[Ensam]

(12-07-2014 02:25 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Unless you fit into the bottom tier (a gruesome drooling gargoyle) or the top tier (a ripped adonis who crosses all the ts), you can ignore looks. If you go out with an array of people, you will realise that looks is not the closer. There are too many offers out there for lizards where looks is not going to be enough for you to give up the battle.
I've gone out in several different countries with all sorts of people to know this to be the case.

So why does my success rate go up with women when my bf drops below 18%? I've had women I know specifically tell me my face looks more attractive when it's leaner. Is that not looks? I agree that for most men it's probably not enough on it's own but to say it doesn't matter is naive and selling guys who could do easy things to change their appearance short. It's not that I don't get laid when I'm not looking my best but it's a hell of a lot easier when I have everything tuned in.

Get in shape. Dress well. Fix your body posture. Develop a presence.

All of those things will change how attractive you appear to women - and it helps tremendously.

[Moma]

(12-07-2014 02:12 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(12-07-2014 01:57 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Taking something home at the end of the night beats going home and wanking..or no?

Call me weird but I would in all honesty rather go home alone than bring a sub par chick home. Dunno why, but when I bang a below average looking chick I just feel disgusted with myself the next day. Not to mention they can often turn into clingers who can be almost impossible to get rid of.

That's fine and I'm similar. My boner test is the signal but I won't take super fatties home. I went to some club once with my Jamaican friend in Toronto and some big bus who was already perspiring came up and asked me if I like to dance. She was wide as she was tall and I shook my head in annoyance.

[Truth Teller]

(12-07-2014 01:10 PM)Redwood Wrote:  

Some guys with high notch counts use that metric to fill a void in their life instead of it being a byproduct of their lifestyles.

The dirty secret about game is that a lot of guys get into it because they're filling a hole in their lives. I was really, really fucked up emotionally when I got into game. As I confronted my problems, I got better at game, but I now find it to be something to do on the side, not my life.

[Truth Teller]

(12-07-2014 02:25 PM)Moma Wrote:  

As men, we work towards things we can improve. And every year, we have an aggregation of people that start harping on about looks, looks, looks. Everything matters. But the ultimate decider is mindset AND application.

Unless you fit into the bottom tier (a gruesome drooling gargoyle) or the top tier (a ripped adonis who crosses all the ts), you can ignore looks. If you go out with an array of people, you will realise that looks is not the closer. There are too many offers out there for lizards where looks is not going to be enough for you to give up the battle.
I've gone out in several different countries with all sorts of people to know this to be the case.

Agreed. The guys who keep saying "looks" often use it as an excuse to not approach. Look at the puahate trolls.

I've said it a billion times. If you're in shape, wearing decent clothes, and have a decent haircut, you're fine.

[Truth Teller]

(12-07-2014 01:23 PM)Irish Wrote:  

Normally I find guys who have impressive numbers often, tho not always, bang a lot of chicks mainly cos they're just trying to impress their friends. One guy I know in particular will take home some right hogs just for the +1 and the backslapping from his bros the following day. This constant need for peer validation/approval is a clear symptom of some deep underlying unhappiness.

Men get into this because they want to have sex with more women. After a certain point, you stay in to impress other men.

[speakeasy]

(12-07-2014 01:10 PM)Redwood Wrote:  

Some guys with high notch counts use that metric to fill a void in their life instead of it being a byproduct of their lifestyles.

I also think at the heart of it, they are looking for validation. Sometimes it's just the male craving for variety. But often it's a matter of feeling like one is worth more if they have bedded more women. The easiest way to have lots of sex and often is to just get a girlfriend, obviously.

(12-07-2014 10:33 AM)Neo Wrote:  

Emphasis on spam approaching and cold approaching.

A lot of guys don't use their intuition to approach girls who will be receptive to their personality and vibe. It's like doing a direct mail campaign based on random names picked out of the phone book. Too many non prospects in the pool.

I believe this is why a lot of guys get discouraged and are obsessed over the numbers.

This is fine when you're starting out and need the experience...just approach any girl you find attractive. But over time it's easier to niche down using your previous experiences and intuition to girls that you have a higher chance of banging.

Also only approaching random girls and not enough emphasis on social circle or 'familiarity game.'

Example. Recently I banged a barista from a coffee shop I often frequent.

The strategy takess a while to bear fruit. It's like content marketing where you're playing the 'long game' but my effort was minimal. I'd just chat with her for a bit while I was getting my coffee, then get to work. I'd use every interaction as a way to just build more comfort and attraction. I felt it was on so one Saturday night I was working in the coffee shop and after I was meeting some friends to watch the UFC. I just asked her if she wanted to come and she agreed.

