[Simeon_Strangelight]

(06-12-2015 08:57 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  

Getting permanent alimony means never retiring, working until the day you die, and never getting paid less than you were paid when you were divorced. Getting married is inviting a third party (the government) into your relationship. And this third party controls everything (money, assets, access to your children), even your freedom if they want. It's been said over and over again because it's true:

Don't.....get.....married

Most governments are making it very hard to even raise a child without interference, but so far it's still possible to avoid most pitfalls - especially if you move abroad.

[RockHard]

(06-11-2015 04:09 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 03:09 PM)Menace Wrote:  

After the first divorce, this man should have been in the office of the top asset protection attorney in his state getting his act together. All his assets (tangible and intangible) into LLC's and trusts. He owns nothing. Of course, you need to have a killer instinct which this guy totally lacked. If someone is in a prison of his own mind, there is very little that can be done. The first time was tragic, so there is no excuse for the second time.

This is my plan before marriage, but I always hear that this shit isn't bulletproof.

Anyone here do take these steps and survived a divorce?

I knew an old man who remarried after his first wife died. The 2nd wife was a crazy ass gold digger and his family was all warning him off, but he wouldn't hear about it. He did take the step of protecting his assets in a trust.

It didn't matter. She turned on the tears, threatened to divorce him, used every trick in the book and basically made him miserable until he agreed to dissolve the trust.

When he finally passed away, she was cleaning out closets, throwing away his stuff while his daughter and granddaughter sat with his body waiting for the funeral home to pick it up. The hospice nurse was in tears she was so angry with how the wife was acting.

[Samseau]

Crazy story. His first mistake was marrying without making sure she wanted to have kids. I meet so many career whores nowadays who NEVER want kids. So many beta blue pill men believe, "oh women just say they don't want kids, they'll have them when the time is right." It's fucking retarded - we have stats showing the birthrates are plummeting. These women are DEAD serious about never having kids. They have been rendered infertile by the education complex.

His second mistake was getting married again - he merely needed to find a woman to cohabitate with and have kids with. A concubine. Signing that marriage contract = putting your balls on the chopping block.

Regardless, I suspect these stories are far more common that most men realize - the Robin Williams of this world typically do not share their pain with others before they end it.

[DickDastardly]

delete

[travolta]

that sucks. This is why guys with lots of money need to protect themselves against divorce rape by setting up elaborate tax structures that others, including the U.S. cannot touch...

[samsamsam]

Well, I still plan on having kids. Surely, there must be a way to figure this stuff out.

Cleanslate had a good thread also about marrying. I really wish there was some decent mechanisms to protect assets.

Who on RVF wants to hold all my bitcoins? I don't have any.

[Menace]

Gringuito those are all very good points. I wasn't aware that judges could do such things even to trusts. I wonder if there is a way to structure things so that you could potentially remove the case into federal court so that you have a proper court of law. The family courts are courts of equity, which means it's whatever the judge thinks is fair.

I do want to point out one important fact from that Michigan case that you cited:

Quote:

Sands v. Sands. The landmark Michigan 'hidden assets' case is Sands v. Sands, 192 Mich. App. 698, 482 N.W.2d 203 (1992), aff'd 448 Mich. 30, 497 N.W.2d 493 (1993). The case explains the procedural steps necessary to find and use hidden assets to increase the marital estate. The defendant, Mr. Sands, deliberately hid assets during the primary trial period.

So the defendant tried to hide assets AFTER legal proceedings had already started. That's definitely a big no-no. I was thinking of a situation when the trusts, etc. were established well in advance of any first or second marriage. But maybe even that is not safe. Madness.

Samsamsam, you can have kids. Child support is a matter of state statute, so no trust or pre-nup is ever going to supersede that. I think this is actually a large mental block a lot of guys have: you do NOT need to get married to have kids. Live with their mother, be monogamous (kidding!), have a wedding ceremony that she surely wants, but do not actually get legally married. Don't live in a state that has common law marriage.

[Gringuito]

(06-12-2015 01:13 PM)Menace Wrote:  

So the defendant tried to hide assets AFTER legal proceedings had already started. That's definitely a big no-no. I was thinking of a situation when the trusts, etc. were established well in advance of any first or second marriage. But maybe even that is not safe. Madness.

Remember the Donald Sterling ruling that his estranged wife got $2.6 million back from his mistress? The concept was that money in the marriage (in California) wasn't his to give, it was joint property. So if you try to create a LLC or trust while you are married and move money into it without the consent of your wife, it could be viewed as invalid. Even if she gives her consent at the time, she could later say she was uninformed or unrepresented properly during a divorce. Think for a second about how crazy it is having to ask your wife permission for any expenses. The 2.6M in gifts for Donald Sterling was the same as $20 to the average person.

