[Moma]

(08-15-2014 11:41 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

One issue might be that he thought you were gay. A lot of guys get real weird (in the U.S. too) if you are too friendly from their point of view. It's mainly because a lot of guys are beta chumps and have all sorts of pent up sexual angst. If you are too nice they automatically think you are a fag or something.

This. I was working out at the Venice Fitness some years ago which is not too far from Warden Station in Scarborough. I saw one guy on the bench and I went over and asked him for a spot. After the spot, I said that I was looking for working out partners and if we could coordinate going to the gym on the same day. His face took on a strange contortion and he said he already had a workout buddy.

I thought this was strange but when I played it back, I remembered there are a lot of secret homos in Ontario and that's their opening angle.

So it could be that.

[Nascimento]

I'm not going to comment on the nature of asking for a stranger guy's phone number, as I can see how thats normal and fine abroad (I've done it before to plan things with guys I recently met and went out with them and had good times). But in North America that isn't necessarily going to work, if that happened to me I'd definitely be skeptical in the same situation. The exception is if you are at a party and everyone there is friends of friends or at least in the same large social circle if it's a university thing, and that's ok.

One thing though with this North American culture is that it's becoming polarized. The guys who are naturally and have always been cool are now much more divided from everyone else, so there is no between. You have a land of some cool guys to chill with and a bunch of losers and people that are a waste of your time for different reasons, primarily for being so negative or lacking anything interesting about them. I don't necessarily just have 'player' friends even though my circle of close friends is smaller than it used to be but I also make sure these friends are cool to me in their own way. For example I have a few friends I like to play sports with, others I like to have drinks and play poker with, others I will shoot the shit about girls and our experiences and such. Very rarely does it all mix.

It's the same thing with girls. Sure there are a bunch of ugly, poor dressed, overweight girls out and about, but there are also tons of cute, fit, and cool personality girls around. It's just there is no in between. The reason most guys are so thirsty is because there are less attractive desireable girls to choose from, and most guys don't get any form of success because to stand a shot with those cool girls you have to be a 20% guy. And as we know getting to that 20% is easy, knowing what we do about self improvement. But most guys don't have it in them to at least get in decent shape, build some social skills and confidence, develop abundant mindsets, work on your mind and inner game..

Etc.

[Sebastian]

Are you a chinese who just moved to Western countries?

'so you don't want to get together'

This sounds really really gay to me. I am not american. I came from asian culture and half americanized I say.

I really can't imagine myself saying this to a guy I just met.

you seem frustrated because you said 'I am this and that so I am better than you and you don't want to hang with me WTF'

It just sounds like a guy getting mad over a lower value girl who wouldn't put it out aka Entitlement issue.

Just like she doesn't owe you a bj, he doesn't owe you anything.

I say meeting a guy friend is the same as meeting a girl.

He has to Vibe with you. Maybe he just didn't vibe with you or
you asked too soon and scared him away.
(Asians take it differently though since there are no gay culture. America is liberal when it comes to gay issues but when a normal guy tries to talk to other stranger guy, it's true that he will be likely be suspicious of his true motive. Is this country really Liberal then??? when you let gay guys marry each other but regular guys are trying to guess if he is hiding in closet?)

This is not related. But I also heard foreign guys talking about When American guys say, let's get coffee. it doesn't mean anything. (meaning they just say it and flake out) it was blonde Norther European guy though not some asian or other minorities that doesn't bring too much value.

[Tresdus]

I don't get all the comment saying this guy is a douchebag. OP asked him for his phone number after talking 5 words with him. I wouldn't give anyone my phone number if you came onto me like that.

Why not have a conversation like a normal human being and then after 1-2 minutes you can ask him for his number?

[RawGod]

OP is experiencing reverse culture shock. He's just not calibrated to Canadian behavior anymore. He probably came off a bit weird, but would have been fine in China.

[BadWolf]

Quote:

I don't get all the comment saying this guy is a douchebag. OP asked him for his phone number after talking 5 words with him. I wouldn't give anyone my phone number if you came onto me like that.

Why not have a conversation like a normal human being and then after 1-2 minutes you can ask him for his number?

