[speakeasy]

(11-19-2014 06:23 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

What I'm defending is the right to do as you please so long as it doesn't interfere with others' ability to do as they please.

I'd say that definitely interfered with the black guy's ability to do as he pleased, i.e. teach English.

Now suppose you wanted to teach in an American school and a liberal school board rejected you on the grounds that female teachers are supposedly more trustworthy around children. Would you say that's their right and it's defensible, or would you be firing off an article on RoKs about anti-male discrimination?

Quote:

You're looking at the micro perspective of what defines rationality, i.e. it is rational to hire the most qualified candidates irrespective of race. Which I personally agree with.

However, if you zoom out, it is certainly rational to allow business owners to hire whomever they please, even if their hiring process itself isn't logically defensible.

I'm assuming you're making this as a general statement and not limited to Korea. Understand that you are talking to a black American who has 400 years of discriminatory history behind me. Don't be surprised if I cannot relate to your libertarian philosophy on these matters. If your ancestors faced 4 centuries of racial discrimination and were hurt by it, your perspective might be different. I'm by no means saying businesses should be forced to hire people using quotas. But I also don't think it should be legal to actively bar people from employment based on their ancestry. To me that would be taking a major leap back in time to an era I'd love to forget about.

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People want to work not only with competent folks, but people want to work with people they want to work with. There is no strict rationality in the way we determine who we like and who we don't like.

You're not telling me anything here that I don't know. But we do have a constitution and supreme court and we've decided as a society that barring people from employment on account of race is unjust.

Quote:

In a free market, businesses should be free to operate as they see fit, so long as it doesn't violate the fundamental right of non-infringement upon others' right to do as they see fit. i.e. don't tread on me and we won't have any beef.

You're violating people's ability to make a living and support themselves.

Quote:

It seems to me that xenophobia is, in fact, a method of preserving your culture.

Preserving one's culture is an outcome of xenophobia. It's ultimately a dislike of people that aren't like you. Brazil is not a xenophobic culture and I don't see it being under any threat of disappearing because of that fact. Want to have a culture that survives? Have a culture that has a wide appeal. Look at American culture, for better or for worse, so much of the music, food, fashion, technology, movies, TV etc has been adopted across the globe. I've met Thais is Thailand who've never left the country but speak fluent English because they grew up watching American movies.

Quote:

The question is, is it an effective means of keeping foreign elements out of your cultural tapestry?

You're giving xenophobia too much credit. Xenophobia isn't a method, it's a state of mind.

Quote:

The right to do whatsoever you please, so long as it doesn't infringe on others' right to the same, regardless of its sensibility (as judged by whom?) must be defended.

That only works when everyone yields equal power. If everything is fundamentally unequal, the weaker get fucked as the powerless have no ability to discriminate against the powerful.

Quote:

If one followed the argument you're making to its logical conclusion, it would mean that you right to eat a box of cookies for no other reason than because you felt like it would be null and void, because eating cookies is injurious to health, and thus not logically defensible. Then, taking it even further, if you were to institute this policy systemically via the government, well...just look at the history of prohibition.

Injuring my health would only hurt me. Barring someone from employment due to their race hurts someone else. So I don't understand your point.

Quote:

Are you saying that because you find it distasteful not to, that everybody should be forced to stop what they're doing, and help anybody whom they perceive to be in distress, at any time, all the time, lest they be punished by law?

Most people already lend a helping hand when they feel it's reasonable to do so. Are you saying we should be compelled to do so? That would make me not want to help a soul. But because I'm free to walk away, I feel no obligation. And out of my freedom I can choose to help somebody.

I didn't say everyone should be forced to help. You're missing my point. I'm saying that because you have a legal right to not help an injured person laying on the road doesn't mean it's morally or logically defensible. We all know that this black guy doesn't have rights in Korea. Rights are social constructs granted by law. Logic and morality exist independently of law. Often they intersect with rights, sometimes they do not. I have the right to say all types of fucked up shit about someone in public and it's a protected right under the constitution. That however doesn't make it morally or logically justifiable to behave in such a way. Let's not talk about rights and morality like they are one and the same.

Quote:

I say that I would have hired the best teacher. But then again, if I were running a school in Korea, and the market demanded white teachers, I'd fill that demand or I'd be out on my ass.

There actually are black teachers who have successfully found work in Korea. I've seen their youtube channels. It's not as if all Koreans will universally discriminate against blacks. Many will however. This also goes on routinely in China. I'd ultimately like to see people act logically and for reason to prevail. If this teacher had been hired, maybe the students and parents would be uncomfortable for a week, but eventually they'd figure out that he's ultimately doing the same thing that white teachers do, their children aren't being harmed and the whole fear was much ado over nothing.

