[TravelerKai]

(12-05-2014 04:21 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-05-2014 11:48 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Phoenix, Chris from goodlooking loser is six foot plus, with lean muscle. So are you saying that if one is 5'8, chubby ginger with girly hands and average penis (5.45) inches, they should give up on sex because they don't meet the basic requirements?
I was clubbing in Toronto a few years back and I saw this jet black Kenyan guy with thick glasses and an ill fitting jacket move around with this gorgeous white lizard. This guy looked nothing like Chris. How did he pull this off?

Nobody is saying an average or below average guy can never pull a decent chic. But can that Kenyan cat do it consistently? That's the key. We don't know what the backstory is in that scenario. She could've been a social circle girl he'd been chasing for awhile. He could've met her off seeking arrangement, or maybe they were just friends and he was a beta orbiter. I know a dark black dude in L.A. who use to roll with this hot blonde girl. He wasn't banging her, he was just an orbiter. She only liked him as a friend. But if you saw them out you'd probably assume that was his girl.

Not only that, but unlike the videogame Watchdogs, you cannot see what a persons networth in money is hovering over their heads as you walk around people hacking their cellphone. You don't know what kind of money that man may have had. Not all wealthy people dress proper or appear anything like it at all. I once met a man when I was in highschool that was a CEO of a company in the area and he made 35 million a year. His only car was an old Ford Expedition. His clothes were not tailored either.

[Moma]

I find you lot make too many excuses and limit yourselves. A guy gets lizards then you say it's a one off or he is paying his way. Or you might say it 's because of his smile or he eats pussy like a magician. Women are human beings and not these warlords that only like tall white guys. Sometimes, a lizard wants to fcuk because you were in the right place at the right time. If you are charming plus you time it right, you can fcuk. I've seen it happen numerous times and it has also happened to me. I literally walked in a joint, tried to find some black lizards and some blonde from Ottawa who had been eyeing me up for an hour asked me if I wanted to go. Not one to pass up an open layup, I left and fcuked her that night.
My Nigerian friend fcuked one pretty brunette in his friend's car. They (the lizards)were out on a stag night and he was adequately positioned to harvest. He has a noticeable Nigerian accent but does well with lizards. What's your excuse?

[speakeasy]

(12-05-2014 04:58 PM)Moma Wrote:  

I find you lot make too many excuses and limit yourselves. A guy gets lizards then you say it's a one off or he is paying his way. Or you might say it 's because of his smile or he eats pussy like a magician. Women are human beings and not these warlords that only like tall white guys. Sometimes, a lizard wants to fcuk because you were in the right place at the right time. If you are charming plus you time it right, you can fcuk. I've seen it happen numerous times and it has also happened to me. I literally walked in a joint, tried to find some black lizards and some blonde from Ottawa who had been eyeing me up for an hour asked me if I wanted to go. Not one to pass up an open layup, I left and fcuked her that night.
My Nigerian friend fcuked one pretty brunette in his friend's car. They (the lizards)were out on a stag night and he was adequately positioned to harvest. He has a noticeable Nigerian accent but does well with lizards. What's your excuse?

Moma, you're missing my point man. All I'm saying is that if I see a random dude out who is punching above his weight, I can't assume he got her because of game. I don't know if he cold approached her under tough conditions, or they met at work and developed a relationship over a long period of time, or met at church or through mutual friends or what. I just don't know, unless I know them personally. So I can't assume. I also can't assume that this guy is pulling quality with consistency. Everybody gets thrown a bone by fate from time to time. What separates the men from the boys here is consistency. And without knowing how consistently he pulls quality, I can't make any assumptions about a man's game.

I'm just saying that using the argument of "I saw some not so great looking guy with a hot girl, thus it's bullshit that looks matter" is not a convincing argument without knowing the back story of how they met and how consistently that guy can pull quality.

[Moma]

Speakeasy, game is the only thing that you can improve on. The mentality. Don't limit yourself. Are you saying it's impossible for the jet black kenyan to pull top fanny?
If it is possible then what is the reason?

[MidWest]

When the game gets too technical.

