[~wrIghter~]

Sounds like things are picking up out there in Poland! Enjoyed reading the report, its only a matter of time before the lay comes. Enjoy it bro, I'll try holding it down here in ATL, haha.

[262]

(07-13-2015 02:17 PM)~wrIghter~ Wrote:  

Sounds like things are picking up out there in Poland! Enjoyed reading the report, its only a matter of time before the lay comes. Enjoy it bro, I'll try holding it down here in ATL, haha.

Thanks wrighter. Keep your head up in the ATL.

Btw, I actually just scheduled the second date with the Central European. Now to prepare for the prey ... muahahahaha

[virus]

Thanks for this thread, really. I'm 20 this year and this is exactly what I have planned, saving and investing in ETFs and relocating. Controlling the urge to spend can be quite hard at times and the vision of a better life almost seems impossible but seeing you actually doing this inspires me to persist.

[262]

(07-16-2015 12:21 AM)virus Wrote:  

Thanks for this thread, really. I'm 20 this year and this is exactly what I have planned, saving and investing in ETFs and relocating. Controlling the urge to spend can be quite hard at times and the vision of a better life almost seems impossible but seeing you actually doing this inspires me to persist.

Thanks virus. It would be interesting to see how guys in their early 20s' balance saving and investing for long-term "Game" with working on short-term "Game." I realize both aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but since I only discovered Game in my late 20's, I didn't have this issue, for better or worse. So let us know your progress too!

[262]

One quick stream-of-consciousness counter-thought to the idea that working on your Game in a harsh environment is best: here in Poland, I've found that I've been getting enough "air time" with girls that I get more experiences to learn from. I suppose in a harsher environment I'd just have to work harder and smarter to get as much "air time," but I'd counter that there's a limit to how much time and smarts you can muster just for Game, never mind the rest of your life.

[lavidaloca]

Easiest way to save a lot is to live at home. I moved back home after school and the amount of savings on housing / food is substantial on a yearly basis. It's not ideal to be my age living at home but great for saving / investing.

[262]

(07-16-2015 08:34 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Easiest way to save a lot is to live at home. I moved back home after school and the amount of savings on housing / food is substantial on a yearly basis. It's not ideal to be my age living at home but great for saving / investing.

In between living at home with the parents and living alone, on the saving versus Game perspective, is also having roommates.

In other news, the "red-pill" Central European flaked. Sent a classic and unrelated ping text this morning to check her temperature, and no response. So I knew the chances of a flake just went up. I go anyway, since I figure I'll do some daygame if she flakes, and sure enough, she does. No warning, no nothing. Hours later, she texts something about being sick and forgetting; most importantly, no offer to make it better. Pretty sure she's leaving tomorrow, plus she's "sick," so no hope for even a hate bang either. Next. Kicking myself for not going for the SDDL (same day delay lay - meet her in the day, but too early for an SDL, so get the number and set something up for that evening).

To any "red-pill" ladies lurking on these forums: this is why we will assume you are not red-pill, no matter how much you say it to be so. We will judge you on your actions alone. The only excuse for flaking is something so dramatic that it's incapacitating. In the case of the woman above, clearly she wasn't incapacitated, so she gets next'ed. It's the same as not showing up for a job: do it unannounced, and don't be surprised if you're demoted or fired.

In either case, I took the negative energy from this experience and converted it into something positive: motivation to do daygame. Had a great set with a local Polish dancer - number-closed her. She was so hot that even the normally-timid Polish guys were verbally noticing her. Then, in the next set with a 7, my Yad-stop didn't even stop her. Talk about highs and lows!

One thing that might have helped me in the set with the Polish dancer was that I had my nice sunglasses on until she hooked. This may have helped the switch into rapport after I knew attraction was done.

One question that came to my head as I finished "venting" my energy through daygame was - how do I know when I've done too many approaches - that I'm coming across as a robot? I suppose if the girls react with a robotic no, I'll know I'm done. An interesting problem, since I've never had this much daytime to myself, and with nightgame, it's only on at certain hours and days.

[samsamsam]

(07-16-2015 08:34 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Easiest way to save a lot is to live at home. I moved back home after school and the amount of savings on housing / food is substantial on a yearly basis. It's not ideal to be my age living at home but great for saving / investing.

I think it is key while you are saving to be making some smart investments. It may be hard to just put all your money into index funds and grow it fast enough. I said may.

You might have to make some smart specific stock picks or use the capital to buy and sell stuff, etc.

Need to put the money to work.

