[WalterBlack]

(11-19-2014 06:58 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

The problem with demographic predictions (as well as GDP projections) is that they depend too much on drawing a linear progression line based on current variables. Besides being totally wiped out by Mongols, disease, or something no civilization has gone completely extinct from just natural low birth rate. These social variables are much more malleable over the long run.

I don't think these countries will disappear, but they're fucked in the long run because there's going to be a surplus of old people - who's going to take care of them? Where will the tax payments come from to cover them, if there's more older people than younger people?

In China, in extreme cases, because of the 1 child rule and long life spans, you could have 1 individual having to support 2 retired parents and 4 retired grandparents. If you multiply that by a couple of million, how is that affordable for the individual, and/or the government? Similar shit will happen in Korea and Japan.

All of these countries will eventually need cheap labour to help take care old people, nursing, and factory work. There's a shit ton of human capital in South Asian countries and SE Asia.

There will be a lot more shit like this going on in Korea in the future:

Bandhobi: The Most Interesting Korean Movie You’ll See This Year

This film is 5 years old.

Quote:

I’m assuming that that “sexual awakening” involves Min-seo becoming attracted to Karim, and if so it would be quite radical for a Korean movie, as I’m at a loss to think of any portrayals of romantic relationships between Korean women and Western men in Korean cinema, let alone with men from an ‘undesirable’ country like Bangladesh

[Dr. Frasier Crane]

Why black guys choose to go to countries that are obviously and widely known as racist and torture themselves while swimming upstream only to settle for mostly ugly to mediocre women (if they do find a niche) in countries like Thailand, China and South Korea, I'll never understand.

Especially when there's Japan. Not only do Japanese women love black guys, but the general population would have no problems with a black man holding hands with his hot J girlfriend walking around Tokyo. Even older salarymen seem to dig black guys and think they're cool. Nigerians practically own and run Roppongi, and the place is widely known as the part of town where J girls go to get dicked by black guys on the regular. Hell, just look at Japanese porn to see how they feel about black men.

[WalterBlack]

(11-19-2014 07:28 PM)Dr. Frasier Crane Wrote:  

Why black guys choose to go to countries that are obviously and widely known as racist and torture themselves while swimming upstream only to settle for mostly ugly to mediocre women (if they do find a niche) in countries like Thailand, China and South Korea, I'll never understand.

Especially when there's Japan. Not only do Japanese women love black guys, but the general population would have no problems with a black man holding hands with his hot J girlfriend walking around Tokyo. Even older salarymen seem to dig black guys and think they're cool. Nigerians practically own and run Roppongi, and the place is widely known as the part of town where J girls go to get dicked by black guys on the regular. Hell, just look at Japanese porn to see how they feel about black men.

A small niche of Japanese women like black guys - the vast majority prefer Japanese men.

I can't see anybody respecting the Nigerians in Roppongi - most of them are aggressive pricks.

You know porn is not real life, right? There's plenty of female porn stars who take black dick on camera, but how many of them are in relationships with black men?

[Sonsowey]

Japan is handling their demographic "collapse" just fine really. There are few places in the world with better social indicators than Japan.

[Soberane]

(11-19-2014 05:34 AM)Sumanguru Wrote:  

To the tl;dr dude above: if "preserving their culture" was so damn important they wouldn't be hiring WHITE PEOPLE to teach ENGLISH, as whites teaching English has nothing to do with traditional Korean culture.

Quote:

Your own female counterparts are producing half-white babies at a spiraling rate, but you, on the other hand, have been left virtually unchanged amidst the media’s push to promote interracial dating;

http://www.returnofkings.com/36359/an-op...f-the-west

tumblr is full of Asian women denigrating their own Asian men, and worshiping white men, is ironic to see Asian men mad at everyone but their women.

[El Chinito loco]

(11-19-2014 07:14 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

I don't think these countries will disappear, but they're fucked in the long run because there's going to be a surplus of old people - who's going to take care of them? Where will the tax payments come from to cover them, if there's more older people than younger people?

That's a bit presumptious. The entire NE Asian region has gone through more severe population shocks in history when technology and modern health care was not even present. People and society tend to adapt to crisis.

Quote:

In China, in extreme cases, because of the 1 child rule and long life spans, you could have 1 individual having to support 2 retired parents and 4 retired grandparents. If you multiply that by a couple of million, how is that affordable for the individual, and/or the government? Similar shit will happen in Korea and Japan.

All of these countries will eventually need cheap labour to help take care old people, nursing, and factory work. There's a shit ton of human capital in South Asian countries and SE Asia.

You're assuming (once again linear trend problem) that cost and standard of living remains constant and that future labor will always be increased to meet the current standard of living. What will likely happen is that if the population becomes less efficient per person due to the aging population the quality and cost of living also goes down. It doesn't mean that immigration will necessarily increase as a response.

The poverty line will shift and there will be more people below the poverty line. Senior mortality rate will also go up thus evening things out somewhat. Things do tend to balance in unforeseen ways unless it's from war or disease which takes awhile.

If you look closer at actual execution of immigration policies there's very limited immigration in those countries and it's mostly from the NE asian diaspora or SE Asians of ethnic Chinese descent. I know in Singapore it's definitely a case where the ethnic majority (Chinese) give preference to ethnic Chinese immigrants. After the recent rioting of subcontinent workers there's even been some grumbling in the population to scale (non regional) immigration down even further.

Keep in mind that Korea was far more fucked after the Imjin wars but bounced back. I can also name several other historical moments in NE Asia where the population ratio was severely screwed up in various ways.