For instace I was reading the Mystery Method a while back and it felt almost like a study guide for a test of learning all these things like approach, opinion opener, calibrating, IOI's, rapport, emotional connection, physical connection, intimacy, negging, push-pull, reinforcement, peacocking, 3 second rule, false time constraint, story-telling, AMOGing, cocky/funny, kino, magic tricks/magic cards. All spread out into like 6 different sections.


I like keeping it simple by just approaching either direct or indirect and go off of vibe and good conversation. If her attitude is fucked up or looks uninterested to me or my approach, NEXT!!!

[speakeasy]

(12-05-2014 05:27 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Speakeasy, game is the only thing that you can improve on.

You can improve your looks by getting the right haircut, your teeth fixed and whitened if they are jacked up, putting on some muscle, wearing stylish clothes, etc. Obviously you can't change your genetic looks, but I think most guys can at least bring themselves up to decent with effort.

Quote:

The mentality. Don't limit yourself. Are you saying it's impossible for the jet black kenyan to pull top fanny?
If it is possible then what is the reason?

Of course it's possible. Look at Philochko, he's not Tyson Beckford and he's pulling Slavic girls in some of the most black-unfriendly countries in the world. Not at all saying it's not possible. Why are you getting this impression that I'm saying a jet black guy from African cannot pull women? Or that NO man has ever overcome a looks deficit? I know a short not that great looking guy who consistently punches above his weight. He's kind of like Philochko in that he's very extroverted, charismatic and flirty with women, but still has some pedestalization/beta/blue pill tendencies. I've known a number of guys like this. They may have some degree of natural game without even understanding what game really is in the way an RVFer would. And for them, that's good enough to pull some cute chics with consistency. But having never studied game, they also fall into the trap of being beta-providers and serial oneitis.

Anyway, my original point up at the top is that I don't believe these game gurus who say looks, height and race doesn't matter and only game does. Nobody here is saying game is unimportant. My point is that looks is VERY important. And all other things being equal, I'd rather be a tall, GQ looking guy with average game than short and average looking with good game. The tall, good looking guy will still pull better looking girls more consistently with way less effort.

[Moma]

speak, everything matters but the finished product is game. You would rather be tall and white with blond hair and blue eyes and straight white teeth. I'd rather have the mentality that I can get anything I want. Call it an insane mentality if you may but you will do much better with perspective changes than a physical change.
Once your mindset changes, you will enjoy your life much more.

I always take some of these black Caribbean island guys that I have rolled with in the past as an example. These guys have been bred to have confidence in themselves. Many of them fail your so called GQ checkpoints. Some are dark, with thick chipped nails and feet like slabs of clay. Some have yellowed eyes and an accent so thick, you might as well call it another language.
But tell them that they don't have a chance and you might as well teach them calculus in Japanese. they don't understand and they don't care. The pickup game is a dance to them and you just enjoy the music and keep spitting and things will take care of themselves.

Some guys are concerned about probabilities. Some guys are upset that they have to spit at 19 lizards to get that hot one whereas other guys only need to spit at 5 to get it. But if you enjoy spitting, you don't even care!

Your whole complaint is really about probabilities. You are grumpy because it might take you 19 attempts to score the hot lizard whereas your GQ buddy only needs 7 tries.

The gurus are really teaching mentalities because you can change your mentality, you cannot change your looks. The problem with the West is the mentality of the men, not the looks. Who gets all the top fanny in Russia? Not the Nordic looking guys. The range varies (according to what I hear) from slovenly cats with gaudy chains etc. Who decided this social grading system there? The men and their no bullsh!t mentality.

Why does the West now allow women to make decisions on who is hot or not? Because the mentality of the men has become weak in the arena of female interaction.

Men have always pretty much looked the same. Back in the days, the guy who got the most fanny was the guy who could knock out the most guys. The guy who got to fcuk was not necessarily the guy who was tall with ripped abs. It was the Tank Abbot looking muthafcuka.

I've seen game long before Roosh launched this site and there is a lot of validity to it. Where I grew up, the guys getting a lot of fanny were putting in work. I worked with a guy who resembled a black leprechaun. This guy used to holla at EVERY single lizard that passed his wake. He got turned down beaucoup but he was also fcuking like crazy. He was crazy. So get crazy and all this stats stuff will fall by the roadside.

