[Pride male]

I am no game denialist. There is a lot of helpful material out there that has helped me. Roosh, Mystery, Heartiste, Krauser etc etc.

However, there are some false prophets who peddle bullshit and half truths. Ross Jeffries and his whole NLP is something I dont believe in. Aaron Sleazy believes in looks matter only. I would like to point him to Charles Manson (before the life sentence). Any game ideas you dont accept or date instructors you disagree with?

[Dalaran1991]

"you can get any girl you want"

Biggest bullshit out there that is preached wayyyyy too much by just about any PUA book.

Roosh's method might not be the bible of having sex with girls, but it does something very few products could: it delivers the redpill to you in the barest, rawest form. You wanna bang lots of girls, better put in the work and you can never have ANY girl.

True, with game you can bang girls that you once thought impossible, but that doesn't mean "any". More like, you will bang so many girls that any girl feels the same to you.


Then there's this asshole called Mark Manson. I once digged his stuff, then I found out he is just a hypocrite businessman who is more about selling his products to MEN AND WOMEN than actually giving a shit. He writes a lot of introspective thoughts that draw in a lot of purple pill guys, and his "vulnerability" thing sound very new-agey. Good luck running up front a girl in club displaying your vulnerability "hi I just wanna talk to you". Sure you don't need to be perfect, but as much as girls are concerned you better damn well be a good clown and they don't give a flying fuck about your vulnerable side. Hence all the "keeping frame" thread on here.

He also makes his products gender-neutral now. What the fuck? Of course, that means 2x customer base.

[The_e_man]

Anyone that says looks don't matter AT ALL.
Maybe not to some girls, but they certainly do matter to others.

Or saying NOTHING matters except for game. You can do absolutely anything as long as you have game, nothing else needed.

I find anyone saying extreme statements like that don't actually believe it themselves. They just want to sell e-books to desperately ugly people.

[LINUX]

People saying, "Let me get your opinion on something"

She's known you three seconds and she already sees that you're a man incapable of making logical decisions

[speakeasy]

Looks, height, race, money is a "limiting belief" that doesn't matter, all that matters is your game. Afterall, there's some midget out there that's a dead ringer for Flava Flav that pulls 9s and 10s every weekend like there's no tomorrow.

That marriage is for betas. I think many of the criticism of divorce laws and such is valid, but ultimately it should be a necessary part of family formation and something that should be supported unless you want a bunch of bastard kids running around. Marriage should be seen as a valid and respectable lifestyle option in the manosphere.

The alpha/beta dichotomy is a bit simplistic. These are constructs and not everyone neatly fits in these boxes.

Anyone that advocates acting like an asshole to get women. If that's who you naturally are then so be it. But turning yourself into something you don't want to be nor should strive to be is the ultimate act of putting pussy on a pedestal.

And while this may not be a "game" belief, it's a common thread in the manosphere that women stop being attractive after 30. I don't agree with that. While they may not be at their peak like they were in college, a woman can still be attractive well past 30.

[Libertas]

Feigning disinterest. You certainly should never be needy, but I prefer to be direct in my opening and overall demeanor, and screen for girls that are interested. Saves a lot of time.

Guys that try to downplay the importance your looks. I call them what they are - frauds. I'm not a "lookist" but you definitely need to look good (have low body fat, a bit of muscle, and have good style). Have any of you seen a fat guy with a hottie? I've seen it once all year and that guy looked like he was some kind of Wall Street wizard so he had some quite nice status to make up for that.

Target selection not mattering and blindly "sarging" or spam approaching. You aren't going to have much success doing that.

[RIslander]

I disagree with notches being an indication of good game. In fact, I don't want to sleep with hundreds of women because that is more risk than I am willing to take on. Increased risk of crazies, STD's, pregnancies, etc. I'd rather focus my game on 6-10 high quality notches a year, while concentrating on the re-bangs.

I don't get calling women lizards. Calling their brains hamsters is both hilarious and accurate.