Quote:

There will be a lot more shit like this going on in Korea in the future:

Bandhobi: The Most Interesting Korean Movie You’ll See This Year

This film is 5 years old.

Interesting film and probably made as an homage to Bollywood romance. However, I wouldn't bet on Korean women in Korea being receptive to Indians (or brown) people today. A single film does not signal broad acceptance.

The truth is Indians are generally not liked throughout asia. I know that's a tough pill but it's just how it is and how it's been for centuries. Vast cultural change in mindset won't be coming down anytime soon in our lifetimes at least.

[WalterBlack]

^^^^
There must be something up with the population given that the some of the governments keep on trying to get people to have more kids.

The film is nothing to do with Bollywood – the guy in it is not even Indian. I know that Indians are not liked through Asia, they’re not too popular in Africa either!

When I stayed in Tokyo I noticed that most of the cleaners were old Japanese women – perhaps that’s what the able bodied elderly will do in the future.

Perceptions of what is considered attractive change throughout time. When the white Europeans and American went to China over 100 years ago, the locals thought they were ugly. Even in the US, nobody gave a fuck about East-Asian women until after WW2. I’m originally from UK, and even to this day, they’re not particularly desired over other women.

There’s wealthy Indians, Chinese, Africans flying all over the world nowadays – perceptions will change over time. There’s Africans and Indians moving to China now:

Love blossoms with Indo-China friendship

Quote:

An Indian diplomat said she had come across "quite a few cases" of Indians marrying Chinese. "But what is interesting is that it is always Indian men marrying Chinese women and not the other way round."

Why? Answered the diplomat: "May be it is because there is hardly any single Indian woman in China!"

The yoga teacher who did not want to be named had a different answer.

"It is a fact that Chinese women are very, very good looking," he said. "They are very athletic, agile and modern. Unlike (Indian) women they don't balloon after marriage. The women here go out of their way to stay fit."

Article about Africans in China

[Dr. Frasier Crane]

(11-19-2014 10:11 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

^^^^
There must be something up with the population given that the some of the governments keep on trying to get people to have more kids.

The film is nothing to do with Bollywood – the guy in it is not even Indian. I know that Indians are not liked through Asia, they’re not too popular in Africa either!

When I stayed in Tokyo I noticed that most of the cleaners were old Japanese women – perhaps that’s what the able bodied elderly will do in the future.

Perceptions of what is considered attractive change throughout time. When the white Europeans and American went to China over 100 years ago, the locals thought they were ugly. Even in the US, nobody gave a fuck about East-Asian women until after WW2. I’m originally from UK, and even to this day, they’re not particularly desired over other women.

There’s wealthy Indians, Chinese, Africans flying all over the world nowadays – perceptions will change over time. There’s Africans and Indians moving to China now:

Love blossoms with Indo-China friendship

Quote:

An Indian diplomat said she had come across "quite a few cases" of Indians marrying Chinese. "But what is interesting is that it is always Indian men marrying Chinese women and not the other way round."

Why? Answered the diplomat: "May be it is because there is hardly any single Indian woman in China!"

The yoga teacher who did not want to be named had a different answer.

"It is a fact that Chinese women are very, very good looking," he said. "They are very athletic, agile and modern. Unlike (Indian) women they don't balloon after marriage. The women here go out of their way to stay fit."

Article about Africans in China

Anybody who has been to China can tell you that it is extremely rare to see that pairing. To put it bluntly, most Asian women find Indians creepy and socially inept. Even black guys do way, way better in Japan than Indians do, because they have style and charisma.

No offense, but I'd probably let go of that dream.

[bluejun]

As an Asian living in the US, some of the most racist people I've met are black people. Black people have done more harms (hate-crime wise) to asians than vice versa in America and I am pretty sure most asians are getting tired of this bullshit. I am pretty sure most Asians people will vouch for that. Asians are generally peaceful people that mind their own business and are most likely productive members of society. It is true, asian people's obsession over white image are rather sickening and disgusting but this is rapidly changing as asian communities grow stronger. More and more asian women are marrying asian men nowadays in America. If you want one of those poor low class asian women that want to move up the social ladder, by all mean, they are all yours. I am sorry but black people robbing and looting all the Korean owned convenient stores back in the Rodney King days didn't help out their image in Korea. Koreans hold a grudge for a long time just as they will never forgive the Japanese.

[Feisbook Control]

Suits knows what's what with English teaching in Asia. The industry is a farce. The very first job I had in Taiwan was with one of the major (perhaps one of the top three or four?) English teaching companies here with a very good reputation. Periodically, we had to give kids listening/speaking tests. The kids knew what the questions were (they were in their books). Immediately before the test, we (me and the Taiwanese co-teacher, who was virtually unintelligible) coached them through each specific answer. During the test, you could see the kids not listening to the actual question, but recalling the correct answer. If I had gone backwards (i.e. 10, 9, 8,...), they would have still given me the same answers (i.e. 1, 2, 3,...). The kids were not allowed to get less than 27/30 on the test. If they looked as though they were going to, I was supposed to heavily prompt them to get the right answers. If they still couldn't get 27/30, I was supposed to just give them 27. That's just one example of many. Consequently, I had students who had been learning English for years who were still at the level of a kid in the first semester. That said, some time after I left that job, I fucked a woman whose English was reasonable and she told me that she had studied at that chain when she was a kid.

