[Truth Teller]

In no particular order:

-Notch count as a metric of how much of a man you are.

-Women are inherently dishonest/evil/etc. (this is more of a manosphere belief)

-Seduction is a battle

-Looks don't matter (you need to stay in shape and wear well-fitting clothing. Good haircuts don't hurt either)

-99% of the biology/psychology stuff is pseudoscience. Mystery didn't understand it, and since he was a huge influence on this stuff, his misunderstandings continue.

-You need to be an "alpha male." The issue with this is that most guys equate alpha with asshole, and the popular material REALLY doesn't help that idea. What you are as a man is determined by your inner values. A "beta male" will let a woman trample his boundaries if it means the possibility of sex. Putting on the "alpha asshole" mask is the same damn thing. It's just a different form of trampling your boundaries.

[Cyr]

I think this is an elegant way of stating what a few other posters have been getting at: (Of course I may be wrong and misconstruing their arguments).

The point of diminishing returns with game, where it may make more sense to work on appearance etc. comes sooner than is often assumed. Basically, once you have basic game (engage the girl in an interesting, or at least non repetitive conversation, have good body language, eye contact, some ability to approach), it is often better to put work into passive game such as gym, style, haircut etc. Of course once you have done your best with this, it makes sense to return to focusing on your game, particularly as this is difficult to max out.
To put it another way, active game (by this I mean what is discussed on the game forum) trumps passive game (lifestyle, weightlifting forum) hands down initially, but once you have above-average game, it might be easier to work on your appearance and status (whilst still working on your game).

[TheFinalEpic]

Quote:

This is not about choosing money over game, game over time in the gym, time in the gym over an education, education over life experience, etc. Its about realising that everything matters and it all leads to making you a well rounded person. This bullshit that "game over everything until you die" is what needs to die. Its an unhealthy, unsustainable mindset and it sells yourself short. Not only that, it pedastalises women to the point that pussy becomes the only focus instead of being the basic commodity it is.

Game is based on certain sets of principles and behaviours. Those behaviours and principles need to be internalised. The best way to do that is to LIVE them. When you live them its natural.

You dont need to be a millionaire. You dont need to be a cover model. You dont need a harvard education. You dont need to reach a set point in your life where you are now some sort of finished product and you can unleash yourself on the world. You are never a finished product, but you need to be working on all aspects of your life so that you improve in all areas that give you an advantage not just with women but with everything. And you cannot neglect other areas of your life because you have been sucked up by a PUA lifestyle where all the guru's are telling you that the only thing that matters is how you apply their theories.

Its all important, because contrary to what crap they are selling you, looks, money, social connections, power...these ALL matter. If they did not matter, you would not be using techniques to create the impression that you already had it!!!!!! If game is more important than all that shit, why the hell are you using techniques to mimic the stuff that is not important in the first place?

And it does not matter if you are 16 or 60. Get yourself into the gym, use your time at work properly and productively, take up sports or find hobbies you enjoy, go back to school, start a sideline business, begin a new career, write a book, compose music. Its never too soon or too late. Focus on all that while you hit on bitches everywhere you can, but stop making women the sole focus and end game of your life, fit them in around everything else you are doing to improve yourself. Find other things to enjoy. When you do that, the women come much more easily because your behaviour is congruent and you are living the principles and behaviours you would otherwise be faking.

-Hooligan Harry

[YoungBlood]

The whole “looks don’t matter” meme is a lie.

Looks do matter, perhaps more than some men will ever care to admit. Guys have to understand that by nature, women are more selective than men (in terms of looks) and this is without a doubt emphasized when young women spread their legs for guys they meet off tinder. I’ve had this experience myself from online dating. I’ve had girls meet me off the app and I can instantly gauge their willingness to fuck, with hardly any game on my part. I’ve tried teaching other men to use the same lines I’ve used but most don’t find any success. If I’m teaching men what to say, (body language aside because this is after all online dating) well then what variable does that leave us with? The look.

Acknowledging the truth that looks matter wouldn’t have been so difficult had it not been for the PUAs who initially spread the blue pill thinking of “looks don’t matter”.
Have a look at the following links for a better understanding of why looks matter:

http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/23/looks-count/

http://therationalmale.com/2012/09/17/size-matters/

http://therationalmale.com/2011/08/23/sc...of-mating/

Getting more scientific:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton...y_sexy.pdf

With all that being said, I don't deny the benefit of game. It is very useful in many situations and is always more beneficial to have it than not. But denying some red pill truths simply because they don't bode well with your current beliefs doesn't do you any good. Eventually, you will have to face the realities of the SMP... or your girl/fling will make sure you do.

