[TheWastelander]

(12-17-2014 01:28 PM)Grange Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:22 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:20 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 12:43 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

After the Soviet Union fell we should've told them to reform their government or we'd invade and fuck them six ways from Sunday.

They honestly deserve it. Castro wanted the USSR to nuke us.

The Cuban government has been an asshole and troublemaker for decades. Normalizing relations with them is stupid since the same people are still in power and I don't see how we stand to benefit from it.

I don't like people who, in the past, wanted to kill me and remain unapologetic about that.

This sound like a Fox News soundbite. Highly paranoid and irrational. Cubans pose no serious threat to the US. In fact, it is the Cuban people that have suffered the most at the hands of the ridiculous US embargo.

Explain which part of that is paranoid or irrational? Or where I implied they pose a current threat to the US?

The Cuban people have suffered at the hands of their Communist government. Blaming their problems on the US is misguided as hell.

Do you really think the Cuban government would have lasted for so long without the US embargo to blame? Without it they would have been exposed as failures decades ago.

Yes. The government controls the narrative and has all the guns.

Did the Chicoms' control collapse when relations with them were normalized? How about the Vietnamese?

No and if that's your theory then you should tell the US government to normalize relations with the North Koreans so the magic of America can collapse their shitty dictatorship.

American businesses seeking cheap labor, however, profited greatly.

I suspect we'll see something similar in Cuba in the future. American companies with sweatshops and kickbacks going to Cuban government officials, but the government there is not going to relinquish the control they have over their population.

So we'll be helping them transform from destitute communists to a lovely hybrid of communism and neo-feudalism. That is progress of a sort, I suppose.

[kaotic]

Naughty Nomad, Fisto, and Swoop The World had some great info on Cuban girls.

[8ball]

I have no idea why this is taken so long but this is actually great news and probably the best thing Obama has done diplomatically!

Cuba has the best beaches period, forget Jamaica/Bahamas/Dominican, the women are friendly and feminine even though they are a bit malnourished, you can tell when you compare them to their Miami cousins.

Here is what will happen:

US establishes diplomatic relations.
American travel to Cuba and love it but demand better service, unlike the Canadians that dominate the tourist scene there and who are too pussy to say anything.
Unprofitable public companies(which is virtually all of them) will be privatized to the highest bidder however the US will assert control so that American corps will control key sectors(telecom being one of them).
Since american citizens don't know this yet but The current resorts in Varadero, Caya Coco offer way better deals then an Caribbean destination. Mexico/Bahamas/Dominican will have to lower their prices.
The cuban Goverment will lease more pristine beach for hotel-resort development. Great time for us to invest, purchase property and get contracts in Cuba. Cuba has been very closed off and they don't have the technical expertise to do anything. They will need a very large group of expat to help bring it to the 21st century.

In a few years rfvers Havana will be all over the travel section and not DR.

[Mike5055]

I'm surprised it took this long.

[Saga]

Makes sense, it's seemed as though Washington has been willing to do something like this for awhile but for the political consequences. Also, the timing is very interesting...hard to think it's completely unrelated to what's going on between America and Russia (Russia recently started reestablishing closer relations with Havana, and this could potentially undercut those efforts).

(12-17-2014 01:22 PM)Icepasian Wrote:  

Welp. The Democrats just lost Florida for the next 50 years. I imagine there are thousands of Cubans in Miami changing their voter registrations as we speak.

It should have a political impact but I don't think it'll be that heavy or lasting. In my experience, younger Cuban-Americans are less hardline, they mostly just want things in Cuba to loosen up (which will likely happen if businesses set up shop) and to be able to visit and stay there easily. And although it's hard to read the Cuban government's intentions, it isn't too much a stretch to imagine Havana allowing investment from Miami, but that depends entirely on whether ideology or practicality hold more sway.