After working there, I worked in a number of government school jobs and it was more of the same. The majority of kids in the ninth grade (they start English here in the third grade) couldn't answer basic questions such as "How old are you?" Yet they could get 95-100% on exams involving all sorts of obscure grammatical points such as the passive voice. I could go on and on and on about it all.

For a long time, I used to think that it was an outrage that it was like this and the parents were being ripped off, but the more I began to delve into it, the more I realised that people actually want the dog and pony show. They want that with everything in society. East Asia is all about the dog and pony show. People who don't want the dog and pony show will figure out what's what and pursue that. With English, they'll either teach themselves or they'll get a very good one-on-one teacher.

It is bad that black people get discriminated against. It is bad that other people get discriminated against also (one of my two closest friends here for a long time was a South African of Indian descent, and he was really dark-skinned, so couldn't pass for a white at all). Yet it's a mistake to think that white people necessarily have it good. We are white, dancing monkeys in the main in English teaching. We do have it better than black people, but it's still a circus.

The problem is not so much skin colour, or even the industry, but the society. The average Taiwanese person gets completely screwed by his superiors also. They put up with an enormous amount of bullshit. I have seen this with colleagues, and I hear it about my wife's siblings. I have no doubt that this is also true in Korea. Of course, the average Taiwanese employee is also pretty useless, and I would say that this is true of the average Westerner in EFL also. EFL is like working at K-Mart of McDonald's. It pays slightly better, but it's essentially unskilled labour, and unskilled labour always gets screwed because it has nothing to leverage. Yeah, it sucks to be poorly treated. So why work such a job unless you absolutely have to?

The solution, to my mind, is to work for yourself, which is what I now do (one of my two businesses is a small language school), but then, that's true pretty much anywhere in the world. If you want to free yourself from someone else's agenda and the bullshit that goes with it and be able to showcase your talents, then you have to be your own boss. People come to me and then complain that I charge a lot of money and go away. Good, go away, I don't want you. I'm not the McDonald's of English teaching, and frankly, I don't want those kinds of customers anyway. They are the kinds of people who don't make any effort to understand what I am trying to do, and would gladly put their kids in a class with thirty other kids where no one learns a damn thing (But it's cheap, so I can go and waste the money I saved on deep-fried shit at the night market! Have you tried Taiwan's famous foods?), and would create all sorts of other nonsense over trivial things. I don't make as much money as some other people (though I don't need to because I have other sources of income), but I'm incredibly happy doing what I do, and I do it entirely on my own terms. Furthermore, my students learn more.

Suits: I hear you. Most of what constitutes English language teaching is nonsense, and it's amazing how unwilling so much of the industry all around the world is to address its dismal results. That said, perhaps you should look into TPRS. Youtube videos might make more sense. I've been doing TPRS for about three years now and it is highly effective. It sounds like you're sort of on the same wavelength as Stephen Krashen. I don't know whether you've read him or not, but it might be worth checking him out if you haven't. Another thing to look into (I've only seen it on Youtube and don't have personal experience with it) is Automatic Language Growth, which, like TPRS, is Krashen inspired.

(11-19-2014 05:34 PM)tylerdurden1993 Wrote:  

Reading this thread makes me think i'm stupid for planning to teach english in korea early next year. However the money and free apartment etc. make it an attractive situation for me as i'm a recent graduate who's never taught a day in his life.

You just have to know what you're getting into and why. There is an enormous amount of BS in English teaching in Asia, but if you're aware of it going in and don't take it any more seriously than absolutely necessary, you should be okay. If you end up here for the long term, I would suggest you get out of the industry or eventually work for yourself (whether as a private tutor or actually setting up your own school). If you only want to come here for the short term then it is very important to also have a purpose. That could be paying off student loans or saving money for something else. It could be learning a language. It could be using one country as a base to explore other countries. It could be fucking exotic women. It could be all or none of the above. The point is though to have an objective in coming here (though to be flexible and open to new opportunities). The industry is full of aimless young people and dysfunctional older people, and that feeds into what is often a very negative perception of English teachers here (and for good reason, I believe). Then, a lot of those Westerners end up complaining about how much it sucks in Korea/Japan/Taiwan/China/Thailand. Of course it sucks, but it also sucks for your average McDonald's worker in the West for largely the same reasons. The bullshit is different, but there's still bullshit anywhere, and the unambitious bring a huge amount of that upon themselves by their lack of ambition.

[Saga]

(11-19-2014 09:41 AM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  

Korean rules are Korean rules, it's a foreign country. Take it or leave it.
^^^^
Just imagine if the American Indian took that stance back in 1492

That's exactly the stance that Indians took when they encountered Europeans...unfortunately for them, they lost almost every conflict (the Zapotecs, Guna, Comanche and Puelba are the only tribes that can boast of lasting victories over Europeans/settlers that I know of) that followed, partially because of the massive difference in technological capacity but also because of chronic disunity. Indian rules were Indian rules, but they failed to enforce them adequately.

Ironically, the ugliest episodes in this history occurred when governments and armies felt that Indian rules weren't good enough for Indian communities, and that western morality and lifestyles had to be imposed upon the "savages" by force. If they had taken a "your land, your rules" mentality, indigenous groups from Alaska to Argentina would have been immensely better off.

Cultural relativism within a single political unit is a pretty bad idea, but between political units it's a good thing. In fact, it's the basis of the idea of national sovereignty, and has been since 1648.

