[samsamsam]

Germanwings Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before Crash in France

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/....html?_r=0

Quote:

PARIS — As officials struggled Wednesday to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in.

A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the Germanwings crash, it also left many questions unanswered.

"We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. "But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."

[RIslander]

(03-25-2015 07:13 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Germanwings Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before Crash in France

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/....html?_r=0

Quote:

PARIS — As officials struggled Wednesday to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in.

A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the Germanwings crash, it also left many questions unanswered.

"We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. "But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."

This is very very strange. When a pilot goes to the bathroom a flight attendant goes into the cockpit. The flight attendant is there to open the door in case the other pilot has a medical emergency.

[Professor Fox]

(03-25-2015 04:23 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

Nearly all evidence points to that Egypt Air flight being brought down an uncontrolled stabilizer trim runaway or by a missile. The pilot said a prayer "I have put my faith in God's hands", a common thing for a Muslim man to do while under duress, and the media ran with it. A stabilizer trim runaway is when a panel on the tail moves to full deflection. Stabilizer trim is used to maintain level flight. If this runaway occurs, it may force the airplane in to an uncontrollable dive or climb, which is consistent with the aircraft's flight profile. This is a highly dangerous situation and something that pilots are now trained on. However, if the trim is not stopped before a certain point, depending on the aircraft and the loading, it may not be controllable.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...90/302332/

You mean the pilot that calmly said "I have put my faith in God's hands" while the aircraft was in level flight with the autopilot on? Who then disengaged the autopilot, pulled back on the throttle, and then pitched nose down? With a stabilizer trim theory peddled to this day by the Egyptian government, with no physical or engineering evidence to support it? How about this missile shootdown that left not a trace of explosive residue or high velocity foreign object entry on the recovered wreckage, even though such evidence was easily found on flights such as MH17?

How can you (allegedly) fly while throwing up this tinfoil hat post which isn't supported by any of the physical evidence or the subsequent investigation?

[RIslander]

(03-25-2015 07:51 PM)Professor Fox Wrote:  

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...90/302332/

You mean the pilot that calmly said "I have put my faith in God's hands" while the aircraft was in level flight with the autopilot on? Who then disengaged the autopilot, pulled back on the throttle, and then pitched nose down? With a stabilizer trim theory peddled to this day by the Egyptian government, with no physical or engineering evidence to support it? How about this missile shootdown that left not a trace of explosive residue or high velocity foreign object entry on the recovered wreckage, even though such evidence was easily found on flights such as MH17?

How can you (allegedly) fly while throwing up this tinfoil hat post which isn't supported by any of the physical evidence or the subsequent investigation?

1. My professional background is made quite clear from my previous posts and rep points.

2. The religious statement was initially made around the time the autopilot was shut off. This could indicate that he recognized a problem. A stabilizer trim runaway trips off the autopilot.

3. 'Tinfoil hat wearing' does not apply to a mechanical failure of the aircraft. In fact, saying the pilot drove the plane into the ocean is more of a conspiracy theory than the trim theory.

4. Multiple professional pilot unions and organizations have spoken out in support of the Egypt Air pilots and condemning the halfassed NTSB investigation.

Here is a transcript of Egypt Air 990's final moments:

Quote:

El Batouty: Look, here’s the new first officer’s pen. Give it to him please. God spare you. (unidentified voice):Yeah. El Batouty: To make sure it doesn’t get lost. El Habashy: Excuse me, Jimmy, while I take a quick trip to the toilet …

(whirring sound similar to electric seat motor operating; sound of click; sound similar to cockpit door operating) El Batouty: Go ahead, please.

(sound of several clicks) El Habashy: … before it gets crowded. While they are eating, and I’ll get back to you.

(sound similar to cockpit door operating; sound of thunk; sound of clink) (unidentified voice): [three unintelligible syllables]

(sound of click and thump) El Batouty: I rely on God. (heard faintly)

(sounds of thumps and clicks for about 30 seconds; whirring sound similar to electric seat motor operating; two faint thumps followed by louder thump; about 17 seconds later, two clicks and two thumps) El Batouty: I rely on God.

(one loud thump and three faint thumps) El Batouty: I rely on God. I rely on God.

(four tones similar to Master Caution aural beeper) El Batouty: I rely on God. I rely on God. I rely on God. I rely on God.

(sound of loud thump) El Batouty: I rely on God. El Habashy: What’s happening? What’s happening? El Batouty: I rely on God.

(sound of numerous thumps and clicks continue for approximately 15 seconds; repeating high-low tone similar to Master Warning aural starts and continues to the end of recording) El Batouty: I rely on God. El Habashy: What’s happening? (unidentified voice): [unintelligible] El Habashy: What’s happening, Gamil? What’s happening?

