[VincentVinturi]

Quote:

Sean Jones was on his way for a job interview last week in Seoul and received a disturbing text message that reads “Hey Sean. Sorry they just told me they actually want a white teacher.”

Text message that Sean Jones received on Nov. 10 from a recruiter in Korea:

“I was on my way to the interview when I received a text message from my recruiter stating that they only want a white teacher,” Sean told The Korea Observer.

“Regardless of my two plus years of experience, TEFL certification, great references and the ability to speak intermediate Korean, I was turned down before even given an opportunity to speak with them.”

To add insult to injury, the 30-year-old American from Oklahoma experienced racial discrimination again two days after the incident.

This time he received a facebook message that reads, “I am sorry. I just found out today that my school is one of ones that won’t hire black people.”

Sean claims that if Korean schools want to teach their students about western culture then they need to be exposed to all people of western culture.

“This is telling students that black people are bad and white people are good. Why should white people get all the privileges?” he asked. “White privilege is not right. We all deserve an equal chance.”

Sean, who has traveled to a dozen countries, finds that Korea is the most direct about their racism.

It is no wonder Katie Mulrennan, an Irish teacher, was also recently refused a job because of the perceived heavy drinking habits of her countrymen. She received a message that claims she would not be hired due to “the alcoholism nature of your kind.”

“The problem is that there is no law to protect people against discrimination. Not just racism but sexist and discrimination against older people,” Sean argued.

“In Korea, a club can publicly say, ‘no foreigners’ and it is socially accepted. Like I said, there has to be help from native Koreans to change this practice.”

An official at the National Human Rights Commission of Korea acknowledged that there is no anti-discrimination law in Korea and it would be difficult to take any punitive action in most of the cases.

She, however, hinted that Sean has a good chance to shut down the hakwons, or private academies that practiced racial discrimination against him.

“This was a clear violation of the National Human Rights Commission Act which stipulates that people should not be discriminated based on their race or gender,” an official said.

“We cannot directly punish those hakwons but we can make recommendations to government authorities, in this case, the Office of Education, so that they can urge problematic hakwons to stop their discriminatory practices or even consider revoking their license.”

An official of the an English language academy in Seoul, who was chiefly responsible for the discriminatory text message that Sean received on Nov. 10, claimed that her academy often has to eliminate certain candidates because their students are too young and scared of strange foreigners.

“Our students are as young as 4 years old and they even find it difficult to interact with Korean adults,” she said.

She, however, offered an apology to Sean, saying she should have given a chance to meet him for the interview and make a decision based on job applicants’ characters and qualifications, rather than based on their skin colors.

“We were desperate to fill a position and had already found someone by the time when Sean was asked for an interview by a recruiter,” she said.

“I suspect that there was some miscommunication between him and the recruiter.”

Nevertheless, Sean pointed out the academy should be held responsible for racism.

“Even though they are adjusting to what parents want, they are responsible for giving the students a true view of what western culture is truly like,” he said.

“Also though it’s not the recruiter’s fault directly but they assist in the racism when they help the schools to only find white/females. If I were a recruiter I would refuse to work/help any school that practice discrimination.”

Some suspect that Seon was rejected because of his medical history of encephalitis, but the recruiter claims that this wasn’t the case since the academy was not aware of his past illness.

Encephalitis is not a contagious disease and Sean has fully recovered from it.

If you have an English teaching job to offer Sean, you can contact him at [email protected]. Sean majored in Spanish and has taught English in Korea for over 2 years. He has a TEFL certification of 120 hours.

If you are a recruiter and want to advertise new job openings from open-minded hakwons or schools, you may post your ads on koreaobserver.com/jobs.

***

I think employers have every right to discriminate on the basis of race, gender, age and whatsoever else they want.

Even on the basis of no good reason at all.

As a business owner, if I don't want to hire somebody for any reason, that's my right (at least I thought it was!)

Of course I would never be so tactless as to tell a black dude I'm not hiring him because he's black.

Nor would I tell a woman that I'm not hiring her because she's a woman.

But knowing what I know about Asians, I don't think they mean it in a mean-spirited way like "we hate black people, so fuck off."

It's more like "our customers (children's parents) want white teachers. So that's what we're gonna give em. If tomorrow they turn around and want black teachers, we'll give that to them too."

This dude is whining about racism like they're really going to do anything about it in Korea.

Yes, many asians are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic and whatever else. So what? That's their right.

It's called preserving your culture.

I'm sure many of you have seen the Yuri Bezmenov video (the guy who was a high-profile KGB defector) where he goes on to explain that the way subvert a society is to infiltrate it with beliefs that undermine the native culture.

It's not a right to be given a job because you're well qualified.

Nobody has a right to to be on my payroll unless I want them there.