[Tex Pro]

(12-17-2014 01:22 PM)Icepasian Wrote:  

Welp. The Democrats just lost Florida for the next 50 years. I imagine there are thousands of Cubans in Miami changing their voter registrations as we speak.

Bullshit.

Younger Cubans don't give a shit about the grudge their parents and grandparents have against Cuba. More and more younger Cubans are becoming Democrats. In fact, a majority of younger Cubans are now Dems.

[Alpharius]

Seriously though - anyone interested in investing in Cuba when the time comes, please keep me posted.

[Grange]

(12-17-2014 01:34 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:28 PM)Grange Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:22 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:20 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 12:43 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

After the Soviet Union fell we should've told them to reform their government or we'd invade and fuck them six ways from Sunday.

They honestly deserve it. Castro wanted the USSR to nuke us.

The Cuban government has been an asshole and troublemaker for decades. Normalizing relations with them is stupid since the same people are still in power and I don't see how we stand to benefit from it.

I don't like people who, in the past, wanted to kill me and remain unapologetic about that.

This sound like a Fox News soundbite. Highly paranoid and irrational. Cubans pose no serious threat to the US. In fact, it is the Cuban people that have suffered the most at the hands of the ridiculous US embargo.

Explain which part of that is paranoid or irrational? Or where I implied they pose a current threat to the US?

The Cuban people have suffered at the hands of their Communist government. Blaming their problems on the US is misguided as hell.

Do you really think the Cuban government would have lasted for so long without the US embargo to blame? Without it they would have been exposed as failures decades ago.

Yes. The government controls the narrative and has all the guns.

Did the Chicoms' control collapse when relations with them were normalized? How about the Vietnamese?

No and if that's your theory then you should tell the US government to normalize relations with the North Koreans so the magic of America can collapse their shitty dictatorship.

American businesses seeking cheap labor, however, profited greatly.

I suspect we'll see something similar in Cuba in the future. American companies with sweatshops and kickbacks going to Cuban government officials, but the government there is not going to relinquish the control they have over their population.

First, the difference between China/Vietnam and Cuba is that Cuba is within the American 'sphere of influence.' If there were no embargo there would be 500,000+ Americans there at all times. You think that wouldn't help things?

Second, don't get hung up on how countries describe themselves, instead look at what they do. China and Vietnam are still officially socialist but in practice are part of the normal global order now. Do you think China would be more amenable if relations never got normalized?

The embargo is the greatest propaganda tool the Cuban government has. You can lament that they don't respect us or whatever, but don't let that get in the way of results.

[kosko]

Great...so a rush if American culture and bad habits such as shitty food and obese 'Meruicans will rush Cuba now.

In 2014 I think its a achievement when a place has no McDonalds and is shielded from American culture.

You can't on one hand applaud this move but not accept that Cuba will now change and become just like the rest of places with those host of issues of being tied into the Western matrix.

[perverted sage]

They,re doing this because things with Russia are heating up and they do not want a repeat of the Cuban missile crises. Expect a lot of capital injection into the Cuban economy by the Americans.

[TheWastelander]

(12-17-2014 01:59 PM)Grange Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:34 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:28 PM)Grange Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:22 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:20 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

This sound like a Fox News soundbite. Highly paranoid and irrational. Cubans pose no serious threat to the US. In fact, it is the Cuban people that have suffered the most at the hands of the ridiculous US embargo.

Explain which part of that is paranoid or irrational? Or where I implied they pose a current threat to the US?

The Cuban people have suffered at the hands of their Communist government. Blaming their problems on the US is misguided as hell.

Do you really think the Cuban government would have lasted for so long without the US embargo to blame? Without it they would have been exposed as failures decades ago.

Yes. The government controls the narrative and has all the guns.

Did the Chicoms' control collapse when relations with them were normalized? How about the Vietnamese?

No and if that's your theory then you should tell the US government to normalize relations with the North Koreans so the magic of America can collapse their shitty dictatorship.

American businesses seeking cheap labor, however, profited greatly.