[VincentVinturi]

Quote:

No, because I am giving nothing in exchange to Donald Trump for this $10MM dollars. The reason people are so sensitive to job discrimination is because everyone needs to work to survive. Having a job is surviving. Your money has to come from somewhere. Either it's going to come from working for it, or it's going to come from the government in welfare. Which means someone else is working for it. So the point of non-discrimination clauses is to make it as easy for people as possible to survive and make sure they aren't being barred from making a living and surviving on account of factors that don't matter and are out of their control.

You're still fundamentally making the point that because people need jobs to survive, they're owed those jobs.

How could you possibly divine why somebody rejected you for a job unless they straight up told you?

Answer: you can't.

This anti-discrimination not only doesn't prevent discrimination, it makes it worse.

It creates ill will between minorities and business owners with a constant air of suspicion.

It opens businesses up to frivolous lawsuits from overly sensitive women and minorities, who, on the basis of their subjective feelings, sue job creators because they think they felt a discriminatory vibe from the business owner/hiring manager.

It's an unenforceable set of laws.

The laws' only ostensible accomplishments are A) legally extorting money from businesses for the direct benefit of the plaintiff and attorney and B) vindicating people who think business owners deserve to be parted with their money, forget the fact that without them there would be no jobs to bitch about.

Quote:

Okay so no discrimination is off the table for private businesses?

That's right.

Your business, your rules.

If somebody doesn't like it, let them try starting a business, because it's soooo easy.

Quote:

So if a bunch of HR SJWs took over fortune 500 countries and decided to fire large numbers of men and replace them with women as a form of affirmative action and fighting patriarchy, you'd be perfectly fine with that? I'm assuming we wouldn't hear a peep from you on this issue.

You're mixing issues.

Private businesses can hire whom they want.

Affirmative action forces business to hire people they don't want.

It's basically the government saying, 'you're going to pay these people, and if you got a problem with that, we can fuck your business up real nice.'

It's basic mafia tactics.

Quote:

Sure, a couple, but they are outliers.

And so, because black libertarians are a minority who don't subscribe to the typical entitlement, victimhood mentality of far too many American blacks, they should be written off?

Perhaps they're on to something...

Quote:

Here's the difference. If Google doesn't have exactly 12% black programmers, that alone doesn't mean they are practicing discrimination. It simply could be that such persons are in short supply. They should not be forced to mechanically balance their workforce according the population demographics. However, if Google had a proven policy of barring black programmers from employment no matter how qualified, then that's racial discrimination. Don't you see the difference?

Proven how? You think Google is going to issue a Press Release saying "we don't hire blacks"?

There's no way to prove such a thing objectively unless, again, somebody is stupid enough to just say it outright.

Consequently, the only way to make a case against the employer in these situations is based on hearsay, and subjective reports.

If enough people come forward against a business saying it hires in a discriminatory fashion, and you get a SJW judge and an aggressive lawyer, guess what, that business is going to be paying through the nose.

It's a game of he said, she said played for money by SJWs and attorneys.

And despite any lack of objective evidence, the business will be forced to empty its pockets.

Quote:

Racial discrimination is hard to enforce and prosecute. Sometimes someone will get secretly caught on tape admitting racist practices in hiring and then a case is filed. I think Abercrombie and Fitch got into trouble a few years back in putting whites in visible positions in the store and putting minorities only in the stockroom or refusing to hire them outright. I understand racial discrimination in some circumstances such as an Italian restaurant that only hires Italians. However discrimination in a mainstream clothing store is a totally different matter.

That's no different at all.

If I owned a clothing store and my target demographic was yuppy white kids, I'd be hiring yuppy white kids to work there.

I wouldn't be hiring minorities because that would alienate my customers and confuse my branding.

Doesn't mean I hate Hispanics and Chinese and whoever else.

No, I'm doing business as I see fit, to the end of making the biggest possible profit.

That's the point of business.

Business owners know what they're doing and why.

When you force them to pay for shit they don't want or need to correct perceived injustices, their businesses suffer.

Which means the job market suffers.

Quote:

They can't force you to hire any particular individual. But if the person that you discriminated against can prove that you turned him away because of his race and has the evidence to prove it(somehow) you can be sued or have to pay a fine. You may feel that's a violation of your rights, but keep in mind there are historical reasons this is the case. If whites had not practiced the most vile discrimination against blacks at every level in the past, none of this legislation would've ever seen the light of day. It's the same thing with gays. The reason they are so radicalized is because we fucked with them so much in the past, now we've gone overboard in the opposite direction. Whereas in Thailand, gays have never been treated that bad and thus you don't have gays marching and demanding all these rights there. These things don't happen in a vacuum. History shapes why things are the way they are now.

So because it's the law, and because the law exists as a result of a bunch of shit in the past that none of us had anything to do with, business owners should be subject to frivolous lawsuits on the basis of discrimination proved "somehow"...?

Let me be clear about something before I offer my next point - I've hired people of many different races in my business, including Kenyan, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Pinoy, American, Romanian and many others. I hire based on who does great work, period. And I've hired men and women.

But, if I decide tomorrow that I don't want to hire Indians anymore, just because I don't want to, you're saying I should be subject to litigation, fines and penalties?

If I don't want to hire Indians, I don't want to hire Indians. If you're an Indian and I don't want you in my business, you can go find work in a million other places. And if you happen to be talented and I reject you on the basis of being Indian, then my competitor will have you as an employee and my business will suffer.

So I hear what you're saying. But what I'm saying is if you want the result that people are hired based on competence rather than race, then forcing business to pay fines and undergo lawsuits isn't the way to bring it about.