And then, it's not a right but an agreement that can end at any time or in keeping with contractual stipulations.

If you want to come work with me and I don't like your face or something about your personality, I won't hire you, straight up.

Why should you be forced to hire somebody you don't want to hire?

This idea that it's immoral to deny people jobs on the basis of race or sex (or anything at all) is whack.

Of course, if you don't hire the most qualified people, your competitors will.

And that is much more likely to make you re-evaluate how you find employees than being forced to hire people you don't want.

[CimbomluBkk]

Lol this is what makes me laugh about Asia. Its the same in Thailand, on Thaifriendly, bunch of girls have profiles saying they don't want black, indian or turk guys . A lot of girls that had "no turkey guy" comment on their profile messaged me first without knowing I'm a Turk. So what did I do, I banged the shit out of her, but I didn't tell her I'm Turkish, I was canadian that day I feel sorry for Black guys and Indians that have to live in S.East Asia , they can't lie their way out of racism. What I like about the racism in Asia is that they don't try to be politically correct, they clearly state what they want, its their choice after all. However in the West there is silent racism, they never tell you that they don't want you because of your race, they just make something else up. I prefer the one in Asia over one in the West any day.

[lskdfjldsf]

At the Atatürk airport in Istanbul, everyone arriving must go through a visa purchase checkpoint where you pay $20 or so for a 30 day pass in the country. I remember this 50 year guy, clearly American, a few feet in front of me, bitching about how they should accept credit cards and how there's no sign saying that they don't accept credit cards. He demanded to speak with the "manager" (as if visa processing is a McDonalds), while holding everyone else up for about 30 minutes. I remember hearing people mumble to themselves about how stupid Americans are in at least 3 languages.

Another time, at a restaurant in Andalusia (beautiful part of Spain) a fat, obnoxious American family demanded a refund because their hash browns weren't American-style hashbrowns. Again, the locals talked shit and it hurt our reputation.

Moral of the story is this: Americans, especially minorities, have no right to bitch and moan about the cultural practices of other countries. It's not America, and no one is under any obligation to bend over backwards so you don't feel "discriminated against". Korean rules are Korean rules, it's a foreign country. Take it or leave it.

I hope more instances like this come to light - from women and minorities alike - so people realize just how good they have it in America and Europe.

[turkishcandy]

Quote:

“In Korea, a club can publicly say, ‘no foreigners’ and it is socially accepted. Like I said, there has to be help from native Koreans to change this practice.”

Sounds like he got face-controlled to me. Happens to most people, nothing to bitch about. His butt-hurt tone is cringeworthy.

Quote:

“This was a clear violation of the National Human Rights Commission Act which stipulates that people should not be discriminated based on their race or gender,” an official said.
“The problem is that there is no law to protect people against discrimination. Not just racism but sexist and discrimination against older people,” Sean argued.

See how they are trying to play the sexist card again? We have a black guy not getting a job because of his skin color and he and the reporter think this is very relevant to gender discrimination. Segregation = wage gap. Yeah sure.

Quote:

“Our students are as young as 4 years old and they even find it difficult to interact with Korean adults,” she said.
She, however, offered an apology to Sean, saying she should have given a chance to meet him for the interview and make a decision based on job applicants’ characters and qualifications, rather than based on their skin colors.

Sounds reasonable. Here is the reaction of our butt-hurt applicant:

Quote:

Nevertheless, Sean pointed out the academy should be held responsible for racism.
“Even though they are adjusting to what parents want, they are responsible for giving the students a true view of what western culture is truly like,” he said.
“Also though it’s not the recruiter’s fault directly but they assist in the racism when they help the schools to only find white/females. If I were a recruiter I would refuse to work/help any school that practice discrimination.”

And of course, our amazing interview should end with an amazing message:

Quote:

Encephalitis is not a contagious disease and Sean has fully recovered from it.
If you have an English teaching job to offer Sean, you can contact him at [email protected]. Sean majored in Spanish and has taught English in Korea for over 2 years. He has a TEFL certification of 120 hours.
If you are a recruiter and want to advertise new job openings from open-minded hakwons or schools, you may post your ads on koreaobserver.com/jobs.

Here is my personal opinion. What the company did was not right of course, but you have to understand that Korea is one weird country and there is nothing to be done if the parents just don't want their children to be taught by a black guy. The children might even fear him for all I know. The society is extremely introverted, so it's not the recruiter's fault. If you are a black guy and go to a country like Korea to teach English, well guess what dummy, buckle up for some plain racism. Don't go around demand that the society should change overnight and adopt anti-discrimination regulations everywhere. How self-entitled is this? Be a fucking man, don't be a bitch. I go visit Germany and people treat me like a scum because they think I'm just another poor uneducated Turkish immigrant. I won't be allowed in clubs unless I dress up, whereas Germans can enter with t-shirt and shorts. Should I go around giving interviews to newspapers about how racist Germans are? No. I understand the facts of the world I live in, suck it up and move on.

