[Grange]

Many (most?) people lie about themselves to make themselves look better to other people. I can't see what's special about military experience to make an exception to the normal reaction of ignoring or humorously calling out people who lie about themselves. Would it provoke the same reaction to hear about a guy falsely claiming to have been a firefighter who put his life on the line to save others? Others who had a good reason to be where they were in harm's way, no less. This says a lot more about American fetishism about the military than about some idiot misrepresenting himself.

[Paracelsus]

(03-12-2015 10:37 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

This is a side effect of uniform worship in our country. These losers want some moron to come up, shake their hand, and say "thank you for your service" to them.

In passing, I think a big element in the uniform worship is rear area guilt. As an electoral group, Americans (and indeed virtually every other Western nation on the planet) prefer their wars to be fought by somebody else, or somebody else's child, mainly because most Western militaries are all-volunteer.

That guilt manifests as overcompensating in one's "appreciation" of someone wearing a uniform, because even unconsciously it's at the back of your mind that the person wearing the uniform went because you refused to commit, or refused to commit your son, to potential death somewhere across an ocean.

Ironically, the only situation where this overcompensation is minimised is when draft laws are in force - because the possibility of having to "suit up" lies on every able-bodied male who doesn't dodge the draft. (I adopt John T Reed's argument that a true no-exceptions draft might actually be a good thing for the US, but unless people really want me to expand the argument here I won't go into it.)

[germanico]

(03-11-2015 06:48 PM)JustlookingForAGoodTime Wrote:  

But the particulars on certain weapons and gear he was talking about was just not on but he was so entertaining that we just sat back and enjoyed his bullshit as it was rather first class.

I know a lot of guys that go on and on about which particular weapon is better and why, yet they have never fired a gun in their entire lives. Never been in a firefight? Never had bullets flying around you? They think Call of Duty is actual training.

Quote:

saving people of interest during the rwanda crisis

This. Why not pretend to have been on a NGO giving water to thirsty kids or giving c-sections to elephants or some shit where it would be harder for someone to call you out?

[Kingsley Davis]

Another form of stolen valor.

   

[polar]

(03-12-2015 10:45 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

Another form of stolen valor.

You mean walking around with another man's name on your back isn't alpha?

[germanico]

(03-11-2015 10:04 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

This gives me an idea..
I think I'm going to hit the MILF bar wearing doctor's scrubs and tell them I just go off a hard day's work at the ER.

A friend of mine, a biologist, had to wear scrubs for his lab job. He used to go to strip clubs after work and get hit on by strippers.

(03-12-2015 10:13 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I really don't understand some of the commenters who have "no problem with this."

For Christ's sake, people.

Let's just set aside the whole military thing. This goes beyond that. This is about fraud and false pretenses.

Any man that lies about his combat prowess or physical capabilities is a threath to the tribe. Tiger hunting? Oh yeah, Ill hold my ground. I can totally take a tiger down, I have killed like at least THIS many tigers.

Imagine if they forego training and just trusted what they said. NYFD? Oh sure, I can run up 8 flights of stairs and not lose my breath.

Back at the academy we had one woman whose arms where so frail she couldnt even pull back the slide of her gun. Thats affirmative action to you guys. Keeping you safe.

[Beyond Borders]

(03-12-2015 10:13 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I really don't understand some of the commenters who have "no problem with this."

For Christ's sake, people.

Let's just set aside the whole military thing. This goes beyond that. This is about fraud and false pretenses. This is about being a fucking confidence man.

Why are they called "confidence men"? Because they trick you into giving them your confidence. These people are thieves.

Would you be offended by a guy who posed as an "investment guru" and induced you to trust his advice?

This isn't just some harmless posing. It's wrapping oneself in a sacred cloak, and claiming it to be your own, when you have not earned it.

I am just throwing this out as a matter-of-fact and not as a disrespect to the forum or any individuals here, but I'm surprised that you're surprised there are men on this forum who don't see lying as wrong. Many guys here (not all) rationalize that falsehood in the name of getting laid is okay.

To be clear, I'm in full agreement with you. For me personally, making things up to get what I want in life is not okay. Rationalizing dishonesty is a slippery slope, and your honor is something only you can protect and cultivate.

[DarkTriad]

(03-11-2015 07:57 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

My cousin's husband was in the US Military in The Gulf War in 1990. He told me he never even went to Iraq, he was stationed in Germany and his team were painting the tanks a sand colour. He saw no combat.

How honest could somebody in his team be without making themselves look like chumps? I guess sometimes guys have to embellish things to impress people...

THAT guy was in a Top Secret unit and was just trying to snow job you.

[draketton]

(03-12-2015 03:57 PM)Troll King Wrote:  

Yeah, no matter what you think about this my advice would be to not steal valor. Sure, a lot of veterans will probably just call your bluff and embarrass you at the bar.