Quote:

And if you chose not to sue, that's your right not to do so. But the law is the law and if someone bans you from employment only because you're a Jew, that is illegal. You are of course allowed to not hire someone you don't like, and there are a million reasons why you might not like someone and may not want to work for them. But because of the history of racial discrimination in this country for 4 centuries, the Supreme Court decided that it's illegal to bar people from employment due to race. That's not going to change. If that angers you, then you should be angry at all the whites who supported Jim Crow and banned blacks from voting, property ownership, buses, education, etc who made such legislation necessary just for blacks to survive.

I'm not angry about anything.

My business is registered in Hong Kong and I can hire whomever I want, and not hire whomever I want.

Black friends I have here in Thailand (from Africa, Switzerland, France, etc.) all marvel at the way American blacks behave and think.

Now I don't know you Speakeasy, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anything bad about you personally.

But you have to admit that black America has an incredibly entitled attitude, much like American women.

And it probably hurts blacks way more than the superficial help it gives them.

Quote:

You don't, but why the hell would you want to dislike everyone that isn't like you? Wouldn't you rather be surrounded by friends rather than enemies?

Doesn't matter why.

I want to like who I like and dislike who I dislike.

For no reason at all.

Quote:

Business people are told what to do in a million different ways already. I'm sure you've heard of regulations and zoning, and environmental restrictions, and noise restrictions and child labor laws, and overtime pay laws, etc etc. There are parameters set for all business activity. Part of Obama's first term agenda was regulating the financial industry. Where do you get this idea that businesses can just do whatever the hell they want.

You're right, and I don't approve of the endless red tape and regulations and fines that businesses are subject to.

It just creates a ton of friction to the actual process of creating value and jobs in the country.

Businesses shouldn't be free to dump tons of toxic waste in the local river, for instance, but other than the kinds of things that could harm others, businesses should be left the hell alone to do their thing.

Anybody who has tried to start a business will tell you that it's ridiculously hard creating something of value, creating jobs, meeting a payroll, etc., without having the government in your pocket and your case all the time.

[Suits]

^^^Given my background embracing progressive viewpoints, I hate to admit it, but I see no logical fallacies in VV's arguments.

I'm hardly a libertarian, but given that discrimination is virtually impossible to prove (when prohibited by law), I think that there is progressive thinking that would probably solve social ills more efficiently than leaning on business owners.

[Libertas]

Regarding anti-discrimination laws, I'm about to get my real estate sales license and I had to learn a lot about this. They are so ridiculous and overzealous that I, as a real estate professional, am not even allowed to answer some of my own clients' questions regarding the people that live in a neighborhood. If they even outright say that they want to live in a neighborhood with people of their own ethnic group, I am not allowed to follow their own instructions.

Somehow the government thinks that to stop discrimination you need to hang a huge poster with the equal housing opportunity logo in your office and put it on all your advertising (thus losing valuable advertising space). Yes, they think a logo is somehow going to stop people from discriminating.

I can agree in spirit with these laws. No one should be treated unfairly for something they can't control, but the way in which they're executed leads to many absurdities that assault liberty. If I'm not allowed to deliver what my own clients want to them, something's gone awry.

[Advent Persona]

(11-19-2014 07:32 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 07:28 PM)Dr. Frasier Crane Wrote:  

Why black guys choose to go to countries that are obviously and widely known as racist and torture themselves while swimming upstream only to settle for mostly ugly to mediocre women (if they do find a niche) in countries like Thailand, China and South Korea, I'll never understand.

Especially when there's Japan. Not only do Japanese women love black guys, but the general population would have no problems with a black man holding hands with his hot J girlfriend walking around Tokyo. Even older salarymen seem to dig black guys and think they're cool. Nigerians practically own and run Roppongi, and the place is widely known as the part of town where J girls go to get dicked by black guys on the regular. Hell, just look at Japanese porn to see how they feel about black men.

A small niche of Japanese women like black guys - the vast majority prefer Japanese men.

I can't see anybody respecting the Nigerians in Roppongi - most of them are aggressive pricks.

You know porn is not real life, right? There's plenty of female porn stars who take black dick on camera, but how many of them are in relationships with black men?

Just throwing this out there, most Japanese women are indifferent to black men. They have absolutely no problem being seen in a relationship with a black man. There is a small percentage that LOVE brothas. As a black man, if you know Japanese to an advanced level, know and respect the culture, and carry yourself well, you WILL do VERY well in Japan. No doubt, Japan is the best deal in the whole of Asia for brothers.

[WalterBlack]

(11-19-2014 10:36 PM)Dr. Frasier Crane Wrote:  

No offense, but I'd probably let go of that dream.

It's not my dream, dude!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Koreans are probably the worst English speakers in the whole of Asia. Japanese are pretty bad too.

I went to grad school in LA. The only time I ever heard the people from Korea speak in English was when they had to work with non-Koreans or do presentations.

I’ve met people from all over the world, and the Koreans (from Korea) that I’ve come across are the most unfriendly people I’ve ever met. At least the Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, or Indians at my grad school would give me the time of day. The Koreans stuck together and didn’t socialise with anybody who wasn’t Korean at all. They didn’t even associate with Korean Americans.

How serious are Koreans about learning English, or are they just ticking boxes?

Regarding the hiring thing – I’m of an Indian background (UK born and raised), but if I had my own company, I would refuse to hire people fresh from India – does that make me racist? I’ve been training a team in India do a simple task in SAP. I trained an America colleague, it took an hour and she’s fine with it. I’ve been trying to train the guys in India for almost six months now, and they still haven’t figured it out.