That's game, I'm not coming on to him, we just had mutual interests that are pretty rare. It's like running across a red pill guy in a gender studies class, the odds are a million to one. Its not as if I walked up to him either, I was sort of walking by and noticed it. Guys are not supposed to respond to other men like bitchy ass women. When we need game to talk to OTHER men, that's a problem. This isn't how 'nerds' are supposed to respond to each other. If one of you were to find me out in public during my rants and I were to reply in the same fashion, I'm certain I would be called out publicly in the manosphere. Red Pill knowledge is generally a sign of intelligence as MTG is usually a sign of 'nerdiness/beta' and all of the nerd's I have ever known, actively seek each other out.

No man, I'm white, born and raised in this town.

The number of replies on this forum calling out this behavior as 'gay' is worrisome. Are you guys really that afraid of meeting new people? Why would this be considered 'gay' in the west and 'normal' in China? Networking and being open to meeting new people is an important skill world over, did men forget this somewhere along the line? When I would go hang out at the nightclubs here in Canada I used to be able to meet tons of people and loads of men and women would walk right up and talk to me.. I used to attend PUA real social dynamics meetings in Toronto a couple years back, I really feel as if the atmosphere has changed. Maybe because everything is so 'gay' focused in Ontario, if friendly can now be mistaken for 'gay' then the feminists have succeeded in isolating men from one another.

Again, I really feel as if Canadian men have dropped the ball... and let it roll away.

RawGod, you are probably right.. on the subway in GZ I meet about 3 new people each day... here it feels completely UN-natural to approach or talk to people. My uncles, aunts and cousins gave me a 'sideways glare' when I mentioned that my marriage was had for under 10 bucks. Not really used to being around white knights, thought that bs had died out 10 years ago.

I would not blame Roosh for hating TO if the smaller town people have become so ultra weird and PC. I was in Sudbury a couple days ago and the young women I saw walking around had skrillex hair cuts, tats and were generally pretty nasty. I know I'm not alone here, I was having dinner with my parents and aunts/uncles/cousins at a German restaurant in Sudbury the other day when I guess I spoke too loudly and said "Ya know, people here are unfriendly as shit and women here are ballsy and rude." Guy at another table turns around, looks at me and then continues his conversation at his table by saying something to the effect of: "Did you hear that guy? Yeah women ARE ballsy and rude"... then I guess some sort of discussion started at their table resulting in a bit of laughing and this plain-jane type broad getting up and walking off.

Now in China, had this happened, I would've went over to introduce myself and give him a high five. I guess here in Canada that would be perceived as gay? Eh, to me this is a missed opportunity to meet a new friend.

I'm sort of curious what kind of Canadian guys frequent the forum now? Sounds like maybe you guys are sort of introverted, not that its a bad thing, just being friendly and open has always been a natural behaviour for me in both Canada and abroad. I'd never have considered a dude walking up to me as 'gay'... infact the only time we use the word gay would be in reference to something crappy happening. Mostly gays never even crossed our mind... again maybe cause Ontario's premier is a butch dyke and she's pushing for gay reforms, that everyone is so concerned with male friendliness.

[Sebastian]

I didnt have time and desire to read your last post.

Basically you got shot down by a guy and it crushed your self esteem.
Thats why you care about this much.

Theres a culture difference. If you prefer chinese one, you should live there.
(If i bitch about why this is like that in US, americans will give me the same look 'hey go back to your country')
Thats the way it is. Accept it or move

[rudebwoy]

I have got an idea, how about you game girls and ask for their numbers?

It is a "game" I like to play, it even works in Canada.

[ManAbout]

(08-16-2014 09:28 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  

The number of replies on this forum calling out this behavior as 'gay' is worrisome. Are you guys really that afraid of meeting new people? Why would this be considered 'gay' in the west and 'normal' in China? Networking and being open to meeting new people is an important skill world over, did men forget this somewhere along the line?

Again, I really feel as if Canadian men have dropped the ball... and let it roll away.

What you did is not called "networking". It's called acting like a creepy gay dude.

I don't know what "magic" is and I really don't want to know. But, if I was in a sports store and was looking at a tennis racket or golf clubs and some guy came up to me and said "Do you play tennis? I play tennis as well, why don't you give me your number", I would have told him to get lost.

On the other hand, if the guy had discussed different types of rackets, maybe the clubs we played and had actually given me some indication that he played tennis, and then asked for my number and said, "hey, we should get together for a game sometime.", then yes, I would have given the guy my number.

And just because one guy did not give you his number because you approached him randomly at a mall, it does not mean that "Canadian men have dropped the ball". What a ridiculous conclusion to reach from one encounter.