My friend did the same thing with a stripper. He stops by some clubs after work. He has a girlfriend but is always on the prowl. He never bought dances from this girl, just built a connection with her when he was at the club. Ended up banging her a few months later.

Trust and familiarity are overlooked in game culture. It's mainly a marketing move because people want instant results and that tends to look more impressive.

Good points. I like the comparisons to marketing. RSD = spamming everyone in sight. Your approach above is like target marketing. What I think would be great is to have a game equivalent of inbound marketing. I just don't know what that would be. Maybe some kind of mini-fame that draws girls to you.

[Moma]

(12-07-2014 03:31 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I also think at the heart of it, they are looking for validation. Sometimes it's just the male craving for variety. But often it's a matter of feeling like one is worth more if they have bedded more women. The easiest way to have lots of sex and often is to just get a girlfriend, obviously.

True but sexing the same lizard gets boring, just like eating the same meal all the time.
Unfortunately, with the Western society, girlfriends are losing value. They can't cook, shutup and many are insensitive to male needs. They also spending less and less time in being feminine since the hordes of betas and social media means they will never be short for synthetic attention.

[The_e_man]

^ had to begrudgingly "like" Mama's post here. Not because I like the content of it, but because it speaks the cold hard truth.

[Cattle Rustler]

(12-07-2014 03:41 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(12-07-2014 03:31 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I also think at the heart of it, they are looking for validation. Sometimes it's just the male craving for variety. But often it's a matter of feeling like one is worth more if they have bedded more women. The easiest way to have lots of sex and often is to just get a girlfriend, obviously.

True but sexing the same lizard gets boring, just like eating the same meal all the time.
Unfortunately, with the Western society, girlfriends are losing value. They can't cook, shutup and many are insensitive to male needs. They also spending less and less time in being feminine since the hordes of betas and social media means they will never be short for synthetic attention.

I don't know where people get this "can't cook, shutup, are insensitive" stuff. I guess they keep reading "fall of the west" stuff that they think it's reality.

I've met a shitload of girls who like to cook, say " I want to make you something", are too quiet, and love to fuck. Of course she ain't going to know shit if she's 18, she's been coodled by her family her whole life.

These old school chicks must be the package.

[Moma]

Cattle first of all, are these 'shitload' of lizards that you met attractive? Secondly, how many of these lizards have you dated?
Of course, I'm not saying all of them are wack but the numbers are increasing and worse of all, it's deemed as normal in society.

I took some food to work the other month. It was goat and rice. Some of the female coworkers came in and said "Ooh, that smells nice, who made it?"
I said that I did.
One of them said "Wow, my daughter's husband does all the cooking, she doesn't cook"
Another of them didn't say anything. I see from her lunch that she is not a cook and she has been married thrice.

I brought a lizard home the other week (no bang). She is a mother but cannot cook. Said she is a burger and fries girl with no shame. Gave her some of my food which she enjoyed and she hinted that she would like to take some of it home.
Since my balls were full of semen (her fault), I pretended to not understand the hint and she left.

I'm not the type to complain etc. I'm in the nicer part of the US regarding lizards but I'm telling you, the Western reptile is not improving, bro. They are getting sloppier and sloppier.

[WestIndianArchie]

On high notch counts

Honest to goodness, sex addict
Variety
Seeking validation from women, from men
Filling an internal hole
Chasing that first high
In it for the hunt, not the kill
Don't know anything else
Fear of intimacy/vulnerability
Too old for a serious relationship with a young woman
Too jaded/spoiled/intelligent for a relationship with an age appropriate woman.

Lots of reasons to have a high notch count.

WIA

[The_e_man]

Team high notch count

[Truth Teller]

(12-07-2014 09:36 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

On high notch counts

Honest to goodness, sex addict
Variety
Seeking validation from women, from men
Filling an internal hole
Chasing that first high
In it for the hunt, not the kill
Don't know anything else
Fear of intimacy/vulnerability
Too old for a serious relationship with a young woman
Too jaded/spoiled/intelligent for a relationship with an age appropriate woman.

Lots of reasons to have a high notch count.

WIA

Right, there are a lot of reasons. My personal belief is that the vast majority of men who try to get a high notch count are trying to make up for something else. Validation is often a huge part of it.

There are men, however, who simply do it for the enjoyment of it. I have nothing against that.

[TravelerKai]

(12-07-2014 08:48 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Cattle first of all, are these 'shitload' of lizards that you met attractive? Secondly, how many of these lizards have you dated?
Of course, I'm not saying all of them are wack but the numbers are increasing and worse of all, it's deemed as normal in society.