[speakeasy]

(11-20-2014 06:51 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Quote:

No, because I am giving nothing in exchange to Donald Trump for this $10MM dollars. The reason people are so sensitive to job discrimination is because everyone needs to work to survive. Having a job is surviving. Your money has to come from somewhere. Either it's going to come from working for it, or it's going to come from the government in welfare. Which means someone else is working for it. So the point of non-discrimination clauses is to make it as easy for people as possible to survive and make sure they aren't being barred from making a living and surviving on account of factors that don't matter and are out of their control.

You're still fundamentally making the point that because people need jobs to survive, they're owed those jobs.

How could you possibly divine why somebody rejected you for a job unless they straight up told you?

Answer: you can't.

This anti-discrimination not only doesn't prevent discrimination, it makes it worse.

It creates ill will between minorities and business owners with a constant air of suspicion.

It opens businesses up to frivolous lawsuits from overly sensitive women and minorities, who, on the basis of their subjective feelings, sue job creators because they think they felt a discriminatory vibe from the business owner/hiring manager.

It's an unenforceable set of laws.

The laws' only ostensible accomplishments are A) legally extorting money from businesses for the direct benefit of the plaintiff and attorney and B) vindicating people who think business owners deserve to be parted with their money, forget the fact that without them there would be no jobs to bitch about.

Quote:

Okay so no discrimination is off the table for private businesses?

That's right.

Your business, your rules.

If somebody doesn't like it, let them try starting a business, because it's soooo easy.

Quote:

So if a bunch of HR SJWs took over fortune 500 countries and decided to fire large numbers of men and replace them with women as a form of affirmative action and fighting patriarchy, you'd be perfectly fine with that? I'm assuming we wouldn't hear a peep from you on this issue.

You're mixing issues.

Private businesses can hire whom they want.

Affirmative action forces business to hire people they don't want.

It's basically the government saying, 'you're going to pay these people, and if you got a problem with that, we can fuck your business up real nice.'

It's basic mafia tactics.

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Sure, a couple, but they are outliers.

And so, because black libertarians are a minority who don't subscribe to the typical entitlement, victimhood mentality of far too many American blacks, they should be written off?

Perhaps they're on to something...

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Here's the difference. If Google doesn't have exactly 12% black programmers, that alone doesn't mean they are practicing discrimination. It simply could be that such persons are in short supply. They should not be forced to mechanically balance their workforce according the population demographics. However, if Google had a proven policy of barring black programmers from employment no matter how qualified, then that's racial discrimination. Don't you see the difference?

Proven how? You think Google is going to issue a Press Release saying "we don't hire blacks"?

There's no way to prove such a thing objectively unless, again, somebody is stupid enough to just say it outright.

Consequently, the only way to make a case against the employer in these situations is based on hearsay, and subjective reports.

If enough people come forward against a business saying it hires in a discriminatory fashion, and you get a SJW judge and an aggressive lawyer, guess what, that business is going to be paying through the nose.

It's a game of he said, she said played for money by SJWs and attorneys.

And despite any lack of objective evidence, the business will be forced to empty its pockets.

Quote:

Racial discrimination is hard to enforce and prosecute. Sometimes someone will get secretly caught on tape admitting racist practices in hiring and then a case is filed. I think Abercrombie and Fitch got into trouble a few years back in putting whites in visible positions in the store and putting minorities only in the stockroom or refusing to hire them outright. I understand racial discrimination in some circumstances such as an Italian restaurant that only hires Italians. However discrimination in a mainstream clothing store is a totally different matter.

That's no different at all.

If I owned a clothing store and my target demographic was yuppy white kids, I'd be hiring yuppy white kids to work there.

I wouldn't be hiring minorities because that would alienate my customers and confuse my branding.

Doesn't mean I hate Hispanics and Chinese and whoever else.

No, I'm doing business as I see fit, to the end of making the biggest possible profit.

That's the point of business.

Business owners know what they're doing and why.

When you force them to pay for shit they don't want or need to correct perceived injustices, their businesses suffer.

Which means the job market suffers.

Quote:

They can't force you to hire any particular individual. But if the person that you discriminated against can prove that you turned him away because of his race and has the evidence to prove it(somehow) you can be sued or have to pay a fine. You may feel that's a violation of your rights, but keep in mind there are historical reasons this is the case. If whites had not practiced the most vile discrimination against blacks at every level in the past, none of this legislation would've ever seen the light of day. It's the same thing with gays. The reason they are so radicalized is because we fucked with them so much in the past, now we've gone overboard in the opposite direction. Whereas in Thailand, gays have never been treated that bad and thus you don't have gays marching and demanding all these rights there. These things don't happen in a vacuum. History shapes why things are the way they are now.

So because it's the law, and because the law exists as a result of a bunch of shit in the past that none of us had anything to do with, business owners should be subject to frivolous lawsuits on the basis of discrimination proved "somehow"...?

Let me be clear about something before I offer my next point - I've hired people of many different races in my business, including Kenyan, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Pinoy, American, Romanian and many others. I hire based on who does great work, period. And I've hired men and women.

But, if I decide tomorrow that I don't want to hire Indians anymore, just because I don't want to, you're saying I should be subject to litigation, fines and penalties?

If I don't want to hire Indians, I don't want to hire Indians. If you're an Indian and I don't want you in my business, you can go find work in a million other places. And if you happen to be talented and I reject you on the basis of being Indian, then my competitor will have you as an employee and my business will suffer.