As for the teaching position, in most schools around the world that teach English in exchange for money, native speakers are priority when it comes to recruit or they are exclusively hired. In Istanbul where I live, no matter how many years you've been speaking English and how flawless your accent is, if you are a candidate from, say Ukraine, you are less valuable than any Canadian or American applicant. Is this racism? I'm guessing in a few years it will be established that this is racism. That's where we're headed. If for now it's socially acceptable to hire only native speakers because of their accent and cultural background, why is it not acceptable to hire exclusively white native speakers? Their accent differs a lot. The parents might not want their children to speak with an ebony accent. In that case I don't find anything wrong with it. But if it's only because of skin color, I find it unacceptable, but like I said, it's Korea and nothing unexpected.

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

I agree that there shouldn't be any legislation forcing companies to hire people from any particular ethnicity, race or gender.

At the same time, I wouldn't give my business to any company that discriminated against people based purely on those qualities. I am happy to buy software from a company that just can't find any qualified black developers but I would boycott (possibly pirate) software from a company that refused to hire black people outright.

(11-19-2014 04:15 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

... A lot of girls that had "no turkey guy" comment on their profile messaged me first without knowing I'm a Turk. So what did I do, I banged the shit out of her, but I didn't tell her I'm Turkish, I was canadian that day...

Although my parents are from Latin America, my particular mix of races allows me to pass for a bunch of different races. One bitch I was pulling the Seeking Arrangement scam on started telling me how much she hates spics. It was a lot of fun fucking her and then booting her out with no money.

[turkishcandy]

(11-19-2014 04:15 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

He demanded to speak with the "manager" (as if visa processing is a McDonalds), while holding everyone else up for about 30 minutes.

I'm sure the Turkish cops were very understanding and tolerant and gave him the top class customer service that he was entitled to.

[berserk]

(11-19-2014 04:50 AM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 04:15 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

He demanded to speak with the "manager" (as if visa processing is a McDonalds), while holding everyone else up for about 30 minutes.

I'm sure the Turkish cops were very understanding and tolerant and gave him the top class customer service that he was entitled to.

I hope he tipped well too.

[Old Fritz]

You know, I've heard many instances of South Korean racist behavior. (I don't count this as one of them) And this is why I have no interest in going to that country.

[speakeasy]

(11-19-2014 04:03 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Quote:

Sean Jones was on his way for a job interview last week in Seoul and received a disturbing text message that reads “Hey Sean. Sorry they just told me they actually want a white teacher.”

Text message that Sean Jones received on Nov. 10 from a recruiter in Korea:

“I was on my way to the interview when I received a text message from my recruiter stating that they only want a white teacher,” Sean told The Korea Observer.

“Regardless of my two plus years of experience, TEFL certification, great references and the ability to speak intermediate Korean, I was turned down before even given an opportunity to speak with them.”

To add insult to injury, the 30-year-old American from Oklahoma experienced racial discrimination again two days after the incident.

This time he received a facebook message that reads, “I am sorry. I just found out today that my school is one of ones that won’t hire black people.”

Sean claims that if Korean schools want to teach their students about western culture then they need to be exposed to all people of western culture.

“This is telling students that black people are bad and white people are good. Why should white people get all the privileges?” he asked. “White privilege is not right. We all deserve an equal chance.”

Sean, who has traveled to a dozen countries, finds that Korea is the most direct about their racism.

It is no wonder Katie Mulrennan, an Irish teacher, was also recently refused a job because of the perceived heavy drinking habits of her countrymen. She received a message that claims she would not be hired due to “the alcoholism nature of your kind.”

“The problem is that there is no law to protect people against discrimination. Not just racism but sexist and discrimination against older people,” Sean argued.

“In Korea, a club can publicly say, ‘no foreigners’ and it is socially accepted. Like I said, there has to be help from native Koreans to change this practice.”

An official at the National Human Rights Commission of Korea acknowledged that there is no anti-discrimination law in Korea and it would be difficult to take any punitive action in most of the cases.

She, however, hinted that Sean has a good chance to shut down the hakwons, or private academies that practiced racial discrimination against him.

“This was a clear violation of the National Human Rights Commission Act which stipulates that people should not be discriminated based on their race or gender,” an official said.

“We cannot directly punish those hakwons but we can make recommendations to government authorities, in this case, the Office of Education, so that they can urge problematic hakwons to stop their discriminatory practices or even consider revoking their license.”

An official of the an English language academy in Seoul, who was chiefly responsible for the discriminatory text message that Sean received on Nov. 10, claimed that her academy often has to eliminate certain candidates because their students are too young and scared of strange foreigners.