I suspect we'll see something similar in Cuba in the future. American companies with sweatshops and kickbacks going to Cuban government officials, but the government there is not going to relinquish the control they have over their population.

First, the difference between China/Vietnam and Cuba is that Cuba is within the American 'sphere of influence.' If there were no embargo there would be 500,000+ Americans there at all times. You think that wouldn't help things?

Second, don't get hung up on how countries describe themselves, instead look at what they do. China and Vietnam are still officially socialist but in practice are part of the normal global order now. Do you think China would be more amenable if relations never got normalized?

The embargo is the greatest propaganda tool the Cuban government has. You can lament that they don't respect us or whatever, but don't let that get in the way of results.

You're playing a 'What If' guessing game based on nothing. Your theory is that without the embargo, Cuba would've been overrun with Americans, which I highly doubt. The embargo is 55 years old, 33 of which were during the Cold War. Which communist nations during the Cold War allowed hundreds of thousands of Americans into them?

Meanwhile my prediction that Cuba will end up like China and Vietnam with a corrupt police state and neo-feudalism is based on a real world track record.

I hope I'm wrong, but there's absolutely no reason to believe what you're saying is likely at all.

[ms224]

So , how many political prisoners will the castros release?

Actual freedom of speech?

Will they compensate anyone for taking their property? (Starting with, say the Bacardi family and going on down?)

Will any of the lefty appeasers protest the use of torture , murder and unlawful detention by the castros?

Warmongering in Africa?

List is pretty long.



Yea, thought so.

Nothing but hypocritical bootlickers.

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

(12-17-2014 01:04 PM)Osiris Wrote:  

[*]It will be easier for Americans to apply to travel to Cuba under 12 existing permitted categories: visiting family, official government business, journalism, professional research, education, religious purposes, public performances, support for the Cuban people, humanitarian projects, private foundation work, and export activity. General tourism will not be permitted.

Whats up with all the high fiving? This says tourism is still not permitted.

[Alpharius]

(12-17-2014 02:21 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Meanwhile my prediction that Cuba will end up like China and Vietnam with a corrupt police state and neo-feudalism is based on a real world track record.

I hope I'm wrong, but there's absolutely no reason to believe what you're saying is likely at all.

Cuba has a few distinct advantages over those countries - highly educated populace, skilled workforce, good relations with nearby countries, expanding trade, and limited violence and upheaval in the past few decades (stretching back to 1961).

[ms224]

(12-17-2014 02:44 PM)Osiris Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 02:21 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Meanwhile my prediction that Cuba will end up like China and Vietnam with a corrupt police state and neo-feudalism is based on a real world track record.

I hope I'm wrong, but there's absolutely no reason to believe what you're saying is likely at all.

Cuba has a few distinct advantages over those countries - highly educated populace, skilled workforce, good relations with nearby countries, expanding trade, and limited violence and upheaval in the past few decades (stretching back to 1961).

And it was held together by a brutal dictator, like say Yugoslavia.

[YossariansRight]

I want one of Gullwing Mercedes Benz SLs that are there. And a Cohiba.

What about the properties of US businesses and Cubans that were confiscated and “nationalized”?

[perverted sage]

(12-17-2014 02:06 PM)perverted sage Wrote:  

They,re doing this because things with Russia are heating up and they do not want a repeat of the Cuban missile crises. Expect a lot of capital injection into the Cuban economy by the Americans.

I was on my cellphone that's why it came out this way^^^
This is my comment without the misspellings:

They're doing this because things with Russia are heating up and they do not want a repeat of the Cuban missile crisis. Expect a lot of capital to be injected into the Cuban economy by the Americans.

[Dismal Operator]

(12-17-2014 02:36 PM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:04 PM)Osiris Wrote:  

[*]It will be easier for Americans to apply to travel to Cuba under 12 existing permitted categories: visiting family, official government business, journalism, professional research, education, religious purposes, public performances, support for the Cuban people, humanitarian projects, private foundation work, and export activity. General tourism will not be permitted.