Now if your talking about creating a trust before you are married, this would work fine normally. It would not be part of the marital estate in any case as long as it wasn't commingled.

[fortysix]

What about the following fact pattern:

Hold some business assets in trust in offshore jurisdiction with no fraudulent conveyance statutes (think British Virgin islands, but not exactly). If you are getting divorced, have trust transfer business assets to different (false) person. When judge asks you to split said business assets, throw your hands in the air and say "I no longer own them!" - US has no jurisdiction over assets, and the judge doesnt issue a judgment against you because you had the assets in the trust prior to your divorce (testify they were held there for tax purposes, and corporate management purposes), so you werent committing fraud. Further, wife cant bring judgment in the offshore country, because there is no fraudulent conveyance statute there.

[Druber]

Slightly related, Terrence Popp (YouTube), was mentioning guys from the military were being cleaned out by their SO whilst being deployed (ie taking out loans, etc). He sets out preventive measures, which is worth looking into if you're serving.

[samsamsam]

I couldn't really find a thread that talked about divorces - most seem to be specific to a particular situation.

My UPS delivery guy is pretty cool. Just found out that he is divorced for a while now. His wife turned his daughter against him (they haven't spoke in 7 years or something) and his son may not be his.

He is a pretty good guy, we chat every now and then when I offer him cold bottled water.

I'm not down or sad over it, but it is a little bit of bummer that a cool guy like that got fucked. Granted, I don't know his whole story. Who knows what he has done but he is cool with me.

Just get a pre-nup and paternity test guys. No ifs ands or buts...

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(08-10-2015 09:39 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I couldn't really find a thread that talked about divorces - most seem to be specific to a particular situation.

My UPS delivery guy is pretty cool. Just found out that he is divorced for a while now. His wife turned his daughter against him (they haven't spoke in 7 years or something) and his son may not be his.

He is a pretty good guy, we chat every now and then when I offer him cold bottled water.

I'm not down or sad over it, but it is a little bit of bummer that a cool guy like that got fucked. Granted, I don't know his whole story. Who knows what he has done but he is cool with me.

Just get a pre-nup and paternity test guys. No ifs ands or buts...

A pre-nup won't shield you from cuckold children. As soon as you are married, then any child popped out by your wife is automatically yours.

My recommendation is to not get married and have a paternity test done before accepting fatherhood. Of course most Red Pill guys with Game are by far better equipped than Blue Pill men to even be conventionally married.

I personally refuse to marry on principle - that contract has become too rotten for men.

[HankMoody]

Some takeaways from this...

1. Don't get married. Or if you do, be extremely selective about it. For most guys, it doesn't make sense. Women like the idea of a wedding and honeymoon, but most aren't actually committed to being a wife and mother. That would require a life that doesn't involve posting selfies on Facebook for likes, and not fucking Dave guy with tattoos from Tinder who lives at home, but is SO HAWT.

Women are a depreciating asset. You are not. Ten years ago Britney Spears was the hottest woman on the planet. Now she's washed up, has two kids, and is barely a six. That dorky guy Justin Timberlake who she cheated on and broke up with? Dude is on top of the world.

Be extremely careful with marriage. It's one of the biggest investments you will ever make, and the returns on the investment are extremely low. Not only is the return low, but it's an arrangement that can devastate your life.

2. You can divorce your wife, but you can't divorce your kids. Once you have kids, that woman will be in your life forever.

3. Be self employed, save money, and have passive streams of income. I can't be fired from my job. I don't feel like working today so I'm not. Once you're self employed, you're in charge of your own life.

4. Women are just not worth sweating. What's funny is most of us came to this forum because we have no success with women. Once your game is on point, you realize it's not hard. After you've gotten enough bangs, you soon realize that women are vapid, insecure, emotional creatures. They're not worth putting a lot of effort into and certainly not worth throwing money at. And then the ironic thing is your lack of effort and natural aloofness results in women sweating you. I can't remember the last time I thought "What should I text back?" "Does she like me?" "I wonder what she's up to?". Half that time I don't even respond to text messages because I'm busy doing other stuff. This drives them bonkers. I'm now regularly bombarded with text messages like "nice of you not to answer" or "Why aren't you texting me back? Can I come over?" I don't really care, because there are way more important and fulfilling things in life than women.

5. You know what's hard about being self employed, single, no kids, and having money in the bank? Absolutely nothing.

There's no need to rush into relationships, marriage, and children.

[Off The Reservation]

There's a song about this guy.

"And here I sit so patiently
Waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of
Going through all these things twice"