(four tones similar to Master Caution aural beeper) El Habashy: What is this? What is this? Did you shut the engine[s]?

(one microphone detects a change and increase in sound) El Habashy: Get away in the engines. Shut the engines. El Batouty: It’s shut. El Habashy: Pull. Pull with me. Pull with me. Pull with me.

According to investigators, the transcript ends here — at 1:50 a.m. and 38 seconds EST — as the aircraft starts to descend from cruise altitude. Apparently, electrical power to the recorder ended at that time.

Does this sound like a renegade pilot trying to crash the plane? No. The clicking sounds like a pilot attempting to adjust trim. The crew communication sounds like two confused pilots trying to recover from a dive. If I'm flying with a guy and he clicks off the autopilot and intentionally dives the plane... the fight is on.

Want to hear what it sounds like when a pilot tries to intentionally crash an airplane? Read up on Fedex 705: http://www.tailstrike.com/070494.htm

If you're going to call out another poster than back it up with some facts. Otherwise, you're a troll and you sound like a woman.

[Professor Fox]

You really believe in our democratic hyper litigious scandal-gate obsessed country, that either the NTSB and Boeing were

a) Too incompetent to investigate this one particular crash, despite a very conspicuous investigation with loads of publicly available data (nice of you to ignore the Boeing tests which showed that the split stabilizer theory didn't match the flight data and known control inputs)

b) Engaged in a massive coverup involving hundreds, nay thousands of employees and conspirators without a peep getting out to this day.

Which of these hypothesis are you behind?

[Gringuito]

Quote:

An elevator assembly hardover (in which the elevator in a fully extended position sticks because the hinge catches on the tail frame) proposed by the Egyptians was discounted because the flight recorder data showed the elevator was in a "split condition." In this state, one side of the elevator is up and the other down; on the 767, this condition is only possible through flight control input (i.e., one yoke is pushed forward, the other pulled backward)

We'll never know exactly what happened but it seems that for some reason one pilot was pushing forward and the other pulling. Also he said his first Tawkalt ala Allah a minute before the autopilot was disconnected according to the flight recorders. I'm not sure how he could see the stabilizer trim problem for a minute before it was bad enough to trip the autopilot. RIslander, are you typed in the 767?

[RIslander]

(03-25-2015 08:23 PM)Professor Fox Wrote:  

You really believe in our democratic hyper litigious scandal-gate obsessed country, that either the NTSB and Boeing were

a) Too incompetent to investigate this one particular crash, despite a very conspicuous investigation with loads of publicly available data (nice of you to ignore the Boeing tests which showed that the split stabilizer theory didn't match the flight data and known control inputs)

b) Engaged in a massive coverup involving hundreds, nay thousands of employees and conspirators without a peep getting out to this day.

Which of these hypothesis are you behind?

My hypothesis is that maybe the plane was intentionally crashed. However, I think its more likely that it was caused by a mechanical failure or an explosion.

It was a poorly investigated accident. A foreign aircraft in international waters is not normally investigated by the NTSB... they did so at the request of the Egyptians. The media made a shit show of it all judgement was passed as soon as Americans heard the guy praying to Allah.

If the first officer was trying to crash the plane, wouldn't the captain at least give a "what the fuck are you doing?!?"

(03-25-2015 08:31 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

Quote:

An elevator assembly hardover (in which the elevator in a fully extended position sticks because the hinge catches on the tail frame) proposed by the Egyptians was discounted because the flight recorder data showed the elevator was in a "split condition." In this state, one side of the elevator is up and the other down; on the 767, this condition is only possible through flight control input (i.e., one yoke is pushed forward, the other pulled backward)

We'll never know exactly what happened but it seems that for some reason one pilot was pushing forward and the other pulling. Also he said his first Tawkalt ala Allah a minute before the autopilot was disconnected according to the flight recorders. I'm not sure how he could see the stabilizer trim problem for a minute before it was bad enough to trip the autopilot. RIslander, are you typed in the 767?

I am not currently typed on the 767 but I will be in the fall. One of the main debates concerning the split elevator is whether it occurred due to one pilot pushing the yoke and the other pulling, or whether a mechanical failure caused it irrespective of pilot input. If in fact the mechanical failure caused the split elevator the crew most likely would of been able to regain control... however, these tests were conducted by test pilots who were aware of the problem. Spring this on pilots who are not expecting it and its a different story.