So I hear what you're saying. But what I'm saying is if you want the result that people are hired based on competence rather than race, then forcing business to pay fines and undergo lawsuits isn't the way to bring it about.

Quote:

And if you chose not to sue, that's your right not to do so. But the law is the law and if someone bans you from employment only because you're a Jew, that is illegal. You are of course allowed to not hire someone you don't like, and there are a million reasons why you might not like someone and may not want to work for them. But because of the history of racial discrimination in this country for 4 centuries, the Supreme Court decided that it's illegal to bar people from employment due to race. That's not going to change. If that angers you, then you should be angry at all the whites who supported Jim Crow and banned blacks from voting, property ownership, buses, education, etc who made such legislation necessary just for blacks to survive.

I'm not angry about anything.

My business is registered in Hong Kong and I can hire whomever I want, and not hire whomever I want.

Black friends I have here in Thailand (from Africa, Switzerland, France, etc.) all marvel at the way American blacks behave and think.

Now I don't know you Speakeasy, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anything bad about you personally.

But you have to admit that black America has an incredibly entitled attitude, much like American women.

And it probably hurts blacks way more than the superficial help it gives them.

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You don't, but why the hell would you want to dislike everyone that isn't like you? Wouldn't you rather be surrounded by friends rather than enemies?

Doesn't matter why.

I want to like who I like and dislike who I dislike.

For no reason at all.

Quote:

Business people are told what to do in a million different ways already. I'm sure you've heard of regulations and zoning, and environmental restrictions, and noise restrictions and child labor laws, and overtime pay laws, etc etc. There are parameters set for all business activity. Part of Obama's first term agenda was regulating the financial industry. Where do you get this idea that businesses can just do whatever the hell they want.

You're right, and I don't approve of the endless red tape and regulations and fines that businesses are subject to.

It just creates a ton of friction to the actual process of creating value and jobs in the country.

Businesses shouldn't be free to dump tons of toxic waste in the local river, for instance, but other than the kinds of things that could harm others, businesses should be left the hell alone to do their thing.

Anybody who has tried to start a business will tell you that it's ridiculously hard creating something of value, creating jobs, meeting a payroll, etc., without having the government in your pocket and your case all the time.

I think we've reached an impasse here and at this point we're just going in circles. We have a different philosophy and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

But on one point where you said: "Affirmative action forces business to hire people they don't want." That's not the case. You don't know how affirmative action works. Affirmative action is not forced on private businesses by the government. When a private business does practice affirmative action it's voluntary. Some high profile fortune 500 companies that want good PR with their consumer base will advertise that they actively recruit a diverse workforce. And even then, nobody is forced to mechanically balance their staff to be inline with the population's demographics. It may mean things like outreach for under-represented groups and such. But this isn't imposed by the government.

Government jobs are another story. They have more power to regulate hiring of staff by ethnicity. So for example, traditionally white jobs like firefighters in Boston or NYC may be forced to start hiring more minorities, especially when the city itself is very diverse. After the LA Riots, the LAPD sought to start recruiting more non-white police officers. If there are contracts to be awarded to private companies, they may have clauses that require that a certain amount of those contracts be to minority-owned businesses.

But in private business, nobody is forcing you to have a diverse staff, otherwise the NBA would've been out of business long ago. However if it's proven that you are actively discriminating against people due to their race, then the EEOC can fine you.

I know as a libertarian you put your full faith in the free market to work everything out. Well I don't. The free market had us as chattel slaves and kids working 16 hour days in Cambodia. Fuck the free market as a way of regulating what's right and wrong.

[Fortis]

Shame that it's that way in Korean. That said, he should have known. I mean, I was thinking about teaching English in Korean, until I did some reading. I also spoke to a friend of mine (a fellow black man) and he was very emphatic about how racist they are in Korea. He said it reminded him of 1950's America.

[etshella]

(11-19-2014 04:15 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

At the Atatürk airport in Istanbul, everyone arriving must go through a visa purchase checkpoint where you pay $20 or so for a 30 day pass in the country. I remember this 50 year guy, clearly American, a few feet in front of me, bitching about how they should accept credit cards and how there's no sign saying that they don't accept credit cards. He demanded to speak with the "manager" (as if visa processing is a McDonalds), while holding everyone else up for about 30 minutes. I remember hearing people mumble to themselves about how stupid Americans are in at least 3 languages.

Another time, at a restaurant in Andalusia (beautiful part of Spain) a fat, obnoxious American family demanded a refund because their hash browns weren't American-style hashbrowns. Again, the locals talked shit and it hurt our reputation.

Moral of the story is this: Americans, especially minorities, have no right to bitch and moan about the cultural practices of other countries. It's not America, and no one is under any obligation to bend over backwards so you don't feel "discriminated against". Korean rules are Korean rules, it's a foreign country. Take it or leave it.

I hope more instances like this come to light - from women and minorities alike - so people realize just how good they have it in America and Europe.

I'm black and I completely agree. Their country, their rules. You don't have to live there.

One of the things that bugs me most about my country is when we try to push our values and views onto other countries.

And, I always appreciate open racism. Let's me know exactly who I'm dealing with.