[Ensam]

Looks matter a lot for online dating - no doubt about that. Wit and charm can win you over with certain girls but it's going to be an uphill battle.

On the other hand in person attraction is an amalgamation of factors of which looks is just a part. I think that we got the current 'looks don't matter' idea because guys assumed that looks meant raw genetic material. But really looks means a combination of general health, fitness, style, body language and social status. In fact it looks like leadership alone can account for a point or two on a 0-9 scale https://hbr.org/2014/12/being-a-good-lea...attractive. I have a hunch that if you had a group of women rate dudes just based on their picture then had a separate group of women rate them after the dudes had a chance to game them the average rating would go up by at least a point for the guys with good game. I think it's very reasonable for a guy who a girl would rate as a 5 in a picture to go to a 7 or 8 by learning game, attaining some social status and optimizing his fitness. So raw genetic material probably doesn't matter because other factors can raise you up to above average if you work hard enough.

[Excalibur]

Let's stop using RSD Tyler as an example of good game. He's a great speaker and great marketer, but he is the single biggest source of bad game advice in the seduction community.

Anyone with above average social skill will recognize his social awkwardness and the weird way he dominates girls. I am not saying all RSD teaching is wrong. They do hit on some good concepts, but Tyler is just a socially awkward guy. Unfortunately young guys with low social intelligence cannot recognize his lack of social calibration. Granted he has gotten better over the years, but please do not model after him or Jeffy or Julien. Todd seem pretty normal and socially in tune though.

Apparently Tyler has 70 lifetime lays/ Not bad until you consider that he goes out 5 times a weeks, approaches about 20-30 girls each night, for the past 10 years. 5 x 20 x 50 weeks x 10 years. That's 50,000 girls that he has approached. Even at 100 notch counts that 1 lay out of 500 approach. Julien does better, much better, but he shouldn't right because Tyler is mentor/master. Julien does better because he is taller and better looking than Tyler therefore he got with more and hotter girls.

The bottom line is RSD produce some good content, but a lot of it is confusing, and their founder Tyler is not really that successful with women. We can all learn from his work ethics, perseverance, but in terms of game advice they produce the highest noise to content ratio than any one out there.

[Moma]

Round and round we go. Okay looks matter. So go and lock yourself in a basement and cry.
You will never be tall and white and ripped (the alleged ideal look).
By going on about looks, those of you (most of you) who don't fit the ideals, then fall back. Simple. No hope for you.

[speakeasy]

(12-06-2014 07:00 PM)Excalibur Wrote:  

Apparently Tyler has 70 lifetime lays/ Not bad until you consider that he goes out 5 times a weeks, approaches about 20-30 girls each night, for the past 10 years. 5 x 20 x 50 weeks x 10 years. That's 50,000 girls that he has approached. Even at 100 notch counts that 1 lay out of 500 approach. Julien does better, much better, but he shouldn't right because Tyler is mentor/master. Julien does better because he is taller and better looking than Tyler therefore he got with more and hotter girls.

Wow, if those Tyler notch numbers are true, that ends this whole discussion right there. For a guy that goes out and does this shit for a living and teaches other guys to do it, for over a decade now, those are HORRIBLE numbers. I would think a genuine PUA master/teacher would get 1 notch a week at least given how much they go out and their deep understanding of game. That would mean his count should be over a 500 in a decade, at the very minimum.

[The_e_man]

(12-06-2014 07:20 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Round and round we go. Okay looks matter. So go and lock yourself in a basement and cry.
You will never be tall and white and ripped (the alleged ideal look).
By going on about looks, those of you (most of you) who don't fit the ideals, then fall back. Simple. No hope for you.

Why must you talk in such extremes?
You are acting like it's either looks don't matter at all or looks are the only thing that matters. Not a single person on the "looks mater" team are advocating that at all.
All we are saying is looks are indeed a factor and, depending on the girl in question, can be a very powerful factor.

That's all dude, don't know why you need to say passive-aggressive absurdities about is locking ourselves in our basements and crying. That's not what this forums is about.