[Professor Fox]

(03-25-2015 08:10 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

1. My professional background is made quite clear from my previous posts and rep points.

If you're going to call out another poster than back it up with some facts. Otherwise, you're a troll and you sound like a woman.

AMOG, ad hom, rep trolling.

(03-25-2015 08:10 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

2. The religious statement was initially made around the time the autopilot was shut off. This could indicate that he recognized a problem. A stabilizer trim runaway trips off the autopilot.

It could also indicate he saw a purple monkey dishwasher. Speculative, does not match available evidence (namely, that there is no evidence of a mechanical malfunction involving a stabilizer split, or any mechanical malfunction whatsoever). Flight 990 flew undisturbed in straight and level flight 4 seconds after Batouti disengaged the autopilot. This sounds like an aircraft about to dive into the ocean? A pilot trying to diagnose a serious problem?

(03-25-2015 08:10 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

3. 'Tinfoil hat wearing' does not apply to a mechanical failure of the aircraft. In fact, saying the pilot drove the plane into the ocean is more of a conspiracy theory than the trim theory.

"Boeing engineers calculated that a dual actuator failure would not have deflected the elevators far enough down to equal the known elevator deflections of Flight 990, and that such a failure therefore would not have caused as steep a dive. To explore the question they performed a series of ground tests of a 767 elevator, inducing dual actuator failures and "splits" on a parked airplane in Seattle. After adjusting the measured effects for the theoretical aerodynamic pressures of flight, they found—as they had expected—poor correlation with the known record of Flight 990 elevator positions. They believed in any case that either pilot could quickly have recovered from a dual actuator failure by doing what comes naturally at such moments—pulling back hard on the controls."

"The second set of simulations were easier to fly. These were the dual actuator failures, which EgyptAir proposed might have overcome Batouti when he was alone in the cockpit. The purpose was to test the difficulty or ease of recovery from such an upset. Again the simulations began at 33,000 feet and .79 Mach. I flew by hand from the start. The airplane pitched down strongly and without warning. I hauled back on the controls and lost 800 feet. It was an easy recovery, but not fair—I had been ready. The engineers then made me wait before reacting, as they had made other pilots—requiring delays of five, ten, and finally fifteen seconds before I began the recovery. Fifteen seconds seems like an eternity in a 767 going out of control. Even so, by hauling hard on the yoke and throttling back, I managed to pull out after losing only 12,000 feet; and though I went to the maximum allowable dive speed, the airplane survived. This was not unusual. Airplanes are meant to be flown. During the original simulation sessions done for the NTSB every pilot with a dual actuator failure was able to recover, and probably better than I. So what was wrong with Batouti? The simplest explanation is that he was trying to crash the airplane. But if he wasn't, if the Egyptians were right that he couldn't recover from a dual actuator failure, what was wrong with him as an aviator?"

(03-25-2015 08:10 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

4. Multiple professional pilot unions and organizations have spoken out in support of the Egypt Air pilots and condemning the halfassed NTSB investigation.

Pilot unions have a vested incentive to defend the pilot at all costs, which has been seen countless times in history anytime an incident investigation even hinted at the pilot as a factor. Organizations that "have spoken out in support of the Egypt Air pilots and condemning the halfassed NTSB investigation" who are connected with the Egyptians, the pilot unions, or in any way stand to gain by trash talking the US government/NTSB/Boeing have questionable motivations, to put it kindly. This is obvious on the face of it and should not have to be spelled out to anyone above room-temp IQ.

(03-25-2015 08:10 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

Want to hear what it sounds like when a pilot tries to intentionally crash an airplane? Read up on Fedex 705: http://www.tailstrike.com/070494.htm

You're going to compare the CVR transcripts from an armed intruder on the flight deck swinging around a blunt weapon... to a pilot rushing back to the front of an aircraft in extreme distress only to see his co-pilot calmly sitting at the controls? You may as well compare the reactions between you being confronted in the hood by a bunch of criminals, to you being woken up and confronted at 3am in your own bed by your woman holding a weapon.

(03-25-2015 08:41 PM)RIslander Wrote:  

If the first officer was trying to crash the plane, wouldn't the captain at least give a "what the fuck are you doing?!?"

For the last time Batouti said, "I rely on God."

Again Habashi shouted, "What's happening?" By then he must have reached the left control yoke. The negative gs ended as he countered the pitch-over, slowing the rate at which the nose was dropping. But the 767 was still angled down steeply, 40 degrees below the horizon, and it was accelerating. The rate of descent hit 39,000 feet a minute.

"What's happening, Gameel? What's happening?"