If not giving my number to a likely homo who randomly accosts me in the mall and asks for my number after 10 seconds means that I have dropped the ball, then I am happy to drop it.

[BadWolf]

Post deleted on advice from respected forum members.

Nothing more to add.

[Deluge]

You can't just ask for someone's phone number in your second sentence in a conversation and expect that to end well. All he said was "Yeah I'm just looking though", you couldn't even tell at that stage if he was interested in talking to you, and you expect him to give you his phone number? No offence but that seems super socially unaware, making a thread to complain about this one incident even more so. If this was coming from a new member I would've thought this was a troll thread.

[BadWolf]

Well considering I've met 100's of people this way, I would think it would be a American cultural problem. Anyway, thank you for those responding about the creepy and gay behavior, I will make a mental note about North American insecurities for next time. I have no interest in meeting women, I am happily married.

I have nothing positive left to say on this matter.

[TravelerKai]

Insinuating that Badwolf is gay is uncalled for. If anything it just goes to show how much lost innocence Canadians appear to have lost over the past years. Anyone that does not play Magic the Gathering, Pokemon, or anything like this would not understand either. After college in corporate, I have been begged by a few guys that play this stuff to pick the game back up just so they can have more guys to play with. Not many people still play this stuff. Serious players almost never turn down an offer to play. I politely decline every time, but I do not shit on them because I can appreciate the offer.

Charging him up over an approach to another male is lame. You guys are comparing this like an approach on a woman. If you approach American women or Canadian women that are bitches with bitch shields, I can see why you would call him gay or the like for that approach. People used to not be this hard on each other and now it is dog eat dog all day long. No wonder smart people are trying to find a way out of the toxic west. If this is how we treat a fellow brother, we are no different from the women here.

I cold approach guys sometimes to discuss red pill if I see a beta that might be willing to listen. Sometimes it fails badly, sometimes it works very well and I will send them information in email as a follow up. Guys in the US are almost as tough to approach as are women. That said, real men at least give 5 mins and can appreciate comradarie and team building.

Maybe since he has been in China for 8 years, he missed out on the changes. Big deal, he can learn from it, but he does not deserve our scorn either.

[rekruler]

I think the issue a lot of us have with BadWolf's post is two-fold:

1) He walks up to a completely random dude and asks him for his phone number in literally the second sentence uttered. That shows a solid lack of social calibration. I don't care if you meet your long lost brother for the first time in your life, you're gonna have at least a few minutes chat before asking him to hang out.

2) He uses that episode to convince us how fucked up a whole country has become in the space of a few years. That is so wrong on purely the statistical level (n=1), but since it is in fact himself that was at fault during this n=1 encounter it makes it all the more peculiar.

The only reason I'm even writing this is because I've read a few of BadWolf's commentaries on life in China, and have found them to be pretty negative in tone, which does not square with what I and my friends have experienced in China. Now I see that Canada is not that great either...

[whiteness]

[quote='BadWolf' pid='808027' dateline='1408242528']
[quote]

I would not blame Roosh for hating TO if the smaller town people have become so ultra weird and PC. I was in Sudbury a couple days ago and the young women I saw walking around had skrillex hair cuts, tats and were generally pretty nasty. I know I'm not alone here, I was having dinner with my parents and aunts/uncles/cousins at a German restaurant in Sudbury the other day when I guess I spoke too loudly and said "Ya know, people here are unfriendly as shit and women here are ballsy and rude." Guy at another table turns around, looks at me and then continues his conversation at his table by saying something to the effect of: "Did you hear that guy? Yeah women ARE ballsy and rude"... then I guess some sort of discussion started at their table resulting in a bit of laughing and this plain-jane type broad getting up and walking off.

[/quote]

I've lived in Sudbury my entire life and people like those you have described are shunned by everyone and are all english. There is a small minority of hipsters/beta's but they are all contained in the same area. Most people from Sudbury <30 are as redpill as they get due to the blue collar majority of the city and most french girls would put any city in Canada outside of Quebec to shame. PM me for pics if you don't believe me.

[BadWolf]

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading but I can already see the parallels between my interaction and the replies here. What a hostile country, It's no wonder American women act the way they do when men act as equally hostile and suspicious. I've lived a lot of places too, not just China but the recent return to Canada presents a starkly different tone.