[Driesinator]

(07-16-2015 12:24 PM)262 Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 08:34 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Easiest way to save a lot is to live at home. I moved back home after school and the amount of savings on housing / food is substantial on a yearly basis. It's not ideal to be my age living at home but great for saving / investing.

In between living at home with the parents and living alone, on the saving versus Game perspective, is also having roommates.

In other news, the "red-pill" Central European flaked. Sent a classic and unrelated ping text this morning to check her temperature, and no response. So I knew the chances of a flake just went up. I go anyway, since I figure I'll do some daygame if she flakes, and sure enough, she does. No warning, no nothing. Hours later, she texts something about being sick and forgetting; most importantly, no offer to make it better. Pretty sure she's leaving tomorrow, plus she's "sick," so no hope for even a hate bang either. Next. Kicking myself for not going for the SDDL (same day delay lay - meet her in the day, but too early for an SDL, so get the number and set something up for that evening).

To any "red-pill" ladies lurking on these forums: this is why we will assume you are not red-pill, no matter how much you say it to be so. We will judge you on your actions alone. The only excuse for flaking is something so dramatic that it's incapacitating. In the case of the woman above, clearly she wasn't incapacitated, so she gets next'ed. It's the same as not showing up for a job: do it unannounced, and don't be surprised if you're demoted or fired.

In either case, I took the negative energy from this experience and converted it into something positive: motivation to do daygame. Had a great set with a local Polish dancer - number-closed her. She was so hot that even the normally-timid Polish guys were verbally noticing her. Then, in the next set with a 7, my Yad-stop didn't even stop her. Talk about highs and lows!

One thing that might have helped me in the set with the Polish dancer was that I had my nice sunglasses on until she hooked. This may have helped the switch into rapport after I knew attraction was done.

One question that came to my head as I finished "venting" my energy through daygame was - how do I know when I've done too many approaches - that I'm coming across as a robot? I suppose if the girls react with a robotic no, I'll know I'm done. An interesting problem, since I've never had this much daytime to myself, and with nightgame, it's only on at certain hours and days.

Keep going brother.
If you ever need some motivation to approach , check this link :
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/04/...verywhere/

If you do find yourself getting flaked on too much, see if you can change something about your looks or re-evaluate your Game.

Just one tip i'm going to give : Don't focus too much on 'red-pill' and 'Game' stuff. Find out what works for you and go with the flow. Polish girls like 'fun' guys who don't take everything too seriously, atleast the young ones.

Also, Poland is pretty much dead right now it seems, all i see here in Lublin are old people. Some cute girls but they all have boyfriends or are here to visit family.

If i were you i would look at Ukraine, book a trip out to Odessa or Lviv for a week and see how you like it there.

When September rolls around and college students start flooding in, you can come back to Poland , it will be better everywhere in Polish cities.

[lavidaloca]

(07-16-2015 01:46 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 08:34 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Easiest way to save a lot is to live at home. I moved back home after school and the amount of savings on housing / food is substantial on a yearly basis. It's not ideal to be my age living at home but great for saving / investing.

I think it is key while you are saving to be making some smart investments. It may be hard to just put all your money into index funds and grow it fast enough. I said may.

You might have to make some smart specific stock picks or use the capital to buy and sell stuff, etc.

Need to put the money to work.

Tough to say. A lot of depends on how your number is. If you want to have $10,000,000 at 35... you are probably going to have to make great picks and pile a bunch of money into those pick(s) and get extremely lucky. More than likely your picks won't be so great though.

If you want $500,000 it's a different story all together. A guy living at home with an above average wage ($75,000) for example could foreseeably do that by early 30s without too much trouble assuming a high savings rate just by doing index funds if he makes some lifestyle sacrifices. I spend about $6,000-$9,000 a year on travel at the moment. Outside of that my living expenditures are around $750 per month. It makes it pretty easy to save a nice amount of money. I still manage 6-8 weeks vacation a year as well where I get to let loose. (My Christmas vacation is typically paid by family as my dad likes to take everyone away for 2 weeks).

Roommates is a good solution but even then if you are in a high cost area like Toronto its still going to be damn expensive unless you manage to put 4 people in a 2 bedroom.

[262]

(07-16-2015 06:28 PM)Driesinator Wrote:  

Keep going brother.
If you ever need some motivation to approach , check this link :
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/04/...verywhere/

If you do find yourself getting flaked on too much, see if you can change something about your looks or re-evaluate your Game.

Just one tip i'm going to give : Don't focus too much on 'red-pill' and 'Game' stuff. Find out what works for you and go with the flow. Polish girls like 'fun' guys who don't take everything too seriously, atleast the young ones.

