[MidWest]

(10-21-2014 10:06 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  

Interesting 6 hour documentary about Hitler, many of the things not well known in the west about the nazis and the nature of western propaganda.

You cannot be serious!

Are you low-key defending Hitler?

It still doesn't change the fact that he murdered 6 million Jews, or are you one of those who believe it was a hoax?

I saw clips of this video and the director goes out of his way to make Hitler look good almost like if he was in some heroic struggle against Western Civilization. So we are now suppose to feel sorry for the SS guards who gassed millions of people on these camps or Hitler? The evil Americans and evil British rounded up the poor innocent SS guards and executed them unfairly in these camps. Really?

[Krusyos]

(10-21-2014 02:19 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 10:06 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  

Interesting 6 hour documentary about Hitler, many of the things not well known in the west about the nazis and the nature of western propaganda.

You cannot be serious!

Are you low-key defending Hitler?

It still doesn't change the fact that he murdered 6 million Jews, or are you one of those who believe it was a hoax?

I saw clips of this video and the director goes out of his way to make Hitler look good almost like if he was in some heroic struggle against Western Civilization. So we are now suppose to feel sorry for the SS guards who gassed millions of people on these camps or Hitler? The evil Americans and evil British rounded up the poor innocent SS guards and executed them unfairly in these camps. Really?

Oy vey

I don't believe the Nazis are innocent by any means, but you have to either 1) have failed elementary school arithmetic or 2) be willfully dishonest to believe that a total of 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis in death camps. Yes, the Nazis murdered many Jews and rounded even more into concentration camps. But 6 million is a gross exaggeration, even accounting indirectly caused deaths such as typhus and starvation (which you can blame the Allies for). You have to understand how the Nazis viewed the Jews. They were not killing them because they believed they were "undesirables," they were killing them because they were considered enemies of the state. Jewry had officially declared war on Germany in 1933.



This "declaration of war" was a reaction to the anti-semitic rhetoric of the Nazis, who said the Jews were trying to screw Germany pointing to Jewish over representation in banking, the media, and communism. Read Mein Kampf for fuck's sake if you want to know what Hitler believed, instead of listening to the Pawn Sta... I mean History Channel.

In summation, the Nazis were no more or less evil than any other regime in history. We just seem to have an exalted view of Jews in the West (might I say, thanks to their heavy handed influence in the media and education).

[TigerMandingo]

^ Like another person said on this thread, I don't give a fuck about Hitler. I'm indifferent about the nazis. People need to stop getting their panties all up in a bunch whenever the topic comes up. "But....but... HE WAS SO EVIL!!!" This is usually followed by an outpouring of alligator tears. Doug Stanhope made a crack about how the History Channel would be out of business if it wasn't for Hitler.

[Krusyos]

(10-21-2014 07:10 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

^ Like another person said on this thread, I don't give a fuck about Hitler. I'm indifferent about the nazis. People need to stop getting their panties all up in a bunch whenever the topic comes up. "But....but... HE WAS SO EVIL!!!" This is usually followed by an outpouring of alligator tears. Doug Stanhope made a crack about how the History Channel would be out of business if it wasn't for Hitler.

Precisely. I don't give a shit about the Nazis either way. Like every movement in history, they had their goods and their bads. I will not, however, tolerate nonfactual, untruthful lies about history that are perverting the West's very conception of patriotism, pride in Western Civilization, and cultural identity. Thanks to the lies perpetuated by "academia" and the media, expressing any kind of pride in Western Civilization or European heritage is taboo and close to illegal in many WESTERN nations. Not only is this a gross intrusion into the freedom of speech, it is actually destroying the "glue" which holds a nation together: cultural identity. If I were to make a twitter account with my real name, add my employer, and simply say "I believe that Europe has the greatest intellectual tradition in all the world," I could very well be fired and have my life destroyed. How sick is that? In a WESTERN country? How disgusting is it that PARIS, of all places, has neighborhoods governed by Sharia law? I thought France was the home of Charles Martel, who held back the advance of Islam! But, if you say anything against that, all someone has to do is pull the Nazi card and your life is ruined.

