[dontuan]

Hey all, I'm a freelancer and have spend quite a bit of time researching places where they allow freelancers to live long term on a visa or offer long term residency so I wanted to offer up what I know and perhaps it can help everyone.

I've mostly been looking around Europe since that's where I want to have a base and anchor down long term. For me, one big advantage about getting long term residency in EU countries is that you're much more free to move about the Schengen area, without worrying about the 90 days in and 90 days out rule. The drawback though is that in almost all these situations, the government will collect taxes from your income. But in inexpensive countries, it might not be much.

From what I know, Germany, Spain, France, Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Netherlands are places that have a pathway to stay long term as an independent or remote worker. There's plenty of information on the Germany artist/freelance visa, because it's so dang popular, but little on the rest (I'd much live elsewhere than Germany imho). And the degree of difficulty and requirements differ depending on the conditions of the country.

So here are some links to :

Bulgaria (I heard it was pretty easy)

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Bulgar...nce-permit
http://www.lawbg.info/visas.html


Germany, Spain, Bulgaria

http://www.vagabondjourney.com/how-to-ge...cy-permit/

France, Germany

http://thesavvybackpacker.com/long-term-travel-europe/

Czech Republic (not hard, I heard)

http://www.expats.cz/prague/article/prag...e-licence/
http://www.wandertooth.com/zivnostensky-...ue-not-eu/
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-29000-...#pid556454

The Netherlands (a bit complicated it seems)

http://www.expatica.com/nl/visas-and-per...08431.html

Romania (a bit trickier)

http://www.wanderingearl.com/how-i-obtai...n-country/

Poland (more of a loophole than actual legal status, but should also work)

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-31412.html

Spain (couldn't find much about it, but apparently there's a way)

http://comoconsultingspain.com/services/

A good site for general information on how different European countries handle freelance workers:

http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/tab2Redirect.do

I hope this is helpful for everyone who has the dream to live long term in another country. If you have any experiences with this or know anything about how it works in various counties, please do share. I'm hoping this thread can be a definitive resource for everyone.

cheers!

[Northern]

(11-17-2014 08:23 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

...
For me, one big advantage about getting long term residency in EU countries is that you're much more free to move about the Schengen area, without worrying about the 90 days in and 90 days out rule.
...

If you get such a visa in, for example, Bulgaria, does it mean you can stay for more than 90 days in, for example, Spain?

[dontuan]

(11-17-2014 08:40 PM)Northern Wrote:  

(11-17-2014 08:23 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

...
For me, one big advantage about getting long term residency in EU countries is that you're much more free to move about the Schengen area, without worrying about the 90 days in and 90 days out rule.
...

If you get such a visa in, for example, Bulgaria, does it mean you can stay for more than 90 days in, for example, Spain?

Bulgaria isn't part of Schengen (yet!), so no it won't allow you to roam free in other countries. But if you get a long term visa in a Schengen country, you can move about more.

[aphelion]

This is a good list and should be stickied.

[The_CEO]

Just read that Spain is smoothing the path for entrepreneurs

[Cyclone]

The real question is in how many of those countries is English common? Those are all practically in Europe so if you pick up the wrong language, you'll have wasted your time. Netherlands i think would be the closest but you better make the right choice if you're planning to pick up the language.
.

[Helmutnl]

I've read somewhere that in Spain and Malta one can obtain the residence permit easily if one invested in real estates with a couple of hundreds of thousands worth of Euros and such, and also once I saw a report in which some Chinese businessmen acquired Latvian residence permits after investing in the houses there.

[Trav_Ler]

Armenia and Georgia are doable if you can deal with the isolation (there are very few Western expats).

In Armenia you can get a 4-month tourist visa on arrival for usd$40 and then go to Georgia (by bus or train) and come right back into Armenia for another 4 months. Rinse, repeat.

Armenia is dirt-cheap (15,000 to 20,000 Armenian dram per month for an apartment when you get away from Yerevan) and very safe. Foreigners are held in high respect, neither the locals nor the government will bother you. Beef is cheap, free-ranging grass-fed. Tap water (again, away from Yerevan) is fine. Few people speak English (*very* few outside Yerevan) but hiring an interpreter (who can work via cellphone) is, wait for it... CHEAP. However, as explained in the thread on Armenia, the country is a non-starter for sowing one's oats.