Also, Poland is pretty much dead right now it seems, all i see here in Lublin are old people. Some cute girls but they all have boyfriends or are here to visit family.

If i were you i would look at Ukraine, book a trip out to Odessa or Lviv for a week and see how you like it there.

When September rolls around and college students start flooding in, you can come back to Poland , it will be better everywhere in Polish cities.

Thanks for the motivation man. In set, my wings have said that I come across as a pretty upbeat guy, so no worries there. My wings here sometimes get flaked on too, so while that's no excuse not to improve, I'm pretty sure it'll always be a part of the Game.

As for Poland being dead, I think you've more or less confirmed what Roosh said in this video (don't go to EE during the summer).

I figured this was going to happen (I attempted to compensate for it, will reveal how later), but the larger point of me being here was to see if I could live here (confirmed).

Also, as I mentioned before, starting mid-next-month, I'll be in the FSU proper.

[dontuan]

Quote:

I figured this was going to happen (I attempted to compensate for it, will reveal how later), but the larger point of me being here was to see if I could live here (confirmed).

Also, as I mentioned before, starting mid-next-month, I'll be in the FSU proper.

I have been following this thread and you've got an interesting plan there. The only concern I have is if you end up liking it how are you going to stay long term in a place like the Ukraine and other FSU states?

Do a search and you'll see that figuring out a legit path to residency in Ukraine has been discussed ad nauseam on many message boards. Other than getting a work permit for a job, school enrollment or marrying a local, there doesn't seem to be a way around the 90 day in/out rule.

[262]

(07-17-2015 03:36 AM)dontuan Wrote:  

I have been following this thread and you've got an interesting plan there. The only concern I have is if you end up liking it how are you going to stay long term in a place like the Ukraine and other FSU states?

Do a search and you'll see that figuring out a legit path to residency in Ukraine has been discussed ad nauseam on many message boards. Other than getting a work permit for a job, school enrollment or marrying a local, there doesn't seem to be a way around the 90 day in/out rule.

Good question. Will probably cross that bridge when I get to it. Obviously would rather teach English or learn Russian than marry a local that quickly!

[aphelion]

It seems like you gave up on Poland in record time. What in the world were you expecting?

[262]

(07-17-2015 06:51 AM)aphelion Wrote:  

It seems like you gave up on Poland in record time. What in the world were you expecting?

I wouldn't say I gave up. I just want to explore my options, and test the livability of these places before planting my flag. Besides, I'm from America, so I think everyone outside it lives in grass and mud huts

In other words, I'm the guy at the new grocery store who stands in front of the yogurt section for five minutes, debating in his head which one he's going to buy. Once I make that grocery store my regular though, I'm also the guy who buys the same things so quickly and mindlessly that I only leave dust clouds in my wake.

[samsamsam]

I can understand if you just want to Baskin Robbins pink spoon test out some places before settling down into one for a longer period of time. You seem fairly balanced (i.e. not crazy or insane or a raging asshole), so you know that it might take a little work. If you have the willpower to save and invest to get to the point of being financially free, you will find your pace/rhythm and make this adventure work also.

[peterfoo22]

Hey 262,

Have you considered living Ukraine?

I've been to both Ukraine and Poland with the current exchange rate Ukraine is actually cheaper and has hotter girls.

I plan to live there 6 months out of the year coming next year.

You might want to also consider possibly teach English as a side job. Honestly it gets pretty boring doing nothing all day, and also you can pipeline girls and make a few bucks.


Just food for thought.

[Travesty]

(07-16-2015 06:25 AM)262 Wrote:  

One quick stream-of-consciousness counter-thought to the idea that working on your Game in a harsh environment is best: here in Poland, I've found that I've been getting enough "air time" with girls that I get more experiences to learn from. I suppose in a harsher environment I'd just have to work harder and smarter to get as much "air time," but I'd counter that there's a limit to how much time and smarts you can muster just for Game, never mind the rest of your life.

Harsh environments give you the guts to keep approaching when things get bad and force you to work out, dress better, and have better posture. Also when many of the girls have shit attitudes I often find myself raising my standards higher because if a 6 is gonna be bitch anyways might as well go for the 8.

Easy environments I bet would give you a nicer opinion of the opposite sex in general which is healthy. I think for any newer player an easy environment is by FAR the better option.

[262]

(07-17-2015 09:16 PM)peterfoo22 Wrote:  

Hey 262,

Have you considered living Ukraine?

I've been to both Ukraine and Poland with the current exchange rate Ukraine is actually cheaper and has hotter girls.

I plan to live there 6 months out of the year coming next year.

You might want to also consider possibly teach English as a side job. Honestly it gets pretty boring doing nothing all day, and also you can pipeline girls and make a few bucks.