Whats up with all the high fiving? This says tourism is still not permitted.

Well ROK articles on gaming Cuban women can't be done by proxy...journalism and professional research satisfied in one go.

[lavidaloca]

Yea, I gotta be honest I don't see why this is making so much news. Heres the things people are missing.

1) General tourism is not permitted (so Americans ain't going to be going there like crazy)

2) Increased Remittances (this doesn't mean fuck all. It has moreso income tax effects / documentation in America as people easily avoided any limits already. Every Cuban American knows how to get around the limits that were put in place)

3) An American Embassy...(Wow...theres an indian embassy...do you know how many people travelling from India I've ever met in Cuba. 1 he was the ambassador lol)

4) No big businesses aren't coming into Cuba anytime soon. There are heavy protectionist policies in place. In makes no sense for Cuba to remove those as effectively they'd be chopping the arms off of all of their rich citizens who own high end restaurants, bar, etc.) Those rich citizens are the ones that effectively influence the country.

5) Cuba will not end up being some incredible pussy paradise for American men. There will be too much prostitution but in terms of regular girls no.

6) In terms of bringing alcohol and cigars - they were already being smuggled in mass. You ever seen the reverse where a Cuban goes to the airport with 12 bags of luggage and 15 hats on, 7 coats, 6 t shirts etc.) People were already doing that with cigars and alcohol.

What we really have is an agreement between two political leaders to swap prisoners and make some small changes that really just allow for better documentation and less hiding what was already being done.

[Cattle Rustler]

Fuck, that place is going to turn into a Cancun 2.0 I'm the next couple of years with all the resort development.


Better go now and enjoy the authenticity before the yanks fuck it up

[jariel]

(12-17-2014 03:17 PM)YossariansRight Wrote:  

I want one of Gullwing Mercedes Benz SLs that are there. And a Cohiba.

Come to the 305, I've got real CoRo on deck...

[Switch]

The American influence will change another culture. I just want to see Cuba before all of those badass old cars get replaced. Why are Cuban Americans getting mad? Isn't this a good thing for their economy? Will this mean a lot more immigration from Cuba to the US? Will high-quality baseball players immigrate en masse? Lots of questions. It will be exciting to see how this will play out.

[lavidaloca]

why would there be a mass immigration. Cuba and America aren't going to allow that. America doesn't want average Cubans they want the highly educated ones. Cuba won't want to give them those people.

[Seth_Rose]

^^^ You're right, just like we keep out all the average Mexicans and let all the highly educated and skilled ones in

The far-left loves mass immigration as it breaks down the culture of the country, weakening peoples cohesiveness, thus giving the government more authority.

As I said before, I think this needed to be done at some point. However, I forgot to ask: Why?

Why now? Why in the middle of the night? Why didn't he consult with Congress?

There are a few possibilities:

1.) The Vatican played a huge role in this, how will they make $$$?
2.) They might want to keep Russia at bay from potentially storing weapons there,
3.) Is this an important step to getting rid of Guantanamo?

I don't like Obama, but he is a smart man. He doesn't act without reason. I want to know what his reason was for doing this now.

[DJ-Matt]

At least they'll be able to buy new cars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yank_tank

Quote:

Yank tank or máquina are the words used to describe the many classic cars (for example: 1957 Chevrolet, 1953 Ford, 1958 Dodge, etc.) present in Cuba with an estimated 60,000 of them still driving the roads today. In 1962 a United States embargo against Cuba was introduced, effectively cutting trade between the two countries. This meant that the cars in Cuba could no longer receive new replacement parts when something broke. Currently, the only way to keep these cars on the road today is by using Cuban ingenuity to adapt household products and Soviet technology into these vehicles. If a car is unable to be repaired at the time, the car is usually either “parked” for future repair or “parted out” (to produce extra income for the owner’s family) so that other cars can remain on the road.[