[toroespañol]

I just saw a Gallup survey about patriotism that made me think. The question was: If there was a war involving your country, would you participate in it?


I compiled a summary:

(ranked by net balance)

94-05 Fiji [+89]
94-06 Morocco [+88]
85-01 Azerbaijan [+84]
89-07 Pakistan [+82]
89-09 Vietnam [+80]
84-08 Papua New Guinea [+76]
86-12 Bangladesh [+74]
72-13 Thailand [+59]
76-18 Georgia [+58]
75-17 India [+58]
76-20 Afghanistan [+56]
69-13 Kazakhstan [+56]
74-20 Finland [+54]
70-17 Indonesia [+53]
66-13 Israel [+53]
73-21 Turkey [+52]
72-23 Armenia [+49]
71-23 China [+48]
63-18 Malaysia [+45]
70-26 Philippines [+44]
69-27 Kenya [+42]
55-15 Sweden [+40]
59-20 Russia [+39]
62-24 Ukraine [+38]
66-30 Lebanon [+36]
58-24 Kosovo [+34]
64-32 Panama [+32]
61-32 Peru [+29]
56-27 Palestinian Territories [+29]
54-27 Greece [+27]
61-36 Colombia [+25]
54-35 Ecuador [+19]
55-39 Bosnia & Herzegovina [+16]
56-41 Mexico [+15]
41-27 Latvia [+14]
47-34 Poland [+13]
44-31 USA [+13]
46-36 Serbia [+10]
50-46 Nigeria [+4]
48-44 Brazil [+4]

43-43 Argentina [+/-0]
37-37 Denmark [+/-0]

38-40 Ireland [-2]
38-41 Romania [-3]
39-47 Switzerland [-8]
42-50 South Korea [-8]
38-49 Macedonia [-9]
30-43 Australia [-13]
30-45 Canada [-15]
29-44 France [-15]
28-47 Portugal [-19]
25-47 Bulgaria [-22]
27-51 UK [-24]
26-52 Iceland [-26]
21-49 Spain [-28]
10-43 Japan [-33]
23-57 Hong Kong [-34]
19-56 Belgium [-37]
23-64 Czech Republic [-41]
21-62 Austria [-41]
18-62 Germany [-44]
20-68 Italy [-48]
15-64 Netherlands [-49]


In my opinion, there are no big surprises, in general we can see that Western countries are less patriotic than the rest of the world...

Unexpectedly the only two countries of Western Europe with more than 50% of people willing to fight for their country are Finland and Sweden.

Muslim countries are very patriotic (Morocco 94, Pakistan 89%...). Eastern europeans are much more patriotic (Ukraine 62%, Russia 59%, Bosnia 55%, Poland 47%, Serbia 46%....) than western europeans (Netherlands only 15%, Germany 18%, Belgium 19%, Italy 20%...).

What do you think? Do you agree?

[turkishcandy]

Only 500 years ago when there was the incentive of women and plunder. Now, fuck no.

EDIT: Defending my country is different. I don't think anyone would say no that. The question implies going to some other land to fight.

[Luvianka]

If the war is fair, yes. If my country were invaded by a foreign country, I'd draft in the regular army or in any militia created among people.
If my country participated in a coalition of the good will to overthrow a foreign dictator or if my country were involved in an artificial conflict cretaed by the elites to push a global agenda, no. Big No!

[Ambact]

(06-14-2015 06:37 PM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

Only 500 years ago when there was the incentive of women and plunder. Now, fuck no.

Oh but some (many?) soldiers nowadays still plunder and rape! Think Iraq for plundering and central Africa for rapings... and Afghanistan for both!

[Saweeep]

Patriotism and being willing to get shot to facilitate a politician's wet dream or whatever are different things.

[el mechanico]

A better question.. Would you fight for your county?

[Driesinator]

The only reason why i would join the army would be for the military training and the things they teach you there.

But fighting and putting my life on the line? No, especially not with the way things stand right now.

[Eskhander]

Against whom? Or is it who?

[Laner]

(06-14-2015 07:22 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

A better question.. Would you fight for your county?

That was my first thought when I read this thread. I would fight for my community no question, as it would be likely that for whatever reason it was necessary would more likely align with my own ideas.

