[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I don't know, I still don't feel like supporting RSD in this. The only thing they have going in their favor is the landslide argument. Everything else is going against them: Here is why:

1) We the cultured and socially adjusted game sites will always be getting bad rap just on our own, simply because SJWs hate the mere idea of a man improving himself. That's just how it is. You can be supremely polite and not get hate, you'll still get hate. The fact that RSD exists or doesn't exist is not going to make RVF any more hated or beloved than it already is.

2) You're damn right I would be outraged if Heartiste was attacked, but that's because Heartiste is a reasonable individual who posts mostly reasonable stuff. With RSD, "mostly" would be a stretch. Plus, Heartiste doesn't actually go out onto the street and film himself physically handling chicks against their will. If he writes some racist stuff on the internet, that seems like far less of a faux-pas to me than actually going out and physically harassing women on the street while on camera.

I would also strongly disagree that RSD game is "same as RVF club game". I've gamed with actual RVF people in clubs and it didn't look the same to me at all.

I do not want to defend a despicable individual that doesn't improve men's lives at all simply because of the fact that we have the same enemies.

Anyways, I get the gist of the argument that SJW victory over RSD might come back to haunt us, but I just can't force myself to support this guy.

[Deluge]

We'll have to agree to disagree HCE.

On the subject of Julien specifically, I can't go into too much detail but I met the guy once, he seemed like a very chill guy to hang out with, and I've mentioned in other threads he has the strongest game of any person I've ever met. That said, one of my closest friends from RVF has also met him and agrees with with me on both points (remember I'm talking about Anglo clubs, not daygame in Japan), but he also saw firsthand some of Julien's behaviour in the club that's relevant to this Tokyo video.

Julien has no boundaries at all. None, let that sink in for a second. Him running around the streets of Tokyo grabbing girls heads and pushing them down to his dick is not him acting zany for the camera, but him pushing the boundaries of what is already his normal behaviour. He treats the women he dates in ways virtually all of us would consider unethical, people like to accuse the pickup industry of emotionally manipulating women and with Julien it's actually true.

Julien doesn't actually enjoy sex, he gets off exclusively from drama, the drama IS the sex for him. And this isn't me hypothesizing, him and other RSD people have said this themselves. That's why does what he does, not to make crazy videos to get attention, not merely to push the boundaries of how to get laid, but because he genuinely enjoys it this behaviour in of itself. I think we've all read about studies that found that women find the Dark Triad traits (Narcissism, Machiavellianism and Psyco/Sociopathy) very attractive, and Julien is a classic example of what that actually means in practice when you strip away all the glorification from heartiste.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

But aren't you answering the conundrum yourself here? Isn't the potential damage from associating with a drama-driven guy with no boundaries at all far worse than the damage that SJWs could inflict on us?

Remember that SJWs will hate us even if we're moderate, but most normal people will hate us only if we act like Julien.

[turkishcandy]

I will support this RSD dudes like Julien the day they go to a place like Ukraine and get pussy. Until then, they are a joke. They are just a reaction to the Western dating market. All it takes to excite a Western girl or Asian girl is being able to talk fast and confident. That's what all these guys' games are based on. You have a truly ''top notch game'' when you are able to pull hot EE girls without paying. So stop saying Julien or other clowns ''have game''.

PS: Why do you think these guys go nowhere but North America and SEA?

[Deluge]

(11-04-2014 04:43 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

But aren't you answering the conundrum yourself here? Isn't the potential damage from associating with a drama-driven guy with no boundaries at all far worse than the damage that SJWs could inflict on us?

Remember that SJWs will hate us even if we're moderate, but most normal people will hate us only if we act like Julien.

You can say the same about of lot of things in the Manosphere, not to make a value judgement either way on these opinions but I reckon believing that Black people are innately less intelligent than other races or believing that women shouldn't have the right to vote for example are a lot worse things to be associated with in the eyes of the general public than an idiotic Youtube video that we can write off as a prank, and the former two ideas are held by a significant minority of our own community, as opposed to a parallel one like RSD.

@turkishcandy I don't know about the FSU specifically but I'm pretty sure RSD do a lot of bootcamps in Europe and not just Western Europe. AFAIK they don't run programs in SEA, and if they do nowhere near as much as they do in Europe. It's not like many dudes in Thailand will drop $3k for a weekend bootcamp.

