[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

Thanks for that link YardDog. It's a legit study. I stand corrected.
I've just become very wary of unintended consequences and using multiple drugs.

[midlifealpha]

I've been going to an Anti-Aging clinic for about 5 months.

Noticeable difference in muscularity and general libido. Thinking of adding Sermorelin and running that NO stack mentioned at the ExcelMale site. Used to weigh 320 and have some stubborn fat around the middle. I would like to carry about 205 which means 35 more lbs.

I hate paying the $200/month though knowing that Costco option is there. Now these guys also prescribe HCG and Anastrazole and all labs are included, so maybe it's not awful. However it might be worth asking my regular doc who also runs a wellness clinic (more for botox it seems) if he would be willing to write scripts for what I get. The other thing is coming from the regular Doc, I might start getting crap free since we blow through the deductible each year with ease due to one serious illness in the family. Usually about halfway through the year we pay very little for any procedure as long as it's in network and something they approve.

Also I used my HSA card to pay for the $200 so the hit isn't quite so bad since I max that out each year.

[rhodey]

Question so for a guy like me, with Middling test levels who may have an issue going the traditional doctors route. Would this work:

• Join an anti aging clinic and have their doctors write me a prescription for test.
  

• Stay with then for 4-6 months to see how I react and learn how to properly self administer.
  

• Quit the anti aging clinic with prescription in hand.
  

• Use that Prescription to get another conventional doctor to write me another when needed.
  

So now my costs are just periodically Labcorb tests (to see where am at ) and the price of the testosterone from Costcos.



Is the above a plausible solution?

[LINUX]

Yes. It could work. Once you start the aging clinic, find a urologist or endo in your area and tell them you have been on TRT script and you want a urologist or endo to oversee you. He will want to see blood test, he will see you're on trt because your LH and FSH will be below range since you're on exogenous testosterone.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

You might have to shop around. There are docs who will insist on having you stop T, so they can see a blood test with levels below some cutoff threshold. This seems stupid, but if you contact a doc out of the blue, you might run into this.

The docs are afraid of regulations on allowing prescriptions for T, and feel this approach will protect them, even if it's not best for you, or even logical. Before you go to one of these docs, ask to make sure they are willing to let you continue on treatment, without needing to see your levels without treatment.

[LINUX]

(02-18-2015 07:58 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

You might have to shop around. There are docs who will insist on having you stop T, so they can see a blood test with levels below some cutoff threshold. This seems stupid, but if you contact a doc out of the blue, you might run into this.

The docs are afraid of regulations on allowing prescriptions for T, and feel this approach will protect them, even if it's not best for you, or even logical. Before you go to one of these docs, ask to make sure they are willing to let you continue on treatment, without needing to see your levels without treatment.

Thanks for the contrast but this is very rare. No endo who knows anything about hormones is going to tell someone who has been taking testosterone to just stop it. Back when I played college ball and we ran 15 week cycles, it would take me 6 months to get back to normal levels. The longer you do testosterone, the longer it takes to get back to normal and getting back to normal is a big "if" even if you're popping clomid, nolvadex, and hcg. I have seen a dozen or so docs and no one has ever told me to stop anything, they just ask for a PSA and give me a script and say, "see you in 6 months,"

It's possible but it's rare

[PHC19]

(01-19-2015 05:23 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

My 2 cents: TRT can be a great thing, but it is not a biological free lunch, there are risks and implications in addition to benefits. If your natural test is good enough, you probably don't want to scheme your way into TRT just because you can.
Also, you should probably get your sperm frozen if you may still want to have kids. TRT has a good risk of making you infertile. It is true that TRT caused infertility is usually correctable with cessation of TRT and treatment with HCG and clomid, etc....but the time frame can be variable/lengthy, and it is not 100%.
It also can increase risk and progression of balding, as well as skin issues.
TRT also appears to raise your risk long term of certain cardiovascular problems, although the purported link to prostate cancer risk now appears false.
I think the best approach for someone considering this is to discuss your situation with a competent endocrinologist to get legit medical advice, and not go to one of those testosterone therapy clinics, who have a financial interest in giving maximal TRT doses to as many paying clients as possible.
** I'm not anti testosterone...in my mid 20s I did a couple of cycles and they were positive experiences. I will probably do a 3rd cycle in another 6 months or year, once I'm back in shape and ready for it.

