better fucking believe I am going to be inserting myself into that situation. It isn't for my wife's sake, as she probably is attracted to the guy if she is cooperating and letting it happen. It is for my sake, that dude is stepping into my sandbox, he knows who I am and is disrespecting me and thats not going to continue under my nose without me making it very uncomfortable for the both of them.

That is the difference here, its not 'just what guys do'

What would trump do if Jeb was taking his wife out to dinner? Would he punch him in the face on TV? No. Would he release a sex tape of him banging his troll wife? No. He would pull Jeb aside and say something like "Jeb, your friendship with my wife isn't going to work out. Its just not, trust me" End of Conversation. That is tact, its not causing a scene or showing weakness. When Jeb stops calling Trumps wife and she says "Donald! Did you say something to Jeb?!" Trump just says "What, Jeb and I are friends, we are allowed to talk"

@OP. You got trolled by this guy. Your reaction is what every girlfriend swooper wants. A girl's boyfriend having antisocial, but non confrontational reactions is the best situation for an interloper. I can almost GUARANTEE that when you declined the invite your girlfriend told this guy that you were being "weird, antisocial, a loser" etc. Its a game of chicken and you test your girlfriend. You accept his invite, go and hang out and then declare that "we have to get going, lets go honey" if she whines, or wants to stay with the guy by herself...Game over, next that bitch quick, she is already on his dick in her mind.

Last, you have bad frame with viewing him as a 'fag that you'd prefer to punch'. He is your adversary, and has intelligence if not a high level of game. You need to learn to be political and how to make him think that your bitch's notch is not worth the hassle. I'm sure he enjoys his professional job and generally non stressful life more than a new pussy. Remind him of that if he doesn't get the first hint.

Last.
If this all seems like too much effort, then don't be in an LTR and definitely don't get married. You WILL have these standoffs if you are married to a hot woman, trust me.

[Dr. Howard]

(11-03-2015 11:57 AM)The Nude Matador Wrote:  

[quote] (11-03-2015 09:38 AM)mntrsx Wrote:  

[quote='mntrsx' pid='1141413' dateline='1446554957']
I'm in my thirties and it's hard to end this, all these years thrown into garbage. I just don't want to regret my decision in the future, she could be the perfect wife and mother of my future children. She is exactly how I like it in all the other areas

Not against the theme of AMOG'ing the other guy, but to put the focus back on your girl: I don't know if I'd directly say "I am leaving you if you don't stop talking to him", but I would just comment how weird it is, ask HER why he's single, etc... if you act too directly at this stage it looks like you're not master of your own ship (your own emotions); that is to say, ultimatums come from a place of weakness.

I would never advise "I am leaving you if you don't stop talking to him", its too direct. You want dread and doubt instead.

Something like "Your friendship with this guy is causing obvious problems with our relationship. What do you think the solution here is? If you're hanging out late into the night alone with this guy, what should I do? I'm certainly not not just going to just sit around the house by myself. Tell me how this all plays out a year from now if you and this guy are still "best friends'"

Make her fill in the blanks.

[Frontenac]

^^
Interesting analogies, but I gotta stand by what I said.

If the guy you're confronting has any idea about relationships, especially if it's a guy who shares the same mindset as us, he will likely increase his hitting on the girl if you say something to him. This is only because he knows that if you have to confront him, then she is there for the taking. This of course only applies if the girl and guy have gotten to know one another, such as in the case of the OP. If its a guy at the bar who comes up your girl, she says shes taken, her persues, and you are right there, then I'd tell him off.

Another thing is he may go tell the girl that you came after him and that you're an asshole and she could turn on you too. It also depends on your relationship with the girl. If you're married and the whole nine yards, then you have every right to defend your sandbox.

You made some good points Dr. Howard. It's a tough call.

[Dr. Howard]

(11-03-2015 12:18 PM)Frontenac Wrote:  

^^
Interesting analogies, but I gotta stand by what I said.