[zombiejimmorrison]

(11-04-2014 03:45 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

^It was a hypothetical. The real threat is targeting income streams at the point of sale, i.e Amazon. Roosh is anti-fragile, but only as long as he can keep selling his books. Ordinarily these Change.org petitions Twitter activist bullshit doesn't work. Except this time it did. And what happens when they have one victory is suddenly all the SJW's start piling in. If no more hotels cave in the coming days then RSD is fine, but if more domino's fall it becomes a herd effect. We saw the same thing with GamerGate, all it took was 1 advertiser to pull their ads from Gawker Media because of the Twitter campaign to begin a stampede. If the SJW's can get pickup banned from the Hilton chain for example, they're not just going to stop there.

Besides amazon there are at least 20 other sites or more that sell e-books. We could even go direct and pay roosh for e-books. I see this as a case by case basis. There are hundreds of ways to set up an event and use other means/venues, it might cost more but people will pay for it. Gamergate is convoluted, I can't really see it being the same.

I don't see them banning "pick-up", you can still go outside and into the grocery store or coffee shop and talk to strangers, once that becomes illegal then we can become hysterical but even to pose such an Orwellian idea is insane, how would we let it get to that point. I'm neutral to RSD they're ballsy idiots. These viral pick-up events don't have a strong effect on society or laws, it just gets SJWs jimmies rustled.

[Thoroughbred]

It's hit mainstream news here:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-04/me...ar/5866276

[Deluge]

You're being intentionally obtuse, Amazon is just one example. Much like how we pressured major companies through to pull their ads from Gawker Media it's entirely possible a similar campaign against "rape guides" will see them pulled from eboom retailers, not just Amazon (which is the dominant one). Roosh sells directly too but trust me not being able to sell on Amazon has a huge impact on book sales.

And I thought banning daygame was an Orwellian idea too, but now you have a mass push to do the very same thing under the guise of banning catcalls and "street harrasment" that's gotten wide attention in the mainstream media. Are bans likely? No. But are they possible? Yes they are. Nobody ever expected the SJW's to get California's new rape laws passed because of the "campus rape epidemic" but now look at what's happened. And the more victories we give the SJW's the more likely a daygame or ebook ban is to come to pass. The witch hunt against GamerGate supporters, catcalls and RSD are different battles in the same war.

Edit:

(11-04-2014 05:50 AM)Ollave Wrote:  

It's hit mainstream news here:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-04/me...ar/5866276

There's a long article with some of his videos on the homepage of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, aka our newspapers of record.

[Cattle Rustler]

(11-04-2014 05:52 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

You're being intentionally obtuse, Amazon is just one example. Much like how we pressured major companies through to pull their ads from Gawker Media it's entirely possible a similar campaign against "rape guides" will see them pulled from eboom retailers, not just Amazon (which is the dominant one). Roosh sells directly too but trust me not being able to sell on Amazon has a huge impact on book sales.

And I thought banning daygame was an Orwellian idea too, but now you have a mass push to do the very same thing under the guise of banning catcalls and "street harrasment" that's gotten wide attention in the mainstream media. Are bans likely? No. But are they possible? Yes they are. Nobody ever expected the SJW's to get California's new rape laws passed because of the "campus rape epidemic" but now look at what's happened. And the more victories we give the SJW's the more likely a daygame or ebook ban is to come to pass. The witch hunt against GamerGate supporters, catcalls and RSD are different battles in the same war.

Edit:

(11-04-2014 05:50 AM)Ollave Wrote:  

It's hit mainstream news here:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-04/me...ar/5866276

There's a long article with some of his videos on the homepage of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, aka our newspapers of record.

Rape guides are the #1 selling thing on Amazon, just look at 50 Shades of Gray.

[the high]

Half those girls in that vid probably enjoyed that. And if they didn't the onus is on them to voice their disapproval.

Anyone who has payed attention to Julien knows he likes to make videos like this from time to time to incite people, and it looks like its worked beautifully this time. Though it could backfire, I doubt it it will. In a few months (more likely weeks) time people will have moved on to the next story to faux rage about.

It's also interesting to see so many guys on here who regularly decry SJWism suddenly side with the SJW's albeit in a round about way. I guess it all depends on the narrative. SJWism is SJWism.

[bojangles]

I dislike RSD (bar Tyler's writing) and I dislike Julien, even if my minimal commercial income from game was somehow in the long run affected by this I would not give a shit. RSD teach bad game and Vacancier's post on the previous page pretty much echos what I wanted to say on this.

