[kaotic]

Quote:

Washington (CNN) -- UPDATES

12:13 - "I do not believe we can continue doing the same thing for over five decades and expect a different result," President Obama said of the Cuban embargo.
Report: Cuba releases imprisoned American

12:10 - Despite normalized relations, President Obama said he still wants to support increased freedoms for citizens there. "I do not expect the changes I'm announcing today to bring about a change in Cuban society overnight," he said.

12:06 - Obama argued "isolation has not worked" in 50 years. He said more could be accomplished through engagement.

12:05 - The President said he had been ready to ease portions of the embargo "for some time," but that Gross needed to be released before he could move forward.

12:04 - President Obama said the U.S. embargo policy is "rooted in the best of intentions," but noted the Castro regime is still in power. He argued the U.S. is not well-served by a "rigid" policy in place longer than he has been alive.

12:02 p.m. ET - President Obama said the U.S. would "end an outdated approach" toward Cuba with eased sanctions.

U.S. contractor Alan Gross, held by the Cuban government since 2009, was freed Wednesday as part of a landmark deal with Cuba that paves the way for a major overhaul in U.S. policy toward the island, senior administration officials tell CNN.

President Barack Obama spoke with Cuban President Raul Castro Tuesday in a phone call that lasted about an hour and reflected the first communication at the presidential level with Cuba since the Cuban revolution, according to White House officials. Obama announced Gross' release and the new diplomatic stance at noon in Washington. At around the same time, Cuban president Raul Castro was set to speak in Havana.

President Obama announced a major loosening of travel and economic restrictions on the country. And the two nations are set to re-open embassies, with preliminary discussions on that next step in normalizing diplomatic relations beginning in the coming weeks, a senior administration official tells CNN.

Talks between the U.S. and Cuba have been ongoing since June of 2013 and were facilitated by the Canadians and the Vatican in brokering the deal. Pope Francis -- the first pope from Latin America -- encouraged Obama in a letter and in their meeting this year to renew talks with Cuba on pursuing a closer relationship.

Gross' "humanitarian" release by Cuba was accompanied by a separate spy swap, the officials said. Cuba also freed a U.S. intelligence source who has been jailed in Cuba for more than 20 years, although authorities did not identify that person for security reasons. The U.S. released three Cuban intelligence agents convicted of espionage in 2001.

The developments constitute what officials called the most sweeping change in U.S. policy toward Cuba since 1961, when the embassy closed and the embargo was imposed.

Officials described the planned actions as the most forceful changes the president could make without legislation passing through Congress.
Cuban agents to be 'treated as heroes'
Before release, Gross told wife 'goodbye'

READ: 'He will not endure another year,' says wife of imprisoned American
Photos: Americans detained abroad Photos: Americans detained abroad

For a President who took office promising to engage Cuba, the move could help shape Obama's foreign policy legacy.

"We are charting a new course toward Cuba," a senior administration official said. "The President understood the time was right to attempt a new approach, both because of the beginnings of changes in Cuba and because of the impediment this was causing for our regional policy."
Senators return home without Alan Gross

Gross was arrested after traveling under a program under the U.S. Agency for International Development to deliver satellite phones and other communications equipment to the island's small Jewish population.
Alan Gross's wife pleads for his release

Cuban officials charged he was trying to foment a "Cuban Spring." In 2011, he was convicted and sentenced to 15 years in prison for attempting to set up an Internet network for Cuban dissidents "to promote destabilizing activities and subvert constitutional order."

After losing hope and health in Cuba, Gross finally released
Rubio: Cuba using Alan Gross as a pawn

Senior administration officials and Cuba observers have said recent reforms on the island and changing attitudes in the United States have created an opening for improved relations. U.S. and Cuban officials say Washington and Havana in recent months have increased official technical-level contacts on a variety of issues.

Obama publicly acknowledged for the first time last week that Washington was negotiating with Havana for Gross' release through a "variety of channels."

"We've been in conversations about how we can get Alan Gross home for quite some time," Obama said in an interview with Fusion television network. "We continue to be concerned about him."

Sen. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., and Rep. Chris Van Hollen, Gross' Maryland congressman, are on the plane with Alan Gross and his wife, Judy, according to government officials.