All this obsessing over looks and height reminds me of this pre fight interview where this guy had this entire fight plan for Tyson because Tyson was shorter and tended to come into his taller opponents instead of utilise the jab etc.
When they asked Mike about this, Mike said that everyone always has this plan until they get punched in the face and then you see who they are. So go ahead and just do what you can.

Shiiit..some of the GQ guys may not even know how to fcuk.

Something else that I've noticed with the black American guys is that you lot often seem to have the wrong mentality when it comes to white lizards. An important thing you need to remember is that white lizards do not judge you by the same standard as their white counterparts when it comes to fcuking.

I personally believe that the darker you are, the easier it is for you. My super dark skinned friends kill it when it comes to pure white lizards.

The same goes for white guys who like black lizards. I knew a white guy from Toronto that had the corniest opening lines ever but the black lizards seemed blown away that he liked them.
He would open EVERY black lizards with "Yo, Jamaica!" and he was fcuking.

So ignore that GQ bullsh!t especially when you are working the interracial game.

[POASTER]

(12-03-2014 03:03 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Looks, height, race, money is a "limiting belief" that doesn't matter, all that matters is your game. Afterall, there's some midget out there that's a dead ringer for Flava Flav that pulls 9s and 10s every weekend like there's no tomorrow.

That marriage is for betas. I think many of the criticism of divorce laws and such is valid, but ultimately it should be a necessary part of family formation and something that should be supported unless you want a bunch of bastard kids running around. Marriage should be seen as a valid and respectable lifestyle option in the manosphere.

The alpha/beta dichotomy is a bit simplistic. These are constructs and not everyone neatly fits in these boxes.

Anyone that advocates acting like an asshole to get women. If that's who you naturally are then so be it. But turning yourself into something you don't want to be nor should strive to be is the ultimate act of putting pussy on a pedestal.

And while this may not be a "game" belief, it's a common thread in the manosphere that women stop being attractive after 30. I don't agree with that. While they may not be at their peak like they were in college, a woman can still be attractive well past 30.

Right on.

Let me just add that these days not only is it easy for 30 year olds to be hotter than 18 year olds but they are much less retarded too. The college kids at present spent their lives in front of a screen and I get headaches trying to talk to them.

Also in addition to absurd alpha/beta labeling of everything, I've noticed a creeping trend of "r-selected" and "k-selected." You guys have got to stop importing animal biology when talking about humans. Yes I know humans are animals, but we are different, we live differently, we think differently, the whole point of creating civilizations was to depart from being like animals. Humans aren't r or k selected.

Evolutionary Psychology in general is BS I think, it's not even based on experiments outside of psychological surveys, and then trying to come up with reasons by imagining caveman scenarios. That's another discussion though.

[El Chinito loco]

(12-05-2014 10:50 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I think people like Chris from goodlookingloser offer a much better, generally-applicable model. Tyler can't hold a candle to Chris in terms of girls and proof, and all Chris does is cold-approach, have a casual chat whilst being physically forward, and then invite her home/to his car etc.

Krauser is arguably much better than GLL because he is an actual average guy who pulls above his looks. His motto younger, tighter, hotter or whatever is a good one to follow. You can see proof of results and his game on full display.

I agree looks matter but when a good looking guy is pulling under or slightly at his level it's not exactly game either. Any good looking guy with average banter can pick up like that. There isn't much to be learned from it. This goes back to the good looking PUA vs average PUA debate though.

For most average guys I think the level you can pull definitely tops out unless you have fame game or something. However you could argue fame and wealth goes into beta provider territory.. girls are value taking from your status.

[the high]

@Moma, well said.

I love this site but one of it's shortcomings is this pervasive mentality that you have to have this ideal look in order to have any real success. My own experiences and the best guys I've personally seen contradict this though.

That's something mainstream media/society constantly promotes. i.e. the only guys who should be approaching are ones who are overwhelmingly pre-selected and everyone else should just settle for the cards they were dealt.