[Phoenix]

<shrugs>
Freedom of association. If the parents of the Korean students believe that 'having a white face' is the best gauge of English language ability (which they do actually believe), that's their problem. The problem is 'stupidity', not 'racism'. I second the 'Korea is a weird place' sentiment.

Black guys also get different treatment in Korea from a certain niche of girls. I saw one girl who made me fucking jealous of the plain-looking black guy she was with. Damn she was hot. Bet they're not complaining about that.

Just apply again somewhere else old boy.

[R Smoov]

Fuck em. Even Kim Jong Ill fucks with black people to an extent.

North Korea best Korea.

[pitt]

Speakeasy, if you were to open a primary school in a black community (known as homophobic) and you had flamboyant homosexuals teachers applying for jobs, would you employ them?

[Goldfinger]

@Blink Mang

(11-19-2014 06:38 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 06:05 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

The amount of hate Muslims and Blacks get around the world is sad.

It is sad. In an ideal world, we'd all be treated with respect and dignity. But we don't live in an ideal world. Below is a list of the world's poorest countries - a pretty reliable metric for how capable people are of governing themselves. Asians don't have the historic and cultural ties with Africans as Westerners do (largely a result of colonialism and the slave trade) and thus base their opinions on the current state of the world, as well as the behavior of blacks in other countries.

It's not racist to see trends and patterns when they clearly exist.

1. Congo (Democratic Republic of the)
2. Niger
3. Burundi
4. Mozambique
5. Chad
6. Liberia
7. Burkina Faso
8. Sierra Leone
9. Central African Republic
10. Guinea
11. Eritrea
12. Guinea-Bissau
13. Mali
14. Ethiopia
15. Zimbabwe
16. Afghanistan
17. Malawi
18. Côte d'lvoire
19. Sudan
20. Gambia
21. Benin
22. Rwanda
23. Djibouti
24. Zambia
25. Comoros
26. Togo
27. Uganda
28. Lesotho
29. Mauritania
30. Haiti
31. Nepal
32. Nigeria
33. Senegal
34. Yemen
35. Papua New Guinea
36. Tanzania, United Republic of
37. Madagascar
38. Cameroon
39. Myanmar
40. Angola
41. Timor-Leste
42. Bangladesh

Nigeria the 32nd poorest country in the world? i cal BS on the validity of that source.

[Krusyos]

(11-19-2014 06:38 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 06:05 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

The amount of hate Muslims and Blacks get around the world is sad.

It is sad. In an ideal world, we'd all be treated with respect and dignity. But we don't live in an ideal world. Below is a list of the world's poorest countries - a pretty reliable metric for how capable people are of governing themselves. Asians don't have the historic and cultural ties with Africans as Westerners do (largely a result of colonialism and the slave trade) and thus base their opinions on the current state of the world, as well as the behavior of blacks in other countries.

It's not racist to see trends and patterns when they clearly exist.

1. Congo (Democratic Republic of the)
2. Niger
3. Burundi
4. Mozambique
5. Chad
6. Liberia
7. Burkina Faso
8. Sierra Leone
9. Central African Republic
10. Guinea
11. Eritrea
12. Guinea-Bissau
13. Mali
14. Ethiopia
15. Zimbabwe
16. Afghanistan
17. Malawi
18. Côte d'lvoire
19. Sudan
20. Gambia
21. Benin
22. Rwanda
23. Djibouti
24. Zambia
25. Comoros
26. Togo
27. Uganda
28. Lesotho
29. Mauritania
30. Haiti
31. Nepal
32. Nigeria
33. Senegal
34. Yemen
35. Papua New Guinea
36. Tanzania, United Republic of
37. Madagascar
38. Cameroon
39. Myanmar
40. Angola
41. Timor-Leste
42. Bangladesh

Oh my God... just... like.... I can't even...

*insert long unintelligent rant about colonialism and African sainthood here*

[Mentavious]

I read the title and the comments did not disappoint.

[speakeasy]

(11-19-2014 07:49 AM)pitt Wrote:  

Speakeasy, if you were to open a primary school in a black community (known as homophobic) and you had flamboyant homosexuals teachers applying for jobs, would you employ them?

I wouldn't discriminate against a gay teacher. As long as he isn't trying to force the homosexual lifestyle on kids or propagandize them to be pro-gay it makes no difference what he does in the privacy of his bedroom.