Habashi was clearly pulling very hard on his control yoke, trying desperately to raise the nose. Even so, thirty seconds into the dive, at 22,200 feet, the airplane hit the speed of sound, at which it was certainly not meant to fly. Many things happened in quick succession in the cockpit. Batouti reached over and shut off the fuel, killing both engines. Habashi screamed, "What is this? What is this? Did you shut the engines?" The throttles were pushed full forward—for no obvious reason, since the engines were dead. The speed-brake handle was then pulled, deploying drag devices on the wings.

[sixsix]

Regardless of the Egyptian plane, the Germanwings plane crash was intentional.

Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane' (BBC)

Quote:

Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin, citing information from the "black box" voice recorder, said the co-pilot was alone in the cockpit.
He intentionally started a descent while the pilot was locked out.
Mr Robin said there was "absolute silence in the cockpit" as the pilot fought to re-enter it.
Air traffic controllers made repeated attempts to contact the aircraft, but to no avail, he said.
Passengers could be heard screaming just before the crash, he added.
The co-pilot, now named as Andreas Lubitz, 28, was alive until the final impact, the prosecutor said.

The pilot has a code to enter the cockpit from outside, which has to be purposefully blocked by someone inside. It means the co-pilot wasn't unconscious, and he was also heard breathing until the very end.

What a fucking piece of shit. Losing your life, or your loved ones, in an accidental crash is already seriously shitty. No way to fight it, just sitting there with no control over the situation. But to have some faggot do it intentionally is lower than low.

I get it if your life is shit and you're too much of a pussy to better your situation. Kill yourself. Hell, I even can empathize in some cases where the person takes his enemies with him. But destroying innocent people because you can't make it work in this soft and comfortable world?

At least he's dead.

Edit: This is that faggot.

[PeruLover12]

To think that the co-pilot would have seen the people queue up on the gang plank, seen the smiling group of Getman school children enter the cabin, maybe heard the baby on board cry and to still calmly fly them into a mountain. It's beyond comprehension. I wonder if he planned it all along or decided during the flight? Probably did it because he was heart broken over some piece of ass. Weak fuck.

Imagine being in the cabin and seeing the pilot trying to break the door down frantically and feeling the plane descend rapidly. People would have seen the mountains approaching and began screaming, total panic and abject fear spreading through the rows of seats. Some people praying, some crying, others gripping the seats in anticipation of impact. Poor people.

[Guitarman]

What kind of scumbag would intentionally crash a plane and kill 149 other people in committing suicide???

He must have been a serious Omega male with no ability to pull the ladies, I speculate that his lack of female success led to depression, mental problems and suicidal thoughts. Being good looking and a co- pilot he would have had a good salary, a relatively cushy job and should have been pulling left right and centre.

In this case, I speculate a la Elliot Rogers game would have saved lives.

Like Rogers, I speculate that he hated himself and the world and this was his planned "day of retribution".

[turkishcandy]

I don't understand. Why descend for 8 full minutes? Why not just dive? Something fishy here.

[ocean]

Because he let autopilot do the job for him!

http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/8...at?p=64616

[Guitarman]

Why was there no flight attendant in the cockpit with the co pilot??

[Jneg]

(03-26-2015 08:08 AM)sixsix Wrote:  

Regardless of the Egyptian plane, the Germanwings plane crash was intentional.

Passengers could be heard screaming just before the crash, he added.
The co-pilot, now named as Andreas Lubitz, 28, was alive until the final impact, the prosecutor said.

The pilot has a code to enter the cockpit from outside, which has to be purposefully blocked by someone inside. It means the co-pilot wasn't unconscious, and he was also heard breathing until the very end.

What a fucking piece of shit. Losing your life, or your loved ones, in an accidental crash is already seriously shitty. No way to fight it, just sitting there with no control over the situation. But to have some faggot do it intentionally is lower than low.


At least he's dead.

Edit: This is that faggot.


[/quote]

Pilot: Whats the next step in your plan?

Co-Pilot: Crashing this plane... with NO SURVIVORS

Please accept my humble apologies, I'm running on very little sleep and this is what popped into my head after reading this.

What could possibly drive a man to do something like this though? What could have been going through his head?

[magicone]

Yes the recordings in the black box prove that co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, 28,
played maybe a deadly prank to everyone,
and went into an intentional descent towards the mountains.

The death of the 150 people is probably the saddest tragedy of 2015

[freeuser]

I don´t understand the breathing thing. Just because he was breathing, doesn´t mean that he was conscious, people that pass out still breath after all.

This would still not explain why he locked the other pilot out, which of course makes it look like it was intentional. Or is it possible that he could have engaged the locking mechanism, when passing out? Because it´s very strange that he doesn´t say a single word?