If the guy you're confronting has any idea about relationships, especially if it's a guy who shares the same mindset as us, he will likely increase his hitting on the girl if you say something to him. This is only because he knows that if you have to confront him, then she is there for the taking. This of course only applies if the girl and guy have gotten to know one another, such as in the case of the OP. If its a guy at the bar who comes up your girl, she says shes taken, her persues, and you are right there, then I'd tell him off.

Another thing is he may go tell the girl that you came after him and that you're an asshole and she could turn on you too. It also depends on your relationship with the girl. If you're married and the whole nine yards, then you have every right to defend your sandbox.

You made some good points Dr. Howard. It's a tough call.

I agree with you completely. I think my advised approach will accelerate things to a resolution, which may be positive or negative outcome. If she's already banging him on the side, confrontation will push him further into his arms...and if she's already on his dick...her running away is probably a good thing.

If she's weak and/or can't say no on her own , the OP's intervention will disrupt what is an easy safe space for their interaction that currently exists.

To reiterate, I dislike 'relationship limbo' intensely and my personal preference is to make moves that will make a girl stay, or go so I can move on with my life. I'd rather 'lose a girl' than 'wait for her to come around'

So Frontenac is also correct. Making overt moves involves the risk of a negative outcome. My counter point is no action/aloof game involves allowing deception to continue if it is already happening.

[Onto]

I'm at work now so I can't write much, but OP you did the right thing in giving the ultimatum. There are a lot of jobs out there, but only one of you. At least that's how she should see it.

Any women who tells her huaband she has a guy friend is either kidding him or kidding herself.

Her ass should really be in the home preparing your dinner, but few men are willing to step up and be the sole-earner as was in tradional times.

You don't lose frame by limiting your woman's freedom and making demands . Quite the opposite.

[mntrsx]

(11-03-2015 12:03 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

Does tact not exist in 2015? Maybe not with the general population of men it seems, but lets look at a shining example. Donald Trump. Does he walk across the debate stage and punch Jeb Bush in the face? No. Does he have an epic meltdown and refuse to participate in a debate because Jeb is there? No.

Trump knows tact, trump knows how to say "I don't like you, don't fuck with me" while still sharing the stage with Jeb, and making Jeb look like a retard by trying to do an angry high five.

Quote:

I can't justify this because the guy is doing what guys do. It's expected, and honestly, should be happening, because who wants to date someone who no one except you thinks is hot.

wrong. If a girl, lets say my wife, is out at the gym and some guy comes tells her that she is doing her squats wrong etc. Even if I am there, I will chuckle to myself and continue to go about my business. That guy doesn't know who I am, he's never met me, he doesn't know thats my wife. So yeah, of course he will hit on her...thats what guys do.

If I'm out at the gym, and a regular, who I have talked to, whom knows that I am married to this woman is not only hitting on her, but is working in sets with her, and is planning his workout times during the day to be there at the same time AND work out with her. You had better fucking believe I am going to be inserting myself into that situation. It isn't for my wife's sake, as she probably is attracted to the guy if she is cooperating and letting it happen. It is for my sake, that dude is stepping into my sandbox, he knows who I am and is disrespecting me and thats not going to continue under my nose without me making it very uncomfortable for the both of them.

That is the difference here, its not 'just what guys do'

What would trump do if Jeb was taking his wife out to dinner? Would he punch him in the face on TV? No. Would he release a sex tape of him banging his troll wife? No. He would pull Jeb aside and say something like "Jeb, your friendship with my wife isn't going to work out. Its just not, trust me" End of Conversation. That is tact, its not causing a scene or showing weakness. When Jeb stops calling Trumps wife and she says "Donald! Did you say something to Jeb?!" Trump just says "What, Jeb and I are friends, we are allowed to talk"

@OP. You got trolled by this guy. Your reaction is what every girlfriend swooper wants. A girl's boyfriend having antisocial, but non confrontational reactions is the best situation for an interloper. I can almost GUARANTEE that when you declined the invite your girlfriend told this guy that you were being "weird, antisocial, a loser" etc. Its a game of chicken and you test your girlfriend. You accept his invite, go and hang out and then declare that "we have to get going, lets go honey" if she whines, or wants to stay with the guy by herself...Game over, next that bitch quick, she is already on his dick in her mind.

