[Checkmat]

The difference though, is the old school method of BJJ in a fight is to close the distance, clinch, and fall to the ground with the guy in any way. Just get him in your world/out of his world. It doesn't require a large amount of finesse. Assuming we're talking about a street fight not a pro MMA fight.

If you're a boxer, fighting a grappler, you'd better knock him out with your first punch. Because if the grappler gets his hands on you, it's going to be like swimming with a shark.

[WanderingSoul]

(06-23-2015 03:22 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

The difference though, is the old school method of BJJ in a fight is to close the distance, clinch, and fall to the ground with the guy in any way. Just get him in your world/out of his world. It doesn't require a large amount of finesse. Assuming we're talking about a street fight not a pro MMA fight.

If you're a boxer, fighting a grappler, you'd better knock him out with your first punch. Because if the grappler gets his hands on you, it's going to be like swimming with a shark.

A boxer is going to knock the crap out of most new school BJJ guys before he even gets close because he probably has never went live on his feet with a striking opponent, and his takedowns are non existent.

I'll take a boxer who has trained for 2 years over a BJJ guy who has trained for 2 years, unless that BJJ guy has a wrestling base, or trained at a school that legitimately practices live standup on a regular basis.



As far as my 180 on BJJ

I'm not a BJJ hater 100%. I love the old school Carlson Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Taekdowns and a heavy top game, not playing off your back unless you have to. I just hate the new school sport Jiu Jitsu, and the mentality of the people who follow it.

New school BJJ promotes passivity with butt schooting/pulling guard, huge lack of standup ability and a emphasis on guard work. The culture really frowns upon people using strength. You constantly hear people bitching about guys using too much strength while they train. I can't count the number of times I've read/heard guys say they don't care about the practicality of BJJ in a real fight, they just do it for fun. To me, that's a pussified and watered down version of Jiu Jitsu. If you don't care about the practicality of BJJ in a real fight, go play chess. Most of the guys who say this are limp wrist-ed, SJW types, which infest the BJJ community.

So, my main problems with BJJ are:
- Lack of takedowns
- Overall pussified culture within the sport
- Buttschooting/pulling guard nonsense
- Emphasis on playing off of your back
- Passive nature BJJ promotes (don't use strength, no takedowns, people bitching about hard crossface, etc.)
- Popularity of bullshit like 50/50, berimbolo and fancy guards with zero practicality outside of sport BJJ
- Spending 4:50 seconds on your back, hitting a sweep, and "winning", when in reality you'd have your face smashed beyond recognition in nearly 5 minutes of playing off your back in a real situation.

There's an army of blue and purple belts out there with weak takedowns who spend the majority of their BJJ time playing off of their backs. These guys will get their shit pushed in by a decently tough guy in a fight. BJJ players by blue belt should have solid takedowns and know that you only play off of your back if you get put there.

This sums up a lot of thoughts fairly well:

Anyways, I'm rambling. I could probably have worded everything better, but you get the idea. I still love BJJ, I just hate the current state of it. I think it's been pussified and watered down into something that is significantly less effective than what it should be.

[whoishe]

I read aften opinions like this, as mentioned here also current state of judo is heavily criticized (mostly because of no attacks on legs rules). So it seems that out of grapling sports wrestling seems to be the safest bet when you want to start ameteurish training and know what to do in real life scraps.

For people living in FSU area Sambo would be always a good bet too, but I don't think you have a chokes there, as it's one of the reasons Sambists aften crossover their training with Judo.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-23-2015 03:46 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 03:22 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

The difference though, is the old school method of BJJ in a fight is to close the distance, clinch, and fall to the ground with the guy in any way. Just get him in your world/out of his world. It doesn't require a large amount of finesse. Assuming we're talking about a street fight not a pro MMA fight.

If you're a boxer, fighting a grappler, you'd better knock him out with your first punch. Because if the grappler gets his hands on you, it's going to be like swimming with a shark.

A boxer is going to knock the crap out of most new school BJJ guys before he even gets close because he probably has never went live on his feet with a striking opponent, and his takedowns are non existent.

....