Keep in mind that race is what you look like, and homosexuality is a behavior. You can keep your sexuality in the closet, you can't put your race in the closet. So it's not a good analogy. I've had a gay teacher in high school and I would never know he was gay if he didn't say it. Even back then, I had no problem with him. He just acted like a normal guy in class.

[Suits]

I haven't worked in Korea, but judging by who I've seen hired to work there as teachers (unqualified foreigners who have never taught a day in their life) and based on stories I'm familiar with via word of mouth, I'm going to jump to the conclusion that English training centers in Korea different very little from those I've seen in countries that I'm more familiar with.

Teaching a language effectively is actually fairly straight forward and most students can quickly learn a new language. It does take a certain time commitment and a longer period of time to amass the necessary vocabulary, but getting people talking in a new language using the vocabulary that they already know isn't that hard.

What we actually see in virtually all language instruction is topic based instruction. Each unit covers a new topic, but that topic is rarely repeatedly practiced enough to develop any functional use of the language, so a person can spend years studying a new language and never learn to speak it unless they get out and practice on their own.

The method I use is different:
It's basically a simple exercise of constant repetition, using scenario based learning, which permits a student to develop competency in a small area of language. From there, the brain can very naturally integrate new vocabulary into the sentence patterns learned by using the language in just one area (for example, a fast food restaurant food ordering scenario).

This model, which I've personally developed, works wonders in a short period of time.

Despite the ease of this model (any teacher could use it with success), I don't see anyone using it. I never have. My university language instructors didn't take advantage of it. We had language lab once a week, but it wasn't useful, because no one every concentrated on one area of competency long enough for students to have a functional conversation in any one area. As a result, we never learned to talk at all. My language instructors in China and Japan only occasion used scenario based learning, but not enough to capitalize on it.

It's my conclusion, therefore, that very people, even those who specialize in language instruction and producing language curriculum, know anything about how the brain actually learns languages.

All approaches that I've seen to teaching language other than my own are entirely academic in their approach.

Academically gifted people will usually memorize enough to kind of be able to speak easier languages (Spanish, etc), but many academically gifted people completely fail at more difficult languages (Chinese, etc).

I write all this to argue that in China, Thailand or Korea, very few schools offer anything of value when I comes to language instruction.

If a school does offer something of value, their reputation will precede them and students will care dick all about what the colour of their teacher's skin is, because they know for a fact that they are going to achieve their language learning goal.

In reality, very few schools anywhere do a good job teaching language efficiently, so they have to instead make up for it by hiring teachers whose appearance offer the right emotional release for their students.

[Mentavious]

(11-19-2014 04:15 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

At the Atatürk airport in Istanbul, everyone arriving must go through a visa purchase checkpoint where you pay $20 or so for a 30 day pass in the country. I remember this 50 year guy, clearly American, a few feet in front of me, bitching about how they should accept credit cards and how there's no sign saying that they don't accept credit cards. He demanded to speak with the "manager" (as if visa processing is a McDonalds), while holding everyone else up for about 30 minutes. I remember hearing people mumble to themselves about how stupid Americans are in at least 3 languages.

Another time, at a restaurant in Andalusia (beautiful part of Spain) a fat, obnoxious American family demanded a refund because their hash browns weren't American-style hashbrowns. Again, the locals talked shit and it hurt our reputation.

Moral of the story is this: Americans, especially minorities, have no right to bitch and moan about the cultural practices of other countries. It's not America, and no one is under any obligation to bend over backwards so you don't feel "discriminated against". Korean rules are Korean rules, it's a foreign country. Take it or leave it.

I hope more instances like this come to light - from women and minorities alike - so people realize just how good they have it in America and Europe.

Everytime I have visited a different countries it's been white Americans who bitch about the countries practices. Everything you said is true but I don't understand why you say 'especially minorities' when the majority of travelers who commit these crimes are white men and woman.

[bojangles]

It's unfortunate for the guy but you have to do your research beforehand. He evidently didn't and struck out.

[Lemmo]

The Irish girl's story was either fabricated or meaningless (involved a response she received from a random ad on Craigslist). This story involves a nameless recruiter speaking on behalf of a nameless school sending a text message and a 3rd hand message on Facebook. Most likely the real story is the dregs of the West coming to Asia and trying to set up profitable outposts of the racial grievance industry. A Google search will reveal many similar sorts of bottom feeders, especially in Japan ("Someone looked at me on the subway. Microaggression!")