I don't know how any of you act in public but I imagine you're not especially friendly people. I would have thought that guys who are supposed to have a high level of game would be more approachable but I am clearly mistaken.


Now as for my writeups on China, to that I say, go live there. You are either a tourist or part of the upper class to say something as plainly ignorant.

http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/videos/ta...tions.html

We didn't live in the upper class castles of zhujang newtown or drive around in the elitemobiles.. but this isn't a China thread and if you want to call me out about China experience, I suggest you open a new thread for that and I will be more than happy to respond.

The N isn't necessarily 1 its a 1 that should be open and friendly. Now that is the only example I used but it is not the only one I've experienced just the most recent. I can definitely see why women are out of control in America if everyone is always on guard. What are you all so afraid of and where does this attitude come from?

As far as I'm concerned, this has been perfectly acceptable in Brazil, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Peru and even China(with other expats). Just goes to show you how far gone our country is... no wonder so many guys have approach anxiety and need 'coaches' and wings to help them meet other people. When I have to start worrying about my level of game or technique when addressing a man, you know we've got problems.

[Parlay44]

Ok this thread has gone completely out of hand. One lonely loser kid reacts negatively and now everyone is ready to bail out on their country

[rudebwoy]

So one guy doesn't give you his number and that makes all of Canada a unfriendly place. Lol

I have been living here for over 25 years and yes some things annoy me about the place, but the people tend to be friendly to a degree and more importantly the country is safe.

I don't have to worry about a cop shooting me for my skin colour.

[Big Nilla]

I think reading this thread before I went to bed last night caused me to have a dream of a gay guy hitting on me. Not even joking.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Guys,
It's really uncalled for to call BW gay. I met him in GZ and he is everything but gay! Quiet the opposite! He's a very friendly guy and I've seen him in action and the guy is a straight smooth playa.

Yeah guys can be friendly in Canada but are nowhere near as friendly as elsewhere in the world. It is even more evident after a lengthy absence overseas that it smacks you in the head when you come back here. You may not notice it if all your travels are short ones where you barely get to learn about the culture or the language of the place and have very little interactions with the locals outside of the touristy areas. However, if you do venture out of the touristy areas, make an effort to learn about the culture and language, and start interacting with the locals, then you will see how massively more friendlier they are than guys in the PCfied NA. It's like night and day!

[Deluge]

Read this again, keeping in mind the guy being approached's POV.

(08-15-2014 09:47 AM)BadWolf Wrote:  

me: "You're a magic fan eh?"

him: "Yeah I'm just looking though"

me: "That's cool man I also play, why don't you give me your phone number and we'll get together

All it could've taken was a 5 minute chat about the card game and he might've given out his number and BadWolf never would've made this thread. That guys reaction has nothing to do with him being unfriendly, and everything to do with BadWolf being socially uncalibrated. The fact that he still doesn't realize this after having this pointed out to him multiple times confirms this. I don't buy the reverse culture shock excuse either. I've spent time in China and spoke passable Mandarin, the people are very friendly yes but even outside the major cities random dudes on the street or in a store are not going to give me their phone number to "get together" 10 seconds into a conversation.

[Nascimento]

BW I can kind of understand where you are coming from.

If I'm abroad and looking to make friends it really is rather easy.

I've never tried making new friends at home in Canada, as it just happens from time to time when you live there for years consistently. But I imagine if you have been some time away and getting back and looking to meet like minded guys it can be kind of a challenge as you are so used to the ease of developing friendships abroad.

There are still cool guys to meet out there, you just might have to meet them through other methods.

Feel free to give me a shout if you are still around in a couple weeks, I'm back in Toronto at the end of the month.

[TravelerKai]

(08-17-2014 12:16 PM)Deluge Wrote:  

Read this again, keeping in mind the guy being approached's POV.

(08-15-2014 09:47 AM)BadWolf Wrote:  

me: "You're a magic fan eh?"

him: "Yeah I'm just looking though"

me: "That's cool man I also play, why don't you give me your phone number and we'll get together

All it could've taken was a 5 minute chat about the card game and he might've given out his number and BadWolf never would've made this thread. That guys reaction has nothing to do with him being unfriendly, and everything to do with BadWolf being socially uncalibrated. The fact that he still doesn't realize this after having this pointed out to him multiple times confirms this. I don't buy the reverse culture shock excuse either. I've spent time in China and spoke passable Mandarin, the people are very friendly yes but even outside the major cities random dudes on the street or in a store are not going to give me their phone number to "get together" 10 seconds into a conversation.