However, there is a not so small group that will straight up kick the shit out of you. I knew one guy, we weren't friends or anything, who wasn't even intentionally trying to do this. It was something like his sister or brother were in the Marines and gave him a shirt that apparently could only be bought at some marine base or something. In other words in wasn't from Walmart. So he is wearing it around, and to be clear he does not in any way look like a marine and is too young to be a retired marine, at a bar or some place. From what I heard some chick hit on him and asked him if he was a marine saying something like she only fucks marines or something. I don't remember exactly, it has been many years.

So, from what I heard, and keep in mind that this guy would have been lucky to be laid twice in his life at this point, he doesn't deny it but also doesn't come out and say it either because he is thinking he is going to get laid. From what my friend, who was friends with this guy at the time, told me there were a number of marines near by. Well, end of the story is that they beat the shit out of him.

At the same time, I would also advise you guys to not claim to be members of the Hells Angels or any other 1% club. I would also advise you to not do anything like this around veteran motorcycle clubs. Shit could get bad for you real fast.

did they call him out for wearing the shirt or just sucker punch him?

[Quintus Curtius]

(03-13-2015 03:29 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

I am just throwing this out as a matter-of-fact and not as a disrespect to the forum or any individuals here, but I'm surprised that you're surprised there are men on this forum who don't see lying as wrong. Many guys here (not all) rationalize that falsehood in the name of getting laid is okay.

To be clear, I'm in full agreement with you. For me personally, making things up to get what I want in life is not okay. Rationalizing dishonesty is a slippery slope, and your honor is something only you can protect and cultivate.

Yeah, you're right.

If you really think about this, you can get an idea of just how twisted this sort of shit is, BB.

Think about it. To do what these guys do takes a whole other level of sociopathy. They actually have to spend time buying uniforms (presumably at surplus stores), arranging their fake medals, their fake headgear, their fake shoes, etc.

It takes time. It takes effort. I can't even imagine doing something like that. This is a whole other level of duplicity.

It's not like rattling off some "little white lie" at a cocktail party to some chick. This shit takes effort, time, calculation, and preparation.

I see it as malice aforethought.

The fact that some loser would spend his time doing something like this, rather than going out and trying to improve himself for real, is disturbing. That's what I find repellent about it.

Q

[CaptainChardonnay]

(03-13-2015 09:57 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

(03-13-2015 03:29 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

I am just throwing this out as a matter-of-fact and not as a disrespect to the forum or any individuals here, but I'm surprised that you're surprised there are men on this forum who don't see lying as wrong. Many guys here (not all) rationalize that falsehood in the name of getting laid is okay.

To be clear, I'm in full agreement with you. For me personally, making things up to get what I want in life is not okay. Rationalizing dishonesty is a slippery slope, and your honor is something only you can protect and cultivate.

Yeah, you're right.

If you really think about this, you can get an idea of just how twisted this sort of shit is, BB.

Think about it. To do what these guys do takes a whole other level of sociopathy. They actually have to spend time buying uniforms (presumably at surplus stores), arranging their fake medals, their fake headgear, their fake shoes, etc.

It takes time. It takes effort. I can't even imagine doing something like that. This is a whole other level of duplicity.

It's not like rattling off some "little white lie" at a cocktail party to some chick. This shit takes effort, time, calculation, and preparation.

I see it as malice aforethought.

The fact that some loser would spend his time doing something like this, rather than going out and trying to improve himself for real, is disturbing. That's what I find repellent about it.

Q

Yeah those guys are weirdos. I always hated wearing the dress uniform because I found it too restrictive and hot, I think I might have just thrown mine in the trash after I left the military because I was never going to wear it again and didnt need all that clutter. Cant imagine someone going out and actually buying it.

I was at my university gym the other day and saw a guy wearing Canadian issued combat pants while working out. Guy looked like a nerd (pale skin, glasses, really skinny) and part of me wanted to call him out on it because civilians might think hes actual military and think everyone in the military is a goof ball like this guy. I decided not to though because it would in no way benefit my life and hes probably just an idiot.

These stolen valor guys OP posted are literally the definition of socially retarded. They have no idea how to interact with other human beings and it comes through with them not knowing what is appropriate and what is not to wear. Its not like airsofters who wear camo in the forest playing a game. These guys actually think theyre in some videogame or something and can act out things theyre not apart of. Its just odd behavior.

[lemko]

These knuckleheads' "uniforms" come across like the costume Curly wore in the Three Stooges short "You Nutzy Spy."

[Hannibal]

You go to a bar or any sort of social event, you're bound to run into at least one guy who's completely full of shit.

I don't live in a very big town, but I'll rattle off some of the dumb shit I've heard when I'm outside smoking a cigarette or talking to strangers.