I disagree with marriage and monogamy being beta. The most alpha guy I know married at 23 and has two kids. He's a military officer and he runs a tight ship, even when deployed. His wife is college educated and she chose to be a stay-at-home mom and manages the house while hes away. She was the girl everyone was in love with in college and she never let it go to her head. They've been married 8 years... her and the two kids look at him like hes some sort of god. This obviously is not for everyone (myself included), but it works for some.

[TonySandos]

My chick looks at me that way. I call it the "walk on water effect". If you like to be highly in control, but prefer a relaxed life than this is perfect.

I have to say that Speakeasy laid out all the points I would have named.

[Moto]

Some of the 2005-2009 era stuff led me to think you've gotta be a real chatter box, able to endlessly ramble and improvise conversation so as to avoid any kind of awkward silence.

This is one way, but completely misses the more Clint Eastwood style. You can be a man of few words, but speak powerfully and carry yourself. With just a little powerful input, she will be the chatterbox.

Also, a lot of earlier text-message guides had all kinds of stupid shit like Mehow's "I like salad" text. Even "The Ultimate Guide to Text and Phone Game" is full of stuff that might work okay for the guy who wrote it, but is far too silly to be congruent or effective for a more normal, low-key style gamer.

[WestIndianArchie]

IMO, most game concepts need a fair amount of explanation and context to be truly understood.

And as a general rule, when I read, "you do X, and a girl THINK Y" I question it.

As a corollary to said general rule, when I WRITE, "if you do X, a girl thinks Y" - I hope that I explain the context of when the "rule" works, and when it doesn't.

Things I think that need better explanations
- what your motivation is
- how that mental motivation is expressed in the observable world

Also, I think most gurus/writers/forum dorks such as myself, barely scratch the surface on any given game scenario.

WIA

[Pride male]

The whole idea of micro gaming and over analysis. Is it a shit test? Was that beta? Is she a 6 or a 7? Hell I am guilty of this! Some of the dumbest guys I know get laid because they dont overthink things, I dont know if they think at all about how to get laid, they just folllow the boner.

The reluctance to fuck or even think of fucking 5s and 6s. Like Roosh said not everyone is fucking 8s and above. Fuck the male walk of shame and just do it for the notch.

[draketton]

The idea that having a lucrative career is part of a plan that "makes women come to you" is pure BS. Women only care about that when they're looking to tie down a provider.

The sweet spot is independence without flash. Have your own place, but a mediocre dingy apartment is ideal. Have your own car, but it should be a low to midrange used beater. Have a well-fitting outfit that's calibrated to where you are, but the individual pieces should be made out of cheap fabric.

If a woman sees you as provider material she will see sex as a bargaining chip and withhold it.

[Yatagan]

Not so much a "concept i disagree with" but there's a lot of concepts/suggestions that are discussed in purely theoretical terms in comments sections and blogs that presume women are all equally as socially savy as they're making them out to be. I've dealt with women who were just as oblivious at picking up signs and signals from men as "beta males" are with women.

[Pride male]

^^ You can say that again. Women are not all that socially 'calibrated'. They are generally not good conversationalists.

[gamebreaker32]

Looks dont matter spouted by some puas, agree with most of what roosh says about seduction. Some of the stuff spouted by mark manson, unless there is some natural attraction when you first start interacting. Most pua and seduction is based off evolutionary psychology so I agree with most of it.

[Pride male]

That there is some GREAT HIDDEN SECRET to getting laid that only 2 people know about. Anyone who has watched the video by the badass of Tao knows what I am on about.

[Tactician]

These quotes came to mind:

Quote:

Soon enough, learning becomes unlearning. The stronger chess player is often the one who is less attached to a dogmatic interpretation of the principles. This leads to a whole new layer of principles - those that consist of the exceptions to the initial principles. Of course, the next step is for those counterintuitive signs to become internalized just as the initial movements of the pieces were.