Anyways, I'm rambling. I could probably have worded everything better, but you get the idea. I still love BJJ, I just hate the current state of it. I think it's been pussified and watered down into something that is significantly less effective than what it should be.

Finally, someone talking sense.

Modern BJJ has moved closer to Judo which, makes it safer for sport but less effective for self defence. I studied japanese jiu jitsu as a teenager an beyond the weapons it included things like following a wrist locked opponent to the ground and then stomping on their elbow or chicken winged shoulder joint.

The sparring did not start in a grapple, but a UFC type standup.

Last, I agree that a boxer is a greater risk to a person in a streetfight than a BJJ trained person, just because they are trained to end a fight with force and quickly. (now granted a BJJ trained person is still a million times more useful than someone with no training).

Why? We had some kid transfer into our jiu jitsu club from a boxing gym and the demolished everyone, just because he was trained to punch and you'd be hit 3 times and have a bleeding nose before you were able to step into range with him. Thats just it, one hard punch to the face will make people think twice about wanting more and boxing lets a person do that within a fraction of a second of a fight starting.

[Checkmat]

Rio, we've talked about this before and we are in agreement 99%. I hate sport jiu-jitsu and you articulated my thoughts exactly on the current climate.

But that kind of jiu-jitsu isn't what I'm promoting. I come from Relson lineage. Strong emphasis on street self-defense, takedowns and strike control. Old school jiu-jitsu *if you can find it* is extremely valuable.

It's worth pointing out though, that we saw the efficacy of sport jiu-jitsu in that basketball court video a few months ago. I'm on my phone otherwise I'd post it. The purple belt could have crippled the other guy with his heel hook from 50/50.

I also disagree with 2yrs boxing vs 2yrs BJJ. From experience, I had an ammy MMA fight with 2 years of BJJ exp and zero striking. I closed the distance, ate a few strikes but got a tripod sweep, took top half, passed to side control etc. The shit works.

What saved the guy (and cost me the fight) was that he too had 2+ years of BJJ plus kickboxing. He had enough jiu-jitsu to defend himself on the ground and get back to his feet.

It was an amazing learning experience.

My point is, if you can find like you said, old school BJJ, man that shit works.

[whoishe]

(06-23-2015 03:57 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

Modern BJJ has moved closer to Judo which, makes it safer for sport but less effective for self defence. I studied japanese jiu jitsu as a teenager an beyond the weapons it included things like following a wrist locked opponent to the ground and then stomping on their elbow or chicken winged shoulder joint.

Not sure if I want to go into BJJ vs Judo on the street discussion, but I actually think Judo approach - grab attacker, throw or trip him to the ground and get the fuck out, with having enough ground game to hopefully get away from back position if necessary - is better comparing to modern BJJ, where as Rio noted your strengths start after you go to the ground, on top or not).

Especially in Eastern Europe where attacker will potentially have some clothes on him which will imitate Judoga well enough.

Also, because of lesser emphasis on takedowns in my opinion modern BJJ is further away from Judo than ever before.

Wrestling still trumps both of them though I guess.

[viajero]

(06-23-2015 04:04 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

What saved the guy (and cost me the fight) was that he too had 2+ years of BJJ plus kickboxing. He had enough jiu-jitsu to defend himself on the ground and get back to his feet.

This is why I think opinions about which style is best are dumb. The clear answer is to train multiple styles.

As your fight demonstrated, you don't have to better at BJJ than a guy to win the fight, you just have to be able to keep the fight standing/get it back to standing.

Even for boxing and not street fights, I think training grappling can be beneficial. I've heard a lot of old school boxers used to train wrestling, if that were brought back the quality of the in-fighting would go up I bet.

[WanderingSoul]

(06-23-2015 04:04 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

Rio, we've talked about this before and we are in agreement 99%. I hate sport jiu-jitsu and you articulated my thoughts exactly on the current climate.

But that kind of jiu-jitsu isn't what I'm promoting. I come from Relson lineage. Strong emphasis on street self-defense, takedowns and strike control. Old school jiu-jitsu *if you can find it* is extremely valuable.