The group of members left at 4 a.m. ET Wednesday from Washington for Cuba.

More on detained Americans

Gross' lawyer, Scott Gilbert, told CNN last month the years of confinement have taken their toll on his client. Gross has lost more than 100 pounds and is losing his teeth. His hips are so weak that he can barely walk and he has lost vision in one eye. He has also undertaken hunger strikes and threatened to take his own life.

With Gross' health in decline, a bipartisan group of 66 senators wrote Obama a letter in November 2013 urging him to "act expeditiously to take whatever steps are in the national interest to obtain [Gross's] release."

The three Cubans released as a part of the deal belonged the so-called Cuban Five, a quintet of Cuban intelligence officers convicted in 2001 for espionage. They were part of what was called the Wasp Network, which collected intelligence on prominent Cuban-American exile leaders and U.S. military bases.

The leader of the five, Gerardo Hernandez, was linked to the February 1996 downing of the two civilian planes operated by the U.S.-based dissident group Brothers to the Rescue, in which four men died. He is serving a two life sentences. Luis Medina, also known as Ramon Labanino; and Antonio Guerrero have just a few years left on their sentences.

The remaining two -- Rene Gonzalez and Fernando Gonzalez -- were released after serving most of their 15-year sentences and have already returned to Cuba, where they were hailed as heroes.

Wednesday's announcement that the U.S. will move toward restoring diplomatic ties with Cuba will also make it easier for Americans to travel to Cuba and do business with the Cuban people by extending general licenses, officials said. While the more liberal travel restrictions won't allow for tourism, they will permit greater American travel to the island.

Secretary of State John Kerry has also been instructed to review Cuba's place on the State Sponsors of Terrorism list, potentially paving the the way a lift on certain economic and political sanctions.

The revised relationship between the U.S. and Cuba comes ahead of the March 2015 Summit of the Americas, where the island country is set to participate for the first time. In the past, Washington has vetoed Havana's participation on the grounds it is not a democracy. This year, several countries have said they would not participate if Cuba was once again barred.

While only Congress can formally overturn the five decades-long embargo, the White House has some authorities to liberalize trade and travel to the island.

The 1996 Helms-Burton Act, which enshrined the embargo into legislation, allows for the President to extend general or specific licenses through a presidential determination, which could be justified as providing support for the Cuban people or democratic change in Cuba. Both Presidents Clinton and Obama exercised such authority to ease certain provisions of the regulations implementing the Cuba sanctions program.

READ: Could a U.S.-Cuba prisoner swap break the ice?

In an effort to boost the nascent Cuban private sector, the President will also allow expanded commercial sales and exports of goods and services to Cuba, particularly building materials for entrepreneurs and private residences, and allow greater business training, as well as permit greater communications hardware and services to go to the island.

Other announced changes permit U.S. and Cuban banks to build relationships and travelers to use credit and debit cards. U.S. travelers will be allowed to import up to $400 worth of goods from Cuba, including $100 in alcohol and tobacco -- even Cuban cigars. Remittances by Americans to their families back in Cuba will also be increased to approximately $2,000 per quarter.

Officials stressed the moves were not being undertaken to prop up the Castro regime, but rather to encourage further reforms on the island.

"None of this is seen as a reward. All of this is seen as a way of promoting change in Cuba because everything we have done in the past has demonstrably failed," another senior administration official said. "This is not the U.S. government saying Cuba has gotten so much better. It is still an authoritarian state and we still have profound differences with this government."

"But if we hope for change with Cuba, we must try for a different approach. And we believe that considerably more engagement with the Cuban people and the Cuban government is the way to do that," the official said, adding that the United States "will not for a moment lessen our support for improvement in human rights."

To that end, Cuba has agreed to release 53 political prisoners from a list of names provided by the United States. At least one of the prisoners has already been released. Havana has also agreed to permit significant access by its citizens to the Internet and allow the International Committee of the Red Cross and United Nations human rights officials back on the island for the first time in years.

Talks on a deal began between senior White House and Cuban officials last year and happened in fits and starts, officials said. The officials praised the role the Vatican played as guarantor of the process.