[Libertas]

I pretty much agree with Eel.

We're going to be the bad guys in the eyes of the SJWs no matter what we do. With regards to this we shouldn't make the same mistake that the moderates of #GamerGate are making. The type of shit in that video is actually harassment and poisons everyone. I remember a Roosh post from a while back detailing the unhealthy mindset that RSD was instilling in men.

Our target audience are those guys that are disappointed with life and want to improve. RSD does them a disservice in one of two ways:

1. It sells some of those guys bullshit for thousands of dollars.
2. It discourages guys from starting in the first place, making them fall through the cracks and thus strengthening the SJW narrative.

This guy is a chode. We don't give approval to any of his actions.

[Duke Castile]

Gimmicky horseshit

[WanderingSoul]

I don't think I could be around this guy for more than five minutes before he caught an ass whoopin.

[lskdfjldsf]

I love the study & application of game, but these PUA's that hold seminars are just fags.

Call me a hater but it's the same as spending $40,000 on a degree when you could learn the same shit in a public library.

[Brian Shima]

Why did he even say you can do what you want if your a white male? Is he trying to get guys to fly out there and take his classes? Tool!

[WesternCancer]

Hate to say it but watching that video I actually cringed and thought "wow, just wow"

Skip to the 'infields'

You can see most of the girls actively resisting and recoiling. Fucking pathetic.

[CJ_W]

(11-04-2014 10:27 AM)Blick Mang Wrote:  

I love the study & application of game, but these PUA's that hold seminars are just fags.

Call me a hater but it's the same as spending $40,000 on a degree when you could learn the same shit in a public library.

If the whole "PUA" thing wasn't dead before, it sure is dead now, NO ONE is going to want to be seen as a "PUA" now.

Maybe this is a good thing, and people will finally start to learn good game.

[Bushido]

I don't know where to start. This guy is just further ruining it for foreigners in Japan. White guys already have a bad enough reputation as it is, RSD is further cockblocking us from getting quality women. I'm sick of these nerds heading to Japan thinking they can get easy pussy "because it's Asia". Fuck them.

A couple of points:

First of all, Japan is a low physical contact society. Any kind of kino with a stranger is quite unusual and can scare people away. Good advice for westerners is to tone things down at the beginning of an interaction and slowly escalate the touching as things develop. Bad advice is to pull girls you just met onto your crotch. I actually know the club he was in and the bouncers kick guys out for much less than that*.

In particular, kissing that shop attendant was particularly cruel and made me cringe. In Japan, the customer is infallible so staff have to put up with all kind of assholes. These girls working in service jobs take abuse from drunken salarymen on a regular basis and have to just grin and bare it. There is no such concept as back talk. If the girl reacts negatively and makes a scene she risks losing face in front of her coworkers. Losing face and calling in a manager would put her in a bad position and could even lead to her losing her job. Hence what actually happened: nothing. She just puts on the uncomfortable smile while trying to pull away from him. She takes it and hopes he will leave ASAP. Later on she would be telling her friends about the "scary foreigner" who kissed her for no reason. Embarrassing.

*Not to muddy the waters here, but grabbing girls as they walk past in clubs is still tolerated and works quite well. You often have to drag girls around with you just to keep other guys off them. However, in the last few years, clubs have started to crack down on "sexual harassment" so the days of caveman game in clubs working are numbered.

[Roosh]

Quote:

Here's a thought experiment, what would you do if the SJW's campaigned to get heartiste banned from the Internet?

This happened and we got the guy to fall back: http://www.returnofkings.com/25591/why-i...grees-with

RSD is a HYPER COMMERCIALIZED operation that exists to make Tyler and Papa very rich. They do not care about our culture war, SJW's, censorship, etc. They have never put one article or one tweet to support a member in our sphere being attacked. To think that we will suddenly aid their commercial enterprise that charges guys obscene amounts of money to learn mediocre game is laughable.

Deluge are you getting paid to defend them? It would be like me fighting back against attacks on Chick-fil-a restaurants by homosexual activists. Chick-fil-a and RSD have enough money to defend themselves since they are corporate operations. They also have their own followers.

RSD is no ally of mine. In fact, I think it's best for us to distance ourselves from RSD as much as possible. We don't use that type of aggressive groping game and so we should not defend it. I'll defend MRA's and MGTOW's before I defend RSD's painfully bad game teachings.