Before I'm accused of being a White Nationalist... this has NOTHING to do with race. A black dude can be as much a part of Western Civilization as the most Aryan-looking pure white motherfucker on the planet.

[Sourcecode]

(10-19-2014 07:45 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

(10-19-2014 08:03 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(10-18-2014 10:01 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

I first noticed this in the Czech Republic when talking about the gypsies, but for some reason it's really hot when a pretty girl is spouting off racist rhetoric. Guess it's the novelty when compared to American girls with their boilerplate SJW blathering.

Well, that's because the gypsies genuinely are some of the biggest assholes the world has ever seen. They think they are above the law.

I think it was just a bit of culture shock really. Czechs don't have the same hangups about racism that Americans do, so when a girl's going on about gypsies it seems like she's going against typical female groupthink speech.

literally everyone goes against the gypsies.it's not going against group think.

she might not have even really met a gypsy..she is saying the same thing everyone says.

I know some of the most liberal Europeans that still tell me.they have never met a decent gypsy

[Deluge]

(10-21-2014 08:22 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

Nazi ideology was based around a burning hatred of Communism, which then led to a burning hatred of Jews (seeing as the founders and great leaders of communism were for the most part, Jewish).

You are overly reductionist, the Nazi's blamed the Jews for a lot of things, Germany's defeat in World War I, Weimar economic troubles due to Jewish bankers and Communism. They were scapegoated for everything. Nazi ideology wasn't built around a burning hatred for Communism, but a a strain of radical German nationalism that predated the Russian Revolution (combined with a type of Socialism, hence the National Socialist German Workers' Party). Read up on the ideologies of Drag nach Osten and WW1 Chancellor Bethmann-Hollweg and to see what I mean.

(10-21-2014 08:22 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

I don't know where you get the idea that the poor Jews were persecuted in Soviet Russia... antisemitism was a crime punishable by death in the USSR. If any Jews were persecuted, it was for the practice of their religion rather than their race, just like Christians were persecuted. Anyway, I've gotten off on a tangent.

Antisemitism was rife in the Soviet Union from the Stalin era onwards, this is fact not opinion. Just do a quick Google search.

(10-21-2014 08:22 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

Considering my own Polish relatives like to go on about how the Nazis treated them better than the Soviets, I would also like to see all this supposed evidence of Nazis enslaving the Slavs? They say the Nazi soldiers acted like gentlemen while the Soviet soldiers were cruel pigs.

It was a stated policy of the Nazi's that once the war was over, they would ethnically cleanse the Slavs in order to create "living space" for German colonization and fulfill the Drag nach Osten. Look up Lebensraum and Generalplan Ost. The vast majority of Poles in particular were designated for extermination.

EDIT:
Lol, I read up to speed and you're denying the Holocaust, +1 for the ignore list. Writing this post was a waste of time...

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Quote:

But 6 million is a gross exaggeration, even accounting indirectly caused deaths such as typhus and starvation (which you can blame the Allies for).

Whoa.

If you take away my freedom and drag me off to a concentration camp for the supposed "safety of state", aren't you supposed to provide food and medical care for me? How is that the responsibility of someone else?

[Krusyos]

(10-22-2014 06:16 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:

But 6 million is a gross exaggeration, even accounting indirectly caused deaths such as typhus and starvation (which you can blame the Allies for).

Whoa.

If you take away my freedom and drag me off to a concentration camp for the supposed "safety of state", aren't you supposed to provide food and medical care for me? How is that the responsibility of someone else?

When the Allies are starving your captors to death, there isn't much food left for the prisoners.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(10-22-2014 06:58 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 06:16 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:

But 6 million is a gross exaggeration, even accounting indirectly caused deaths such as typhus and starvation (which you can blame the Allies for).

Whoa.

If you take away my freedom and drag me off to a concentration camp for the supposed "safety of state", aren't you supposed to provide food and medical care for me? How is that the responsibility of someone else?

When the Allies are starving your captors to death, there isn't much food left for the prisoners.