Officials would not reveal the name of the U.S. intelligence source, but officials said he was the individual who revealed to the U.S. the Wasp network, which included the Cuban Five.

"He was a very important hero," the U.S. official said.

The moves are far more sweeping than the last action Obama took toward Cuba in January 2011, when he eased restrictions on travel to and from the island. Relations have been largely frozen since Gross' conviction and the White House has made his release a condition of improved ties.

In 2013, Obama drew praise from advocates of changing U.S. policy toward Cuba when he said the U.S. had to be "creative" and "thoughtful" about fostering change on the island.

"The notion that the same policies that we put in place in 1961 would somehow still be as effective as they are today, in the age of the Internet and Google and world travel, doesn't make sense," Obama said at a November 2013 fundraiser in Florida. "We have to continue to update our policies."

[TheWastelander]

After the Soviet Union fell we should've told them to reform their government or we'd invade and fuck them six ways from Sunday.

They honestly deserve it. Castro wanted the USSR to nuke us.

The Cuban government has been an asshole and troublemaker for decades. Normalizing relations with them is stupid since the same people are still in power and I don't see how we stand to benefit from it.

I don't like people who, in the past, wanted to kill me and remain unapologetic about that.

[NilNisiOptimum]

I'm in favor of anything that brings quality Cuban cigars to the US.

[kaotic]

(12-17-2014 12:43 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

After the Soviet Union fell we should've told them to reform their government or we'd invade and fuck them six ways from Sunday.

They honestly deserve it. Castro wanted the USSR to nuke us.

The Cuban government has been an asshole and troublemaker for decades. Normalizing relations with them is stupid since the same people are still in power and I don't see how we stand to benefit from it.

What kind of trouble have they caused recently ?

Traveling there sounds good to me, once it's fully open, i'll bet you anything Cuba will become less and less communist.

There's always some trade to be done, and I'm sure big oil will out there as well.

Afterall we're BFF's with China, they killed a ton of our soldiers during the Korean war and kill their own people and are communist.

[Tex Pro]

Obama announces US will establish embassy in Cuba:

http://rt.com/usa/215331-obama-cuba-policy-embassy/

[TheWastelander]

(12-17-2014 12:47 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 12:43 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

After the Soviet Union fell we should've told them to reform their government or we'd invade and fuck them six ways from Sunday.

They honestly deserve it. Castro wanted the USSR to nuke us.

The Cuban government has been an asshole and troublemaker for decades. Normalizing relations with them is stupid since the same people are still in power and I don't see how we stand to benefit from it.

What kind of trouble have they caused recently ?

Traveling there sounds good to me, once it's fully open, i'll bet you anything Cuba will become less and less communist.

There's always some trade to be done, and I'm sure big oil will out there as well.

Afterall we're BFF's with China, they killed a ton of our soldiers during the Korean war and kill their own people and are communist.

Being buddy buddy with Chavez and the socialist authoritarians in Venezuela that have wrecked that country.

As far as us being "BFFs" with China, we became "friends" with them because it was in our interest to further the Sino-Soviet split. Enemy of my enemy sorta deal. There's nothing nearly as significant to be gained here.

[Tex Pro]

This is good. No reason to still hold a grudge against Cuba.

If this is true, then expect Cuba to become a boomtown: tourist resorts, normalized trade relations, off-shore banking, etc...

Viva Cuba!

[DJ-Matt]

I did some reading up on this and supposedly all the master cigar makers went to other countries so they could sell to the US when the embargo started in the 50s.

So essentially those cigars wouldn't be all that special unless the locally grown tobacco was different.

[Yatagan]

Hopefully America normalizes relations with Iran next.