“Our students are as young as 4 years old and they even find it difficult to interact with Korean adults,” she said.

She, however, offered an apology to Sean, saying she should have given a chance to meet him for the interview and make a decision based on job applicants’ characters and qualifications, rather than based on their skin colors.

“We were desperate to fill a position and had already found someone by the time when Sean was asked for an interview by a recruiter,” she said.

“I suspect that there was some miscommunication between him and the recruiter.”

Nevertheless, Sean pointed out the academy should be held responsible for racism.

“Even though they are adjusting to what parents want, they are responsible for giving the students a true view of what western culture is truly like,” he said.

“Also though it’s not the recruiter’s fault directly but they assist in the racism when they help the schools to only find white/females. If I were a recruiter I would refuse to work/help any school that practice discrimination.”

Some suspect that Seon was rejected because of his medical history of encephalitis, but the recruiter claims that this wasn’t the case since the academy was not aware of his past illness.

Encephalitis is not a contagious disease and Sean has fully recovered from it.

If you have an English teaching job to offer Sean, you can contact him at [email protected]. Sean majored in Spanish and has taught English in Korea for over 2 years. He has a TEFL certification of 120 hours.

If you are a recruiter and want to advertise new job openings from open-minded hakwons or schools, you may post your ads on koreaobserver.com/jobs.

***

I think employers have every right to discriminate on the basis of race, gender, age and whatsoever else they want.

Even on the basis of no good reason at all.

As a business owner, if I don't want to hire somebody for any reason, that's my right (at least I thought it was!)

Of course I would never be so tactless as to tell a black dude I'm not hiring him because he's black.

Nor would I tell a woman that I'm not hiring her because she's a woman.

But knowing what I know about Asians, I don't think they mean it in a mean-spirited way like "we hate black people, so fuck off."

It's more like "our customers (children's parents) want white teachers. So that's what we're gonna give em. If tomorrow they turn around and want black teachers, we'll give that to them too."

This dude is whining about racism like they're really going to do anything about it in Korea.

Yes, many asians are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic and whatever else. So what? That's their right.

It's called preserving your culture.

I'm sure many of you have seen the Yuri Bezmenov video (the guy who was a high-profile KGB defector) where he goes on to explain that the way subvert a society is to infiltrate it with beliefs that undermine the native culture.

It's not a right to be given a job because you're well qualified.

Nobody has a right to to be on my payroll unless I want them there.

And then, it's not a right but an agreement that can end at any time or in keeping with contractual stipulations.

If you want to come work with me and I don't like your face or something about your personality, I won't hire you, straight up.

Why should you be forced to hire somebody you don't want to hire?

This idea that it's immoral to deny people jobs on the basis of race or sex (or anything at all) is whack.

Of course, if you don't hire the most qualified people, your competitors will.

And that is much more likely to make you re-evaluate how you find employees than being forced to hire people you don't want.

You just wrote a long statement defending irrational behavior. What on earth does not hiring a black American teacher have to do with preserving your culture? Are you seriously telling me that one cannot preserve their culture without being an irrational, xenophobic asshole? Is there no middle ground?? Why can I go to Brazil and teach English and not be worried about some fear that I will eradicate Brazilian culture? Maybe some cultures are more paranoid and closed off than others for whatever reason. Be that as it may, it doesn't make the behavior logically defensible. Because someone has a right to do something doesn't mean it's a sensible decision that should be defended. If I see a guy injured on the side of the road and refuse to help, I have a right to do that. Doesn't mean it's morally defensible.

I don't know about you, but to me someone who looks at a person's qualifications for a job and not their race is a more socially evolved person. If you can't get past their race even if they'd be good for the job, you in my mind are archaic and primitive in your thinking. I don't know why this is something to be respected.

(11-19-2014 04:15 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

Moral of the story is this: Americans, especially minorities, have no right to bitch and moan about the cultural practices of other countries. It's not America, and no one is under any obligation to bend over backwards so you don't feel "discriminated against". Korean rules are Korean rules, it's a foreign country. Take it or leave it.

What's wrong with pointing it out? An injustice doesn't stop being an injustice just because you cross an imaginary border. There was a time white Americans felt blacks shouldn't bitch and moan about about Jim Crow. What if white South Africans said apartheid is their culture and people should just leave them the fuck alone and get out if they don't like it?

(11-19-2014 04:35 AM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

If you are a black guy and go to a country like Korea to teach English, well guess what dummy, buckle up for some plain racism. Don't go around demand that the society should change overnight and adopt anti-discrimination regulations everywhere. How self-entitled is this? Be a fucking man, don't be a bitch. I go visit Germany and people treat me like a scum because they think I'm just another poor uneducated Turkish immigrant. I won't be allowed in clubs unless I dress up, whereas Germans can enter with t-shirt and shorts. Should I go around giving interviews to newspapers about how racist Germans are? No. I understand the facts of the world I live in, suck it up and move on.