- From The Art of Learning, by Josh Waitzkin.

Quote:

You have to know the rules backwards and forwards before you can learn to break them.

- From some poker book I read a bunch of years ago, but I forget the title. It's pretty popular though...

[Pride male]

I think most guys here disagee with extreme peacocking, like wearing scuba diving gear to the club.

[worldtraveler3]

RSD people were telling everyone that LOOKS DONT MATTER at first, in those pua material they made.

Ya they were quite innovative in coming up with the value theory and philosophy, (there were few companies around at that time), but some were definitely misleading. And also they didnt differentiate between US and other countiries' game, so u would see people in 'traditional' places applying their techniques and appear like crazy to everyone.

[zombiejimmorrison]

Women over 30 aren't attractive. I know some guys who fetish the MILFS and older woman, like this one muscle bound model looking dude who prefers older woman and he's 27

[Pride male]

That ALL beautiful women are difficult to fuck and require special skills to get. Some of them as you know are easy and give minimal shit tests.

[bojangles]

(12-03-2014 05:20 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

The whole idea of micro gaming and over analysis. Is it a shit test? Was that beta? Is she a 6 or a 7? Hell I am guilty of this! Some of the dumbest guys I know get laid because they dont overthink things, I dont know if they think at all about how to get laid, they just folllow the boner.

The reluctance to fuck or even think of fucking 5s and 6s. Like Roosh said not everyone is fucking 8s and above. Fuck the male walk of shame and just do it for the notch.

Yes but to get to that level of being comfortable about acting on your initiative and intuition takes time.

You need to learn those skills before they become natural, that's why you do all that 'micro gaming' and 'over analysis' during your journey. That's natural too, if you don't question what you're doing, how do you learn?

It's all part of the cycle to becoming a player, I feel I do really well myself but I still scrutinise things I do on the odd occasion then realise I can do them better.

'They follow the boner' is basically for 'naturals' or 'attractive men'.

[not-a-pua]

Maybe controversial, but not banging a fatty.
Got me out of a deep whole and she was actually very kind.
And a natural I know tried to bang a fatty while being totally drunk. He was just curious how this would play out.
It's one of the funniest stories I ever heard, because she was so fat, he could not reach her pussy.

[Libertas]

(12-03-2014 05:20 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

The whole idea of micro gaming and over analysis. Is it a shit test? Was that beta? Is she a 6 or a 7? Hell I am guilty of this! Some of the dumbest guys I know get laid because they dont overthink things, I dont know if they think at all about how to get laid, they just folllow the boner.

Yeah pretty much. It's all about frame. I have a somewhat naturally dominant frame (again probably thanks in part to my ENTJ personality, which is a natural leader type), and I only very rarely get shit tested and those are usually light.

If you're an attractive and confident leader, women will follow because they want to follow attractive men. YouSoWould talked about this a while ago. If you keep getting shit tested, you're doing something wrong. Your frame is off.

(12-03-2014 07:50 PM)draketton Wrote:  

The idea that having a lucrative career is part of a plan that "makes women come to you" is pure BS. Women only care about that when they're looking to tie down a provider.

That's not true. Women care about status. Take two guys. One of them's some no-name civil servant and the other is a prominent attorney that hobknobs with the people in power. Who is she going to be more attracted to?

I agree that the focus on careers is somewhat overrated compared to your overall look and masculine demeanor, but it helps a lot. When I tell girls some of the stories I have with my connections they always respond well.

(12-04-2014 06:47 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

That ALL beautiful women are difficult to fuck and require special skills to get. Some of them as you know are easy and give minimal shit tests.

Agreed. Which is why I think the "10 scale" is juvenile mental masturbation. Some of the hottest, bad ass babes I've met have also disproportionately been some of the biggest sweethearts imaginable.

Culture also has to do with it too.