[Phoenix]

I think there are a large number of attractive traits a man can have in addition to looks, but the PUA brigade either don't address them, or don't actually know clearly what they are, and instead rely on hocus-pocus verbal routines, cloaking it in the vague and magic-sounding term: 'game'.

Which brings me to my central gripe:
- The term 'game' is used so broadly and vaguely, that it is almost useless, and is clung to like a soft pillow at night by men who need much clearer guidance.
- Communities like this one need to put an effort into using more specific terms for the components of 'game'. The intermediate terms 'attractiveness, meeting, courting' and their sub-components would be a start.

[the high]

(12-06-2014 12:32 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I think there are a large number of attractive traits a man can have in addition to looks, but the PUA brigade either don't address them, or don't actually know clearly what they are, and instead rely on hocus-pocus verbal routines, cloaking it in the vague and magic-sounding term: 'game'.

Which brings me to my central gripe:
- The term 'game' is used so broadly and vaguely, that it is almost useless, and is clung to like a soft pillow at night by men who need much clearer guidance.
- Communities like this one need to put an effort into using more specific terms for the components of 'game'. The intermediate terms 'attractiveness, meeting, courting' and their sub-components would be a start.

I agree that what constitutes game is often vague and undefined and I've came to the conclusion game is really just social intelligence.

i.e.
The ability to pick up on social cues
Holding frame/not getting dominated socially
being unstifled/not afraid to express oneself
having emotional fortitude
etc.,

[XXL]

(12-06-2014 12:32 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I think there are a large number of attractive traits a man can have in addition to looks, but the PUA brigade either don't address them, or don't actually know clearly what they are, and instead rely on hocus-pocus verbal routines, cloaking it in the vague and magic-sounding term: 'game'.

Which brings me to my central gripe:
- The term 'game' is used so broadly and vaguely, that it is almost useless, and is clung to like a soft pillow at night by men who need much clearer guidance.
- Communities like this one need to put an effort into using more specific terms for the components of 'game'. The intermediate terms 'attractiveness, meeting, courting' and their sub-components would be a start.

It's because pickup community focuses only on the cold approach interaction itself where two or more people with no preset status meet each other. It's "nobody meeting nobody" interaction. That's why they mainly talk about many hocus pocus tips and tricks that help men to stand out, convey personality and create "status" out of thin air. That's what they call pure game.

Lifestyle, money, fame, being fit etc is beyond classic game. Those things helps tremendously cause they turn cold approach into status approach changing the whole context of the interaction so girls respond to you differently based on those factors. But pure game as social/seduction skills was invented by pu community as a set of behavioral rules to follow that should get guys laid. In that sense it's crystal clear term and there's nothing vague about it.

With that in mind, cold approach game and status approach game differs a lot so we can only debate about what concepts we disagree with depending on what type of game we have in mind. Local celebrity guy with some game and six pack may barely ever face LMR while regular guy with some game is likely to face it almost every time. Both guys get girls and both will disagree with different concepts.

[Moma]

XXL, to quote WIA on this, but when you have status, you pretty much play defense as opposed to offense. Playing defense is easier and less harrowing on the psyche than playing offense.

For those who travel and want to enjoy a variety of lizards, it's important to know how to play offense. If you call it social intelligence, I'm okay with that.
If you go to Colombia, your all american high school football champ swag gets reset to zero cos no one knows you there.
Same if you go to Europe, etc. But if you have social intelligence, you can quickly pick up on the social cues and adjust and continue to eat that varied meal you enjoy.

[Distant Light]

(12-05-2014 10:42 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(12-05-2014 10:50 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I think people like Chris from goodlookingloser offer a much better, generally-applicable model. Tyler can't hold a candle to Chris in terms of girls and proof, and all Chris does is cold-approach, have a casual chat whilst being physically forward, and then invite her home/to his car etc.

Krauser is arguably much better than GLL because he is an actual average guy who pulls above his looks. His motto younger, tighter, hotter or whatever is a good one to follow. You can see proof of results and his game on full display.

I agree looks matter but when a good looking guy is pulling under or slightly at his level it's not exactly game either. Any good looking guy with average banter can pick up like that. There isn't much to be learned from it. This goes back to the good looking PUA vs average PUA debate though.