Georgia is somewhat more expensive but still very cheap and safe, and it's probably the only country on Earth that's visa free for an entire year. You might be able to get laid in Tbilisi, but elsewhere it'll be like Armenia.

Both Georgia and Armenia are former Soviet and thus pretty ugly places, with long winters are hot summers.

You can reside in Uruguay as soon as you apply for permanent residency, and that application process costs only two or three grand (AFAIK there's still no requirement to show any income/assets). And you can apply after you've arrived on a tourist visa.

Last I heard re Argentina, you can overstay for months or years and the penalty is just a small fine. The Kirchner shenanigans get lots of bad press, but Argentina is very cheap for foreigners and crime isn't difficult to avoid there, especially outside the capital.

You can overstay in Dominican Republic and then pay a bribe to get a recent entry stamp in your passport.

Other things equal I don't recommend overstaying because of future problems it could cause; some countries' visa applications ask if you've ever overstayed anywhere, and although you would no doubt get away with lying in the short run, it could come back to bite you as databases get increasingly linked over time.

I've read somewhere that in Spain and Malta one can obtain the residence permit easily if one invested in real estates with a couple of hundreds of thousands worth of Euros


With enough cash, long-term residence is doable in the majority of countries. US residency, for example, costs as little as 500k

[DaveR]

Slovakia and Estonia are options for anyone with income. You will need to incorporate a local limited liability company and then appoint yourself as the managing director. Initial capital requirements are very low in both countries. There is a quota system in Estonia, but it isn't a problem as long as you're not Russian.

(11-17-2014 08:23 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

I've mostly been looking around Europe since that's where I want to have a base and anchor down long term. For me, one big advantage about getting long term residency in EU countries is that you're much more free to move about the Schengen area, without worrying about the 90 days in and 90 days out rule.

EU residence permits do not allow you to freely move around the Schengen zone - they are only valid for unlimited stay in the country in which they are issued. Residence permit holders are entitled to 90/180 day access to the rest of the Schengen zone, but people from developed countries already had that anyway.
Only citizenship of an EU country gives unlimited access to travel around the Schengen zone without the need to acquire residence permits.
The good news is that if you're happy to skirt the law, there is little chance of getting caught as long as you have a residence permit somewhere.

(11-17-2014 08:23 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

The drawback though is that in almost all these situations, the government will collect taxes from your income. But in inexpensive countries, it might not be much.

If you are American, you will have to pay taxes regardless of where you live, and whatever you pay in Europe can be credited against your US tax bill due to double tax avoidance treaties.


Also keep in mind that in most EU countries you will need to maintain an address (owned or official rental contract). The Police usually come to the address to check that you really live there, so you won't be able to apply for a residence permit and then depart for another country.

[speakeasy]

(01-09-2015 10:10 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

If you are American, you will have to pay taxes regardless of where you live, and whatever you pay in Europe can be credited against your US tax bill due to double tax avoidance treaties.

I had heard that you don't have to pay US taxes unless your income is over a certain threshold. Or am I wrong?

[worldwidetraveler]

(01-09-2015 03:35 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 10:10 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

If you are American, you will have to pay taxes regardless of where you live, and whatever you pay in Europe can be credited against your US tax bill due to double tax avoidance treaties.

I had heard that you don't have to pay US taxes unless your income is over a certain threshold. Or am I wrong?

Personal income under 97k (approximate) is tax free if you stay out of the US for 330 days.

It's called Foreign Earned Income Exclusion if you want to look it up.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Internati...-Exclusion

[DaveR]

(01-09-2015 03:42 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 03:35 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 10:10 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

If you are American, you will have to pay taxes regardless of where you live, and whatever you pay in Europe can be credited against your US tax bill due to double tax avoidance treaties.

I had heard that you don't have to pay US taxes unless your income is over a certain threshold. Or am I wrong?

Personal income under 92k (approximate) is tax free if you stay out of the US for 330 days.

It's called Foreign Earned Income Exclusion if you want to look it up.