That still doesn't make it someone else's responsibility.

[Krusyos]

(10-22-2014 05:36 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 08:22 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

Nazi ideology was based around a burning hatred of Communism, which then led to a burning hatred of Jews (seeing as the founders and great leaders of communism were for the most part, Jewish).

You are overly reductionist, the Nazi's blamed the Jews for a lot of things, Germany's defeat in World War I, Weimar economic troubles due to Jewish bankers and Communism. They were scapegoated for everything. Nazi ideology wasn't built around a burning hatred for Communism, but a a strain of radical German nationalism that predated the Russian Revolution (combined with a type of Socialism, hence the National Socialist German Workers' Party). Read up on the ideologies of Drag nach Osten and WW1 Chancellor Bethmann-Hollweg and to see what I mean.

(10-21-2014 08:22 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

I don't know where you get the idea that the poor Jews were persecuted in Soviet Russia... antisemitism was a crime punishable by death in the USSR. If any Jews were persecuted, it was for the practice of their religion rather than their race, just like Christians were persecuted. Anyway, I've gotten off on a tangent.

Antisemitism was rife in the Soviet Union from the Stalin era onwards, this is fact not opinion. Just do a quick Google search.

(10-21-2014 08:22 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

Considering my own Polish relatives like to go on about how the Nazis treated them better than the Soviets, I would also like to see all this supposed evidence of Nazis enslaving the Slavs? They say the Nazi soldiers acted like gentlemen while the Soviet soldiers were cruel pigs.

It was a stated policy of the Nazi's that once the war was over, they would ethnically cleanse the Slavs in order to create "living space" for German colonization and fulfill the Drag nach Osten. Look up Lebensraum and Generalplan Ost. The vast majority of Poles in particular were designated for extermination.

EDIT:
Lol, I read up to speed and you're denying the Holocaust, +1 for the ignore list. Writing this post was a waste of time...

Out of curiosity, have you read Mein Kampf? Obviously, antisemitism existed all throughout Europe for hundreds of years. In Mein Kampf, however, Hitler carefully lines out why he dislikes Jews, and his reasoning is all based around Jewish over representation in the media, banking, and communism (which he believed backstabbed Germany in World War I). But I know, your own secondary and tertiary sources take precedence over what Hitler actually said.

I do believe that many Jews were murdered by the Germans, but the number was nowhere near 6 million. Apparently, this makes me a monster in your eyes. Whose the close-minded Nazi here?

Or maybe you just failed elementary school arithmetic. If this is the case, I'm willing to tutor you for free, just ask.

[TigerMandingo]

delete

[Deluge]

(10-22-2014 07:54 AM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 05:36 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

Antisemitism was rife in the Soviet Union from the Stalin era onwards, this is fact not opinion. Just do a quick Google search.

I've noticed that a lot of your responses on this forum are factual, but lack any abstract thought behind them. You're too dogmatic and your thinking rarely wanders outside the boundaries of established guidelines. You ran a Google search on "Anti-semitism in Russia", found some statistics to back up your claims, and then presented them. Ok, great. Have you ever lived in Russia? Have you read any other more nuanced articles/books on the topic?

A lot of WW2 history, as well as books covering the Soviet Union, are written by Jewish historians. You think there's a bias there somewhere? Food for thought.

So are you denying that the Soviet Union was anti-semitic, or just trying to pick a fight because I called out Holocaust denial? And for the record I've heard first hand stories about what it was like trying to make it as a Jew in Soviet era Odessa, but that's beside the point. Funnily enough the man is a multi-millionaire CEO of a well known company here now, Jewish conspiracy?

I'm out.

[Krusyos]

(10-22-2014 07:08 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 06:58 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 06:16 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:

But 6 million is a gross exaggeration, even accounting indirectly caused deaths such as typhus and starvation (which you can blame the Allies for).

Whoa.

If you take away my freedom and drag me off to a concentration camp for the supposed "safety of state", aren't you supposed to provide food and medical care for me? How is that the responsibility of someone else?