TRT and cycles are COMPLETELY different things, with particular emphasis on the palliative elements of TRT (<200mg/week) vs. cycling (~500mg/week and above).

I've been on TRT for several years, and I have no intention of coming off.

There are no long-term studies on TRT, and to date there have been no 1:1 correlations applicable to the broader population between testosterone use and mortality. There is a good amount of research indicating morbidity factors related to LOW T and problems (bone/muscle loss, depression, lability, cardiac issues). It's all about trade-offs WRT TRT. And most of the "issues" regarding TRT surround creams and gels are OUTLIERS. [Hypogonadic] Low T<<<<TRT is a trade-off worth considering. This is obviously after controlling for other lifestyle factors (body composition, sleep, stress, diet).

People tend to straw-man the issues when citing popular examples (Lyle Alzado, pro-wrestlers, competitive athletes), without considering/controlling for other elements (lifestyle, drinking/drugs, competitive milieu, concussions, etc.).

[PHC19]

Consider consulting a TRT concierge clinic. Do your homework. Some are kooks, in it for a quick buck.

I read Nelson Vergel's Testosterone: A Man's Guide several years back, and ended up going with Defy Medical Clinic. They've been great - everything is done online and over the phone (I live in Seattle, they're located in Tampa).

Vergel has had HIV for ~20 years, and has used TRT to help defray the virus. He obviously has a LOT of skin in the game here.

[rhodey]

(02-22-2015 11:23 PM)PHC19 Wrote:  

Consider consulting a TRT concierge clinic. Do your homework. Some are kooks, in it for a quick buck.

I read Nelson Vergel's Testosterone: A Man's Guide several years back, and ended up going with Defy Medical Clinic. They've been great - everything is done online and over the phone (I live in Seattle, they're located in Tampa).

Nice, so what's their monthly charge? The wrote you a script without an in person checkup?

[Every10GivesMeA10]

Americans are lucky to have progressive endocrinologists and anti aging clinics.

Here in Europe, we're still in the stone age when it comes to TRT.

At least there are good underground labs here and its legal unlike the US.

[samsamsam]

(02-01-2015 08:41 AM)YardDog Wrote:  

Quote:

Why we need hCG:
1. IMPORTANT: To produce Pregnenelone; hCG activates the p450 side chain cleavage (p450scc) enzyme which converts cholesterol to Pregnenelone!!! (Read the link above, please.)
2. To produce the precursors for DHEA, Estrogen, Cortisol, Testosterone and DHT...back filling the pathways (See #1 above)
3. For proper and normal brain function
4. For proper functioning of the testicles
5. If men ever want to restart
6. If men ever want to have children
7. If men don't want balls that end up in a small mass of useless Collagen
8. The list goes on...

This is definitely my biggest concern is just being to have children down the road.

Anyone here been on and off TRT and had kids?

[s3k]

I think this a an excellent write-up. However I would advise reaching your maximum potential (natural) before juiceing.

[Repo]

How does TRT compare to steroid cycles in regards to acne? I've gone on a steroid cycle but had to stop due to very bad cystic acne.

[s3k]

http://www.defymedical.com/shop/product/8-testosterone
^^^ $30.00 Testosterone test. Says it tests for free and total test. Not sure if it tests anything else. Other T test noted in this thread seems to be more thorough however.
33, being at my genetic threshold (i.e. cant build anymore muscle or lose anymore fat) on diet and excersice alone, im thinking about trt. Wondering if i can walk into my pcp (primary care physician) office and ask for a T test which my insurence will pay for. Going to schedule an appt. And see. If not will probably order that test above.

[Fortis]

Any RVFers in the NJ area know any private labs where I can get a good Testosterone test done? The local clinic gave me my testosterone results, but the test wasn't very detailed. Currently don't have health insurance so I'm looking for a private lab that isn't going to rape me on prices.