Just food for thought.

Thanks peterfoo22. I have considered Ukraine, and I might as well reveal that it's the FSU country I'm planning to go to mid-next month. Will reveal the city on PM only to repped members who ask, to prevent possible lurking haters from following me. As I mentioned before, if I want to stay in Ukraine, I'd consider teaching English to get a visa.

On that note, I think this thread has completed the purpose of its title. I can see that if I were to continue pro-actively posting to it, it would be more oriented towards location data-sheets rather than saving/investing/quitting/relocating. I think it'd be best if I posted those location data-sheets separately, adding to those that already exist. I also don't want to feed any narcissism in me, and become the social media attention-whore I despise.

That being said, if questions about saving/investing/quitting/relocating do pop up in replies below, or via PM, I'll gladly answer them.

My reply to another OP's thread asking how to save/invest/quit/relocate provides a great final summary to this thread, and is exactly what I intended: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-49034-...pid1064478

Finally, to answer the question, was it worth it for me? As you might guess from previous posts - hell yes.

[kotae]

Hey 262 thanks for posting your journey to greener pastures here! I really found your links to MMM and the math behind those retirement figures helpful. Can't believe with all the time I spent on geometric series in high school and uni financial classes they never taught such a simple yet life changing calculation! So this combined with a conversation a few weeks ago with a friend from Qatar (who reminded me that there's no income tax in the Middle East) gave me an idea like this:

Get a decent paying engineering job (related to oil) in the UAE. Assuming an average wage of around US100k-120k/year (based on Payscale), I imagine one could save about 70-90k per year. With 7% average gains (remember all tax free!) this leads to about 970k-1.25M in 10 years. The alternative would be to work a similar job in Alberta and save a bit less even with maxing out my RRSP (Canadian equivalent of 401k), but not a dramatic difference.

Move to a place like Taiwan (which I really enjoyed from my last visit) where one can easily live off of US30k/year, which is much less than 25x savings. Meanwhile, keeping that cash stashed in a Swiss bank account so I don't get taxed for investment earnings at their source (Switzerland) while getting minimal to no tax in Taiwan or wherever else I end up.


My question would be what do you think of this plan? From your experience are there any factors that I haven't accounted for that I should?

A little background about myself if it helps: I'm a student right now with an upcoming work term in the Alberta oil sands, and visited Taiwan before and loved it. Being CBC going to Taiwan would go against Roosh's "visit a place where you don't look like a local" concept, but I'm pretty tall for an Asian (6'1"), and I've done things like use imperial units on purpose to asking if they can read some Chinese signs for me etc. Basically what I'm getting at is they find out I'm CBC pretty quickly. Plus the lack of a language barrier also helps me socialize. However if worse comes to worse I could just go somewhere else. I'm also a Canadian citizen and from my research Canada won't tax me as long as I'm working in the UAE with no residential ties to Canada.

Also, as a worst case scenario question, do you or anyone know if stashing my cash in a Swiss bank account protects my money in a divorce should I be dumb enough to marry (hey I'm admitting I might fall for it, want to be sure just in case!)

And thanks again for sharing info and your experience. It's definitely given me the push to contemplate trying something as bold as this!

[Jack Of All Trades]

As someone working in the oil and gas industry, your expectations of stable 6 figure salary for 10 years is ridiculous. As an engineer, your big cash is probably going to be paid from bonuses, overtime, and uplifts, not salary. Also a lot of the compensation most people receive is going to be in stock options for senior guys, so your 200k/year means u actually got 60-80k in salary and rest in options that are vested over a period of time that you can't touch until ex: 5 years. I know CNRL does this. As for year earnings, you could make more as junior guy than as a senior depending on market conditions. In one year you could make 350k and in a year like now you could be laid off with no job in sight for 1+ years. Also there's no 100k EIT jobs anymore man, until you get your P.eng there won't be that much cash. Hell, engineers(EITs) at transcanada make 40k starting.

I think senior plant engineers make about 120-150k salary but these guys have a shitload of experience. This is just what I heard from guys on site about engineers at the producers. A lot of the huge pay packets are from consulting guys who subcontract.

[kotae]

(07-18-2015 10:43 PM)Jack Of All Trades Wrote:  

As someone working in the oil and gas industry, your expectations of stable 6 figure salary for 10 years is ridiculous. As an engineer, your big cash is probably going to be paid from bonuses, overtime, and uplifts, not salary. Also a lot of the compensation most people receive is going to be in stock options for senior guys, so your 200k/year means u actually got 60-80k in salary and rest in options that are vested over a period of time that you can't touch until ex: 5 years. I know CNRL does this. As for year earnings, you could make more as junior guy than as a senior depending on market conditions. In one year you could make 350k and in a year like now you could be laid off with no job in sight for 1+ years. Also there's no 100k EIT jobs anymore man, until you get your P.eng there won't be that much cash. Hell, engineers(EITs) at transcanada make 40k starting.