For most average guys I think the level you can pull definitely tops out unless you have fame game or something. However you could argue fame and wealth goes into beta provider territory.. girls are value taking from your status.

I know what your trying to say but I disagree since it's too black and white...

If this were true every male model would be pulling like MAD. One of my social circles ALL THE GUYS were essentially working models with the exception of 1. I remember 1 day hanging out with them and realizing I was the only unfit/skinny dude in the group.

That said, as time went on I realized even within our social circle a few were struggling. One dude in particular was actually staying at my model friend apartment sleeping in her bed...Her remark for never hooking up "he's too clingy". (This guy moved to europe to model more)

Also, in such realms the older guys whether they lead with money or not would not be getting much play. That said, I still do know alot of goodlooking guys who KILL IT some can cold approach others are so horrible outside of the social circles that it is abit shocking.

To me "looks" just complements if you some substance behind it since to her it would "make sense". Probably one of the most famous black male models is one of my boys I used to party with and everyone always looked at him with "intrigue". All he'd have to do is say hi BUT it didn't really mean he'd start slaying. However, when they interact with him they'd realize he's actually pretty cool and fun to hang with.

Quote:

It's because pickup community focuses only on the cold approach interaction itself where two or more people with no preset status meet each other. It's "nobody meeting nobody" interaction. That's why they mainly talk about many hocus pocus tips and tricks that help men to stand out, convey personality and create "status" out of thin air. That's what they call pure game.

^^^This

I remember in the past when I was first on this journey of living a sick lifestyle, I was getting shit ton of flak from community dudes saying "I'm cheating" or saying "take everything away what do you have". However, it's such a stupid question because this is real life why on earth would I purposely NOT have a sick life and just do pure cold approach? To get props from random dudes online?

On top of that, it was built through cold approaching so obviously wouldn't it mean I'd just cold approach and rebuild?

Funny, now years later other famous gurus will talk about shit I've always been saying and fans will reply "loving the direction you guys are going" when clearly 2-3 years ago it was considered irrelevant.

[WestIndianArchie]

As someone weirdly pointed out in this thread (which only proved my point)

- Style was a well known writer and had a Rolodex.. I mean contact list full of celebs. Couldn't get laid for shit.

- Mystery has always been a tall mf'er. Wasn't until he applied his performance skills that he could get the results he wanted.

- Roosh was 6'1" before the game, before he wrote Bang. He wasn't banging until he actively cultivated the skillset necessary to sleep with hot women.

These are things that open and notorious players talk about. I wasn't getting the pussy I want until I learned game.

Looks don't get the job done.
Height doesn't get the job done.
Money certainly doesn't get the job done.
Fame doesn't get the job done.
Social status does not get the job done.

Yet people persist in this idea that you need to be "good looking" in order to get chicks.
That women are as visually driven as men.

It defies logic and reason.

WIA

(12-06-2014 07:44 AM)XXL Wrote:  

(12-06-2014 12:32 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I think there are a large number of attractive traits a man can have in addition to looks, but the PUA brigade either don't address them, or don't actually know clearly what they are, and instead rely on hocus-pocus verbal routines, cloaking it in the vague and magic-sounding term: 'game'.

Which brings me to my central gripe:
- The term 'game' is used so broadly and vaguely, that it is almost useless, and is clung to like a soft pillow at night by men who need much clearer guidance.
- Communities like this one need to put an effort into using more specific terms for the components of 'game'. The intermediate terms 'attractiveness, meeting, courting' and their sub-components would be a start.

It's because pickup community focuses only on the cold approach interaction itself where two or more people with no preset status meet each other. It's "nobody meeting nobody" interaction. That's why they mainly talk about many hocus pocus tips and tricks that help men to stand out, convey personality and create "status" out of thin air. That's what they call pure game.

Lifestyle, money, fame, being fit etc is beyond classic game. Those things helps tremendously cause they turn cold approach into status approach changing the whole context of the interaction so girls respond to you differently based on those factors. But pure game as social/seduction skills was invented by pu community as a set of behavioral rules to follow that should get guys laid. In that sense it's crystal clear term and there's nothing vague about it.