If you don't speak out, nothing changes. He may have made a poor and uninformed choice in going to Korea. I'd never go there for any reason. But I see no reason why he's "self-entitled" just because he wants to be judged by his fucking credentials and not his skin color. Why does he have no right to make mention of his experience? If for any reason to sound the alarm and warn other black people that are considering looking for teaching work there.

Quote:

As for the teaching position, in most schools around the world that teach English in exchange for money, native speakers are priority when it comes to recruit or they are exclusively hired. In Istanbul where I live, no matter how many years you've been speaking English and how flawless your accent is, if you are a candidate from, say Ukraine, you are less valuable than any Canadian or American applicant. Is this racism? I'm guessing in a few years it will be established that this is racism. That's where we're headed. If for now it's socially acceptable to hire only native speakers because of their accent and cultural background, why is it not acceptable to hire exclusively white native speakers? Their accent differs a lot. The parents might not want their children to speak with an ebony accent. In that case I don't find anything wrong with it. But if it's only because of skin color, I find it unacceptable, but like I said, it's Korea and nothing unexpected.

Uhh...black Americans ARE Native speakers of N. American English. And we don't all talk in ebonics. And the type of black person that would even want to go to Korea in the first place is mostly definitely not the ebonics type. The guy has teaching credentials for English, why the fuck would he be teaching a non-standard type of English in class?

[Sumanguru]

To the tl;dr dude above: if "preserving their culture" was so damn important they wouldn't be hiring WHITE PEOPLE to teach ENGLISH, as whites teaching English has nothing to do with traditional Korean culture.

As for op: that dude must be new to Asia. It's not news that black people are looked down up (and I day this as a black person who had lived in the Pacific).

[Suits]

The ESL industry in Asia is absolutely not about putting qualified teachers into classrooms.

The industry is about 95% marketing, 3% additional BS and approximately 2% substance...if you end up getting a teacher who doesn't routine drink alcohol before and during class-time.

Most private companies in Asia that offer English instruction services are all about getting clients to pay up front for a year or two of classes and then offering the bare minimum.

Having teachers who look the right way is important, because by the student has discovered that they aren't learning anything, it'll be too late to get their money back.

Whereas, if a student immediately encounters a teacher that doesn't match their mental image of the experience they expected, they'll be much more liable to immediately ask for their money back.

That and those doing the hiring are probably incredibly racist themselves.

[Royale]

It's a shame what happened to Sean Jones, but if I had the opportunity to talk to him, I'd ask him this: Did you do your homework before you picked South Korea as your country of choice? Reports regarding racial discrimination have been coming out of that nation for years. The country is one of the most ethnocentric places on the planet, that puts "Koreanness" over everything. Anything that doesn't fit in the cultural operating system is rejected.

If the country wants to deny certain persons for discriminatory reasons, then it is entirely their right. As a "minority", there has to be some level of honesty with yourself, that there is going to be cases where you'll be subjected to prejudice. This is especially true in places known to have a relatively homogenized population (i.e. East and Southeast Asia). With that being said, I applaud him for trying to keep up the good fight (with both his encephalitis and trying to get a English teaching position). While I'm not saying he shouldn't have chosen Korea as his desired destination (since he's learning the language/trying to assimilate into the culture, it gives me the impression that he might particularly like Korean culture). Rather, picking another country that doesn't have the same level of racial overtones might have helped him avoid this situation altogether.

[lskdfjldsf]

Quote:

What's wrong with pointing it out? An injustice doesn't stop being an injustice just because you cross an imaginary border. There was a time white Americans felt blacks shouldn't bitch and moan about about Jim Crow. What if white South Africans said apartheid is their culture and people should just leave them the fuck alone and get out if they don't like it?

Because cultural values are relative. What one person thinks is moral and just, is immoral and unfair to another. We've made the mistake of believing that the most noble fruit of our collective labor is a completely equal society, and that it's the only standard to which others may be measured against us.

To assume Korean culture is wrong or unfair in discriminating against blacks is to assume our own interpretation of what constitutes equality and justice is superior to theirs. In other words, you're comparing apples to oranges.

You may consider this "racist" or "bigoted" or use any word of choice to describe it, but my personal view is that no society is obligated to accept those of another by force. Blacks are stereotyped and viewed with mistrust by other races and cultures for a reason, and it has nothing to do with skin pigmentation. You see this in North America, South America, Europe, the Middle East, and all of Asia. To think of it, the only place where blacks aren't viewed skeptically by a significant portion of a population is in Africa itself. Or is this some giant coincidence?