I can´t imagine how horrible it had to be for the passengers. :-(

[lskdfjldsf]

Quote:

He must have been a serious Omega male with no ability to pull the ladies, I speculate that his lack of female success led to depression, mental problems and suicidal thoughts. Being good looking and a co- pilot he would have had a good salary, a relatively cushy job and should have been pulling left right and centre.

This post is a great example of the duality of the term "putting pussy on a pedestal" and why it should be avoided. Not every guy in earth is governed and ruled by the pursuit of women. For all we know, this guy had a notch count of 100+ and just became disillusioned with life after a decade of meaningless one night stands.

Suicide by cop, suicide bombings, school shootings, taking a plane full of people down with you, these things never happened in decades past. When man fears no retribution or judgment after his death, he's far more likely to hurt others in the process of ending his own life. And as with any act of violence, the 24 hour news cycle and instant worldwide coverage both promote this kind of attention-seeking behavior.

My point is that happiness and satisfaction in life are relative to the individual. If the number of women you sleep with is the key indicator of your value and self-worth, good for you, but that's hardly something that can be applied to everyone. I think Western society is sick. We're not in decline, we're not dead, we're just incredibly sick. And if you read between the lines, it's clear that disillusionment, disappointment, and insecurity are the root of the illness. These problems never existed when a unifying moral code (specifically, religion) dictated an individual's measure of self-worth and instilled in them a fear of judgment and retribution after death.

Peddling a sex-centric lifestyle because you learned a few pickup lines doesn't help the problem, it makes it worse.

[turkishcandy]

True that pussy is not the answer for everyone. But the question is not about being happy or satisfied with the meaning of your life. The question is about killing yourself along with 150 innocent people.

I've never seen a suicide case where the guy was crushing pussies but still chose to end his life. They are all either extremely lonely or in big financial trouble. Although lack of sex might not be the main cause of suicide in all cases, having a sex life with beautiful women almost certainly prevents suicide.

I can't imagine a guy dating a variety of hot women and still becoming a suicidal&homicidal maniac. If he really did crash the plane intentionally, it might have been due to other major pscyhological issues, but he was definitely not getting laid, not as much as he wanted anyway.

[Guitarman]

Blick, the "pedestal on a pussy" does not apply to me. I have much more going on in my life than mere women. I was merely speculating that this pilot may have had this personal problem.

Hence in his case, "game saves lives". I'm happy to be proved wrong in the case of this 28 year old pilot, but am advancing the theory that this is another Elliot Rogers style incident. I don't believe for a second that most men on RVF put the pussy on a pedestal. BUT, blue pill males in the world at large can and do. Maybe even pilots. With potentially disastrous consequences.

Remember the A10 pilot that deliberately crashed into the Rockies a few years ago?? That pussy/ pedestal related, at least he only took a multi million $$ plane with him and not human lives.

[Guitarman]

I'd like to see what the "incident that interrupted his training" was several years ago. That may shed light on why he did it and possibly help to screen out future air crew for psychological problems.

And- any German speakers here?? His Facebook page is still up and there are some odd looking photos posted to the timeline, though all the text is in German.

[lskdfjldsf]

Quote:

And- any German speakers here?? His Facebook page is still up and there are some odd looking photos posted to the timeline, though all the text is in German.

Post the text and I'll translate.

[Engineer]

[/quote]
This is very very strange. When a pilot goes to the bathroom a flight attendant goes into the cockpit. The flight attendant is there to open the door in case the other pilot has a medical emergency.
[/quote]

In the US yes, but apparently not in Europe.

People are looking at single pilot ops and even zero pilot ops to reduce operating costs. It's a political issue not a technical one. I know for a fact that people are working on future pilot ops that include the possibility of taking control away REMOTELY from a malicious or incapacitated single pilot.

I was surprised to learn there is an emergency approximately every month that incapacitates a pilot to the degree that a second person in the cockpit is required to assist. I was told this verbally in passing 2 years ago so experts please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[Engineer]

delete dupe

[michelin]

(03-26-2015 08:31 AM)The Ligurian Wrote:  

Probably did it because he was heart broken over some piece of ass. Weak fuck.

This. Once again, the profile of the Beta/Omega nerd turned mass-killer emerges. Not all pilots are alphas, perhaps there are as many betas among them as anywhere else. Soon we will hear about some GF who dumped him, etc. etc. We´ve seen this all before: Aurora, Boston, Isla Vista: young frustrated guys without Game killing others because of their failures.

Once again, it´s probable that a little bit of Game might have saved lives. No media outlet will tell this version though.