[TheFinalEpic]

(12-06-2014 11:48 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  

(12-06-2014 07:20 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Round and round we go. Okay looks matter. So go and lock yourself in a basement and cry.
You will never be tall and white and ripped (the alleged ideal look).
By going on about looks, those of you (most of you) who don't fit the ideals, then fall back. Simple. No hope for you.

Why must you talk in such extremes?
You are acting like it's either looks don't matter at all or looks are the only thing that matters. Not a single person on the "looks mater" team are advocating that at all.
All we are saying is looks are indeed a factor and, depending on the girl in question, can be a very powerful factor.

That's all dude, don't know why you need to say passive-aggressive absurdities about is locking ourselves in our basements and crying. That's not what this forums is about.

Looks are a factor just as everything else is a factor. It depends on the girl, but usually the ones that care significantly more about looks, or money, or one of the other 965 factors that make a man a man without taking the sum of the whole into consideration are usually pretty worthless people themselves. You cannot change your height or your facial appearance or the fact that you may be one nationality or the other; but what you can control, you should control to the utmost.

Theres a camp amongst us that with proper style and care (working out, diet, grooming etc.) any man can be a "7" in the eyes of general society. But who gives a fuck? We've also established that a numerical scale is meaningless. Here's what you do: go and meet women, if they don't like you for what kind of man you are (one that focuses on his dreams, helps others, is generally a good person, is of value to mankind, doesn't live in his parents basement) then it's really her loss brother.

[The_e_man]

TheFinalEpic - this is true brother
Well put

[zaqan]

Those who dont want LTR/marriage or kids. There is virtually no point to life if you dont pass on your genes and have someone to care for you in your last years if necessary. There are obviously huge problems with marriage in the US (and maybe elsewhere), but in all honesty those cases are exaggerated. My dad went thru a hell of a divorce and his other kids leaving him, and he was constantly attacked by his first wifes lawyers and arrested a few times, but we never lost our house or became poor. 50% of marriages dont end in divorce. Its more like 20-30%, and a good proportion of those are multiple divorce(e)s like Larry King and whatever a woman equivalent is. I can name a lot of divorced parents, but I cant really name any men whose lives are ruined by divorce courts. Its like the media talking about these cops shooting people. Yea it happens, but its really not that common.

But we need to have children and to impart our values on them. SJWs have 0 or 1 children, so all you really need is 2 to beat them, or 3 if you want to grow your family line. I dont understand how anyone could not want kids. Its like thanks to birth control, we have finally conquered the reason that sex is considered the greatest feeling: if it wasnt that way, humans would focus on other stuff and not do it.

[Kieran]

(12-06-2014 08:06 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-06-2014 07:00 PM)Excalibur Wrote:  

Apparently Tyler has 70 lifetime lays/ Not bad until you consider that he goes out 5 times a weeks, approaches about 20-30 girls each night, for the past 10 years. 5 x 20 x 50 weeks x 10 years. That's 50,000 girls that he has approached. Even at 100 notch counts that 1 lay out of 500 approach. Julien does better, much better, but he shouldn't right because Tyler is mentor/master. Julien does better because he is taller and better looking than Tyler therefore he got with more and hotter girls.

Wow, if those Tyler notch numbers are true, that ends this whole discussion right there. For a guy that goes out and does this shit for a living and teaches other guys to do it, for over a decade now, those are HORRIBLE numbers. I would think a genuine PUA master/teacher would get 1 notch a week at least given how much they go out and their deep understanding of game. That would mean his count should be over a 500 in a decade, at the very minimum.

I agree that considering how long he's been in the game, 70 is not a great number. However, I'd prefer to look on the bright side, in that somebody of his looks and height, being as socially awkward as he was, would probably have struggled to get 3-5 life-time partners if it wasn't for game. With game, he's been able to sleep with women that would have been way out of his reach, and have multiple threesomes, which he could have only dreamed of without it.

[runsonmagic]

(12-06-2014 08:06 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-06-2014 07:00 PM)Excalibur Wrote:  

Apparently Tyler has 70 lifetime lays/ Not bad until you consider that he goes out 5 times a weeks, approaches about 20-30 girls each night, for the past 10 years. 5 x 20 x 50 weeks x 10 years. That's 50,000 girls that he has approached. Even at 100 notch counts that 1 lay out of 500 approach. Julien does better, much better, but he shouldn't right because Tyler is mentor/master. Julien does better because he is taller and better looking than Tyler therefore he got with more and hotter girls.