[TravelerKai]

(11-20-2014 04:00 PM)etshella Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 04:15 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

At the Atatürk airport in Istanbul, everyone arriving must go through a visa purchase checkpoint where you pay $20 or so for a 30 day pass in the country. I remember this 50 year guy, clearly American, a few feet in front of me, bitching about how they should accept credit cards and how there's no sign saying that they don't accept credit cards. He demanded to speak with the "manager" (as if visa processing is a McDonalds), while holding everyone else up for about 30 minutes. I remember hearing people mumble to themselves about how stupid Americans are in at least 3 languages.

Another time, at a restaurant in Andalusia (beautiful part of Spain) a fat, obnoxious American family demanded a refund because their hash browns weren't American-style hashbrowns. Again, the locals talked shit and it hurt our reputation.

Moral of the story is this: Americans, especially minorities, have no right to bitch and moan about the cultural practices of other countries. It's not America, and no one is under any obligation to bend over backwards so you don't feel "discriminated against". Korean rules are Korean rules, it's a foreign country. Take it or leave it.

I hope more instances like this come to light - from women and minorities alike - so people realize just how good they have it in America and Europe.

I'm black and I completely agree. Their country, their rules. You don't have to live there.

One of the things that bugs me most about my country is when we try to push our values and views onto other countries.

And, I always appreciate open racism. Let's me know exactly who I'm dealing with.

That is one of the things I love about Asia. You almost always know where you stand with a person. If they do not like you, you will know immediately. Only the Japanese avoid doing that. The rest are blunt as fuck and upfront about what they will tolerate. I love that because it saves me time and I do not have to put up with the shitacular "passive aggressiveness" of Americans. Americans are fake as hell and will say good morning out loud with a big smile but be thinking, God I wish this nigger would get out of my face!

It will often take months, maybe years, before you realize they fucking hate your guts right after they stab you in the back hardcore with HR, your boss, the police, your local church, your children at their school, your kid's sports team, etc..

I will take up front racism anyday of the week so that I can avoid that person easily without much effort.

[presidentcarter]

I have to say I would not even consider moving to Russia if I were anything but a white male.

[VincentVinturi]

@Speakeasy

Quote:

I think we've reached an impasse here and at this point we're just going in circles. We have a different philosophy and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Agreed.

Quote:

But on one point where you said: "Affirmative action forces business to hire people they don't want." That's not the case. You don't know how affirmative action works. Affirmative action is not forced on private businesses by the government. When a private business does practice affirmative action it's voluntary. Some high profile fortune 500 companies that want good PR with their consumer base will advertise that they actively recruit a diverse workforce. And even then, nobody is forced to mechanically balance their staff to be inline with the population's demographics. It may mean things like outreach for under-represented groups and such. But this isn't imposed by the government.

Government jobs are another story. They have more power to regulate hiring of staff by ethnicity. So for example, traditionally white jobs like firefighters in Boston or NYC may be forced to start hiring more minorities, especially when the city itself is very diverse. After the LA Riots, the LAPD sought to start recruiting more non-white police officers. If there are contracts to be awarded to private companies, they may have clauses that require that a certain amount of those contracts be to minority-owned businesses.

But in private business, nobody is forcing you to have a diverse staff, otherwise the NBA would've been out of business long ago. However if it's proven that you are actively discriminating against people due to their race, then the EEOC can fine you.

Interesting.

Quote:

I know as a libertarian you put your full faith in the free market to work everything out. Well I don't. The free market had us as chattel slaves and kids working 16 hour days in Cambodia. Fuck the free market as a way of regulating what's right and wrong.

I'm not a libertarian. I'm not an anything. I don't tow any party line or subscribe blindly to a party platform. I take every issue on a case by case basis.

The free market as such doesn't really exist. There's always some level of government intrusion. So fundamentally, the idea of a laissez-faire, unregulated market is nice-sounding but I don't know how practical it is. It's just an idea, it doesn't work out as planned in practice.

However, free market practices have arguably done more to lift humanity out of grinding poverty and into unimaginable affluence in a short century or two than all of history combined.

Regarding Cambodia, I've been there and it really is a very poor country. It fucks with you when you're eating a nice steak on the waterfront in Phnom Penh and a tattered kid who looks like he's legitimately starving comes to your table with big, beautiful brown eyes and begs you for some trifling sum of money.

But I don't see how the free market is responsible for 16 hour workdays for the people of Cambodia. You have to remember that the Khmer Rouge, a communist cadre that believed in the rectitude of government to regulate all aspects of life for the people, killed 1/3 of the population in the name of its communist principles.

If you take an objective look at all the countries in which free market practices have been historically suppressed, you'll find poverty at best and genocide at worst. The USSR, China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cuba, Laos, Cambodia.

China is a great example of a country that despite superficial communism, embraced free market practices to some extent out of sheer necessity. And now they're kicking the world's ass on the economic growth front.

You could counterargue that Scandinavian countries, which are essentially socialist societies, do quite well. But I'd say being forced to pay over 50% of your earnings in taxes to support various welfare programs isn't something I'd ever opt for.

I hear what you're saying about slavery, and I can see it's something you feel strongly about. But I'm not sure that the free market as such is the reason that such a thing occurred. More on the topic:

http://mises.ca/posts/blog/slavery-could...ee-market/

Thanks for challenging my point of view @Speakeasy, it's always good to debate with smart people.

[nomis69]

TravelerKai,

How many years did you live in South Korea?

What is your background?

[Switch]

I hate the American idea that we as a country feel the need to impose our ideas of equality on everyone else.

[Coldfire]

I don't think that wanting some one to base whether or not you get a job on your qualifications and not on an external characteristic that you can't control and in no way affects your ability to do the job is an entirely American idea.