[lskdfjldsf]

(11-19-2014 08:00 AM)Mentavious Wrote:  

Everytime I have visited a different countries it's been white Americans who bitch about the countries practices. Everything you said is true but I don't understand why you say 'especially minorities' when the majority of travelers who commit these crimes are white men and woman.

Because women and minorities are the most vocal in the United States about racism, sexism, discrimination, etc. You can literally beat these people over the head with the truth and they'll still hamsterize themselves into believing it's not their fault.

I'm not promoting discrimination, I just think certain groups of people need to have a long, hard look at why they're viewed and treated harshly if it's a recurring theme in every continent, every country, every decade of every century. It's like the fat women who write articles blaming their loneliness on men, on other women, on society, etc. while they aren't even capable of looking in the mirror.

The truth is uncomfortable, but it should ultimately lead to the conclusion that, while certain groups may bear some responsibility for the current state of race relations (rather than living in complete denial), individuals belonging to these groups should still be treated with courtesy and respect.

From a legal perspective, it's quite obvious that American blacks aren't protected by the same civil rights legislation and discrimination laws in Korea as they are in the United States.

[Mentavious]

Can we get a link to this article and not just a quote?

Anyways, he had already been working in Korea for two years. So either the money is good or/and he found a niche with some Korean girls to get with.

[TravelerKai]

Korean men are the most butt hurt of all Asian men if you take one of their pretty women. Their physical attacks on foreigners dating their women are well documented. So none of this should be a surprise.

I wouldn't recommend teaching in Asia as a non-white person. I would not recommend a white guy teach English in Korea. There is no need for that. Stack your paper, go visit, date women, eventually keep a very pretty one, make those haterz madder, profit. English teachers are often times looked down upon in Asia. While I walked around China, some Chinese people asked if I was something like a doctor or lawyer. They could tell I did not teach English there for whatever reasons. I'm neither of those, but that's not the point. The point is that if you can help it, don't let others have an upper hand on you like that. Especially if you are on the bottom of their totem pole ethnicity wise.

If this guy wanted to go teach there, for a cultural experience without any real goals of dating, etc. then he should just go spin a fucking globe and throw a piece of gum on it randomly. Plenty other places for that. If he had other goals, this is 100% his fault for not doing his due diligence and he should shut the fuck up. I skipped Korea for more reasons other than this my ownself. Dreambig and Pheonix were spot on. The place is full of haters. They will fight you on the street of come to your apartment with baseball bats all over jealousy. White, black, doesn't matter to them. They cockblock everyone. Their women are not even the hottest in Asia anyway. Fuck em.

Oh yeah and Blick, you come off racist as hell. You need to drop all this black people behavior crap. You can save that shit for a domestic US issue debate. International travel almost never involves the ghetto dark hooligan monkeys you no doubt obsess over. No Tyrone with his toilet paper long rap sheet is flying to Asia or Latin America to teach anyone any god damned thing. That kind of person cannot afford to even buy a passport with his foodstamp money you would probably swear he has, when in fact, he could never afford it even if he hauled garbage for a living after he got his shit together and works legit now. I bet you cannot even find enough cases of black men selling drugs on the street in other countries. So just drop it and move on.

[iop890]

(11-19-2014 08:59 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Their women are not even the hottest in Asia anyway. Fuck em.

Let's turn this race thread into something more productive. Who ARE the hottest girls in Asia?

[TravelerKai]

(11-19-2014 09:04 AM)iop890 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 08:59 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Their women are not even the hottest in Asia anyway. Fuck em.

Let's turn this race thread into something more productive. Who ARE the hottest girls in Asia?

Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Thai, Filipino in that order. Done.

[Constitution45]

(11-19-2014 07:33 AM)Old Fritz Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 06:23 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 06:05 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

This has to do with inferiority complex, I'm not a racist but Its a fact that asians feel inferior compared to whites. So when they find someone that is below them in the race department, they take it as an opportunity to unleash their hate. For example Asian women in the west don't really like dating asian guys, they prefer a white guy over an asian any day. Feel sorry for asian men. They are so obsessed with white skin, there are people over there who use umbrellas in sunny weather. After 9/11 muslims went down 2-3 places in the race ladder and as a result arabs and turks were affected by this. I had instances when girls approached me at bars in Asia, only to immediately lose their interest after I told them I'm Turkish. If I said I was Greek or Italian, everything would of been different, they'd probably be in my hotel room within 20-30 mins.

The amount of hate Muslims and Blacks get around the world is sad.

As turkish, do you class yourself as European or Arabic, or just Turkish ?