Wow, if those Tyler notch numbers are true, that ends this whole discussion right there. For a guy that goes out and does this shit for a living and teaches other guys to do it, for over a decade now, those are HORRIBLE numbers. I would think a genuine PUA master/teacher would get 1 notch a week at least given how much they go out and their deep understanding of game. That would mean his count should be over a 500 in a decade, at the very minimum.

NO FUCKING WAY.

I have more lays than Tyler.

Do you have a source for this?

[Excalibur]

I am really not hating on Tyler here. I just cringe when people use him as an example of some super pick up master jedi. I just think what he teaches sounds really, really good in theory, but in practice he just spam approaches and play the numbers game. I saw him in San Diego. Basically he just approach, approach until he's warmed up, and eventually get a girl who is hooked. Then he stares her in the eye and go for the make out and the girl turns away.

70 notches is what one of his interns reveled. Again, I think that is pretty good for any guy. It's just the way he gets them is just through pure effort. 90% of RSD teaching can be summarized in 1 sentences.

Approach, approach until you get into state then escalate on any girl that is hooked.

We all can agree anyone here can get 50-100 notches in 10 years if we go out 4 nights a week and just do that. Obviously quality may vary depending on our fundamentals. RSD does throw out some useful lifestyle, self improvement, motivational pearls here and there. I am not going to deny that.

[Neo]

Emphasis on spam approaching and cold approaching.

A lot of guys don't use their intuition to approach girls who will be receptive to their personality and vibe. It's like doing a direct mail campaign based on random names picked out of the phone book. Too many non prospects in the pool.

I believe this is why a lot of guys get discouraged and are obsessed over the numbers.

This is fine when you're starting out and need the experience...just approach any girl you find attractive. But over time it's easier to niche down using your previous experiences and intuition to girls that you have a higher chance of banging.

Also only approaching random girls and not enough emphasis on social circle or 'familiarity game.'

Example. Recently I banged a barista from a coffee shop I often frequent.

The strategy takess a while to bear fruit. It's like content marketing where you're playing the 'long game' but my effort was minimal. I'd just chat with her for a bit while I was getting my coffee, then get to work. I'd use every interaction as a way to just build more comfort and attraction. I felt it was on so one Saturday night I was working in the coffee shop and after I was meeting some friends to watch the UFC. I just asked her if she wanted to come and she agreed.

My friend did the same thing with a stripper. He stops by some clubs after work. He has a girlfriend but is always on the prowl. He never bought dances from this girl, just built a connection with her when he was at the club. Ended up banging her a few months later.

Trust and familiarity are overlooked in game culture. It's mainly a marketing move because people want instant results and that tends to look more impressive.

[Irish]

(12-06-2014 05:22 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

-Notch count as a metric of how much of a man you are.

Agreed. I don't even think it's all that accurate in measuring the level of game a guy has never mind it being a metric of 'how much of a man you are'. Although if a guy has >100 lays he's definitely doing something right.

But for me the quality of chick a guy generally gets is a much more accurate measure than quantity of lays. I have met guys who have boasted large laycounts only to lose all respect when I see them dragging a fatty out of the club.

[Truth Teller]

(12-07-2014 10:39 AM)Irish Wrote:  

(12-06-2014 05:22 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

-Notch count as a metric of how much of a man you are.

Agreed. I don't even think it's all that accurate in measuring the level of game a guy has never mind it being a metric of 'how much of a man you are'. Although if a guy has >100 lays he's definitely doing something right.

But for me the quality of chick a guy generally gets is a much more accurate measure than quantity of lays. I have met guys who have boasted large laycounts only to lose all respect when I see them dragging a fatty out of the club.

Personally, I have happiness as my metric. My main question is "am I happy?" I know several guys with impressive numbers. With one exception, they're either alcoholics or deeply unhappy.

I once read that a lot of guys who want to fuck 100+ women just want a girlfriend. I've found that to be true.

[Redwood]

Some guys with high notch counts use that metric to fill a void in their life instead of it being a byproduct of their lifestyles.