With that in mind, cold approach game and status approach game differs a lot so we can only debate about what concepts we disagree with depending on what type of game we have in mind. Local celebrity guy with some game and six pack may barely ever face LMR while regular guy with some game is likely to face it almost every time. Both guys get girls and both will disagree with different concepts.

[The_e_man]

WIA - you are a forum veteran and I have utmost respect for what you say.
I agree wholeheartedly that game is incredibly important, and that attraction operates on different levels between men and women.

But please, to some birds looks DO get the job done. Being 6'3" WILL get the job done.
I have a good-looking friend who is the archetype "GQ model" constantly alluded to on this forum: tall, white, very handsome, perfect white teeth, slim but muscular frame, comes from money, wears nice clothes, drives a brand-new luxury sports car, etc. etc.
He has ZERO game, is afraid of cold-approaching women and is even more afraid of talking to them after I approach a set and open them up for us.
Yet I have seen with my own two eyes girls swimming upstream against the strongest currents to get with him. They will be forgiving of all his awkwardness and lack of game. They will do all of the work in the interaction.
One thing I will say is this guy still doesn't get a lot of play and he has a notch count much lower than mine, and thats simply because he can't close.

But please dude, don't tell me looks/height don't matter. I know you are saying they don't get the job done, which is partially true. They do carry a lot of weight however, especially within the 16-25 demographic.

[WestIndianArchie]

(12-06-2014 01:19 PM)The_e_man Wrote:  

WIA - you are a forum veteran and I have utmost respect for what you say.
I agree wholeheartedly that game is incredibly important, and that attraction operates on different levels between men and women.

But please, to some birds looks DO get the job done. Being 6'3" WILL get the job done.
I have a good-looking friend who is the archetype "GQ model" constantly alluded to on this forum: tall, white, very handsome, perfect white teeth, slim but muscular frame, comes from money, wears nice clothes, drives a brand-new luxury sports car, etc. etc.
He has ZERO game, is afraid of cold-approaching women and is even more afraid of talking to them after I approach a set and open them up for us.
Yet I have seen with my own two eyes girls swimming upstream against the strongest currents to get with him. They will be forgiving of all his awkwardness and lack of game. They will do all of the work in the interaction.
One thing I will say is this guy still doesn't get a lot of play and he has a notch count much lower than mine, and thats simply because he can't close.

But please dude, don't tell me looks/height don't matter. I know you are saying they don't get the job done, which is partially true. They do carry a lot of weight however, especially within the 16-25 demographic.

By saying this perfect specimen on earth has a lower notch count than you
YOU'RE PROVING MY POINT.

All of his natural gifts mean little if anything.

The average guy sleeps with 6 women his entire life.
He manages to do so without running game.

Sleeping with a chick, having a relationship is not some super human feat that can only be accomplished by the genetically gifted or the guys who spend 10,000 hours learning how to socialize.

A lot of guys that get into the game had sex before learning game. They had girlfriends.
One of the top reasons guys learn game is because they got dumped by a chick.
It's not all "fat losers in their basements playing video games and hating life".

So telling me that cute chicks like this guy really says nothing. It adds nothing to the conversation. It doesn't push any new ideas or new thoughts.

Most importantly, bringing up a Unicorn or a Pegasus when everyone is just a horse camouflages the issue.

It's one of those male hamster points that game denialists like to harp on.

"If this Brad Pitt looking dude learned game, then he'd spontaneously destroy the universe with his charisma and fuck all 3.5 billion women on the planet.

Even if dude had a better notch count that you, what he eats doesn't make you shit.

But To appease the pedantics among you, I will concede

- if you're disfigured/diseased/developmentally disabled - game probably won't over come that. I don't think a super community of game specialists could have a Down Syndrome kid at the club with a bunch of chicks on his dick.

- if you're God's gift to women - you'll probably bang some hot chicks that will do all the work, and you just need to show up.

Who does this apply to?
The bottom 1% of guys?
The top 1% of guys?

So in the vast majority of cases, game is more important than looks, looks don't matter that much.

From a Game/PUA concept (which is what this post is about), this is key.