[Alpharius]

Here’s what you need to know about what’s happening between the U.S. and Cuba:

• The U.S. will restore full diplomatic relations with Cuba and open an embassy in Havana (no date has been set). Diplomatic relations broke in 1961, but since 1977 the U.S. has maintained an “interests section” on the island housed in the Swiss embassy.
• The deal was struck after a year and a half of secret talks between high-level U.S. and Cuban officials. The negotiations were held mostly in Canada, but the deal was finalized during a meeting at the Vatican this fall.
• Pope Francis wrote letters to President Obama and Cuban President Raúl Castro urging them to mend relations between their two nations. The Vatican was the only other government to directly participate in the discussions between Cuba and the U.S.
• Obama spoke to Raúl Castro by phone for 45 minutes to an hour on Tuesday to finalize the agreement, according to senior administration officials. It’s believed to be the first direct conversation between U.S. and Cuban heads of state since the revolution.
• Fidel Castro, Raúl’s brother and the historic leader of the Cuban revolution, was not involved in the discussions, administration officials said.
• Gross wasn’t part of this morning’s prisoner swap, U.S. officials say. The ailing former contractor was released from Cuba on “humanitarian grounds,” while the real prisoner swap was for another unidentified American “intelligence asset,” who was traded for the three Cuban intelligence officers who were also released this morning. All five members of the Cuban Five have been released by the U.S.
• The “intelligence asset” played a key role in providing information that led to the initial arrest of the Cuban Five and other members of a spy ring known as “the Wasp Network,” who were arrested in Miami almost 15 years ago, an administration official said.
• Cuba has also agreed to release 53 prisoners, identified by U.S. officials as political prisoners.
• The White House has directed Secretary of State John Kerry to review Cuba’s designation as a state sponsor of terror. Cuba has been on the terror list since 1982.
• The Obama administration is taking steps to ease restrictions on travel, trade, and remittances with Cuba. Congressional approval is needed to lift the Cuban embargo.
• It will be easier for Americans to apply to travel to Cuba under 12 existing permitted categories: visiting family, official government business, journalism, professional research, education, religious purposes, public performances, support for the Cuban people, humanitarian projects, private foundation work, and export activity. General tourism will not be permitted.
• The government will lift some restrictions on U.S. banks working with their Cuban counterparts. American credit and debit cards will work in Cuba.
• The amount of remittances allowed to Cubans will be raised to $2,000 per quarter, up from $500 under current levels.
• Yes, you can now bring Cuban cigars back to the U.S. Americans can bring back $400 in general goods from Cuba, including $100 and alcohol and tobacco products. The goods can be for personal consumption only, and cannot be brought back to the U.S. for sale.
• The Obama administration will loosen regulations on the export of telecommunications equipment to Cuba in an effort to boost Internet connectivity on the island.
• Congress is deeply divided over the administration’s changes. A bipartisan delegation traveled to Cuba and is flying back to the U.S. with Gross: Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), and Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.)
• Cuban-American lawmakers in both parties are furious over the Obama administration’s actions. Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.)said the president “vindicated the brutal behavior of the Cuban government” and Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) called the announcement “absurd” during an interview with Fox News.
  

Source

Also, Nicaraguan cigars are roughly the same in quality to Cubans, they just don't have the brand image that Cubans had. Most of that is a holdover from 60 years ago, made legendary by their lack of availability in America.

[PUA_Rachacha]

(12-17-2014 12:53 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  

I did some reading up on this and supposedly all the master cigar makers went to other countries so they could sell to the US when the embargo started in the 50s.

So essentially those cigars wouldn't be all that special unless the locally grown tobacco was different.

Have you ever tried a genuine Cuban cigar? The best ones I've ever had were Cohibas smuggled in. Incredible taste.

[weambulance]

^

I haven't. But I am skeptical that Cuban cigars are a cut above the rest. There's so much hype over them, that alone could explain why people perceive them as better: because they're expecting them to be.

The same thing applies to expensive alcohol, vinyl records, and Stradivarius violins.

[IvanDrago]

(12-17-2014 01:02 PM)Seboist Wrote:  

Hopefully America normalizes relations with Iran next.

Of course they will one day because Eastasia is our friend, Eastasia has always been our friend. Eurasia is our enemy.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

Let the games begin.

[TigerMandingo]

(12-17-2014 12:43 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

After the Soviet Union fell we should've told them to reform their government or we'd invade and fuck them six ways from Sunday.

They honestly deserve it. Castro wanted the USSR to nuke us.

The Cuban government has been an asshole and troublemaker for decades. Normalizing relations with them is stupid since the same people are still in power and I don't see how we stand to benefit from it.

I don't like people who, in the past, wanted to kill me and remain unapologetic about that.