I think senior plant engineers make about 120-150k salary but these guys have a shitload of experience. This is just what I heard from guys on site about engineers at the producers. A lot of the huge pay packets are from consulting guys who subcontract.

First thanks for the reply Jack. Based on your posts I'm assuming you're talking about my figures for Fort Mac, Alberta. I'm mostly basing my figures on some digging on the internet and my job offer of 70k as a student.

Not to be confrontational, but based on your figures I wouldn't make much more (or even less!) than I did as a student! Granted you did say the cash comes more from bonuses and OT, but it just seems odd I'd get paid less than as an intern. And for a sub 100k pay before Peng, I'm alright with that as I'll only need 3 more years experience for that, meaning I should average at least 100k over a 10 year span right? Also I should mention that the 70k offer includes free housing. Based on this, would an assumption of at least 1.5x what I make as a student for a full time be unreasonable? I mean factoring in taxes and rent I don't see how one could save more on 100k without housing than 70k with housing, and it seems odd one would get a better package as a student than as a full time (even if it's for an EIT position).

Again don't mean to override your practical experience with stuff on paper, but just some questions that came to mind.

[262]

On the oil engineer job, I can't really say if your salary expectations are realistic, since I'm not familiar with that industry, but as someone who has a Bachelor's in an engineering field, I do know that undergrad engineers in the U.S. usually only make about $60K-$80K per year straight out of school, depending on location/field/company size/etc. If they work smart and/or job-hop, they usually get a 10%-20% bump every 3-5 years. So definitely ask around, but don't worry about it too much, since there aren't many other undergrad (or even grad) fields that pay as much.

What you should really worry about is profit: finding a high-paying job in a low-cost & low-tax location. I'm not familiar with Qatar, but make sure essential cost-of-living items such as housing don't eat up any tax savings. Look at locations other than Qatar and Alberta too. Numbeo.com is a great source for this, since they actually break it down. Ignore the "if you make XXX you need YYY to have the same standard of living" and focus instead on the essentials - housing, food, etc. If you're going the Mr. Money Mustache route, you don't care that luxury items cost more in certain locations, because you'll rarely buy them (the standard of living comparison usually assumes you will though).

Also note that in order to get 7% average annual returns, you must invest in low-expense ratio S&P 500 index funds. And to live off those returns, you must keep the investments there. Sticking or converting all your money into almost any reasonable cash account will definitely not do. You may already know this, but I want to make it clear, since mainstream retirement advice is to be in overly-safe (and overly under-performing) investments when you actually retire.

Another important point that Mr. Money Mustache emphasizes is to be flexible. Again, you may already know this, but don't make overly-defined plans, such as "I will retire in 10 years exactly" because the 7% annual return figure is only a historic long-term average. In most years, the S&P 500 has been up, but in some years, it's been down. This flexibility also carries over when you retire, so it's good that you're planning to live under your means, even then. When I told folks I was planning to retire in a year, I actually had enough to retire then, but I wanted a cushion, and I also remained flexible in case something happened (such as a market crash, war, etc). Up until a month before I left, I could've still backed out.

Also, be sure to visit at least one city in Eastern Europe and South America before settling on Asia, if you haven't already. You may be surprised by the experience, despite your knowledge of Roosh's rule (I was).

No clue about Swiss bank accounts and divorce.

[Alpone]

262 - I skimmed the thread and didn't see you mention if the 4% withdrawal rate is based on assumed market appreciation or dividend payments. Some funds like Vanguard Wellington and REITs spin off substantial dividends which are more consistent/stable than market gains. Even if the market does poorly for a couple of years the dividend payments should take less of a hit.

The downside is some dividends (REITs) are taxed at ordinary income tax rates.

[El Chinito loco]

(01-01-2016 10:24 PM)Alpone Wrote:  

262 - I skimmed the thread and didn't see you mention if the 4% withdrawal rate is based on assumed market appreciation or dividend payments. Some funds like Vanguard Wellington and REITs spin off substantial dividends which are more consistent/stable than market gains. Even if the market does poorly for a couple of years the dividend payments should take less of a hit.

The downside is some dividends (REITs) are taxed at ordinary income tax rates.

The 4% rule takes into consideration dividend reinvestment.