It's worth pointing out though, that we saw the efficacy of sport jiu-jitsu in that basketball court video a few months ago. I'm on my phone otherwise I'd post it. The purple belt could have crippled the other guy with his heel hook from 50/50.

I also disagree with 2yrs boxing vs 2yrs BJJ. From experience, I had an ammy MMA fight with 2 years of BJJ exp and zero striking. I closed the distance, ate a few strikes but got a tripod sweep, took top half, passed to side control etc. The shit works.

What saved the guy (and cost me the fight) was that he too had 2+ years of BJJ plus kickboxing. He had enough jiu-jitsu to defend himself on the ground and get back to his feet.

It was an amazing learning experience.

My point is, if you can find like you said, old school BJJ, man that shit works.

I should have stated that I mean a 2 year sport BJJ guy. If someone trained at Relson school like you, or a school with a strong emphasis on starting from the feet, then I would pick the BJJ guy.

Old school BJJ is the real deal. If you train to take someone down from the feet, and keep a top position, that type of BJJ is 100% worth training and I love it.

[JacksonRev]

Just do something.

I prefer Muay Thai bag work and sparring to rolling around on the ground. Mainly because I'm bigger and stronger than most people, so I need shit for technique to throw them around, and I'm always thinking about how I can break their face instead of my next BJJ move.

You'll find out what you like. I feel absolutely amazing after destroying something with my fists and shins, so that's what I do.

And honestly, in real life threatening situations all I use my years of fighting experience to do is create distance and pull my handgun.

[nek]

(06-23-2015 03:46 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 03:22 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

The difference though, is the old school method of BJJ in a fight is to close the distance, clinch, and fall to the ground with the guy in any way. Just get him in your world/out of his world. It doesn't require a large amount of finesse. Assuming we're talking about a street fight not a pro MMA fight.

If you're a boxer, fighting a grappler, you'd better knock him out with your first punch. Because if the grappler gets his hands on you, it's going to be like swimming with a shark.

A boxer is going to knock the crap out of most new school BJJ guys before he even gets close because he probably has never went live on his feet with a striking opponent, and his takedowns are non existent.

I'll take a boxer who has trained for 2 years over a BJJ guy who has trained for 2 years, unless that BJJ guy has a wrestling base, or trained at a school that legitimately practices live standup on a regular basis.



As far as my 180 on BJJ

I'm not a BJJ hater 100%. I love the old school Carlson Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Taekdowns and a heavy top game, not playing off your back unless you have to. I just hate the new school sport Jiu Jitsu, and the mentality of the people who follow it.

New school BJJ promotes passivity with butt schooting/pulling guard, huge lack of standup ability and a emphasis on guard work. The culture really frowns upon people using strength. You constantly hear people bitching about guys using too much strength while they train. I can't count the number of times I've read/heard guys say they don't care about the practicality of BJJ in a real fight, they just do it for fun. To me, that's a pussified and watered down version of Jiu Jitsu. If you don't care about the practicality of BJJ in a real fight, go play chess. Most of the guys who say this are limp wrist-ed, SJW types, which infest the BJJ community.

So, my main problems with BJJ are:
- Lack of takedowns
- Overall pussified culture within the sport
- Buttschooting/pulling guard nonsense
- Emphasis on playing off of your back
- Passive nature BJJ promotes (don't use strength, no takedowns, people bitching about hard crossface, etc.)
- Popularity of bullshit like 50/50, berimbolo and fancy guards with zero practicality outside of sport BJJ
- Spending 4:50 seconds on your back, hitting a sweep, and "winning", when in reality you'd have your face smashed beyond recognition in nearly 5 minutes of playing off your back in a real situation.

There's an army of blue and purple belts out there with weak takedowns who spend the majority of their BJJ time playing off of their backs. These guys will get their shit pushed in by a decently tough guy in a fight. BJJ players by blue belt should have solid takedowns and know that you only play off of your back if you get put there.

This sums up a lot of thoughts fairly well:

Anyways, I'm rambling. I could probably have worded everything better, but you get the idea. I still love BJJ, I just hate the current state of it. I think it's been pussified and watered down into something that is significantly less effective than what it should be.