Western societies are able to decide for themselves what is acceptable within a cultural context and what is not. Asian cultures have the right to do the same. We should be striving for a multicultural world (one where diverse cultures are capable of peacefully coexisting) rather than a multicultural society shoved down everyones throats.

[Bushido]

This is news to anyone?

Korea is a racist shithole. End of story.

[El Chinito loco]

Trying to force ideas of multiculturalism and political correctness onto these countries just opens the door for feminist values as well. It's all far left rhetoric.

There's no proof that multiracial multiculturalism is better than a monocultural homogenous society. Let other countries and people live how they wish. If you don't like it you can always leave as I did.

Besides, someone didn't get the memo that Japan is obviously better for black dudes. He didn't do his research, fuck him.

[speakeasy]

(11-19-2014 05:55 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

Quote:

What's wrong with pointing it out? An injustice doesn't stop being an injustice just because you cross an imaginary border. There was a time white Americans felt blacks shouldn't bitch and moan about about Jim Crow. What if white South Africans said apartheid is their culture and people should just leave them the fuck alone and get out if they don't like it?

Because cultural values are relative. What one person thinks is moral and just, is immoral and unfair to another. We've made the mistake of believing that the most noble fruit of our collective labor is a completely equal society, and that it's the only standard to which others may be measured against us.

To assume Korean culture is wrong or unfair in discriminating against blacks is to assume our own interpretation of what constitutes equality and justice is superior to theirs. In other words, you're comparing apples to oranges.

You may consider this "racist" or "bigoted" or use any word of choice to describe it, but my personal view is that no society is obligated to accept those of another. Western societies should be able to decide for themselves what is acceptable within a cultural context and what is not. Asian cultures have the right to do the same.

We should be striving for a multicultural world (one where diverse cultures are capable of peacefully coexisting) rather than a multicultural society shoved down everyones throats.

Well then we simply have a philosophical difference. You think everything is relative. I do not. I don't think something stops being wrong just because someone of a different culture does it. I'm sure in 100 years from now, Koreans of that time will probably look back on an article like this the same way we now look back on newspaper clippings of Jim Crow in America.

Furthermore, I will bet you any amount of money that if the Koreans that discriminated against this guy were to come to America and themselves be discriminated against for being Korean, even if they were qualified for a job, they'd be outraged by it. So it's not as if they are incapable of understanding the wrong of discrimination, but many people simply don't empathize until it actually happens to them.

[CimbomluBkk]

This has to do with inferiority complex, I'm not a racist but Its a fact that asians feel inferior compared to whites. So when they find someone that is below them in the race department, they take it as an opportunity to unleash their hate. For example Asian women in the west don't really like dating asian guys, they prefer a white guy over an asian any day. Feel sorry for asian men. They are so obsessed with white skin, there are people over there who use umbrellas in sunny weather. After 9/11 muslims went down 2-3 places in the race ladder and as a result arabs and turks were affected by this. I had instances when girls approached me at bars in Asia, only to immediately lose their interest after I told them I'm Turkish. If I said I was Greek or Italian, everything would of been different, they'd probably be in my hotel room within 20-30 mins.

The amount of hate Muslims and Blacks get around the world is sad.

[VincentVinturi]

@speakeasy

Quote:

You just wrote a long statement defending irrational behavior.

What I'm defending is the right to do as you please so long as it doesn't interfere with others' ability to do as they please.

You're looking at the micro perspective of what defines rationality, i.e. it is rational to hire the most qualified candidates irrespective of race. Which I personally agree with.

However, if you zoom out, it is certainly rational to allow business owners to hire whomever they please, even if their hiring process itself isn't logically defensible.

People want to work not only with competent folks, but people want to work with people they want to work with. There is no strict rationality in the way we determine who we like and who we don't like.

In a free market, businesses should be free to operate as they see fit, so long as it doesn't violate the fundamental right of non-infringement upon others' right to do as they see fit. i.e. don't tread on me and we won't have any beef.

Quote:

Are you seriously telling me that one cannot preserve their culture without being an irrational, xenophobic asshole?

I'd love it if a history buff weighed in here (Quintus?)

It seems to me that xenophobia is, in fact, a method of preserving your culture.

Whether it's right or wrong is something I couldn't comment on.

The question is, is it an effective means of keeping foreign elements out of your cultural tapestry?

Quote:

Because someone has a right to do something doesn't mean it's a sensible decision that should be defended.

Quite the contrary.

The right to do whatsoever you please, so long as it doesn't infringe on others' right to the same, regardless of its sensibility (as judged by whom?) must be defended.

If one followed the argument you're making to its logical conclusion, it would mean that you right to eat a box of cookies for no other reason than because you felt like it would be null and void, because eating cookies is injurious to health, and thus not logically defensible. Then, taking it even further, if you were to institute this policy systemically via the government, well...just look at the history of prohibition.

