Quote: (08-19-2014 02:17 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:
Quote: (08-19-2014 12:43 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:
If this is a huge issue for you, and you find that it is endemic throughout Asia, why not go to Europe and find women who share your basic morals to a degree?
Anyone can lie of course but if you think Asian morality about lying is just too different than western morality, western girls would seem to be what you want.
Yes, that's obviously an option.
I prefer Asian women, by far, but I'm not against moving beyond that phase at some point. This is just an issue that is often skipped over when guys mention that they'll probably marry an Asian girl, so I thought it would make for interesting discussion.
I know there are also men on the board happily married with Asian girls who wouldn't have it any other way, and I'm curious about their experiences and thoughts in this department, if any.
That's interesting you brought this up. I removed a whole chapter from my dating guide on dealing with this, because very few people used to ask me about this. So instead I just put a small piece in there about it. I figured if it came up later I would just help that person with understanding it. Chinese women, as well as many other Asian women, talk around subjects and questions alot. Like Dreambig said, deflection and indirection. A Mainland Chinese guy that read my guide last year wrote out a very detailed explanation about this and I will post it here. Please forgive his poor English. I will fix some of the grammar as well.
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In previous topic, some mentioned about a problem that annoyed you. You thought about the reason but couldn't see one. Well, actually it's pretty simple, the answer has been there all along. As you said in your topic : it's about saving "face", and chinese women major fear. Yes, that's it.
Let me break it this way :
1. "Save" face?
Yes, it is. But in your wife's case sir, it's a good way to save her "face". Why? You're absolutely right. Chinese women tends to give a roundabout, long-winding, story with details you don't even asked just to have the same answer as to-the-point answer to your question. Yes 90% of them do, my mother and my ex too, and westerners hate this kind of stuffs. They'd prefer a direct-to-the-point answer. BUT, chinese women don't think so. She gave you a long long roundabout way because..
*She Just Don't Want You To Have Any Bad/Negative Thought Of Her
You will probably think, why would you? She didn't do anything bad. Let me tell you this,
*Buy Clothes Without Telling/Ask Her Husband And Get Permission Is Enough To Make A Good Chinese Girl Feels Guilty
Think it's crazy? Well, politeness and family order is everything in china. Even when you want to eat alone, you must offer it your parents/husband/elder relatives first, like a soldier ask his officer permission to go. LOL.
So when things like your case happened in china, the husband will think of his wife as a bad woman that used their money to buy clothes (when all she said wants to buy some food) without his permission. Well, it's all about culture.
2. Major fear?
Yep, fear of the husband getting mad at her.
You should have seen many of those "Angry Husband"s already right?
Beating wife, drag her by her hair, pull her around barefoot, and all of those kinds. Those things probably,or usually happened because the husband feels not being well-respected by his wife (like not doing what he told her, questioning his whereabout last night and don't believe him, etc even the littlest and most ridiculous things you won't even imagine). That's the reason why..
*She Wants To Explain All The Situations First To The Tiniest Details To Avoid Misunderstanding That Will Get You Mad
And why would I get mad? No, I believe you won't. And majority of western guys won't too. Who's crazy enough just to get mad over few pieces of clothes for his beloved wife? And you would probably think "She don't believe me? She thinks I'm a brute?"
Duh, no! Absolutely not! The thing is,
*It's In Her Blood. That Woman In China Have Lower Status, The Environtment That She Grew Up Molded It That Way To Her Subconscious Mind And Will Keep For A Long Long Time Even If She's Not In China
It's psychological and really long to explain.
But it means that her brain will unconciously thinks like that married couple in china and as husband you'll beat her if something is wrong.
Sometimes even your most normal questions will be taken as an interogative one and become a source of guilty (think of it like you're being interogated by the polices, even though you've done nothing you will still think/feel a bit that you've done something.
Feeling guilty and because excessive worrying starts to think that you must have done something wrong), therefore it's a must to explains in detail because she's afraid. But strangely, this even happens with colleagues? Look at the story :
Me : where are you?
Mimi : ah, I my phone low batt. And Yaqi is stingy won't lend her phone
Me : yaqi is with you? Where are you?
Mimi : yes, she asks me "are you coming or not?". Where are you? I'm in yaqi's car
Me : And where is yaqi car?
Mimi : west side of campus, the red one
Took long enough just to try to ask "where are you?", longer than the time needed to arrive at the destination
Yes, these things happen. And mostly, you will walk with "rage" faces. But, think of this. When you look at it, from her point of view. She's just trying to explain her situations first. And when I arrived, she told me that she's sorry for not to answer the call because her battery low and need to charge first at yaqi's car. But I only call once?