If my country was invaded through Newfoundland I would have a hard time signing up here in Vancouver right away. If Victoria was invaded, then yes.

The reason that Finland and Sweden are so patriotic is that they have found themselves in a position of losing their land many times before. Especially Finland, which was recent.

[Phoenix]

Not only wouldn't I fight, but I couldn't care less if it was conquered. The new rulers might make a better go of the place.

[AntiTrace]

If you would rather live on your knees than die on your feet you have no place in the lineage of men.

[T and A Man]

My country now belongs to women and fags.

Its theirs now, they can fight to keep it that way.

Whether its the current mob, or new Chinese overlords, I'm still a pack mule where my surplus will go to others.

I'd rather go fishing.

[emilian]

We are living in a world-wide village now. no reason to fight.

[el mechanico]

(06-14-2015 07:35 PM)Laner Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 07:22 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

A better question.. Would you fight for your county?

That was my first thought when I read this thread. I would fight for my community no question, as it would be likely that for whatever reason it was necessary would more likely align with my own ideas.

If my country was invaded through Newfoundland I would have a hard time signing up here in Vancouver right away. If Victoria was invaded, then yes.

The reason that Finland and Sweden are so patriotic is that they have found themselves in a position of losing their land many times before. Especially Finland, which was recent.

Well you'd just be like * yawn* then go to the garage and start pulling the guns down. Maybe buying some more ammo, make sure the old jeep out back runs etc..

I don't think the US would be cool with anyone invading the maritimes. Scotian would complain but besides that they would be knocking on your door in days if that were to happen.

I said it many times. Canada needs to become part of US.

[El Chinito loco]

If we're on the precipice again in some situation like WW2 where it's very clear who the aggressors are and what the situation is I think it's the duty of most able bodied American men to fight. Myself included.

It's highly unlikely we'll ever see that sort of situation again anytime in our lifetime. All the rest of the recent wars the U.S. has been involved in the past 60 years have all been pretty shady. The Korean war was semi-legit until it started to go off the rails with McArthur trying to escalate with nuclear carpet bombing and what not.

[AntiTrace]

(06-14-2015 08:32 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

If we're on the precipice again in some situation like WW2 where it's very clear who the aggressors are and what the situation is I think it's the duty of most able bodied American men to fight. Myself included.

It's highly unlikely we'll ever see that sort of situation again anytime in our lifetime. All the rest of the recent wars the U.S. has been involved in the past 60 years have all been pretty shady. The Korean war was semi-legit until it started to go off the rails with McArthur trying to escalate with nuclear carpet bombing and what not.

We will see World War 3 within our lifetimes. Unfortunately.

[El Chinito loco]

(06-14-2015 06:31 PM)toroespañol Wrote:  

89-09 Vietnam [+80]

Still keeping it real.

Quote:

Unexpectedly the only two countries of Western Europe with more than 50% of people willing to fight for their country are Finland and Sweden.

What do you think?

For Fins it's not that unexpected. They performed admirably in the Winter War against the Soviets back in the day. They are also right on that border with a great power and have been invaded multiple times in history.

[Swooper]

The United States is a poor imitation of what it once was. No reason to fight for it now. In fact I would actually prefer to exchange American citizenship for Canadian due to the USA's insane tax laws towards expats.

[TheWastelander]

(06-14-2015 07:45 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

If you would rather live on your knees than die on your feet you have no place in the lineage of men.

A truly great speech made at a time when America had an enemy that posed an existential threat to us and spread their poisonous ideology all around the world, bringing death and misery wherever they went.

Contrast that with today, where the enemy exists because of our own colossal mistakes and fecklessness. Where despite several examples of how interfering in the sovereignty of other states that posed little threat to us and toppling their governments led not to peace or security, but the rise of a group of butchers who were worse than those we took out, we continue to make those same mistakes.

So when the question is asked "would you be willing to fight for your country?" it should be met with another question before you give an answer:

"Against who and for what reason?"

[samsamsam]

Depends is it Pearl Harbor or Middle East adventure for oil?

[Laner]

(06-14-2015 07:55 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 07:35 PM)Laner Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 07:22 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

A better question.. Would you fight for your county?

That was my first thought when I read this thread. I would fight for my community no question, as it would be likely that for whatever reason it was necessary would more likely align with my own ideas.