[turkishcandy]

(11-04-2014 11:15 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Deluge are you getting paid to defend them?

I would bet a good money that he at least attended one meeting and paid that ridiculous amount of money, as many guys here in RVF did and who are polluting the threads with pro-RSD ''Tyler has tight game'' bullshit, he is trying to convince himself that he didn't waste his money.

[Advent Persona]

This idiot had been causing waves on the Aljazeera news network, where I first saw the hotel seminar article appear.

http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201411032213-0024315

They are now focusing on shutting down their seminars elsewhere.

Quote:

The Como Melbourne hotel has cancelled (link is external) Julien Blanc's seminar. Petition and hashtag creator Jennifer Li (link is external) has now shifted the campaign toward cancelling other seminars (link is external) by Blanc's agency.

[Deluge]

(11-04-2014 11:15 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Deluge are you getting paid to defend them?

I have zero affiliation with RSD.

[Lemmo]

(11-04-2014 11:13 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

I don't know where to start. This guy is just further ruining it for foreigners in Japan. White guys already have a bad enough reputation as it is, RSD is further cockblocking us from getting quality women. I'm sick of these nerds heading to Japan thinking they can get easy pussy "because it's Asia". Fuck them.

A couple of points:

First of all, Japan is a low physical contact society. Any kind of kino with a stranger is quite unusual and can scare people away. Good advice for westerners is to tone things down at the beginning of an interaction and slowly escalate the touching as things develop. Bad advice is to pull girls you just met onto your crotch. I actually know the club he was in and the bouncers kick guys out for much less than that*.

In particular, kissing that shop attendant was particularly cruel and made me cringe. In Japan, the customer is infallible so staff have to put up with all kind of assholes. These girls working in service jobs take abuse from drunken salarymen on a regular basis and have to just grin and bare it. There is no such concept as back talk. If the girl reacts negatively and makes a scene she risks losing face in front of her coworkers. Losing face and calling in a manager would put her in a bad position and could even lead to her losing her job. Hence what actually happened: nothing. She just puts on the uncomfortable smile while trying to pull away from him. She takes it and hopes he will leave ASAP. Later on she would be telling her friends about the "scary foreigner" who kissed her for no reason. Embarrassing.

*Not to muddy the waters here, but grabbing girls as they walk past in clubs is still tolerated and works quite well. You often have to drag girls around with you just to keep other guys off them. However, in the last few years, clubs have started to crack down on "sexual harassment" so the days of caveman game in clubs working are numbered.

The attendant probably thought he was drunk or mentally ill. And this is what made his highlight reel - grabbing a shop attendant who is required to tolerate customers and getting her to cringe and cower into a protective ball. I'd expect a snakeoil salesman to at least stage manage a halfway positive response.

[WalterBlack]

(11-04-2014 11:13 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

I actually know the club he was in and the bouncers kick guys out for much less than that

It looked like GasPanic in Roppongi – am I right?

(11-04-2014 01:39 AM)Faust Wrote:  

"I’m romping through the streets (of Tokyo) just grabbing girls and it’s like (motions) head on dick (pfft) head on dick, yelling ‘PIKACHU’ with a Pikachu shirt on….Every foreigner who is white does this. When you see that one foreigner in the crowd in Tokyo and your eyes will lock and you know that he knows and he knows that and it’s this guilty look like you both fucked a hooker or something.”

^- But this shit? Wearing a pikachu shirt (Protip: Nobody is into Pikachu anymore. It's Youkai Watch all the way now.) and physically grabbing girls on the street? What the fuck? Who does that? Why would you do that? It's not going to get you anywhere. I have never heard of a foreigner physically grabbing girls he doesn't even know. I have never heard of any foreigners over the age of 10 wearing pikachu shirts either, for that matter. It's not funny, or ironic. It's just kind of dumb.

I saw a (non-white) foreign guy grab at least 5 Japanese women by the arm at Greenland Bar in Roppongi. What made it even more lame was that he didn’t even approach the women in their field of view, he would sneak up behind them and grab their arm. I mean, when the fuck does that ever work?! Predictably after he grabbed their arms, the women would get scared, look at him pissed off and then pull their arm away.

I asked the guy what he was doing and he told me he was trying to say hi. He told me his ex-wife was Japanese, he was from Bangladesh and that he’d been living in Japan for 8 years. I guess this dumb fuck never learned anything since he had been there.