Nobody promises that you can fuck every chick you come across, or nail any chick you set your sights on - but if you learn what to do, you open a new world of sexual possibility.

Once you see the game for what it is, you see how the concept of game applies well beyond the realm of sleeping with women.

WIA

[The_e_man]

(12-06-2014 01:56 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

- if you're God's gift to women - you'll probably bang some hot chicks that will do all the work, and you just need to show up.

That's all I wanted to hear. I agree with everything you are saying but I would really like for it to be pointed out that good looks and height are in fact a factor, and not a "limiting belief" that doesn't apply at all.
Every time I go out with that guy, I start to feel a bit of game-denialism happening inside me, and I know that isn't good.

I don't by any means want to come across as antagonistic as I again respect what you say immensely and I personally enjoy your contributions to this forum.

[TonySandos]

If you imagine most interactions in life(and possibly how women see things) as if you're a male lion competing and interacting with his environment, it'll all make more sense.

[speakeasy]

(12-06-2014 01:02 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

As someone weirdly pointed out in this thread (which only proved my point)

- Style was a well known writer and had a Rolodex.. I mean contact list full of celebs. Couldn't get laid for shit.

- Mystery has always been a tall mf'er. Wasn't until he applied his performance skills that he could get the results he wanted.

- Roosh was 6'1" before the game, before he wrote Bang. He wasn't banging until he actively cultivated the skillset necessary to sleep with hot women.

These are things that open and notorious players talk about. I wasn't getting the pussy I want until I learned game.

Looks don't get the job done.
Height doesn't get the job done.
Money certainly doesn't get the job done.
Fame doesn't get the job done.
Social status does not get the job done.

Yet people persist in this idea that you need to be "good looking" in order to get chicks.
That women are as visually driven as men.

It defies logic and reason.

WIA

Why do you guys keep insisting that someone is saying you can't get chics unless you are exceptional looking? Nobody in this thread has said that. And if that was the case, then ugly people would've been bred out of existence 10,000 years ago.

Of course looks, height, knowing cool people, etc won't get you shit IF YOU ARE A SOCIAL RETARD! If you have ZERO social skills, then yeah, none of these advantages will be of much help. But you guys are talking about the worse case scenarios. Not having game != being a social retard. Most guys have no idea what the Mystery Method is and still manage to find girlfriends, wives and perpetuate their genes.

Nobody is saying having game is unimportant. But all other things being equal, no way in hell you can tell me that it's better to be an average-looking 5'8" guy with good game than a 6'4" male model with average game. And by AVERAGE I mean just a socially normal guy, not a social retard that can't have a normal conversation about anything but video games. Which guy is going to be able to pull 8s and 9s more consistently? Be honest with yourselves. You know it's the latter.

[Excalibur]

I blame RSD for everything especially Tyler. He just gobbled up and confused a lot of straight forward concept with the goal of marketing or claiming the ideas are invented by RSD.

1 - State - The original PU idea was that there are different emotional states. Generally you start out the night by getting into social, talkative state. As you build rapport with a girl or sense some attraction, you go into a more sexual state. But RSD taut state as the be all end end all, and they use the world "state" indiscriminately. They defined it as just feeling good, an not caring about what other people think of you. Yes, that's important, but just a small aspect of it.

2 - What you say doesn't matter - Again, partially true, but should not be blown out of proportion. It's stupid to tell guys that you can open a girl by saying "I like salad" or "purple rain". Sure you don't want to seek approval from girls, but you do want the girl to be able to relate to you. You can say Goodlookingloser rely on his looks, but if you listen to his conversation with girls, he kind of hover around topics that hot girls can relate to - homecoming queen, modeling gigs, girl friend drama. That's why RSD is so focused on same night pull. They get semi drunk girls giggling then they literally "pull" the girls home for sex. If they wait until next day the girls are like WTF? I have no connection with this guy.