Quote:

If I see a guy injured on the side of the road and refuse to help, I have a right to do that. Doesn't mean it's morally defensible.

Are you saying that because you find it distasteful not to, that everybody should be forced to stop what they're doing, and help anybody whom they perceive to be in distress, at any time, all the time, lest they be punished by law?

Most people already lend a helping hand when they feel it's reasonable to do so. Are you saying we should be compelled to do so? That would make me not want to help a soul. But because I'm free to walk away, I feel no obligation. And out of my freedom I can choose to help somebody.

If you want to make people really not want to do something, force them to do it.

Quote:

I don't know about you, but to me someone who looks at a person's qualifications for a job and not their race is a more socially evolved person. If you can't get past their race even if they'd be good for the job, you in my mind are archaic and primitive in your thinking. I don't know why this is something to be respected.

Unless you live in an Ayn Randiverse, strict technical qualifications aren't the only thing that make somebody a profitable employee. There are many intangible considerations.

I don't agree with the Korean school's decision not to hire this dude because he's black. I would have hired the best teacher. But that's irrelevant because as @Suits pointed out, many of these businesses aren't run to teach kids English. They're just trying to maintain the facade of legitimacy long enough to get the money.

I say that I would have hired the best teacher. But then again, if I were running a school in Korea, and the market demanded white teachers, I'd fill that demand or I'd be out on my ass.

[Constitution45]

(11-19-2014 06:05 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

This has to do with inferiority complex, I'm not a racist but Its a fact that asians feel inferior compared to whites. So when they find someone that is below them in the race department, they take it as an opportunity to unleash their hate. For example Asian women in the west don't really like dating asian guys, they prefer a white guy over an asian any day. Feel sorry for asian men. They are so obsessed with white skin, there are people over there who use umbrellas in sunny weather. After 9/11 muslims went down 2-3 places in the race ladder and as a result arabs and turks were affected by this. I had instances when girls approached me at bars in Asia, only to immediately lose their interest after I told them I'm Turkish. If I said I was Greek or Italian, everything would of been different, they'd probably be in my hotel room within 20-30 mins.

The amount of hate Muslims and Blacks get around the world is sad.

As turkish, do you class yourself as European or Arabic, or just Turkish ?

Genuine question, as a lot of Turks I see, could easily pass off as being from South Europe, even Eastern European in some cases, if you are referring to the Balkan states.


As for the article, this is nothing. Arabs hate black people, in fact a few South American girls I met in London where talking shit about them too, saying how they only want to date white guys or other South Americans. Seems like racism is not just a "European invention" (shock/horror)

[SteveMcMahon]

[CimbomluBkk]

(11-19-2014 06:23 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 06:05 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

This has to do with inferiority complex, I'm not a racist but Its a fact that asians feel inferior compared to whites. So when they find someone that is below them in the race department, they take it as an opportunity to unleash their hate. For example Asian women in the west don't really like dating asian guys, they prefer a white guy over an asian any day. Feel sorry for asian men. They are so obsessed with white skin, there are people over there who use umbrellas in sunny weather. After 9/11 muslims went down 2-3 places in the race ladder and as a result arabs and turks were affected by this. I had instances when girls approached me at bars in Asia, only to immediately lose their interest after I told them I'm Turkish. If I said I was Greek or Italian, everything would of been different, they'd probably be in my hotel room within 20-30 mins.

The amount of hate Muslims and Blacks get around the world is sad.

As turkish, do you class yourself as European or Arabic, or just Turkish ?

Genuine question, as a lot of Turks I see, could easily pass off as being from South Europe, even Eastern European in some cases, if you are referring to the Balkan states.


As for the article, this is nothing. Arabs hate black people, in fact a few South American girls I met in London where talking shit about them too, saying how they only want to date white guys or other South Americans. Seems like racism is not just a "European invention" (shock/horror)

My mothers ancestors immigrated to Turkey from Caucasus, they are circassians, and could easily pass off as Eastern Europeans. My dads ancestors are from Anatolia, and I think they are of persian descent. I'm trying to confirm this, I sent my swabs to Familytreedna to get the ethnicity results. I'll get them in 2-3 weeks.

I could easily pass off as a southern european. I would say I definitely look more European compared to Arabic, but also fit the middle eastern look.

[lskdfjldsf]

(11-19-2014 06:05 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

The amount of hate Muslims and Blacks get around the world is sad.

It is sad. In an ideal world, we'd all be treated with respect and dignity. But we don't live in an ideal world. Below is a list of the world's poorest countries - a pretty reliable metric for how capable people are of governing themselves. Asians don't have the historic and cultural ties with Africans as Westerners do (largely a result of colonialism and the slave trade) and thus base their opinions on the current state of the world, as well as the behavior of blacks in other countries.