Lot's of great discussion in this thread. If you go to a gym that's an "MMA" gym (has ground and stand up disciplines), take a good look at the difference between the standup class and the BJJ class. 1) They BJJ class will have WAY more people and, 2) the BJJ class will have many more females and younger students (a lot of places have kids as young as 14 in adult classes based on experience). That should tell you a lot right there. The worst thing is some of the BJJ guys will inflate the shit out of the egos of the women and younger students to a scary point, if they show good skill. Yes it's better than nothing, and I certainly condone training in it, but at the end of the day it's still a sport, not a street fight. Remember, there's the old joke about BJJ:

"What happens when you hit a black belt in the face?"
"He becomes a brown belt"
"and if you hit him again?"
"a purple belt"
"and again?"
"a blue belt"
"and again?"
"a white belt"

You're composure changes greatly when there is a guy top heavy on you raining down punches (see Weidman vs Belfort for example). There's a reason that of all the grappling styles that guys in MMA come from, wrestlers have really outshined the rest (look at the champions with a wrestling background). The culture of wrestling is about dominance, aggression, and manhandling, which translates to an actual fight very well. Hell, a lot of the reason the rules changed for Judo (no leg attacks) even was because wrestlers were coming in and dominating.

[Sherman]

I would be careful about boxing if you are past 30. I work out in the gym with a former professional boxer who now teaches boxing to kids in the gym. He said that after he reached his 30s, he quit boxing because of the risk of retinal detachment. That is why I don't box either, because I have a floater in one of my eyes, which the doctor says shows an increase risk of retinal detachment. When you are older, it just doesn't make sense to get hit in the head a lot. That is why real boxers retire when they get old.

[samsamsam]

(06-23-2015 07:37 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

I would be careful about boxing if you are past 30. I work out in the gym with a former professional boxer who now teaches boxing to kids in the gym. He said that after he reached his 30s, he quit boxing because of the risk of retinal detachment. That is why I don't box either, because I have a floater in one of my eyes, which the doctor says shows an increase risk of retinal detachment. When you are older, it just doesn't make sense to get hit in the head a lot. That is why real boxers retire when they get old.

How badly do you have to be hit to suffer a retinal detachment? Is this without head gear? I am way past 30. I do have a floater. I was about to really pick up my sparring. However, we have headgear etc. thanks.

[Sherman]

(06-23-2015 07:57 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 07:37 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

I would be careful about boxing if you are past 30. I work out in the gym with a former professional boxer who now teaches boxing to kids in the gym. He said that after he reached his 30s, he quit boxing because of the risk of retinal detachment. That is why I don't box either, because I have a floater in one of my eyes, which the doctor says shows an increase risk of retinal detachment. When you are older, it just doesn't make sense to get hit in the head a lot. That is why real boxers retire when they get old.

How badly do you have to be hit to suffer a retinal detachment? Is this without head gear? I am way past 30. I do have a floater. I was about to really pick up my sparring. However, we have headgear etc. thanks.

If I were you, I would go to an eye doctor (a real medical doctor) and have him examine the condition of your retinas, and ask him what the risks are of sparring with headgear.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-23-2015 05:25 PM)nek Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 03:46 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(06-23-2015 03:22 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

The difference though, is the old school method of BJJ in a fight is to close the distance, clinch, and fall to the ground with the guy in any way. Just get him in your world/out of his world. It doesn't require a large amount of finesse. Assuming we're talking about a street fight not a pro MMA fight.

If you're a boxer, fighting a grappler, you'd better knock him out with your first punch. Because if the grappler gets his hands on you, it's going to be like swimming with a shark.

A boxer is going to knock the crap out of most new school BJJ guys before he even gets close because he probably has never went live on his feet with a striking opponent, and his takedowns are non existent.

I'll take a boxer who has trained for 2 years over a BJJ guy who has trained for 2 years, unless that BJJ guy has a wrestling base, or trained at a school that legitimately practices live standup on a regular basis.



As far as my 180 on BJJ

I'm not a BJJ hater 100%. I love the old school Carlson Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Taekdowns and a heavy top game, not playing off your back unless you have to. I just hate the new school sport Jiu Jitsu, and the mentality of the people who follow it.