(12-04-2014 07:11 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

You need to learn those skills before they become natural, that's why you do all that 'micro gaming' and 'over analysis' during your journey. That's natural too, if you don't question what you're doing, how do you learn?

I think he means you should be doing that after the interaction, and not during it. Some things will be obvious of course.

[Distant Light]

There is so much but the biggest ones are...
- Chasing (OMG kill me!!)
- Dates/Day2s
- Overall Community Doctrine/Conditioning

I think alot of people get in this TRYING to be something they actually don't even want. Most of the marketing is always "get laid...fuck any girl...looks don't matter" filling this fantasy that every guy WANTS to be some charismatic social connoisseur who bangs out 9s and 10s left and right.

March 2012 I seen single handedly seen how the community was flawed and almost everything derived from a perspective of chasing. I remember lying in bed with the chick PISSED running as if I had woken up and vowed to never chase chicks ever again.

Dates/Day2 are a huge joke...Hanging out with a random chick 1 on 1 is ridiculous IMO...I don't know her, she doesn't know me, why am I spending so much time with tihs chick who I might not even like.

Overall the community doctrine really turns me off promotes a brotherhood-like vibe which when you look at it it's just GUYS meeting MORE GUYS trying to fuck girls. Many lack female friends and go out in groups like every other dude "on the prawl".

This was solidified when I went from 1 year having over 100 community dudes numbers and a dozen or so girls I was "working on". Fast foward, at my peak I had over 150 girls in my phone and maybe 8 community guys along with 45-50 connector types who I enjoyed being around. It was rare I was ever amongst a group where there were more than 3-4 guys, most of the time it was me with girls or me and 1 guy. The vibe was soooooo much more chill, the concept "cold approaching" turned into "dude your just fucking socializing".

Became very social and learnt what I truly wanted....

Back to chasing though, lots of community dudes I feel are acting in a manner where it was clearer have little self-worth or self respect for themselves. Their more willing to find out more about some RANDOM GIRL than themselves and care more about what some RANDOM chick thinks then actually them expressing themselves.

Typical newbie never wants anything to go wrong "in set", whereas in my interactions I'm highly skeptical of every random chick I meet because I know what I'm about if they can't handle me they should move on.

Although I calm down now by simply being less social, I used to be really really testy. It wasn't uncommon for me to "Call out" chicks and assert boundaries whether it was a random or girls I knew and loved.

To paint a picture, one of my earliest experiences, met a random chick on the street. She seemed like fun, I was with a mixed group of 3 girls, 1 guy. 30secs in she comes with me to go with my group to a club...In the club, were chatting and she likes me BUT does the dumbest thing ever saying "You should talk to that girl". I turn noticing some very edgy looking chick and me thinking

"Were having a great time and for whatever reason your fucking up your opportunity...ok"

I literally walk over start making out with the new girl, 2mins later I leave with her. When i thought about it, I could only think how dumb the chick was to be having such a great time (although it all happened super fast) to tell a guy like me "chat that girl". I don't like chicks acting stupid, insecure or indecisive, it's not my issue.

However, most community dudes "stick in set" just for the HOPE and POSSIBILITY of sex occuring. It's like a leech just trying to hang onto their host for their dear life. It's almost as if we (men in the community) act like she's don't like sex.

Anywho, ranting too much haahahahaah...

EDIT

I forget a few truths about most community dudes just due to the overall doctrine of the community concepts...
- Most only have girls in contact who they're banging or "trying to bang"
- Most DO NOT approach mixed groups (this alienates them from any high end clubs or "bottle service" type clubs)
- Most DO NOT do seated sets
- Most are more trolls than actual "cool dudes" which is why people are always worried about their REP
- Most are scared to be in a small college/city/venue because they ASSUME their REP will be bad as if majority of their interactions will be horrible where the woman is appalled.

I've watched instructors and seasoned community dudes in the venues I frequent just hanging on their phone OR searching for the girls who aren't in groups. (So they post up on the bar or when chicks go to bathroom)