It's not racist to see trends and patterns when they clearly exist.

1. Congo (Democratic Republic of the)
2. Niger
3. Burundi
4. Mozambique
5. Chad
6. Liberia
7. Burkina Faso
8. Sierra Leone
9. Central African Republic
10. Guinea
11. Eritrea
12. Guinea-Bissau
13. Mali
14. Ethiopia
15. Zimbabwe
16. Afghanistan
17. Malawi
18. Côte d'lvoire
19. Sudan
20. Gambia
21. Benin
22. Rwanda
23. Djibouti
24. Zambia
25. Comoros
26. Togo
27. Uganda
28. Lesotho
29. Mauritania
30. Haiti
31. Nepal
32. Nigeria
33. Senegal
34. Yemen
35. Papua New Guinea
36. Tanzania, United Republic of
37. Madagascar
38. Cameroon
39. Myanmar
40. Angola
41. Timor-Leste
42. Bangladesh

[Constitution45]

(11-19-2014 06:31 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 06:23 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 06:05 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

This has to do with inferiority complex, I'm not a racist but Its a fact that asians feel inferior compared to whites. So when they find someone that is below them in the race department, they take it as an opportunity to unleash their hate. For example Asian women in the west don't really like dating asian guys, they prefer a white guy over an asian any day. Feel sorry for asian men. They are so obsessed with white skin, there are people over there who use umbrellas in sunny weather. After 9/11 muslims went down 2-3 places in the race ladder and as a result arabs and turks were affected by this. I had instances when girls approached me at bars in Asia, only to immediately lose their interest after I told them I'm Turkish. If I said I was Greek or Italian, everything would of been different, they'd probably be in my hotel room within 20-30 mins.

The amount of hate Muslims and Blacks get around the world is sad.

As turkish, do you class yourself as European or Arabic, or just Turkish ?

Genuine question, as a lot of Turks I see, could easily pass off as being from South Europe, even Eastern European in some cases, if you are referring to the Balkan states.


As for the article, this is nothing. Arabs hate black people, in fact a few South American girls I met in London where talking shit about them too, saying how they only want to date white guys or other South Americans. Seems like racism is not just a "European invention" (shock/horror)

My mothers ancestors immigrated to Turkey from Caucasus, they are circassians, and could easily pass off as Eastern Europeans. My dads ancestors are from Anatolia, and I think they are of persian descent. I'm trying to confirm this, I sent my swabs to Familytreedna to get the ethnicity results. I'll get them in 2-3 weeks.

I could easily pass off as a southern european. I would say I definitely look more European compared to Arabic, but also fit the middle eastern look.

Ah interesting, just someone said they thought I was turkish the other day and my friend's girlfriend is turkish; yet she could pass off as being European without a doubt.

I suppose the apprehension towards Turks is more of a cultural thing more than anything else.

[Old Fritz]

(11-19-2014 06:23 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 06:05 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

This has to do with inferiority complex, I'm not a racist but Its a fact that asians feel inferior compared to whites. So when they find someone that is below them in the race department, they take it as an opportunity to unleash their hate. For example Asian women in the west don't really like dating asian guys, they prefer a white guy over an asian any day. Feel sorry for asian men. They are so obsessed with white skin, there are people over there who use umbrellas in sunny weather. After 9/11 muslims went down 2-3 places in the race ladder and as a result arabs and turks were affected by this. I had instances when girls approached me at bars in Asia, only to immediately lose their interest after I told them I'm Turkish. If I said I was Greek or Italian, everything would of been different, they'd probably be in my hotel room within 20-30 mins.

The amount of hate Muslims and Blacks get around the world is sad.

As turkish, do you class yourself as European or Arabic, or just Turkish ?

Genuine question, as a lot of Turks I see, could easily pass off as being from South Europe, even Eastern European in some cases, if you are referring to the Balkan states.


As for the article, this is nothing. Arabs hate black people, in fact a few South American girls I met in London where talking shit about them too, saying how they only want to date white guys or other South Americans. Seems like racism is not just a "European invention" (shock/horror)

Really?

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

Racism in South Korea is extremely well known, and should come as a surprise to absolutely no one, especially a black man living there.
Also, the article is is really poorly written, and states obvious points and unnecessary points in a way that almost seems like trolling.
So, two possibilities:

1. Black dude is smarter than we give him credit for, and after seeing the traction the drunk Irish girl story got, decided he wanted in on the viral action and out of English teaching. What's a story like this worth? 1000 twitter followers? connections with anti racism businessmen like Sharpton? springboard to write/promote a book?

2. The "author" realized the same, made a plausible and unverifiable story up, and is trolling for page views.