-One guy who was my size (6 foot 1 @ 175 lbs, not terribly lean) claiming to have the ability to overhead press 250 lbs. I called bullshit after he couldn't do one single headstand pushup against a wall. Fucking faggot.

-A guy from my highschool said he could bench 500 and squat 800 before he injured himself at the age of 17.

-A bartender from my favorite hole-in-the-wall shithole bar said he was a backup guitarist for Motorhead. He might have been 27 years old.

-Any American who claims to speak any language fluently, but hasn't spent more than a couple weeks in another country. Bonus points if it's more than one language or they have some distant ancestral relation that osmosis grants them the ability to speak German/French/Danish/insert whatever language. I spent eight years studying German and I still haven't put "speaks German" on Facebook.

-A coworker claimed to have deadlifted one thousand pounds and his name wasn't Andy Bolton.

-Too many to count, scrawny faggots who said they could fight, they "train MMA", or they "lift weights/go to the gym" and put up all these suspiciously big numbers. Yeah, I'll give credit where it's due, but I have yet to run into Richard Hawthorne. If you don't know who that is, look him up, I think his powerlifting total is 11.5x his bodyweight.

[Hannibal]

Was going to edit my post.

My point is that there's a lot of gullible shitheads out there and if people were more discerning and confrontational about this shit then it wouldn't happen nearly as often. You see a guy pretending that he's God when it comes to anything, draw him out and fucking crush him. Shame is a powerful motivator.

These shit talkers and con artists wouldn't be around if more people would demand that they put their money where their mouth is.

Some of them are simply retarded and lack self awareness or any ability to gauge themselves. This happens a lot with women and guys with more ego than brains, they have never gotten good or accomplished anything so they think they're much better than they really are. I've been drunk at college parties and seen girls who thought they could throw a punch, then get knocked on their asses. These people are simply delusional.

These "soldiers" are on a whole other level, they're willingly being con artists for attention. Fuck em.

[Troll King]

(03-13-2015 08:24 AM)draketton Wrote:  

(03-12-2015 03:57 PM)Troll King Wrote:  

Yeah, no matter what you think about this my advice would be to not steal valor. Sure, a lot of veterans will probably just call your bluff and embarrass you at the bar.

However, there is a not so small group that will straight up kick the shit out of you. I knew one guy, we weren't friends or anything, who wasn't even intentionally trying to do this. It was something like his sister or brother were in the Marines and gave him a shirt that apparently could only be bought at some marine base or something. In other words in wasn't from Walmart. So he is wearing it around, and to be clear he does not in any way look like a marine and is too young to be a retired marine, at a bar or some place. From what I heard some chick hit on him and asked him if he was a marine saying something like she only fucks marines or something. I don't remember exactly, it has been many years.

So, from what I heard, and keep in mind that this guy would have been lucky to be laid twice in his life at this point, he doesn't deny it but also doesn't come out and say it either because he is thinking he is going to get laid. From what my friend, who was friends with this guy at the time, told me there were a number of marines near by. Well, end of the story is that they beat the shit out of him.

At the same time, I would also advise you guys to not claim to be members of the Hells Angels or any other 1% club. I would also advise you to not do anything like this around veteran motorcycle clubs. Shit could get bad for you real fast.

did they call him out for wearing the shirt or just sucker punch him?

I wasn't there. I just heard the story second hand, so I don't really know. I only met the guy two or three times, he was a friend of a friend and seemed like a bit of a loser to be honest. I would guess they probably called him out and maybe he said something smart back. I have heard other types of things too. Honestly, seems pretty stupid thing to do in my opinion.

[JustlookingForAGoodTime]

I think i found the correct patch those guys can use on their uniforms.
   

[Geomann180]

What makes this so repugnant I think is that the military is supposed to be a meritocracy. Each one of those medals, unit patches, cords, tabs, and badges are supposed to have a unique and specific meaning each. They're not supposed to be worn willy nilly, but earned.

To wear them, or even the basic uniform itself, without having earned a thing, is a slap in the face of that meritocracy. It degrades the meaning of the uniform and the medals - for the more people see losers like that wear such obnoxious costumes, the less meaning each uniform or medal has. These men are trying to make themselves more equal but accomplish nothing more than sprinkling gold dust on shit.

Shit with gold dust is still shit. Thank god most of these clowns don't know how to dress properly.

G

[Ghaleon]

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/vi...HdWlG5OBG1

[Gmac]

Love seeing these guys get exposed for what they are.

[AntiTrace]

BDU's? Aw thats cute, hes not only retarded hes about 10 years too late.

[Ghaleon]

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/vi...R0U5qzsd1i

[Checkmat]

(03-11-2015 09:06 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(03-11-2015 08:28 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

I had family members who were in WW2 and various other conflicts in east asia and it would be very disrespectful for some silly faggot to play pretend with something that meant so much to them and really the people they bled for.