I took some food to work the other month. It was goat and rice. Some of the female coworkers came in and said "Ooh, that smells nice, who made it?"
I said that I did.
One of them said "Wow, my daughter's husband does all the cooking, she doesn't cook"
Another of them didn't say anything. I see from her lunch that she is not a cook and she has been married thrice.

I brought a lizard home the other week (no bang). She is a mother but cannot cook. Said she is a burger and fries girl with no shame. Gave her some of my food which she enjoyed and she hinted that she would like to take some of it home.
Since my balls were full of semen (her fault), I pretended to not understand the hint and she left.

I'm not the type to complain etc. I'm in the nicer part of the US regarding lizards but I'm telling you, the Western reptile is not improving, bro. They are getting sloppier and sloppier.

Preach. Your post matches word for word some interactions I have had. I don't know what kind of women CR is chasing, but that is not the case.

I take a lunch to work sometimes and people actually ask if I bought Chinese from some nearby place because the smells is slaying them. I tell them no, my wife cooked that for me. Then they try to get me to share some of it. I deny them on the spot. She makes it like a small bento box for me (her way of telling me I am getting too fat). I ain't sharing shit. They need to learn to cook. Before my wife I used to cook mean Jambalaya with sausage, shrimp, and chicken, cajun stuffed chickens, shrimp fettuccine alfredo, and all kinds of stuff and people would swoon over my meals. Shit isn't that hard. They just too lazy. Either that or they need to find a husband and stay home...

[Grange]

My main sources of game have been Roissy/Heartiste and Roosh/RVF/ROK, not any of the 'professional' outlets. The constant advice to get a good suit, look good in a suit, wear your suit better than the other guys etc is totally baffling to me. 99% of guys I see out wearing suits (when they don't have to or didn't just come from a wedding or something) give off the 'unoriginal simp' vibe and not the 'alpha' vibe.

If you are into suits this advice can help you. If something makes you feel like you're on, you're on. Fine. However it's way less than half of guys who optimize by doing so, even more so among younger guys. I like my girls a little more down home or rock and roll than you find in places like DC where lots of guys wear suits and I get much better results with my normal clothes than my tailored suits.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't ditch the cargo shorts, flip flops, baggy shit, and all that. You need at least a little style. But most guys shouldn't go around looking like Calvin Klein ads either.

EDIT: Imagine if somebody had told a young Mick Jagger to emulate Hugh Hefner, a man who was obviously getting laid about as much as humanly possible. You think Jagger would have banged as many women that way? Of course not. Let Hef be Hef and let Jagger be Jagger.

[Mess O.]

I stumbled on Aaron Sleazy's blog, and I found that he slams Roosh with exceptional ferocity. There's really a lot of venom to be found amongst the entries overall. Any of the more seasoned gentlemen on here know what this dude is all about? And, of course, he's got his own books he's selling.

[Adrenaline]

That using alcohol to improve your game is looked upon as a sin, and you should only be getting the woman drunk. Some men have severe social anxiety that can not be cured by spam approaching until "you don't care anymore". Some men are just better in social settings where they can drink. Anything that can be used to take the edge off and help you come across as more cool and confident should be encouraged even if it is only temporary. Even more so, if you're just looking for a SNL.

Definitely agree with the "looks don't matter" thing as well. Women these days, especially the young ones in that 18-25 bracket that we all want, are shallow as fuck. You could have the tightest game in the world but if you're below average in looks you're still going to have a hard time with quality girls unless you have major recognizable status/fame like Ed Sheeran. Not even money really matters when you first approach a girl, unless it's directly related to your appearance (The way you dress- but once again that is all part of looks) because you can't exactly approach a woman and start bragging about how rich you are. Whether you want to face the truth or not, looks (facial attractiveness, body, height, style, age) are the first thing a person is judged on and if you don't have them, you're going to be facing an uphill battle from the very start.

[DarkTriad]

(12-06-2014 07:00 PM)Excalibur Wrote:  

Let's stop using RSD Tyler as an example of good game. He's a great speaker and great marketer, but he is the single biggest source of bad game advice in the seduction community.

Anyone with above average social skill will recognize his social awkwardness and the weird way he dominates girls. I am not saying all RSD teaching is wrong. They do hit on some good concepts, but Tyler is just a socially awkward guy. Unfortunately young guys with low social intelligence cannot recognize his lack of social calibration. Granted he has gotten better over the years, but please do not model after him or Jeffy or Julien. Todd seem pretty normal and socially in tune though.