[Irish]

(12-07-2014 01:09 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

I know several guys with impressive numbers. With one exception, they're either alcoholics or deeply unhappy.

I once read that a lot of guys who want to fuck 100+ women just want a girlfriend. I've found that to be true.

Normally I find guys who have impressive numbers often, tho not always, bang a lot of chicks mainly cos they're just trying to impress their friends. One guy I know in particular will take home some right hogs just for the +1 and the backslapping from his bros the following day. This constant need for peer validation/approval is a clear symptom of some deep underlying unhappiness.

[Cattle Rustler]

Things I don't agree with:

1 - Career women are bad, get a "good" girl who will stay home

Reason: The old times are gone, accept it. Good luck trying to maintain a family on your broke ass 40-80K income! For a single person, that's okay but companies are no longer loyal like before and costs are increasing if you want to send kids to a good school and enjoy a good life. If she's bringing nothing to the table other than "youth", she ain't worth it.

2 - Marry an "innocent" 18-21 year old woman:

Reason: Pure hamster to think a young girl will take you after riding the pussy carousel and that everything will be okay happily ever after.

[Redwood]

(12-07-2014 01:27 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Things I don't agree with:

1 - Career women are bad, get a "good" girl who will stay home

Reason: The old times are gone, accept it. Good luck trying to maintain a family on your broke ass 40-80K income! For a single person, that's okay but companies are no longer loyal like before and costs are increasing if you want to send kids to a good school and enjoy a good life. If she's bringing nothing to the table other than "youth", she ain't worth it.

2 - Marry an "innocent" 18-21 year old woman:

Reason: Pure hamster to think a young girl will take you after riding the pussy carousel and that everything will be okay happily ever after.

That's just pure idealism. Part of game is realizing that nothing is going to stay the same forever. Be malleable.

[Moma]

Regarding notch count, the true playas will usually have a high sex drive. It's also hard to learn how to do something (lay lizards) without actually doing it. The women that some men hit may not reach that actual approved rating (hitting 5's instead of 8s) but sometimes, you gotta work with what you gotta work with.

Taking something home at the end of the night beats going home and wanking..or no?

[Irish]

(12-07-2014 01:57 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Taking something home at the end of the night beats going home and wanking..or no?

Call me weird but I would in all honesty rather go home alone than bring a sub par chick home. Dunno why, but when I bang a below average looking chick I just feel disgusted with myself the next day. Not to mention they can often turn into clingers who can be almost impossible to get rid of.

[Moma]

(12-06-2014 11:48 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  

(12-06-2014 07:20 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Round and round we go. Okay looks matter. So go and lock yourself in a basement and cry.
You will never be tall and white and ripped (the alleged ideal look).
By going on about looks, those of you (most of you) who don't fit the ideals, then fall back. Simple. No hope for you.

Why must you talk in such extremes?
You are acting like it's either looks don't matter at all or looks are the only thing that matters. Not a single person on the "looks mater" team are advocating that at all.
All we are saying is looks are indeed a factor and, depending on the girl in question, can be a very powerful factor.

That's all dude, don't know why you need to say passive-aggressive absurdities about is locking ourselves in our basements and crying. That's not what this forums is about.

As men, we work towards things we can improve. And every year, we have an aggregation of people that start harping on about looks, looks, looks. Everything matters. But the ultimate decider is mindset AND application.

Unless you fit into the bottom tier (a gruesome drooling gargoyle) or the top tier (a ripped adonis who crosses all the ts), you can ignore looks. If you go out with an array of people, you will realise that looks is not the closer. There are too many offers out there for lizards where looks is not going to be enough for you to give up the battle.
I've gone out in several different countries with all sorts of people to know this to be the case.

I've gone out with Asians that I considered having strong game. I've gone out with white guys with what I considered strong game. I've gone out with Indians that I consider having strong game, black guys etc. All those in mention have met the alleged requirements (being over 6 feet tall) and lean.

I saw no instances that got any particular edge where you could say..oh man if only I was so and so tall with square jaw.

The advantage is not significant enough to concern yourself about it. With a decent build, nice fitting clothes, smell good..all men (save for the drooling dwarves) are 7. This gives you a fair shot at everything.

Again, I speak on a wider scale..not for some of you guys that always stay in the same bar in a difficult city like DC or LA. I'm talking for those who travel globally and go out weekly.