New school BJJ promotes passivity with butt schooting/pulling guard, huge lack of standup ability and a emphasis on guard work. The culture really frowns upon people using strength. You constantly hear people bitching about guys using too much strength while they train. I can't count the number of times I've read/heard guys say they don't care about the practicality of BJJ in a real fight, they just do it for fun. To me, that's a pussified and watered down version of Jiu Jitsu. If you don't care about the practicality of BJJ in a real fight, go play chess. Most of the guys who say this are limp wrist-ed, SJW types, which infest the BJJ community.

So, my main problems with BJJ are:
- Lack of takedowns
- Overall pussified culture within the sport
- Buttschooting/pulling guard nonsense
- Emphasis on playing off of your back
- Passive nature BJJ promotes (don't use strength, no takedowns, people bitching about hard crossface, etc.)
- Popularity of bullshit like 50/50, berimbolo and fancy guards with zero practicality outside of sport BJJ
- Spending 4:50 seconds on your back, hitting a sweep, and "winning", when in reality you'd have your face smashed beyond recognition in nearly 5 minutes of playing off your back in a real situation.

There's an army of blue and purple belts out there with weak takedowns who spend the majority of their BJJ time playing off of their backs. These guys will get their shit pushed in by a decently tough guy in a fight. BJJ players by blue belt should have solid takedowns and know that you only play off of your back if you get put there.

This sums up a lot of thoughts fairly well:

Anyways, I'm rambling. I could probably have worded everything better, but you get the idea. I still love BJJ, I just hate the current state of it. I think it's been pussified and watered down into something that is significantly less effective than what it should be.

Lot's of great discussion in this thread. If you go to a gym that's an "MMA" gym (has ground and stand up disciplines), take a good look at the difference between the standup class and the BJJ class. 1) They BJJ class will have WAY more people and, 2) the BJJ class will have many more females and younger students (a lot of places have kids as young as 14 in adult classes based on experience). That should tell you a lot right there. The worst thing is some of the BJJ guys will inflate the shit out of the egos of the women and younger students to a scary point, if they show good skill. Yes it's better than nothing, and I certainly condone training in it, but at the end of the day it's still a sport, not a street fight. Remember, there's the old joke about BJJ:

"What happens when you hit a black belt in the face?"
"He becomes a brown belt"
"and if you hit him again?"
"a purple belt"
"and again?"
"a blue belt"
"and again?"
"a white belt"

You're composure changes greatly when there is a guy top heavy on you raining down punches (see Weidman vs Belfort for example). There's a reason that of all the grappling styles that guys in MMA come from, wrestlers have really outshined the rest (look at the champions with a wrestling background). The culture of wrestling is about dominance, aggression, and manhandling, which translates to an actual fight very well. Hell, a lot of the reason the rules changed for Judo (no leg attacks) even was because wrestlers were coming in and dominating.

Sport BJJ is watered down BJJ just like BJJ is watered down japanese jiu jitsu. The safer the sport is, the fewer people it attracts.

I was lucky enough to train in japanese jiu jitsu when I was younger and I was always enamoured with how violent it was. I don't know if they even train wrist and ankle locks anymore? but we were taught how after a wrist lock was applied you bent the opponents arm up and stomped on the back of your opponents shoulder joint with the edge of your foot to pop it out like an over cooked chicken thigh. When your opponents 'tapped out' you always finished the 'motions' to disable them, the tapping out was to let you know you got the locks down correctly.

Boxing is also worth mentioning, we had a boxer show up to cross train at our club and he destroyed us all the first go around. The punches are so fast and composed.

[cascadecombo]

(06-23-2015 07:47 AM)whoishe Wrote:  

Rio - why and how did you become BJJ hater? Or I am missing the point reading your post literally?

(06-22-2015 10:13 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

I really wish Judo wasn't turned into such a spectator sport. The throws and takedowns are brutal, except now you can't grab the legs. That simple rule killed so many effective takedowns. All in the name of keeping it "fun to watch", which I understand from a monetary point of view.