Yes, she's feeling guilty because I might be calls her a couple of times. That's why she go aroundabout way of explaining first then answer. That's the way chinese women go
Please don't blame them
Thank you
When he told me this ~ a year ago, I was a confused at first, but what he said started making perfect sense the longer time passed while married to her. When we were engaged, I definitely did not understand all that round-about-talking and it really frustrated me.
My wife still does this. Just like this guy predicted. He said it best, even though she is no longer living in China, we will continue to do this. It's culturally and psychologically driven.
Some things that I have done to mitigate me getting frustrated over a few certain issues, is that I sit her down and spend an hour or two explaining the urgency for a straight answer with no saving face talk. I speak very sternly and stand over her while she is sitting down. There are a few things I must have a straight answer for with no bullshit for safety and financial reasons. Talking like that in the US with other people outside of me could get someone killed if time is of the essence. For emergency related matters, I had to get this point across to her that, Americans do not have time for that bullshit and will NOT be patient with her to talk around a subject. I may not be around and if she has a car accident for example, she must follow a list of things I gave her.
This may sound crazy but I have a protocol for her to follow on what to do in case of a:
1. Major Thunderstorm/Hurricane/Supercell (Tornado risk)
2. If she sees a spider do not attempt to kill it with your hand, take a photo and send it to me first, or come get me.
3. She sees a snake
4. If someone rings the doorbell
5. If she gets a call from someone about a death (mine or anyone else in my family)
6. If police come to the house
7. If she is approached by police
8. How to make sure she does not push or cut in line at stores and how to handle it if she does on accident.
9. If friends or family ask her a question
10. How to be polite "Westerner Style" if speaking with someone on the phone for a product or service request.
This may seem silly to you, but if I had left her alone to figure this stuff out, she might be dead right now or gotten into a fight. Chinese do crazy shit to save face, but it comes off as lying or hiding to non-Asian people. The difference is that the consequences of your answers in the US are totally different in China. That is the part they must learn. Furthermore, things that are deal breakers for you, relationship wise, must be addressed at the beginning of the relationship.
I have done all kinds of unorthodox stuff when dating Chinese women.
1. Show them pics of a hotter exgirlfriends I dumped because she lied to me.
2. Play reverse psychology by demanding that they do not cause ME to lose face. Or demand that they give you face. (As if I am a Chinese Man)
3. Physically and gently move their hands or body in a certain direction (a subtle show of force)
4. Tell them right off the bat that I do not give second chances to women that "cheat me". (Not just sexually cheat, They understand that as stealing, hiding, or lying when translated either way)
5. Discuss all of my other girlfriends with them. (Can backfire, gotta be careful doing it. It's advanced game and an artform)
6. Insist that they listen to their parents or constantly side with their parents. (Would chase an American girl away, but does the opposite to a Chinese girl)
All this works. Some waaay better than others. Another quick example is that Chinese people do not wear seatbelts in cars. My wife has a scar on her back from a car accident and was not wearing a seatbelt. Chinese people even disable the seatbelt killswitch in expensive luxury cars and pay money to do it. That's how fucking crazy they are.
In China I fought with my then girlfriend, now wife over wearing a seatbelt so much that she gave up and started doing it. Her parents later noticed that she was doing that and told her, "HA! He is teaching you good habits?! You best listen to him, he is right!" Good inlaws will help you keep her in line in ways, you will never be able to do. Reinforcement is a good play. I did not know that doing that was going to help me so much back then, but once I learned how to do it, I have been indirectly allowing my inlaws to keep her ass in check. I do not have to do this often, my wife is awesome, but on a very rare occasion they can be used very easily, all because I know the culture so well and just need to send a QQ message to them or trick her into asking them something a certain way.
Never be afraid to demand face from any Asian woman. Westerners struggle in ways that are unnecessary with Asian girls. If they giggle or laugh and say, "what do you know about that?" or "What do you mean?". Get straight with them. Say, "You heard me." "You are going to cause me to
lose face and I won't tolerate/like it." "I want you to do xxxxx, as soon as possible and
do not cheat me, or I will be very
dissapointed in you." If you have known her for 3 days or 3 years, it will work all the same. It will force her to decide quickly and will shock her to her core. Her pussy will get wetter than it has ever gotten before and she will tackle you the next night in the bed if you guys are already physical. This is Advanced Alpha Asian Guy Game. It is semi-heavy asshole game mixed with Chinese/Asian culture. It would work with Koreans and sometimes even Asian American girls. I have field tested that in the US and got mixed results. One Chinese chick brought me some ice cream and made me a dinner plate after messing with her like that the next time I saw her. When I offered to get my own plate, she told me "No, I will get it for you I want you to sit down." Two meetings prior to that she told me she would never give me her phone number.
What else can I say?