This sound like a Fox News soundbite. Highly paranoid and irrational. Cubans pose no serious threat to the US. In fact, it is the Cuban people that have suffered the most at the hands of the ridiculous US embargo.

[lskdfjldsf]

Normalizing relations and possibly ending travels bans to a country a stones throw from the US, with beautiful weather and girls, the worlds best cigars, having lived under Communism while smuggling American culture into the country like its heroine? This is fucking fantastic news.

Cuba will be the new Great Vaginal Frontier for the American man, like how our grandfathers fucked their way through liberated Europe as heroes. It's Ukraine in 1996 and you're a millionaire with an extra Green Card in hand, strolling down the road.

Maybe I'm too optimistic or have just been in Europe too long, but Latina girls inspire my boner with ferocity. An untapped market opening up can never be a bad thing.

[MrXY]

There are plenty of premium cigars available from other places.

I'm more interested in how to get premium Cuban pussy.

There isn't much on the forum about Cuban girls.

[TheWastelander]

(12-17-2014 01:20 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 12:43 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

After the Soviet Union fell we should've told them to reform their government or we'd invade and fuck them six ways from Sunday.

They honestly deserve it. Castro wanted the USSR to nuke us.

The Cuban government has been an asshole and troublemaker for decades. Normalizing relations with them is stupid since the same people are still in power and I don't see how we stand to benefit from it.

I don't like people who, in the past, wanted to kill me and remain unapologetic about that.

This sound like a Fox News soundbite. Highly paranoid and irrational. Cubans pose no serious threat to the US. In fact, it is the Cuban people that have suffered the most at the hands of the ridiculous US embargo.

Explain which part of that is paranoid or irrational? Or where I implied they pose a current threat to the US?

The Cuban people have suffered at the hands of their Communist government. Blaming their problems on the US is misguided as hell.

[Icepasian]

Welp. The Democrats just lost Florida for the next 50 years. I imagine there are thousands of Cubans in Miami changing their voter registrations as we speak.

[Grange]

The people taking this news the hardest are probably the Cuban government because they're the ones who benefit most from the embargo. Having it in place for a few years was silly. Having it in place for 50 years is a national embarrassment.

[Seth_Rose]

I'm not a fan of Obama by any means, but I will give him props for this if things go through.

[Grange]

(12-17-2014 01:22 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:20 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 12:43 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

After the Soviet Union fell we should've told them to reform their government or we'd invade and fuck them six ways from Sunday.

They honestly deserve it. Castro wanted the USSR to nuke us.

The Cuban government has been an asshole and troublemaker for decades. Normalizing relations with them is stupid since the same people are still in power and I don't see how we stand to benefit from it.

I don't like people who, in the past, wanted to kill me and remain unapologetic about that.

This sound like a Fox News soundbite. Highly paranoid and irrational. Cubans pose no serious threat to the US. In fact, it is the Cuban people that have suffered the most at the hands of the ridiculous US embargo.

Explain which part of that is paranoid or irrational? Or where I implied they pose a current threat to the US?

The Cuban people have suffered at the hands of their Communist government. Blaming their problems on the US is misguided as hell.

Do you really think the Cuban government would have lasted for so long without the US embargo to blame? Without it they would have been exposed as failures decades ago.

[tomtud]

I have been to Cuba several times and getting top cuban tail isn't easy. Maybe once they open it up, legalize a lot of things and locals won't be afraid to date a foreigner or else be seen as a prostitute will need to change. Yes you can have a Cuban girl but if you don't register in the right government office and she I seen by their secret police with another dude, they will arrest her on suspicion of prostitution.

Cuba for me is a beautiful island with beautiful beaches and not too far from home. My advice,,,,, whatever you do, don't marry one unless you plan on living there. I have read, seen and know of too many passport hunters both male and female from there.

I hope the USA gives Guantanamo back to Cuba and stop its imperialistic tendencies.

[Alpharius]

(12-17-2014 01:20 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

There isn't much on the forum about Cuban girls.

There will after this summer. I've been planning my legal trip there for some time now.

One small trip for man, one large data sheet for the RVF.

[kaotic]

NOTE: I was being satirical about the cigars

I really see more positive than negative coming from this.