It was also done to push away itself from wrestling and MMA world. I can actually understand it - it's not in Judo interest to frequently lose fighters to MMA and after this changes fights really got more exciting for spectators (I find wrestling way more boring to watch). Yes, "No grabbing legs rule" partially crippled judo fighters training and ability, but they seem much safer right now regarding staying as Olympic sport. Which has to be #1 priority for them.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I still love to watch those ippon highlight reels. It's also forced some different methods to be applied to old style throws.

In particular takedowns that grab the legs often have the thrower dropping to a knee (or at least I would since I come from a wreslting base and it's a hard habit to break). Now when I try to do a modified firemans carry there is no worry of knee damage since I no longer drop down on my knees to get the throw that way.

Wrestling generally can be pretty boring to watch, I will admit that. Unless you get to the matches where you see constant scrambling, it's going to be two guys deadlocked fighting for control before you see anything interesting happen at all.

Quote:

checkmat wrote
The difference though, is the old school method of BJJ in a fight is to close the distance, clinch, and fall to the ground with the guy in any way. Just get him in your world/out of his world. It doesn't require a large amount of finesse. Assuming we're talking about a street fight not a pro MMA fight.

If you're a boxer, fighting a grappler, you'd better knock him out with your first punch. Because if the grappler gets his hands on you, it's going to be like swimming with a shark.

Assuming you don't eat a punch or knee while going for a clinch. There is a reason a style called "sprawl n brawl" came around. If a boxer can just learn how to sprawl properly he won't need to bother with being taken to the ground in a clinch.

Quote:

Dr. Howard wrote
Thats just it, one hard punch to the face will make people think twice about wanting more and boxing lets a person do that within a fraction of a second of a fight starting.

This is the thing people underestimate way too much. I've taken accidental knees to the face, had my face smashed into the mats and other random things and assumed I could eat a punch or two to get a takedown.
While I could, against someone with basic training or less. The guys who actually knew how to strike had me flinching after I ate their first or second punch while trying to get in range.

I opted for the quick and foolish method of eating more until I stopped caring about eating them. But for the guys who have no experience taking a hit or two to the face, they'll get paralyzed from fear before they can take the guy down.

[StrikeBack]

For what it's worth, I just took up boxing nearly 5 months ago at 32 years of age. I have no real ambition other than doing club tournaments in my state. It's incredibly fun and complements my powerlifting nicely. My boxing coach is the current Australian middleweight champion. The MMA club we're based in is also a top BJJ club but I don't know enough about BJJ to comment. I'm told with my strength I will like BJJ, but I have no time at the moment to do that.

[Galahad]

I understand the discussion but I also see the difference in the motivation of people. Some train to be prepared for self defence, others for a tournament with sport rules. I know some people that do it for the sake of activity and they enjoy the social times there.
Everyone his own. So this kind of "its nor real" talk don't concern me really. First of all its important what a person want, I'm totally fine if someone say he or she don't want get hurt, just be physical active.
Also most people never have to face a real fight, so why should they think twice about it if their training is "real"?

I'm always interested in BJJ but I'm a simple guy, I like the simple, fast punches. I did Wing Tsung for some time but found it nice but useless without a real sparring. Boxing fits me more even when I don't do it regular any more. What a pity. Anyway in most cases a quick step in with a few punches and step back make the deal in self defence. At least in my area, its not that dangerous.
I wouldn't want to go to the ground on the street because mostly you get some kicks of the friends of the other guy or whatever. Hit and run is the better self defence tactic.

I like boxing because its fast to learn in some way, gives you a good thrill and you can spar soon, and thats the real deal. So for me any stuff that has some serious sparring is always in advance then something without sparring. Sparring gives you the mental training that a lot of martial arts guys lack - when they claim to train for self defence.

[mpr]

I'd recommend going to a reputable mma gym. You'll know if they're reputable if they have professional mma fighters competing. Or at least amateur mma fighters that compete and pro mma fighters that have come up through the gym.

That way you can try out different combat sports (wrestling, boxing, bjj, Thai kickboxing) to see what you like. That being said if you want to pick just one aspect to train I'd suggest wrestling for mma and/or bjj. When a well trained fighter goes up against an untrained fighter the untrained guy loses. When a trained pure striker goes up against a equally well trained pure grappler the striker always loses.