Last, you have bad frame with viewing him as a 'fag that you'd prefer to punch'. He is your adversary, and has intelligence if not a high level of game. You need to learn to be political and how to make him think that your bitch's notch is not worth the hassle. I'm sure he enjoys his professional job and generally non stressful life more than a new pussy. Remind him of that if he doesn't get the first hint.

Last.
If this all seems like too much effort, then don't be in an LTR and definitely don't get married. You WILL have these standoffs if you are married to a hot woman, trust me.

3:25

[LA Savage]

(11-03-2015 12:56 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

To reiterate, I dislike 'relationship limbo' intensely and my personal preference is to make moves that will make a girl stay, or go so I can move on with my life. I'd rather 'lose a girl' than 'wait for her to come around'

I co-sign this.

Always Be Replacing Not Chasing These Bitches.

Time is something you can never get back.

Why continue wasting time trying to fix this relationship is already damaged and you have lost trust for her since this guy she works with is in the picture.

Has she ever cheated on you before?

It seems like the only reason you haven't left her yet is because you have already invested several years of being in a relationship with her and aren't ready to walk away on your own terms at any moment.

I can't imagine what type of paranoia and pain you must be going through to wonder if she is is staying loyal to you or cheating on you with her coworker/male bestfriend who wants to fuck her.


You know your girlfriend better than any of us do.

You can follow all the other great advice other members posted above such as aloof game etc.. Or you can just cut all the bullshit and have a serious talk with her and look her directly in the eyes and ask her if she is cheating on you. Remember to pay extreme close attention to her body language. She may be denying it verbally or acting offended and circling around the answer, but by the end of of that discussion you should be able to tell whether or not she was telling the truth or not.

[Latan]

^I don't think having a talk with a girl, and asking her if she's cheating on you, is a good idea.
This shows insecurity, in my humble opinion.
Having an abundance mentality prevents from even thinking about that.

But what if he understands she's cheating on him, whithout asking? (She behaves more bitchy, whiny, cold, distant and doesn't give sex on demand)
Then next her and find other holes, there are billions of them.

[mntrsx]

She did what I told her and we are back together, but I feel that I still want to leave her. The game fucked me up.
Since I've discovered the game and understood the real nature of people I became a hedonistic sociopath. I think mostly about myself and care more about fucking and money than anything else.

She is the perfect woman for marriage and I think that I was just seeking for an excuse to leave her.

I want to leave her but dont know how to do it properly without hurting her.

I still want to make a family with her, but if I do I will lose all the ass and fun that I can get only by myself when I travel and meet new women.

[Dalaran1991]

(11-27-2015 07:37 AM)mntrsx Wrote:  

Since I've discovered the game and understood the real nature of people I became a hedonistic sociopath. I think mostly about myself and care more about fucking and money than anything else.

You are not, because of this:

Quote:

I want to leave her but dont know how to do it properly without hurting her.

If you were truly selfish, you would leave her without starting this thread without a single bit of remorse.

Guys need to stop telling themselves that the game turn them dark, it's not true. It's the ego defense mechanism to convince themselves that they are the tough guy and not the beta boy they once were. I feel exactly like this sometimes, on a day to day basis I can be a cold bastard but when it comes time to really be cruel, I can't. And that's good.

Very few men are capable of just walking away ghosting from a long LTR. That requires a clinical level of dark triad and I don't think its healthy.

Back to your situation, it's natural that you want to leave because the trust has been broken. A man's trust in his woman is sacred glass, if she broke it she could cry to kingdom come but it won't be back.

It's clear now that even if you stay with her you won't be entirely happy. I think we've given you every advice you need. The rest now is entirely up to you.

Quote:

I want to leave her but dont know how to do it properly without hurting her.