Apparently Tyler has 70 lifetime lays/ Not bad until you consider that he goes out 5 times a weeks, approaches about 20-30 girls each night, for the past 10 years. 5 x 20 x 50 weeks x 10 years. That's 50,000 girls that he has approached. Even at 100 notch counts that 1 lay out of 500 approach. Julien does better, much better, but he shouldn't right because Tyler is mentor/master. Julien does better because he is taller and better looking than Tyler therefore he got with more and hotter girls.

The bottom line is RSD produce some good content, but a lot of it is confusing, and their founder Tyler is not really that successful with women. We can all learn from his work ethics, perseverance, but in terms of game advice they produce the highest noise to content ratio than any one out there.

I disagree that Tyler has bad game. He has some of the best game out there....for convincing desperate men to give him their money. And let's not forget his earliest claim to fame in the Game wasn't for picking up women, it was for his mastery of tooling and manipulating other men. He went with what he was good at.

This isn't to say that nothing they say has value, they have had some real insights and helped a lot of people. But the are fundamentally wrong in their basic premise.

[eatthishomie]

There was one PUA I read an article from (I forget who) who said not to work out because working out takes time away from approaching women. The fuck outta here.

Approaching is important but it can't be the only thing you do.

[lush1]

I think its a contradicition that on one hand we recognise that women have no logic and poor judgement yet the commonly held belief is that if we make ourselves better than the next guy then she will choose us over him.

It doesn't work like that because girls are generally dumb and don't know a good thing when they see it.

I think that being in the right place at the right time beats any aspect of game such as looks, being high value etc and that sometimes we don't focus on this enough.

[C-Note]

I've neve been able to get the Cube routine to work for me. Other routines, however, work great for me, especially the question game.

[Mujeriego]

The routine based and spam approaching PUA stuff is a complete joke. Those techniques are just a band aid for what usually amounts to poor social skills.

[Truth Teller]

Probably going to get shit for this, but most Roissy terminology. A lot of it seems like the rationalization hamster. The constant obsession with the alpha-beta dichotomy (which doesn't exist the way most think it does) leads to a lot of questionable advice and decisions.

[RockHard]

I've seen so many chicks point at Manson's "Fuck Yes Or No" essay. I'm convinced he wrote that one for chicks. It's terrible. I've ended up doing well with chicks I really wasn't sure about at first, but I gave them a chance. Yeah, if you're considering marriage, then you should be on Team Fuck Yes. But that ain't game.

The way I see looks vs. game, the important thing to understand is that women are full of shit when they say "looks don't matter". And almost every chick will say that. But that's crap. The fact is, looks DO matter to chicks. What a woman actually is saying is "game matters" - women are admitting in a roundabout way that they'd rather have a less good looking guy who has charisma that a pretty boy with the personality of a brick.

I'm surprised nobody has brought up negs. It's not that the concept isn't useful, it's just that it's not really applicable to most situations. The classic Mystery neg was where you were taking a 9 and trying to disarm her, show her you aren't intimidated by her. In a looser sense, it's just being playful - working the "kid sister" dynamic. Negs are the source of much overgaming and also I think people easily cross the line between "neg" and insult. It's a funny concept and it grabs attention but as a practical skill it's probably one of the least useful out there. I contend that you can be successful at game and never use a neg - I'm not counting banter like "you're such a dork" as a neg here, but the whole "are your nails real?" classic.

I agree that the whole alpha/beta thing is way overdone. Women say all the time that they want a guy who's confident and in this case, you can take it at face value. Women like a guy who's in charge and makes decisions, but how alpha is it to be able to make a decision on a place to get dinner instead of doing the "I don't know, what do you want to eat?" dance? Honestly, for most women the Alpha bar is pretty low.

[Wahawahwah]

This has been mentioned in the thread before but bears repeating - A dogmatic application of all game absolutes.

All women are sluts.
Always be alpha.
Always keep texts short.
Always be teasing.
Always be DHVing.
Always be the person least invested in relationships.
Always let her chase, never do the chasing yourself.
Never buy her flowers or gifts.
Always exhibit Dark Triad traits, caring is a sign of weakness.
Assholes get the girls.
Looks are all the game you need, or conversely, game trumps everything, including looks.

These are useful training wheels for newbies because today's society conditions them to veer dangerously in the opposite direction. But dogmatic adherence to such conditional behaviors is a crutch and at the very minimum blinds one to the subtle nuances of relationships, however long these relationships may exist.An abnormally strict adherence to absolute ideals, game or otherwise, in effect limits one's capabilities and potential for growth.

The game is always changing, people are always changing, ideas are constantly evolving, the entire universe is flux. If there is one idea which one should religiously follow, its to try and rid oneself of thinking in absolutes.