So far I've learned a funny thing: In new jersey all the really popular labs don't have service because there's some weird thing going on where you have to buy the test directly from the lab or some such legal nonsense. Suffice to say that this entire situation is confusing: all I want to do is get an accurate, detailed hormone panel without paying $700 out of pocket.

[LINUX]

Fortis did you have a problem ordering the testosterone test I talked about in my inital post from LEF for $80 ?

Here is another one more comprehensive but more expensive: http://www.lef.org/vitamins-supplements/...blood-test

they offer kits in the mail so being in NJ should not be a problem, you can double check but I did mine in the mail when I ordered a food allergy test from them.

[WashedUPVet]

Reading this thread made me upset about getting rejected for TRT from my Dr two years ago. I was complaining about the normal low T symptoms and came back with a test number of 317. I didn't know how low it was at the time, but reading this thread leads me to believe I should get tested again and find another Doc. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the info Linux.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(03-08-2015 05:39 PM)Repo Wrote:  

How does TRT compare to steroid cycles in regards to acne? I've gone on a steroid cycle but had to stop due to very bad cystic acne.

Less on TRT but it can still happen. It really depends on the person.

If it does happen to you again (bad cystic acne, not just a pimple here or there), whether TRT or a steroid cycle, don't let that shit get out of hand. Immediately start on low dose accutane (10-20 mg/day).

http://mycanadastore.com/products/skin_c...ane/order/

[PhDre]

(05-27-2015 05:58 PM)WashedUPVet Wrote:  

Reading this thread made me upset about getting rejected for TRT from my Dr two years ago. I was complaining about the normal low T symptoms and came back with a test number of 317. I didn't know how low it was at the time, but reading this thread leads me to believe I should get tested again and find another Doc.

Yes you should. My doctor had no problem putting me on TRT with a level of 450 ng/dl at age 28. The guy even wanted to prescribe me hgh. A good doctor doesn't base his entire judgement on lab tests, but also listens to your complaints.

Look for an anti-aging doc or a doc that is frequented by a lot of (professional) athletes or rich people. Generally, these doctors will have a bit of a reputation (at least here in Europe) because they are frowned upon by conservative practitioners who insist that hormones are unsafe but have no problem putting you on cortisone, antibiotics, statins, ...

This T-nation thread is specifically about finding a TRT doc: http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_..._a_trt_doc

[jbkunt2]

I'm 28 and looking to take my first T test.

Can anyone recommend any pointers on ho to prepare for taking the test? E.g. should I avoid booze for X days? Time of Day? Etc.

[Merenguero]

(05-27-2015 05:58 PM)WashedUPVet Wrote:  

Reading this thread made me upset about getting rejected for TRT from my Dr two years ago. I was complaining about the normal low T symptoms and came back with a test number of 317. I didn't know how low it was at the time, but reading this thread leads me to believe I should get tested again and find another Doc. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the info Linux.

That's one hell of a doctor, not letting you know your levels were low when you were at 317. Definitely find another doctor.

[BallsDeep]

Would you guys advise to test for DHT prior to starting TRT?

[CleanSlate]

(07-24-2015 10:52 AM)BallsDeep Wrote:  

Would you guys advise to test for DHT prior to starting TRT?

It's a good idea to include that in your baseline labs before starting TRT. There is a lot you need to test to uncover or rule out any possible root causes of low testosterone.

Either your testosterone may be low in the absence of any glaring medical issues, or your comprehensive labs may show something that needs to be addressed prior to starting TRT.

PM me if you want to talk more.

[rhodey]

[Vaun]

672/92free for my last T test. Im 40. And thats with running 17%ish BF right now, drinking and banging 2-3 nights a week. I agree with everything this guy says above, and was set to get the therapy. My dad however is 82, full head of natural black hair, he looks like hes in his 60's. Former athlete, active as hell, always on his feet, super clean living for the last 50 years. Ill be lucky if I last like that. I will get it if I have to one day, for now Im good.