Do remember that contrary to popular beliefs, women don't grieve over their lost alphas. She will just get a beta shoulder to cry on and new dicks to jump on (we already know who the guy is). Sure there will be a lot of begging and tears but that's to satisfy her thirst for drama not for you.

She wont hurt long if that's what you are worried about.

Should you choose to walk, good luck brother.

[mntrsx]

(11-27-2015 11:01 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 07:37 AM)mntrsx Wrote:  

Since I've discovered the game and understood the real nature of people I became a hedonistic sociopath. I think mostly about myself and care more about fucking and money than anything else.

You are not, because of this:

Quote:

I want to leave her but dont know how to do it properly without hurting her.

If you were truly selfish, you would leave her without starting this thread without a single bit of remorse.

Guys need to stop telling themselves that the game turn them dark, it's not true. It's the ego defense mechanism to convince themselves that they are the tough guy and not the beta boy they once were. I feel exactly like this sometimes, on a day to day basis I can be a cold bastard but when it comes time to really be cruel, I can't. And that's good.

Very few men are capable of just walking away ghosting from a long LTR. That requires a clinical level of dark triad and I don't think its healthy.

Back to your situation, it's natural that you want to leave because the trust has been broken. A man's trust in his woman is sacred glass, if she broke it she could cry to kingdom come but it won't be back.

It's clear now that even if you stay with her you won't be entirely happy. I think we've given you every advice you need. The rest now is entirely up to you.

Quote:

I want to leave her but dont know how to do it properly without hurting her.

Do remember that contrary to popular beliefs, women don't grieve over their lost alphas. She will just get a beta shoulder to cry on and new dicks to jump on (we already know who the guy is). Sure there will be a lot of begging and tears but that's to satisfy her thirst for drama not for you.

She wont hurt long if that's what you are worried about.

Should you choose to walk, good luck brother.

Of course I care about her after so many years of relationship, she has always been there for me and we were closer than family members, so I can't kick her out.

I just can't break up with her without giving her a reason and especially a reason for myself, so my solution is to keep cheating and stay with her until she leaves me.

No way I'm gonna give this beta fag the satisfaction that he won.

[Sonoma]

Honestly, this just sounds like you're dating a woman that works. If it's not this guy now, it'll be another guy later

It also sounds like she's holding you back, you're in a house together and you seem mildly unhappy. Marry her or dump her, pick your poison, but no need to wait around years because she's nice

[Onto]

(11-27-2015 12:38 PM)mntrsx Wrote:  

I just can't break up with her without giving her a reason and especially a reason for myself, so my solution is to keep cheating and stay with her until she leaves me.

No way I'm gonna give this beta fag the satisfaction that he won.

Breaking up without giving a reason is actually better than giving one because it will force them to think about what they did wrong. The question will drive them insane and they will pester you to fault them in some way so they can be free of it and get back to living. Not knowing why is harder for them, but paradoxically it's the best thing for them.

If instead, you give a reason they will hamster it away and throw the fault back on you. They are no longer in question, so they don't have to think. She will move on quickly, but dumbly.

Anyway, it seems there are a few more Acts left to play out in this story. Maybe it will go something like this:

Act iV Scene 1: She finds out your cheating, big fight ensues, you makeup.
Act iV Scene 2: She cheats on you, big fight ensues, you makeup.
Act iV Scene 3: No trust left, relationship sucks, but she gets pregnant. You wonder who's baby it is.

Act V Scene 1: You get engaged.
Act V Scene 2: You find out she's still seeing the guy from work, but you work it out and she dumps him for good
Act V Scene 3: She has a new guy friend she met at the gym, and one at church.

Act VI Scene 1: You get married, still lots of drama.
Act VI Scene 2: She gets pregnant again.
Act VI Scene 3: You get divorced.

Act VII Scene 1: You get divorce raped and are stuck paying child support for another 20 years.
Act VII Scene 2: You meet another girl, and things are good for a while until the same old issues pop back up that were there with the first girl.
Act VII Scene 3: You stick with her anyways.

That's one ending at least. It's up to you to make a different one happen.