If my country was invaded through Newfoundland I would have a hard time signing up here in Vancouver right away. If Victoria was invaded, then yes.

The reason that Finland and Sweden are so patriotic is that they have found themselves in a position of losing their land many times before. Especially Finland, which was recent.

Well you'd just be like * yawn* then go to the garage and start pulling the guns down. Maybe buying some more ammo, make sure the old jeep out back runs etc..

I don't think the US would be cool with anyone invading the maritimes. Scotian would complain but besides that they would be knocking on your door in days if that were to happen.

I said it many times. Canada needs to become part of US.

Most likely it will some place like Baffin Island* that gets invaded first. Shit, there is probably already a Chinese mining company up there digging up the ground undetected.

I would be OK with Canada and USA coming together, but I will have some major stipulations.

* Baffin Island: Over twice the size of Great Britain, population 11,000.

[QuietDog]

Lately, I've really strongly been considering joining the Armed Forces once I've finished Uni but not really out of any sense of patriotism but mostly for the ways it can benefit me.

If at some point in the future Canada or even the Western world was really under threat WWII style or if ISIS somehow gains enough strength (pretty much impossible I know), I would definitely give it some thought. But if there was ever a high probability of death or injury I'd probably try to avoid it. I'm out to get mine, not sacrifice my life for a country that doesn't appreciate me.

[speakeasy]

I think major wars are on the way out. Other than skirmishes in the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa I don't think we'll see any full-scale wars between major powers ever again. War has been eliminated in Europe even though their history has been nonstop war for thousands of years. There are no inter-country wars waging anywhere in the Americas, though there are internal matters such as marxist rebels and drug cartels. But I don't see Mexico going to war with Honduras El Salvador or Brazil against Argentina or anything like that. I don't think China cares to fight anyone, they are pragmatists. Japan? Lol. The fight is out of them. Very unlikely they'll be another war between a major East Asian power. N. Korea is the biggest threat, but I think they are paper tigers. Kim Jung is living the good life and he isn't about to lose that.

I don't see Russia and the West going to war. I think what we'll have mostly going forward is containment of hot areas using drones and smaller teams of special ops to assassinate key figures.

Some people think mankind will self-destruct, but I don't agree at all. I don't think there will be a WWIII. I think the future will be peaceful and all these other problem areas of the world will eventually go the way of Europe and the Americas.

As for fighting myself, if I felt there was a serious threat to us and our way of life, I'd be willing, although I don't think any branch would take me at my age. But there is no serious threat to us other than the ones we willfully stir up.

[N°6]

(06-14-2015 07:18 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Patriotism and being willing to get shot to facilitate a politician's wet dream or whatever are different things.

That is bad enough but the reality is probably much worse in that the armed forces are more likely to be fighting to expand the central banking system and the City's and Wall Street's profit maximisation in new markets that for its homeland.

I was set to become an army officer for most of my life but Tony Blair put a stop to these plans. Then I discovered that many of these so-called 'Axis of Evil' countries did not have a central bank debt system.

Finland has been invaded by the USSR in recent times and Sweden secretly sent troops to Finland to help in the Scandinavian defence so it is quite easy to understand why people there see national service as a patriotic duty. When it comes to the UK and US, when was the last time these countries were under threat of foreign invasion (unarmed mass-immigration excepted)? Yet the UK and US are perhaps the most bellicose nations that have ever existed.

[Comte De St. Germain]

If anything abysmal mortality rates pay you with nothing but the courtesy of the proverbial fuck you and shit treatment from the American military. Vets don't get much if their only source of income is military service. I also see no WWIII so double no in that regard.

Also since mercenaries have been outlawed for over a decade now and PMCs won't except someone without exceptional experience I see no value in joining up to have a better future with a life dedicated to combat and an extremely strong income. So triple no.

If this was right after WWII during the days of my gramps I would be going in simply on that last point alone. I would get a hefty sum after getting training and serving then going into the mercenary trade making bank even with abysmal mortality rates.

Worst case scenario I die in a blaze of glory with real men to my right and left. Best case I would be filthy rich with a rocking body from years of adventure. Nowadays that dream is dead. Sometimes I even wish an old school war would break out and mercenaries weren't outlawed so I could live out this life, but sadly this world doesn't have that same spice of adventure. Though there are somewhat adequate replacements.