Of course becoming a well rounded fighter is a superior strategy to doing both those things. But that takes much more time and dedication then most people have. It also takes longer to gain fighting proficiency because it takes much longer to get good at many things then it would take if you focus on just one or two aspects of the game.

Personally I mostly focus on mma wrestling and bjj because I'm prone to rotator cuff injuries when I concentrate too heavily on striking, also I want to avoid the brain damage that comes with repeated blows to the head.

[WanderingSoul]

(06-24-2015 09:48 PM)mpr Wrote:  

I'd recommend going to a reputable mma gym. You'll know if they're reputable if they have professional mma fighters competing. Or at least amateur mma fighters that compete and pro mma fighters that have come up through the gym.

That way you can try out different combat sports (wrestling, boxing, bjj, Thai kickboxing) to see what you like. That being said if you want to pick just one aspect to train I'd suggest wrestling for mma and/or bjj. When a well trained fighter goes up against an untrained fighter the untrained guy loses. When a trained pure striker goes up against a equally well trained pure grappler the striker always loses.

Of course becoming a well rounded fighter is a superior strategy to doing both those things. But that takes much more time and dedication then most people have. It also takes longer to gain fighting proficiency because it takes much longer to get good at many things then it would take if you focus on just one or two aspects of the game.

Personally I mostly focus on mma wrestling and bjj because I'm prone to rotator cuff injuries when I concentrate too heavily on striking, also I want to avoid the brain damage that comes with repeated blows to the head.

Definitely not always, but often. Don Frye got KOd by a pure boxer in a hotel lobby.

To the OP. All combat sports have their pros and cons. Personally, I think boxing is better than BJJ in most situations outside of a 1on1 fight in an controlled environment.

With boxing you can end a fight much quicker, you can strike in close quarters like a bar where tables and chairs and other people could get in the way if the fight hits the ground. You can also fight multiple attackers much better with boxing than grappling. You also don't have to take someone down and be on the ground to end the fight, which is a very bad place to be in many situations.

Cons being that a grappler will likely beat a striker in a 1 on 1 fight in a controlled environment, I.E. a MMA match or a school yard type of fight. Of course the chances of you ending up fighting with a trained grappler outside of a sporting event aren't so high.

But bottom line is just like I always tell people asking me what they should train, I tell them to train whatever it is that they like enough to do at least 3x a week for an extended period of time. Otherwise, it doesn't matter if they trained the best combat sport under the best coach in the world, because they won't become good enough for it to matter.

So train whatever it is that you like, and stick with it. Then you're better off than the large majority of people out there.

[viajero]

So a lot of the thoughts on modern sport BJJ in this thread rang really true to me, and I finally listened to that interview Rio posted. As I get slightly better I'm realizing the guys I'm rolling with who are more experienced aren't just playing off their back or avoiding training takedowns with me to take it easy on a beginner, it's just the style of BJJ that they like training.

I could just go back to focusing only on boxing, but I enjoy certain aspects of grappling. What do you more experienced guys suggest? Check out the local MMA gym where the submission wrestling program should involve BJJ and wrestling, and also account for strikes? I wrestled a bit and I have to say I enjoyed shooting a double a lot more than what I'm doing in BJJ so far.

[nek]

(06-28-2015 01:08 PM)viajero Wrote:  

So a lot of the thoughts on modern sport BJJ in this thread rang really true to me, and I finally listened to that interview Rio posted. As I get slightly better I'm realizing the guys I'm rolling with who are more experienced aren't just playing off their back or avoiding training takedowns with me to take it easy on a beginner, it's just the style of BJJ that they like training.

I could just go back to focusing only on boxing, but I enjoy certain aspects of grappling. What do you more experienced guys suggest? Check out the local MMA gym where the submission wrestling program should involve BJJ and wrestling, and also account for strikes? I wrestled a bit and I have to say I enjoyed shooting a double a lot more than what I'm doing in BJJ so far.