Genuine question, as a lot of Turks I see, could easily pass off as being from South Europe, even Eastern European in some cases, if you are referring to the Balkan states.


As for the article, this is nothing. Arabs hate black people, in fact a few South American girls I met in London where talking shit about them too, saying how they only want to date white guys or other South Americans. Seems like racism is not just a "European invention" (shock/horror)

Really?

Europeans originally learnt slaving techniques from the Arabs, if you read the writes of sheiks and Arabic philosophers dating back to the middle ages, it was fall of bad descriptions and portrayals of black africans.

I remember when living in the Middle East, I showed a picture of a black girl I was living with. This was a former beauty contestant, good looking young black 20 year old. The men I was showing the picture to started hollering and calling her a donkey, while making animal noises. I don't subscribe to political correctness but that was just straight messed up.

[J DOE]

Man... that's a huge problem I have with South Korea. In the book Black Passenger, Yellow Cab he talks about how they don't really like black people over there, but if you look at their media they love Rap, Hip-Hop, R&B, Breakdancing and American black culture in general.

[CimbomluBkk]

(11-19-2014 09:04 AM)iop890 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 08:59 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Their women are not even the hottest in Asia anyway. Fuck em.

Let's turn this race thread into something more productive. Who ARE the hottest girls in Asia?

Chinese chicks in Malaysia

[TravelerKai]

(11-19-2014 09:15 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:04 AM)iop890 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 08:59 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Their women are not even the hottest in Asia anyway. Fuck em.

Let's turn this race thread into something more productive. Who ARE the hottest girls in Asia?

Chinese chicks in Malaysia

There are pretty rich ones in Laos and the Philippines as well. I have heard Cambodia as well, but I never saw any so I really don't know for sure.

[iop890]

(11-19-2014 09:15 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:04 AM)iop890 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 08:59 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Their women are not even the hottest in Asia anyway. Fuck em.

Let's turn this race thread into something more productive. Who ARE the hottest girls in Asia?

Chinese chicks in Malaysia

Where are they hiding? When I was in Kuala Lumpur I was a bit disappointed with the talent, but I wasn't there long.

[TravelerKai]

(11-19-2014 09:14 AM)J DOE Wrote:  

Man... that's a huge problem I have with South Korea. In the book Black Passenger, Yellow Cab he talks about how they don't really like black people over there, but if you look at their media they love Rap, Hip-Hop, R&B, Breakdancing and American black culture in general.

It's because of their men. They are always angry about a myriad of things. They are in many cases hyper-masculine and if you mix that and xenophobia and racism, you get South Korea. The Chinese would be as bad as them, but they have a cultural thing about minding your own damn business. Also the sheer size and number of Chinese cause them to care alot less. Korea is not very big, opportunities are competitive, young men are struggling economically and careerwise (sharing it with women in the workforce), and they are surrounded by enemies with no buffer zones. This causes underlying anxiety.

Not just hiphop, but they also took strongly to Christianity as a religion. Does it show in their behavior? No, because there is more to it than that.

[TravelerKai]

(11-19-2014 09:21 AM)iop890 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:15 AM)CimbomluBkk Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:04 AM)iop890 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 08:59 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Their women are not even the hottest in Asia anyway. Fuck em.

Let's turn this race thread into something more productive. Who ARE the hottest girls in Asia?

Chinese chicks in Malaysia

Where are they hiding? When I was in Kuala Lumpur I was a bit disappointed with the talent, but I wasn't there long.

A friend of mine told me that they are involved in many of the businesses there and social/business circle game is a must in order to gain access to them. They commonly are used to inter-marry into the business elite of other Chinese there. This same person told me that in the Philippines, it is the same deal more or less. Alot of them are in the local money lending operations.

This also is related to that angst the local indo-malay people have when they call the Chinese there, the Jews of the East.

[lskdfjldsf]

Quote:

Oh yeah and Blick, you come off racist as hell. You need to drop all this black people behavior crap. You can save that shit for a domestic US issue debate. International travel almost never involves the ghetto dark hooligan monkeys you no doubt obsess over.

In a discussion on why Asians are racist towards a people they have no historical or cultural connection with, are behavior and perception not relevant topics? Or is non-PC speech only permitted when women are the subject matter?

Anyone who has traveled or lived abroad knows that black culture in America is vastly different than black culture outside of America. Understanding why generalizations are made in the first place is crucial to solving any social issue. I made it abundantly clear in several of my posts that discrimination is a bad thing, but that this needs to be viewed within a full cultural context.