When the Allies are starving your captors to death, there isn't much food left for the prisoners.

That still doesn't make it someone else's responsibility.

I never said I agreed with the Nazis. I'm against totalitarianism. I'm against faulty representation of history.

[Krusyos]

(10-22-2014 08:00 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 07:54 AM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 05:36 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

Antisemitism was rife in the Soviet Union from the Stalin era onwards, this is fact not opinion. Just do a quick Google search.

I've noticed that a lot of your responses on this forum are factual, but lack any abstract thought behind them. You're too dogmatic and your thinking rarely wanders outside the boundaries of established guidelines. You ran a Google search on "Anti-semitism in Russia", found some statistics to back up your claims, and then presented them. Ok, great. Have you ever lived in Russia? Have you read any other more nuanced articles/books on the topic?

A lot of WW2 history, as well as books covering the Soviet Union, are written by Jewish historians. You think there's a bias there somewhere? Food for thought.

So are you denying that the Soviet Union was anti-semitic, or just trying to pick a fight because I called out Holocaust denial? And for the record I've heard first hand stories about what it was like trying to make it as a Jew in Soviet era Odessa, but that's beside the point. Funnily enough the man is a multi-millionaire CEO of a well known company here now, Jewish conspiracy?

I'm out.

I'll be honest and say I don't know enough about the Soviet Union Jew policy, but to my knowledge, antisemitism was a crime. It may be a simple issue of the government saying one thing and doing another. I will ask, was he a practicing or secular Jew?

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(10-22-2014 08:05 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 07:08 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 06:58 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 06:16 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:

But 6 million is a gross exaggeration, even accounting indirectly caused deaths such as typhus and starvation (which you can blame the Allies for).

Whoa.

If you take away my freedom and drag me off to a concentration camp for the supposed "safety of state", aren't you supposed to provide food and medical care for me? How is that the responsibility of someone else?

When the Allies are starving your captors to death, there isn't much food left for the prisoners.

That still doesn't make it someone else's responsibility.

I never said I agreed with the Nazis. I'm against totalitarianism. I'm against faulty representation of history.

Ok, so what's faulty with saying that Nazis bear responsibility for Jewish deaths due to starvation?

[Deluge]

(10-22-2014 08:07 AM)Krusyos Wrote:  

I will ask, was he a practicing or secular Jew?

Very secular, at least today. Didn't even give his children a Jewish education unlike even most secular Jews here do.

[tiggaling]

Krusyos,

I'm yet to read Mein Kampf, it is one of those books I've been meaning to read for a long time. A quick skim through it leads me to believe it is really worth reading.

We're supposed to believe Hitler was just an "evil" guy, but it was his nationalism and racism that really let him down to my mind.

It is also worth noting there is no documentary evidence suggesting Hitler knew anything about the presumed gassing of the jews. People like David Irving have copped a shit storm for saying this, but its true.

[Deluge]

(10-22-2014 08:25 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  

It is also worth noting there is no documentary evidence suggesting Hitler knew anything about the presumed gassing of the jews. People like David Irving have copped a shit storm for saying this, but its true.

This is a common misconception which I can't help but address. It is true there is no known document or order from Hitler instructing for the Jews to be gassed. However, Hitler gave a speech to Reichstag before WW2 even began that if war broke it would result in "the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe", here is a video and transcript of Hitler giving that speech. We know Hitler also ordered the Einsatzgruppen to act as a death squad against Jews in Eastern Europe. Putting all of that aside, even the Allies knew about the Holocaust (primary source, note it was published in 1942 on the front page) while the war was going on, so for Hitler to not know when anybody in the U.S/UK could read about it in the papers would be impossible.

[tiggaling]

I'm not suggesting that Hitler did not commit genocide against the Jews, with the Einsatzgruppen and also working a lot of Jews to death in concentration camps.

However, anyone who carefully looks into this is going to be very hard pressed to find solid evidence and/or eyewitness testimony regarding the systematic extermination of jews in gas chambers.

Of course the allies are going to make the enemy to look as bad as possible, but this newspaper report does not make it true.