But the self-employment tax would still have to be paid for freelance work.

[dontuan]

(01-09-2015 10:10 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

Also keep in mind that in most EU countries you will need to maintain an address (owned or official rental contract). The Police usually come to the address to check that you really live there, so you won't be able to apply for a residence permit and then depart for another country.

Now I never heard of Police coming to your apartment to check if you really live there. They really do that? I guess if are sharing an apartment, your roommate can just say you're not home or will be back at another time. Anyone have experiences with this? Is it routine in every country?

Also, even if I can't reside in schengen countries outside of my resident country, how would they know if I had been doing that? I know that on international train routes they check passport stamp dates, but with a residency permit, there are no stamps, at least I have not heard so.

[DaveR]

(01-09-2015 06:02 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

Now I never heard of Police coming to your apartment to check if you really live there. They really do that? I guess if are sharing an apartment, your roommate can just say you're not home or will be back at another time. Anyone have experiences with this? Is it routine in every country?

It's standard procedure all over the Schengen zone. In some countries (Italy) they just ask you or your neighbours if someone by your name lives there. In others (Slovakia) they check passports, ask what you're doing in Slovakia and cross-check a few of the details from your application form.

(01-09-2015 06:02 PM)dontuan Wrote:  

Also, even if I can't reside in schengen countries outside of my resident country, how would they know if I had been doing that? I know that on international train routes they check passport stamp dates, but with a residency permit, there are no stamps, at least I have not heard so.

Most international travel within Europe is logged centrally in the Schengen Information System. At this stage I think it's primarily used by police forces to track down suspects, but the law doesn't restrict the use of that data, so its use could be expanded in the future. If you travel by car they won't know where you've been, although number plates are recorded automatically at the borders of some countries (Italy) for tax purposes. Train tickets can often be purchased at the station without providing a passport, so that may be another way to avoid being tracked.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me that ATM withdrawal data was kept for terrorism tracking purposes either.

[browser]

Nice thread, Dontuan. Is there anyone here who has utilized any of these strategies? And do these types of residency count in gaining permanent national citizenship?

[Chauncey]

(01-09-2015 03:47 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 03:42 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 03:35 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 10:10 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

If you are American, you will have to pay taxes regardless of where you live, and whatever you pay in Europe can be credited against your US tax bill due to double tax avoidance treaties.

I had heard that you don't have to pay US taxes unless your income is over a certain threshold. Or am I wrong?

Personal income under 92k (approximate) is tax free if you stay out of the US for 330 days.

It's called Foreign Earned Income Exclusion if you want to look it up.

But the self-employment tax would still have to be paid for freelance work.

Does this rule apply to income generated in the US (insurance residuals/rental income) if you are abroad?

To clarify... If I am living abroad but have US based income could I get out of income taxes if under 97k (other than self employment tax)? Would I have to pay income taxes in a foreign country on US based renewal/investment income?

[DaveR]

(06-27-2015 05:05 PM)Chauncey Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 03:47 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 03:42 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 03:35 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 10:10 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

If you are American, you will have to pay taxes regardless of where you live, and whatever you pay in Europe can be credited against your US tax bill due to double tax avoidance treaties.

I had heard that you don't have to pay US taxes unless your income is over a certain threshold. Or am I wrong?

Personal income under 92k (approximate) is tax free if you stay out of the US for 330 days.

It's called Foreign Earned Income Exclusion if you want to look it up.

But the self-employment tax would still have to be paid for freelance work.

Does this rule apply to income generated in the US (insurance residuals/rental income) if you are abroad?

To clarify... If I am living abroad but have US based income could I get out of income taxes if under 97k (other than self employment tax)? Would I have to pay income taxes in a foreign country on US based renewal/investment income?

The FEIE (foreign earned income exclusion) only applies to income sourced/earned outside the US.

So in the US you would have to pay both the relevant federal taxes and also state tax on the rental income (in the state where the real estate is located).

You would then calculate the income tax due in the other country. However, because the US has tax treaties with most countries, any tax paid in the US can be credited against your foreign tax bill. So you would only pay tax in the second country if its tax rate was higher than that of the US.

[worldwidetraveler]

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