Wrong again. You are intentionally removing a key element (a rare card game hobby/community) in order to demonstrate that badwolf is somehow socially inept, and that is disingenuous. For example I am in a car club and in that car club, in fact even outside that club it is common that we wave at each other when we see each other on the road. A few times I have approached a guy I do not know, in a parking garage or a store to talk about our cars, because he has the same thing I have as well. A few times I have been blown off completely and once a guy would not even say hello back and straight up walked away from me without a word. Most of the time, like 90% of the time any stranger with a similar car I talk to will talk for over 10 mins, sometimes 30mins and we will swap info or just agree to meet at the next car show or meet.

You cannot say that all those times I got blown off was because I am socially inept and that I used poor technique on those approaches. Call a spade a spade. Social dysfunction is just plain ol social dysfunction. Some people, especially Westerners are just fucking rude as hell with no manners. Stop giving Aspergers syndrome, bi-polar, passive agressive, BPD afflicted, anti-social Westerners a fucking pass for being so unfriendly.

Whenever I am not in the US, people give genuine smiles, honest answers, kind directions, and decent feedback. People even come up to me to have conversations and I have to quickly take off my own bitch shield when that happens. I am not in a ghetto and no one is going to rob me. Everyone in the West has serious trust issues.

When I land back in the US, I have to go back to "game face mode" and put some gruff in my voice so that no one will not mistake me for some bitch ass chump that they can run all over. Two weeks ago I almost got in some valet drivers ass for his rudeness at a hospital, He disrespected me from a long distance away and when I caught up to him he turned into a little bitch when he saw what I looked like up close.

Everyone smiles fake as fuck and when someone asks you how are you doing, they actually do not give a fuck about you, where you are going, and what you are doing. It was a rhetorical question in some absurd way to give them a good feeling that they are better than you, like you are a poor retard just trying to make it.

At least in China if someone asks you how you are doing, you know they fucking mean it. The fact that card hobby stores in China allow the buyers to even play cards inside on tables there means something as well. Any stores here allow that? I haven't seen one yet.

EDIT: I understand that he could have possibly asked him in a different way that would have possibly gone over better, but we are men. Men should not have to sweet talk another man into something harmless that both can benefit from. I do realize that men are more feminine these days though. Still doesn't make it right.

[ManAbout]

(08-17-2014 11:30 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Guys,
It's really uncalled for to call BW gay. I met him in GZ and he is everything but gay!

VP, you know as well as I do that Toronto is the most gay friendly city in N America. I am not saying that he is gay. But, his approach would immediately set off my gay radar. I would automatically assume he was a homo and tell him to get lost. He didn't even bother to utter more than a few words to the guy. Even those multi level marketers that approach me in the mall make more of an effort to strike up a conversation.

(08-17-2014 12:59 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Wrong again. You are intentionally removing a key element (a rare card game hobby/community) in order to demonstrate that badwolf is somehow socially inept, and that is disingenuous.

Not as disingenuous as creating an entire thread dedicated to "the unfriendly male" of an entire country, based on one solitary interaction with a nerd who is interested in some card game.

[TravelerKai]

(08-17-2014 01:15 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(08-17-2014 11:30 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Guys,
It's really uncalled for to call BW gay. I met him in GZ and he is everything but gay!

VP, you know as well as I do that Toronto is the most gay friendly city in N America. I am not saying that he is gay. But, his approach would immediately set off my gay radar. I would automatically assume he was a homo and tell him to get lost. He didn't even bother to utter more than a few words to the guy. Even those multi level marketers that approach me in the mall make more of an effort to strike up a conversation.

(08-17-2014 12:59 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Wrong again. You are intentionally removing a key element (a rare card game hobby/community) in order to demonstrate that badwolf is somehow socially inept, and that is disingenuous.

Not as disingenuous as creating an entire thread dedicated to "the unfriendly male" of an entire country, based on one solitary interaction with a nerd who is interested in some card game.

If you feel that is disingenuous, ask BW to explain why he feels that way about the whole country? Perhaps there are more stories he had to bolster that claim. Maybe he would relent from a feeling that he exaggerated. Instead of suggesting he was gay, you could have gotten a clarification is all I am saying.