Funny you should say that, because I take the view that one of the biggest thefts of valour has happened and is happening, with the watering down of criteria for bravery awards and the issuing of medals for acts that are not really above and beyond the call of duty.

One of these men served in the US Army for 46 years, commanded the largest multinational land force ever put together, other than Zhukov commanded the largest land army in modern times, and commanded the largest seaborne invasion in history against an opponent that had a roughly equivalent sized conventional military.

The other served in the US Army for 37 years, was not born at the time of Korea, was too young to serve in Vietnam, had command of a single division against a pathetically outmatched opponent, and failed to subdue satisfactorily any particular country his forces were assigned to when he hit four-star general rank. (We need not discuss his post-army work or who what he was doing while at that four-star general rank.)

Any outsider looking at them is left with the distinct impression that Petraeus was a vastly more competent and/or vastly braver man than Eisenhower. I don't doubt any military guy looking at them can see which medals are for perforations and which are for pie-eating contests, but medals are a projection of achievements to civilians, not other soldiers. The US Army's prime job, at least as I understood it and sure as hell as Douglas Macarthur described it on his farewell address, is winning the US's wars.

(One side issue: unlike Eisenhower, Petraeus had a medal for bravery: Bronze Star with V device, for valour. The problem being (a) the circumstances for the award of the V device are suspect and people have trouble finding records of the citation justifying its award and (b) if you're a senior commanding officer, as at major general level, and you wind up in a scenario where you can earn a bravery medal for being in direct combat, you would generally think something has gone very badly wrong at the strategic or command level for which you bear responsibility. Particularly when said bravery medal was "earned" while "fighting" a ragtag of third-rate conventional forces. Petraeus's "bravery" award sounds more like a "dumbass general" award than anything else in that respect.)

(And one other side issue: Eisenhower's photograph here was taken in 1943, when he took command of the Allied forces. He's got five medals there. For the rest of his US Army career, including V-E Day, he earned another five. That's it.)

There's a much longer argument to be made here about the questionable nature of a lot of military medals -- or at least the questionable impression sought to be left that the wearer has always earned each and every one for bravery or heroism. One of the most recent and glaring examples of that was how Patrick Tillman managed to (posthumously) be awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart when all the evidence seems to be pointing towards him being the victim of friendly fire and the subject of a coverup going to some of the highest levels of the military and government. The medals seem to have been given to try and make the Tillman family shut up and go away, which, to their credit, they refused. Or take the joking around about the CIB, the Combat Infantryman's Badge, which might be basically an attendance medal, but at least it's for attendance at a battlefront. During the first Gulf War it was handed out so often the joke was that CIB stood for "Crossed Iraqi Border".

Lest I be accused of being someone who does not support the military, I do, and stolen valour is a legitimate issue. But the watering down of medals and the apparent desire of the US's generals to look like Idi Amin is just as big a concern - because it's doing "legally" what imposters do illegally -- giving the impression of being more competent or brave than they really are.

When I was active duty at Keesler AFB in 2008 for training, we were stationed there with a bunch of visiting NATO militaries too. Lots from Eastern Europe. One time this crusty old European NCO remarked on how many ribbons and awards American airmen wear. He scoffed and said, "you all look like you personally won the war." He was like 50, and had 3 ribbons total. I know some 120lb girls in the military with 5 years in and over a dozen ribbons and medals.

It's embarrassing.

[dads]

(03-11-2015 06:44 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(03-11-2015 06:28 PM)Ghaleon Wrote:  

(03-11-2015 06:14 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Yup know a guy just like this.

The tool never served, he creeps on girls.

He even has military tats on him, always claims he's apart some famous video or he was there, he even claimed to know Dan Bilzerian.

Some people just have psychopaths and will do anything for the thirst uh I mean attention.

Tell us more about this guy.

He's just a compulsive liar, seriously lies about everything.

Always fronts with girls, then becomes a provider when in a relationship.

Dude even tried text gaming our friends 16 year old sister.

We called him out asking for his DD 214 to settle it, of course he backed out.

He's more of a joke nowadays when we joke about things now.

In his defense, I'm in now and I don't know what a DD214 is...

[iamdegaussed]

I think my point was misrepresented. I do not think lying is okay nor do I think stealing valor is some type of honorable move, I just don't think chasing people around to yell at them about their clothes is worthwhile.

My first experience with one of these stolen valor videos was some guy chasing a homeless man around and out into traffic because he was wearing a uniform.

[Suits]

(03-12-2015 12:02 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

In medieval Japan, wearing a sword you were not entitled to wear, or claiming status that was not earned, would come with an immediate death penalty.

In ancient Rome, forgery of legacies or wills was punished by involuntary penal servitude for several years.

.

These are examples of people with power designing and enforcing a system that gave the common man absolutely no chance at bettering himself.