I say the mma gym. Not only do you get the knowledge of all the disciplines, there's the unique knowledge of knowing how to blend them together ( i.e. setting up punches by faking a takedown, and the reverse). Plus, you'll know what's better for you and your body type (i.e., maybe you're lanky and it's better for you to keep a fight standing).

[WanderingSoul]

Just be sure the MMA gym has a legit GRAPPLING coach. A lot of MMA gyms have ex MMA fighters coaching their grappling classes, which isn't always a good thing. A lot of ex MMA guys, especially guys on the regional level, aren't that great of grapplers themselves.

[budoslavic]

(06-22-2015 10:06 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 07:51 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

If you are competitive, I would recommend BJJ first. Jiu-jitsu tournaments have age brackets and you can literally train and compete well into old age. No risk of concussions/brain injuries like getting hit in the head repeatedly.

You can train boxing in a safe manner, just as you can train BJJ in a safe manner. You can also train BJJ in a very unsafe manner and fuck your body up really good.

I know older guys who have trained BJJ for a long time, and they don't get brain injuries, but there is a shit load of torn ACLs and fucked up necks and backs.

I think the brain injury worry is way overblown for a boxer who doesn't plan to go pro or compete seriously in the amateurs.

And in my opinion, for BJJ to be effective, you have to train takedowns regularly, which really increases your chance of injury. If you train at a buttscooting school (a very large percentage of them these days) I don't see it as an effective martial art at all.

This is precisely why I was never interested in anything related to grappling arts such as BJJ and Judo.

A few years ago, I tried two free Judo classes so it could complement my karate training. But I had to stop as my body couldn't take the daily grindings of takedowns, sweeps, hip throws, breakfalls, etc.

However, I am still thankful in continuing my traditional martial arts training (karate, kobudo, batto & hapkido) as I enter my 24th year. It is really never too late to start training in striking arts as one gets older.

Over the last couple of years, I have been focusing on practical kata bunkai applications
and joint locks.

(Hapkido can also be very hard on one's body. Joint locks are extremely painful as well as leg sweeps, takedowns, etc. But I have found Hapkido to be beneficial as it complements my karate training very well.)

[Saweeep]

(04-21-2016 07:52 PM)budoslavic Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:06 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 07:51 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

If you are competitive, I would recommend BJJ first. Jiu-jitsu tournaments have age brackets and you can literally train and compete well into old age. No risk of concussions/brain injuries like getting hit in the head repeatedly.

You can train boxing in a safe manner, just as you can train BJJ in a safe manner. You can also train BJJ in a very unsafe manner and fuck your body up really good.

I know older guys who have trained BJJ for a long time, and they don't get brain injuries, but there is a shit load of torn ACLs and fucked up necks and backs.

I think the brain injury worry is way overblown for a boxer who doesn't plan to go pro or compete seriously in the amateurs.

And in my opinion, for BJJ to be effective, you have to train takedowns regularly, which really increases your chance of injury. If you train at a buttscooting school (a very large percentage of them these days) I don't see it as an effective martial art at all.

This is precisely why I was never interested in anything related to grappling arts such as BJJ and Judo.

A few years ago, I tried two free Judo classes so it could complement my karate training. But I had to stop as my body couldn't take the daily grindings of takedowns, sweeps, hip throws, breakfalls, etc.

However, I am still thankful in continuing my traditional martial arts training (karate, kobudo, batto & hapkido) as I enter my 24th year. It is really never too late to start training in striking arts as one gets older.

Over the last couple of years, I have been focusing on practical kata bunkai applications
and joint locks.

(Hapkido can also be very hard on one's body. Joint locks are extremely painful as well as leg sweeps, takedowns, etc. But I have found Hapkido to be beneficial as it complements my karate training very well.)

Are you trolling us with those videos?

Some of what Abernathy does is fair enough...lots of it is just impossible against someone who is actually trying to hurt you.

Chinese Police Hapkido??? FFS.

[cascadecombo]

I'd almost be willing to say he is.

After 2 days it's natural for someones body to be sore from doing a new type of movement/exercise. Isn't that something most people have martial arts would know? That'd be similar to a judoka taking up boxing and quitting saying his shoulders hurt too much due to the rigorous training.