3 - Cold approach teaches you social skills - You can go to clubs and get laid a lot or do day time approaches. But that generally does not translate to social skills with other man, being a leader, or even being good friends with girls. A newbie can do 1000 day time approaches, but 900 of the interactions are "I think you look really nice, I am xxxx", "Oooo, thank you, but I have a boyfriend." He'll probably get laid 2-3 times, and improve his confidence with women, but in terms of improving social skills it's kind of limited. Don't get me wrong, I am totally in favor of cold approach, but selling as the cure all of social woes is totally misguided. You need to improve your social skills independent of cold approach in a "society" - school, work, clubs, social circle.

4 - Don't pick up a hobby for girls, do it because you enjoy it - How many musician join a band because they want to get laid, how many fitness models start working out because he want to attract girls, how many guys want to play football because it makes them popular and attract cheerleaders. All this talk of if you talk about you job/hobby passionately girl will be attracted to you. Blah, blah, I can talk about World of War Craft and get a girl wet. If you work as a software engineer and enjoy hiking in the woods by yourself, wake up, it's time to find a new hobby. I only know 2 natural guys who are really, really good with women. They can both cold approach better than any of the community gurus, but they also have life/hobbies that include hot girls. One guy play in an indie rock band. The other guy is a part time actor, trains MMA, and works are auto shows with all the hot models.

It's a bit of a rant, but it's also for myself to clear the BS from the gems.

[XXL]

As for game concept that I personally see as complete nonsense or stupid...

direct vs indirect, escalation ladder, seeking IOIs, state, high risk game

[TheFinalEpic]

Life is a game, the concept I don't agree with is that "game" is separate from life. If you're going out of your way to meet women, I personally believe that you are looking for validation or some sort of way to create short term "wins". You should build yourself as an all round man, focusing on your body, mind, and your business, and create a life in which there are endless options available to you on a daily basis. I don't even go out (to the bar) anymore because I can't see the point in making one or two or three nights a week my "gaming nights," or sectioning off a time of day to "day game". I go to school, theres hundreds upon hundreds of girls that I can meet. I go to the coffee shop to work on my business or schooling, theres at least a girl an hour. Gym, okay I don't meet girls at the gym, but I could meet them as they walk out of the gym. Girls on the street, girls at events, girls literally fucking everywhere. You needn't make time to meet them, its part of your life.

I checked out of the PUA camp a long time ago, I don't believe in it anymore. What I do believe in is creating a high value life, living that life, and then reaping the rewards of that life. Women notice a man on a mission. They don't give a fuck about some guy that has to meet his quota of phone numbers/bangs for the month, because if he doesn't reach it, he'll feel emasculated.

[WestIndianArchie]

(12-06-2014 02:53 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Nobody is saying having game is unimportant. But all other things being equal, no way in hell you can tell me that it's better to be an average-looking 5'8" guy with good game than a 6'4" male model with average game. And by AVERAGE I mean just a socially normal guy, not a social retard that can't have a normal conversation about anything but video games. Which guy is going to be able to pull 8s and 9s more consistently? Be honest with yourselves. You know it's the latter.

RSD Tyler is 5'8".
I'd put him up against your average 6'4" male model any day of the week.

Cajun is 5'4"? We've seen video evidence of that dude blowing out taller and better looking guys on Keys to the VIP.

In real life, I see short and average looking dudes run awesome game, and regular but good looking guys play the background.

And this has nothing to do with being a social retard.

Average guys have average game.

"Hi'
"hello"
"lemme buy you a drink"
"Who are your friends"
"Come to my bottle service table"

These guys can hold a conversation.
They have moms, sisters, female classmates and co-workers
They've been on dates, they've had sex. they've had girlfriends.
They're not afraid of women.

But the conversations they hold are boring.

"What's your name"
"Where are you from?"
"What do you do?"
"I work at some big corporation."
"I live in a decent part of town"
"What kind of music do you like?"
"No, I don't dance. "

*Let's try and find some commonalities.*

Whatever good will the height or pretty face buys, can soon be lost if the dude does not excite the chick.

To the credit of their ovaries and alcohol, some chicks push past the bullshit.
Whatever #'s these pretty boys do, it's not through their own effort.

This is their "game" This is the norm.

Game is not the norm. If you do any better than the norm, you've basically equalized whatever facial attractiveness, muscles, or height that you compete with.

Pretty boy has her eyes.
Player has her attention.

WIA